"..........- and U.S. diesel fuel is not taxed as advantageously as it is in Europe,.........."
Tax per litre for ULSD is exactly same as for RUG here in U.K. and similar picture exists in other parts of EU also. Spain is an exception - for now. So, that's not a good reason, especially as Ford & GM already produce good small diesels to EU standards. :mad:
As they say; "There are lies, damned lies and Automakers excuses".
What are you talking about? I am ok with less than .03 cent per mile driven and 12k with a 250-300 mile range !!!
..."I have figured on another thread to be .1726 cents vs .057 cents per mile driven D2. So Volt is easily 3x more per mile driven than D2. "... Well if you wanted more precision why didnt you say so? .1726/.057=3.0280701 TIMES more !!
Or perhaps you need to get a crack u lator that works? Or perhaps you may have misplaced your instruction manual?
Interesting that GM ALREADY markets diesels in @ least the European market!! Why does it sound like they are trying to reinvent the wheel ??? :surprise:link title
Indeed GM is missing out on @ least half the (European) market by NOT offereing more diesels !???
Here is proof positive GM will have a hard time in the diesel market link title a 1.9 turbo diesel with 140 hp and 236 # ft of torque for a shade less than 37,000 US?? VW's 2.0 TDI with 140 hp and 236# ft is a shade over 20k ??
Whomever calculated the Volt to be 3x more expensive than diesel car to drive needs to go back to math school
All your moaning about the electric rates in the largest auto market will not drop them one penny per KWH. I think it is probably the reason Toyota shelved the plug-in hybrid idea. We will NEVER see 5 cent night or day rates. I would be happy with the US average 10 cents per KWH. It could also be the reason CA pulled the tax incentives from Tesla. They realize EVs are a dead end street.
It looks like I may just give up on a diesel SUV and guzzle the gas thanks to CARB and their ignorance. I am seriously thinking about the Golf TDI when it arrives for shopping and short trips. Plus those fun drives out in the back country that make diesel the choice for pleasure driving.
"GM product-development higher-ups are adamant that diesels are too costly for the U.S. market. They require complex and expensive exhaust aftertreatment to comply with the world's toughest diesel-emissions standards ("onboard chemical factories is one term repeatedly employed) - and U.S. diesel fuel is not taxed as advantageously as it is in Europe, where diesels have captured more than half of the region's light-vehicle market."
Translation: We don't WANT to compete - change the laws to favor us instead.
Look, if VW of all companies can manage to make it work, even in California..
I dunno, I bet if you looked deeper you'd find some California tax incentives (Tesla already got a potful of DOE loans earlier this year, not to mention the break Arnold gave them last year).
....probably the reason Toyota shelved the plug-in hybrid idea......
No they didn't, Christmas 2010, 100 mpg......
Now for you diesel fans out there, you have to ask yourself seriously if you are so devoted to diesel that you would rather have a 50 mpg oil-burner or a PHEV that uses half as much gas or less (depending on your daily driving pattern).
Right now, the biggest thing diesel has in its favor is it is being employed in vehicles that are MUCH more engaging to drive than the PHEVs we see coming down the line (well, that and diesels are here now, PHEVS are still 12-15 months out!). But it helps that diesels are employed in vehicles costing $10,000 less to buy, too.
It hurts that all the Big 6 have now said they are giving up on diesels for the U.S. market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am sure the (long suffering) landlord is more than grateful to finally get a tenant for the property.That is a VERY long time to NOT be getting (whatever) money for that HUGE amount of square feet. However, I don't know the full details, but the intended use is almost totally non compatible for the area. In a better time, the location would have been unthinkable. It is really more of a comment on the devastation done to American innovation..
Well no, just post the per mile driven costs and BE points and let's compare and talk turkey. If what they say is true (1000 miles range) we just need the kilowatt hours KWH needed to recharge for that range and the most likely cost per mile driven (electrical in this case) . I have already linked the CA electrical tariff source tables (1 of 88 source tables) The procedure to figure cost per mile driven is transparent if you ask me.
I have 15 year old gassers (which should have been diesels) that will hit at least 20 if not 25 years old before any steam motivates a model with a 1000 mile range plug in electric on the open market; with any numbers and volume equal to a very low 2% passenger diesel fleet (anti diesel policy) . As long as hybrids have been on the market and actively promoted (since 2003- or 6 MY's) it is barely 2.5% of the passenger vehicle fleet.
