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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Uhhh yeah just make it faster.

    Might help convince Rover to bring over Diesel SUVs too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I doubt that the Liberty CRD made a lot of non-diesel owners all that interested in getting a diesel. Or maybe I should say non-truck, non-VW owners?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah but the Liberty is garbage the only good thing about the Libery is a Diesel powered one.

    I have driven plenty of gas and one diesel liberty and the diesel makes that car livable but it is still a poor car. Plus that was still an old school loud diesel. Hopefully this one will be more modern and quiet.

    The Wrangler on the other hand is a very good vehicle to begin with.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It would depend on which engine they use. If they go with the 4 cylinder from Daimler it should be a good vehicle. It seems the diesel Liberty is less than hoped for in reliability. Though I have not followed that thread for a couple years. I think that is an Italian diesel by VM Motors. Though I think it was a good engine until they brought it to the USA with all the add-ons to satisfy the EPA.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    It will either be a Fiat or third party diesel... don't expect much from Daimler in the Chrysler product plans.

    kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "BMW says it will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in some of its U.S. cars, definitely in the 3 Series and likely in the 5 Series sedans as well."

    BMW's U.S. Engineering Boss Says 4-Cylinder Turbo-Diesel On the Way (Green Car Advisor)

    image
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Hopefully they are able to meet the requirements without that nasty Urea system in all the 6 cylinder diesels being sold here. That has been the biggest turn-off for me to buy a diesel SUV. That and none of them really turn me on looks wise. An X3 with a 2.0L diesel would be very tempting. The 2010 Audi A4 Allroad quattro 2.0L TDI is still on top of my list. I would settle for the Q5 with the same engine. Who knows what will hit our shores next. With the devaluation of the dollar we may not see much coming from the EU or Japan. The vehicles built here will have the edge. The X5 35D is built here. Not sure about the diesel engine.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    urea keeps this diesel customer out of the showroom, as does the absence of manual transmissions, except for VW :) and dodge/cummins pickup (?) .
    if i were to go for an automatic transmission,
    i'd probably prefer a pre-2007 Benz E diesel to a urea-ful 2007+ diesel and always have my eye out for nice used E diesel. a pal in Cali just snagged one. he is "the man"!

    another factor is ethanol. the more the ethanol scam increases and propagates, the more i will prefer diesel... thankfully the ethanol scammers haven't figured a way to sneak ethanol into diesel fuel too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The early E320 CDI is a good car to watch for. The 2005 & 06 were inline 6 cylinder if memory serves. I keep watching for an 07 or 08 ML or GL320 CDI pre blu-tec. I drove a 2007 GL 320 CDI with 12,000 miles that had all the options I wanted. I did not like the downshifting when you let off the throttle. Later I found out that is a program thing easily changed. Ethanol absolutely wastes fuel. It is just another Federal scam. A good reason to buy a diesel vehicle.
  • ourjeeplifeourjeeplife Member Posts: 44
    I'd buy a diesel in a heart beat.. trouble is.. the diesel gets almost identical mileage as a typical non diesel car or truck.. yet over in Europe.. the diesel rule.. So why can't we get these types of diesel in the US?.. thank you government for that one.. Until Our Government gets out of our business we will never see a "true" diesel here in the states. Makes me want to move elsewhere..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You could move to Europe. Most EU countries subsidize diesel through lower taxes.

    Diesel is more expensive in Britain because it's taxed at the same rate as gasoline. (Telegraph)
  • whitey9whitey9 Member Posts: 138
    I would NOT be buying a Diesel-engined car/SUV at this time. They are ALL "dirty" excepting the "BlueTec".
    As I am a "non-lottery winner", I cannot afford a "BlueTec".
    The price of Diesel fuel in prohibitively high in the DFW-area.
    The additional cost of the Diesel powertrain/"clean" Diesel system is prohibitively high.
    My Hybrid Mariner and Prius do just fine, as do my Focus, and Passat.
    I don't get less that 30 on any of them at highway speeds ( 60mph ).
    I have driven the newer Diesels, and they are much more responsive than older models.
    I once had a turbo-Diesel Mercedes-Benz ( circa 70s-80s ). It was not built to be an "economy car", but the fuel mileage was significantly better than any gas-powered vehicle it's size. The trunk was huge! The passenger interior volume very comfortable and practical. NOT flashy 'tho.
    I'll stick with what I have got.
  • whitey9whitey9 Member Posts: 138
    I have lived in Europe. Too cold and rainy, dark and gray for me. I threw away my window scaper and snow shovel when I moved to Texas in '76. NOT goin' back.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    "the diesel gets almost identical mileage as a typical non diesel car or truck"

    Not so. :surprise:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Jetta TDIs are not BlueTec and they are not dirty.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Sigh.... yet another mis-informed person regarding modern diesel power.