Plus what cost in KWH charges? It becomes a real fuzzy proposition. With 5 cent per KWH electric, the more you run on battery the better. With 35 cent per KWH electric diesel is much cheaper at least with the current price of D2.
It hurts that all the Big 6 have now said they are giving up on diesels for the U.S. market.
They have all made stupid decisions in the past and all 6 are losing money today. VW is making money and selling diesels as fast as they can produce them. Just tells me VW will be numero uno in the near future. Not sure who you include in the B6 for the US market. I believe Hyundai has passed Nissan now.
People that actually know the facts purchase a diesel.... Too bad most people look at the cost of fuel or MPG. (both of which are poor measurments by themselves)
They have all made stupid decisions in the past and all 6 are losing money today
No they aren't, Nissan and Honda are making money. And no, Hyundai is nowhere close to surpassing Nissan in sales.
I am LOLing at the responses, it's not like I didn't expect them! :-P
But seriously, I see nothing compelling on the diesel or hybrid sides to get me out of my 42 mpg car that runs on plain ol' regular unleaded. I can buy the 40 mpg version of this car today (known to the public as the Yaris, LOL) for $14,000 with nine airbags and ABS.
I'm not here to promote PHEVs, just give the other perspective. Will I be buying a PHEV next year? No way. Will I be buying a diesel in the foreseeable future? Most likely not. IMO nothing on the market today that is desirable gets more than mediocre fuel economy. And it doesn't look like that will change until fall 2010 at the earliest (when a new crop of small fun-to-drive cars will be released, some with "alt" powertrains available).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, I just used the current D2 prices and @50 mpg= .057 cents per mile driven. He clearly stated his .05 cents per mile driven was historical. I also have to use the more costly CA state... swill
..."But seriously, I see nothing compelling on the diesel or hybrid sides to get me out of my 42 mpg car that runs on plain ol' regular unleaded. I can buy the 40 mpg version of this car today (known to the public as the Yaris, LOL) for $14,000 with nine airbags and ABS. "...
Switching to ANYTHING (gas or diesel) given your particulars, ONLY makes sense with something that offers a minimum of 3x better mpg (so...126 mpg). This would be also true if you had a 50-60 mpg diesel Yaris (which they do not offer in these here US of A. Otherwise may you EXCEED 500,000 miles !! If that meets your needs ALL the best !!
I think you would look and feel good in a Golf TDI. Easy beat your current ride. My experience in the Yaris was not what I call a pleasant. The 4 door I drove while my Sequoia was being serviced was very spartan, noisy little car. A couple steps up the automotive ladder from a Yugo.
I don't think the Honda and Nissan earnings are in the same league as VW. I think you will see VW slowly eating away at the market share of their competition. One day you will wake up and both Toyota and GM will be wondering "where did we go wrong". The World outside of the US runs more and more on diesel and have shunned the hybrids. Where there is a choice diesel wins the contest. We are just slow learners in the USA.
Well, I asked my local dealer about the Golf TDI, he said availability will begin in November. But seriously, it will cost what, $22K at a minimum? So I can make 50 mpg instead of 42? The base Golf (the one that will get the TDI engine) has fairly lousy handling just like the Yaris does. But at least the Yaris is naturally agile because it is lightweight. The Golf is a ton and a half! In a compact car! I find the Yaris plenty pleasant by comparison.
I would hope that eventually there would be a TDI GTI available here (there is in Europe, as I understand it), which would have decent handling. But that would be what, $26K starting price?
No thanks, I stick by But seriously, I see nothing compelling on the diesel or hybrid sides to get me out of my 42 mpg car that runs on plain ol' regular unleaded
And BTW, I don't disagree about Toyota and GM, and I have probably bought my last car by either one. But sales volume and consequently spreading themselves too thin is the enemy, not the particular business practices of those two giants. And if VW gets too big for its britches like GM did and it appears Toyota is, it too will suffer and you will wonder what happened to your old friend..........
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You really should get out and test drive. I have a Civic and Jetta side by side and the VW quality is literally heads and shoulders above the Civic. I will go so far to say it is not even in the same ball park. But we knew that going in and after 90,000 miles it delivers the boring numbers we originally bought the car for. The resale value is remarkable. So for that reason we are very satified. What would we chose for a road trip,... either Jetta TDI !!!!!!!!!!!
Well sure, if I could have a car only for road trips, the Jetta TDI might be just the thing. I have driven the new Jetta and new Civic, and prefer the Civic. But I have not driven the TDI, only the Jetta 2.5, and predicted reliability and fuel economy are weighing heavily in my decision. And plenty of my driving is in the city. As is that of most car buyers.
Perhaps the Polo will finally get here next year, with the little diesel. Then it could be a whole new ball game.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I drive a 04 Dodge Ram with a Diesel. I get about 21-22 MPG. It gets better gas miledge than my wifes Honda.Odyssey Of couse it has over 200k miles on it also and never has been in for anything but routine service. My wifes Honda has gone through two transmissions in its first 20k miles. I don't think it will make 50k before it gets junked. Hey Chrysler, how about bringing over a Town and Country Diesel from europe?
Well for sure, even as I do like diesels, I have always advocated really defining what one needs, wants, etc. a particular car for. Most folks plainly buy WAY too much car, or the correct car for the wrong reasons or the wrong car for the right reasons.
The Yaris seems to be the (one) right vehicle for your needs/wants. I am really not too sure what dynamics the 2010 VW Polo TDI would change for you. For one, NO monthly payments are a HUGE motivating force !!!
You obviously do not get a REAL CA electrical/gas BILL !!!!! Nor did you even look at one of the 88 CA tariff charts that I posted. That really doesn't do much for credibility even at the opinion, discussion levels.
So sure, if CA/FED tax credits me for the life of the electric vehicles I would use at .03 cents per mile (in comparison to the .057 cents per mile for diesel) then sure, sign me up 10 years ago and send me the rebate !!
Being as how I am speaking from a "peel me a grape" state of mind here make that 1000 mile range electrical car 12-15k, I am on board !! So does this sound credible? :lemon:
If you live in CA 13 cents is only for the first 300 or so KWHs per month. I posted SDG&E rates. Most people are in the 34 cent range most of the month. No night rates available to residential customers. Adding an EV would be at the top rate. It will not take long until they decide to add a road tax.
The UP TO 40 miles is a nominal GM number. How many miles per charge at the speed limit of 70 MPH with the AC blasting? It is very easy to get the high mileage from the Jetta TDI while cruising at the speed limit with the AC on. Until we get some independent reviews we are at the mercy of Government Motors with a known history of exaggerating the virtues of their future vehicles.
Until then we have a known single power source vehicle capable of 50+ MPG in the VW TDIs.
You have the advantage of cheap coal electricity in AZ until Cap n Trade kicks in and levels the playing field.
San Diego has the highest per capita solar in the country. That is a two edged sword. When you are pushing the solar back into the system it cuts revenue for the utility. They still have the delivery network to maintain. Makes sense they would charge more per KWH to absorb the lost revenue from individual solar systems. Simply a transfer of wealth from the masses to the wealthy that can afford Solar.
To state the obvious, right now the Volt is doing no one on the open market any good (or bad).
..."No car is perfect for every purpose and every person.
Not even a Jetta TDI. "...
Indeed that is why they are what 540 (& plus?) models from too numerous to mention oems?
Essentially when you get the Prius/Jetta TDI down to its essences, do you want a so called city car that is adaptable to the road? Albeit, not such a good road car. Or do you want a great road car that is adaptable for city uses? Albeit stop and go taxi cab and pizza delivery is not the TDI's forte.
Combining stop/start technology with diesel powertrains would be a really profitable idea for VW, I think. Where was I just reading that stop/start diesels are expected next year in some model or other? Was it a VW model? I am totally blanking; it may actually have been a vehicle not for sale in the U.S.
With stop/start for the city and diesel mpg for the highway, TDIs would really kick butt then.
Gary: I never use enough electricity to get above the base rate; indeed, I have hundreds of kwh to spare, so it sounds from what I am reading here that I would have enough spare to power up a Volt or plug-in Prius for most of the month. Of course, my problem is that I have too many 100-mile days to make either one a very good solution for my fuel consumption woes. Which is why I am sticking with small-displacement gassers for the foreseeable future.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think VW is going to bring the Golf GTD to the states first and not just a regular Gold with a diesel.
You get the TDI looks , most of its handling but a slightly more powerful version of the TDI in the Jetta.
VW needs to sell the TDI as a premium type vehicle to recoup their costs so that is why the Jetta TDI has more standard equipment and why the GTD will most likely com here first.
..."With stop/start for the city and diesel mpg for the highway, TDIs would really kick butt then. "...
The Prius folks like to make a lot of noise about this "MAGICAL" option that is ONLY applicable to hybrids. In fact, BMW on their more fuel sipping diesel models (available you guessed it,... NOT in the US market) actually have incorporated and for a number of years. It works rather well !! So for example if you idle say 10% of your time/mileage (pick your measurement parameters) You can pick up very close to that in increased mpg or saved gals of fuel.
Now we are starting to get some choices with diesel. We won't get this one but the more subdued stable mate will be here before you know it.
I could live with this in my garage.
And a very glowing report from people that have driven one. It may even get me out of my Sequoia. I would rather have the A4 Quattro Allroad TDI.
Through a mix of highway, urban traffic and spirited back road running, our A3 TDI returned a very respectable 34 mpg. Those without access or desire to emulate the brisk pace we had on back roads will likely find their numbers much closer to 40 mpg in all-around driving. During last fall's Audi Mileage Marathon, the A3 TDIs averaged over 50 mpg crossing the country.
It is what they don't say but do, that says it all: put a new guy in charge who doesn't know anything about diesel. So when they (higher ups) ask their trusted advisor about diesel and get the obligatory NYET.... Would one reasonably expect any different? I am sure the new guy over time wants to (short term) keep his job. Long term: become an even higher ranking executive.So if he doesn't take the hint as to the already drawn longer term conclusion (diesel sux) ...... Everything that follows is a slam dunk.
On one level, the perception can truly for some be the "new reality".
The realities further might be parsed. So for example, VW has literally a stable of upper end SUPER cars. ..."VWoA is responsible for five marques: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, and Volkswagen cars.[1]"...link title Indeed it is adding Porsche to the list. link title
Not to get too far afield of the diesel topic, but Cadillac's use of the Chevrolet Corvette's engines and transmissions combination line ups, albeit DE-tuned are a no brainer platform adaptation (or power train options, I am not sure how to label it) ! Indeed GM would be ill advised, if they did not !!!
So more on topic,
For my .02 cents a Corvette option with:
Twin turbo 2T-DI (349 cubic in) aka small block ((i.e., Cummins) would be literally a world class fit !!! Can you just imagine a 18.5 gal, 45/50 mpg (900 miles range) high speed highway cruiser? 450 to 650 # ft of torque would easily match the current gasser offerings, the Tremec T6060 6 speed manual would be more than up to the massive torque, but the mpg would totally trump them!!!!
Researching the tragic accident with the Lexus ES350 that burst into flames on final impact, gives me more reason than ever to want a diesel vehicle rather than gasoline. Gasoline is much more volatile than diesel to start with. How much lower is the flash point with 10% ethanol added? You can tell by the extent CA goes in dispensing gasoline how much more dangerous it is for your health. Make mine diesel, thank you.
For every SUPER DUPER RARE accident you can find of a "car bursting into flames on impact" I can find a story of an 18-wheeler which crashed and burned.
ANY fossil fuel is dangerous in a wreck. They are all flammable.
When an 18 wheeler crashes and burns it is usually hauling gasoline. :P
No way diesel explodes like gasoline. You are way off on that assumption. The only reason we have gasoline powered cars is to make the Rockefeller's rich on a dangerous waste product. If the EPA were to scrutinize gasoline as much as they have lead it would have been outlawed. Money talks.
Then for sure Larsb is correct. However, on a practical level, it is safer to work with less flammable D2 diesel than more flammable RUG to PUG gasoline. Anyone who is trying to say RUG to PUG is not more dangerous than D2 is fooling themselves. I would really hate to around someone with that attiude while they were fueling.
diesel burns great once ignited. it's tough to ignite diesel without 10x atmospheric pressure or something much hotter than a lit match. Maybe the difference between explosive combustion and a really-quick but non-explosive combustion is not so important in a wreck - both can tend to be fatal. I wonder about the likely "delay" for diesel to ignite compared to gasoline - maybe it would provide extra time for occupants to escape or be-removed-safely from a wreck?
Comments
Whomever calculated the Volt to be 3x more expensive than diesel car to drive needs to go back to math school.
Tax per litre for ULSD is exactly same as for RUG here in U.K. and similar picture exists in other parts of EU also. Spain is an exception - for now. So, that's not a good reason, especially as Ford & GM already produce good small diesels to EU standards. :mad:
As they say; "There are lies, damned lies and Automakers excuses".
"But Nesbitt said he's still too new to have formed a definitive opinion about whether Cadillac should look at diesels in the U.S. market."
I guess he needs some more schooling.
..."I have figured on another thread to be .1726 cents vs .057 cents per mile driven D2. So Volt is easily 3x more per mile driven than D2. "... Well if you wanted more precision why didnt you say so? .1726/.057=3.0280701 TIMES more !!
Or perhaps you need to get a crack u lator that works? Or perhaps you may have misplaced your instruction manual?
Indeed GM is missing out on @ least half the (European) market by NOT offereing more diesels !???
Here is proof positive GM will have a hard time in the diesel market link title a 1.9 turbo diesel with 140 hp and 236 # ft of torque for a shade less than 37,000 US?? VW's 2.0 TDI with 140 hp and 236# ft is a shade over 20k ??
All your moaning about the electric rates in the largest auto market will not drop them one penny per KWH. I think it is probably the reason Toyota shelved the plug-in hybrid idea. We will NEVER see 5 cent night or day rates. I would be happy with the US average 10 cents per KWH. It could also be the reason CA pulled the tax incentives from Tesla. They realize EVs are a dead end street.
It looks like I may just give up on a diesel SUV and guzzle the gas thanks to CARB and their ignorance. I am seriously thinking about the Golf TDI when it arrives for shopping and short trips. Plus those fun drives out in the back country that make diesel the choice for pleasure driving.
Translation: We don't WANT to compete - change the laws to favor us instead.
Look, if VW of all companies can manage to make it work, even in California..
We had the answer to war and peace and peace in our time !!?? What a bunch of partay poopers !!
I dunno, I bet if you looked deeper you'd find some California tax incentives (Tesla already got a potful of DOE loans earlier this year, not to mention the break Arnold gave them last year).
Tesla Buidling Powertrain Assembly Facility in Palo Alto (Straightline)
No they didn't, Christmas 2010, 100 mpg......
Now for you diesel fans out there, you have to ask yourself seriously if you are so devoted to diesel that you would rather have a 50 mpg oil-burner or a PHEV that uses half as much gas or less (depending on your daily driving pattern).
Right now, the biggest thing diesel has in its favor is it is being employed in vehicles that are MUCH more engaging to drive than the PHEVs we see coming down the line (well, that and diesels are here now, PHEVS are still 12-15 months out!). But it helps that diesels are employed in vehicles costing $10,000 less to buy, too.
It hurts that all the Big 6 have now said they are giving up on diesels for the U.S. market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have 15 year old gassers (which should have been diesels) that will hit at least 20 if not 25 years old before any steam motivates a model with a 1000 mile range plug in electric on the open market; with any numbers and volume equal to a very low 2% passenger diesel fleet (anti diesel policy) . As long as hybrids have been on the market and actively promoted (since 2003- or 6 MY's) it is barely 2.5% of the passenger vehicle fleet.
Plus what cost in KWH charges? It becomes a real fuzzy proposition. With 5 cent per KWH electric, the more you run on battery the better. With 35 cent per KWH electric diesel is much cheaper at least with the current price of D2.
It hurts that all the Big 6 have now said they are giving up on diesels for the U.S. market.
They have all made stupid decisions in the past and all 6 are losing money today. VW is making money and selling diesels as fast as they can produce them. Just tells me VW will be numero uno in the near future. Not sure who you include in the B6 for the US market. I believe Hyundai has passed Nissan now.
My 2003 VW diesel OVERALL lifetime is 0.05 $/mile (I have a spreadsheet of every drop of fule ever pumped into it!!)
Edmunds has shown that it is also a known fact that Diesels pay back faster than Hybreds
People that actually know the facts purchase a diesel.... Too bad most people look at the cost of fuel or MPG. (both of which are poor measurments by themselves)
Not to mention, think about the wages they'll need to pay in order for their workers to be able to afford to live within commuting distance.
Tesla will have to buy a bunch of diesel buses to haul the workers back and forth.
Bpeebles, I'm assuming that's just the fuel, and not TCO? My minivan is running .16 a mile just for the gas (~21 mpg combined).
No they aren't, Nissan and Honda are making money. And no, Hyundai is nowhere close to surpassing Nissan in sales.
I am LOLing at the responses, it's not like I didn't expect them! :-P
But seriously, I see nothing compelling on the diesel or hybrid sides to get me out of my 42 mpg car that runs on plain ol' regular unleaded. I can buy the 40 mpg version of this car today (known to the public as the Yaris, LOL) for $14,000 with nine airbags and ABS.
I'm not here to promote PHEVs, just give the other perspective. Will I be buying a PHEV next year? No way. Will I be buying a diesel in the foreseeable future? Most likely not. IMO nothing on the market today that is desirable gets more than mediocre fuel economy. And it doesn't look like that will change until fall 2010 at the earliest (when a new crop of small fun-to-drive cars will be released, some with "alt" powertrains available).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Switching to ANYTHING (gas or diesel) given your particulars, ONLY makes sense with something that offers a minimum of 3x better mpg (so...126 mpg). This would be also true if you had a 50-60 mpg diesel Yaris (which they do not offer in these here US of A. Otherwise may you EXCEED 500,000 miles !! If that meets your needs ALL the best !!
I don't think the Honda and Nissan earnings are in the same league as VW. I think you will see VW slowly eating away at the market share of their competition. One day you will wake up and both Toyota and GM will be wondering "where did we go wrong". The World outside of the US runs more and more on diesel and have shunned the hybrids. Where there is a choice diesel wins the contest. We are just slow learners in the USA.
I would hope that eventually there would be a TDI GTI available here (there is in Europe, as I understand it), which would have decent handling. But that would be what, $26K starting price?
No thanks, I stick by But seriously, I see nothing compelling on the diesel or hybrid sides to get me out of my 42 mpg car that runs on plain ol' regular unleaded
And BTW, I don't disagree about Toyota and GM, and I have probably bought my last car by either one. But sales volume and consequently spreading themselves too thin is the enemy, not the particular business practices of those two giants. And if VW gets too big for its britches like GM did and it appears Toyota is, it too will suffer and you will wonder what happened to your old friend..........
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Perhaps the Polo will finally get here next year, with the little diesel. Then it could be a whole new ball game.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And updating my spreadsheet totals page, for the first time in a couple of years, it looks like my cost per mile is actually .12 a mile.
Amazing to think I've spent over $15,000 over the last decade just on gas for one vehicle.
8 x .35 = $2.80 cents to go 40 miles.
Jetta Tdi @ 50 MPG = about $2 to go 40 miles at $2.50 diesel prices
29 % cheaper.
That's cheaper for the Jetta TDI, but not "a lot" cheaper.
Certainly not 3x cheaper.
And the residential national average per KWH price is 11.86 cents.
At that rate, the Volt is FAR cheaper. .1186 x 8 = 95 cents to go 40 miles, versus $2 for the TDI. So less than half the cost of the TDI.
So the TDI is cheaper in the VERY FEW areas of the country which charge as high as 35 cents per KWH.
Here is a chart showing what states pay what on average:
California Residential Average is 15.23 cents
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Yaris seems to be the (one) right vehicle for your needs/wants. I am really not too sure what dynamics the 2010 VW Polo TDI would change for you. For one, NO monthly payments are a HUGE motivating force !!!
So sure, if CA/FED tax credits me for the life of the electric vehicles I would use at .03 cents per mile (in comparison to the .057 cents per mile for diesel) then sure, sign me up 10 years ago and send me the rebate !!
Being as how I am speaking from a "peel me a grape" state of mind here make that 1000 mile range electrical car 12-15k, I am on board !! So does this sound credible? :lemon:
I pay about 11 in AZ.
The UP TO 40 miles is a nominal GM number. How many miles per charge at the speed limit of 70 MPH with the AC blasting? It is very easy to get the high mileage from the Jetta TDI while cruising at the speed limit with the AC on. Until we get some independent reviews we are at the mercy of Government Motors with a known history of exaggerating the virtues of their future vehicles.
Until then we have a known single power source vehicle capable of 50+ MPG in the VW TDIs.
You have the advantage of cheap coal electricity in AZ until Cap n Trade kicks in and levels the playing field.
San Diego has the highest per capita solar in the country. That is a two edged sword. When you are pushing the solar back into the system it cuts revenue for the utility. They still have the delivery network to maintain. Makes sense they would charge more per KWH to absorb the lost revenue from individual solar systems. Simply a transfer of wealth from the masses to the wealthy that can afford Solar.
It's optimized for the city circuit, people who mostly stay on city streets.
Like me. And millions like me.
If you have a long, 70+ highway commute, then you don't need a Volt.
No car is perfect for every purpose and every person.
Not even a Jetta TDI.
And with my solar panel system getting installed sometime in the next 120 days, I'm insulated against that crap anyway.
You can be too.
..."No car is perfect for every purpose and every person.
Not even a Jetta TDI. "...
Indeed that is why they are what 540 (& plus?) models from too numerous to mention oems?
Essentially when you get the Prius/Jetta TDI down to its essences, do you want a so called city car that is adaptable to the road? Albeit, not such a good road car. Or do you want a great road car that is adaptable for city uses? Albeit stop and go taxi cab and pizza delivery is not the TDI's forte.
With stop/start for the city and diesel mpg for the highway, TDIs would really kick butt then.
Gary: I never use enough electricity to get above the base rate; indeed, I have hundreds of kwh to spare, so it sounds from what I am reading here that I would have enough spare to power up a Volt or plug-in Prius for most of the month. Of course, my problem is that I have too many 100-mile days to make either one a very good solution for my fuel consumption woes. Which is why I am sticking with small-displacement gassers for the foreseeable future.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You get the TDI looks , most of its handling but a slightly more powerful version of the TDI in the Jetta.
VW needs to sell the TDI as a premium type vehicle to recoup their costs so that is why the Jetta TDI has more standard equipment and why the GTD will most likely com here first.
Keeping diesel prices low is a key to expanding the diesel car market.
The Prius folks like to make a lot of noise about this "MAGICAL" option that is ONLY applicable to hybrids. In fact, BMW on their more fuel sipping diesel models (available you guessed it,... NOT in the US market) actually have incorporated and for a number of years. It works rather well !! So for example if you idle say 10% of your time/mileage (pick your measurement parameters) You can pick up very close to that in increased mpg or saved gals of fuel.
I could live with this in my garage.
And a very glowing report from people that have driven one. It may even get me out of my Sequoia. I would rather have the A4 Quattro Allroad TDI.
Through a mix of highway, urban traffic and spirited back road running, our A3 TDI returned a very respectable 34 mpg. Those without access or desire to emulate the brisk pace we had on back roads will likely find their numbers much closer to 40 mpg in all-around driving. During last fall's Audi Mileage Marathon, the A3 TDIs averaged over 50 mpg crossing the country.
Audi A3 TDI
It is what they don't say but do, that says it all: put a new guy in charge who doesn't know anything about diesel. So when they (higher ups) ask their trusted advisor about diesel and get the obligatory NYET.... Would one reasonably expect any different? I am sure the new guy over time wants to (short term) keep his job. Long term: become an even higher ranking executive.So if he doesn't take the hint as to the already drawn longer term conclusion (diesel sux) ...... Everything that follows is a slam dunk.
I think most Americans associate diesel with beater trucks.
The realities further might be parsed. So for example, VW has literally a stable of upper end SUPER cars. ..."VWoA is responsible for five marques: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, and Volkswagen cars.[1]"...link title Indeed it is adding Porsche to the list. link title
Not to get too far afield of the diesel topic, but Cadillac's use of the Chevrolet Corvette's engines and transmissions combination line ups, albeit DE-tuned are a no brainer platform adaptation (or power train options, I am not sure how to label it) ! Indeed GM would be ill advised, if they did not !!!
So more on topic,
For my .02 cents a Corvette option with:
Twin turbo 2T-DI (349 cubic in) aka small block ((i.e., Cummins) would be literally a world class fit !!! Can you just imagine a 18.5 gal, 45/50 mpg (900 miles range) high speed highway cruiser? 450 to 650 # ft of torque would easily match the current gasser offerings, the Tremec T6060 6 speed manual would be more than up to the massive torque, but the mpg would totally trump them!!!!
Peugot Plans Diesel Hybrid for Double Efficiency
For every SUPER DUPER RARE accident you can find of a "car bursting into flames on impact" I can find a story of an 18-wheeler which crashed and burned.
ANY fossil fuel is dangerous in a wreck. They are all flammable.
No way diesel explodes like gasoline. You are way off on that assumption. The only reason we have gasoline powered cars is to make the Rockefeller's rich on a dangerous waste product. If the EPA were to scrutinize gasoline as much as they have lead it would have been outlawed. Money talks.
it's tough to ignite diesel without 10x atmospheric pressure or something much hotter than a lit match.
Maybe the difference between explosive combustion and a really-quick but non-explosive combustion is not so important in a wreck - both can tend to be fatal.
I wonder about the likely "delay" for diesel to ignite compared to gasoline - maybe it would provide extra time for occupants to escape or be-removed-safely from a wreck?