    At least you are AWARE that diesel-power exists.... I would bet most Americans cannot even say that.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Pardon my editorial license. :shades:

    Diesel Beetle in 2011 (Green Car Advisor)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I thought it was very odd that they stopped making BeetleTDIs after '06 and didn't pop in the new 2.0 diesel when the Jetta and Golf got it.

    I guess VW will never do hybrids, huh?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    According to Auto Motor and Sport, VW is planning to have three hybrids to market by 2010. The German automaker is slated to release hybrid version of the Touareg and the Rabbit, while the Jetta will receive the company’s first plug-in hybrid system. In addition to the hybrid drivetrains, the standard Rabbit will also feature fuel-saving stop/start technology.

    The news that the Rabbit will get a hybrid variant is a bit surprising as VW announced just a short time ago that it would not put a version of the diesel-powered Golf TDI Hybrid concept into production.

    In addition to the three new hybrid models, VW is also planning to launch a very limited run of all-electric cars based on the up! concept in 2010. Details remain scare on the new EV but it is said to be the basis for a new plug-in hybrid micro van that will likely launch in the U.S. sometime next decade.


    This was from 2008. Not sure if plans have changed. I doubt it would be profitable. And VW does not need hybrids like Ford, GM and Toyota. I think there is an all new Beetle that will get the 2.0L TDI. The old New Beetle is 12 years old and in need of updates.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Wow. Very nice car. Good room, amazing interior, pick-up on the diesel is insane. So quiet. Overall this car is great. Trying hard to be rational or at least wait for a model with xenons and not in black. This may be my 335i replacement.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have not even seen one yet. Drew was always out of them. I don't drive much past La Mesa unless it is very urgent anymore. I like it up in Alpine. I have to admit the Golf TDI has me intrigued as a runabout for all our normal driving. .
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    if VW actually sells this here, maybe they will make a diesel...would you buy one? ;-)

    VW is considering giving U.S. dealers the Amarok, a 2.0-liter compact pickup developed through VW's Commercial Vehicles division, said Stefan Jacoby, CEO of Volkswagen Group of America.

    In January, Volkswagen AG will begin global marketing for the Amarok, which it will build in Argentina and sell in South America and other markets around the world.


    http://www.autonews.com/article/20091214/RETAIL03/312149985/1128

    I wonder if that "2.0-liter" refers to VW's existing 2L diesel.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • This is so ridiculous. Whoever starts selling a 2.0 liter compact pickup here will clean up...they will have the market to themselves for the people who want something that hauls stuff, but don't need it to be combined with a daily long distance driver, luxury amenities, or fake balls.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I know. And the VW guy is quoted in the article as being so worried about not having an established dealer network in the "truck states" but really he needn't worry, this type of truck sells to people in large urban markets, not true "truck people".

    So why is it ridiculous? I was kinda hoping someone would eventually start selling a genuinely compact pick-up again. And VW should make some money from this. But I bet the 2.0 is the diesel, and that would be a good idea IMO.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I dunno, this is definitely truck country out here in Boise. My neighbor has a big honking Dodge diesel, and an old diesel VW pickup.

    And a new Jetta. I haven't heard it rattling in the morning like the other two rigs so I don't know if it's a diesel. :)

    Anyway, I bet they'd sell fine, at least here in town, even if they aren't big enough to pull all the horse and landscaping trailers around.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    New diesels don't rattle.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would trade my Ranger on one in a second. A gutless V6 against the torque of a 2.0L TDI would be a perfect small PU truck. That would be Hog Heaven for me. I also like the looks which has been a big minus for most of the vehicles on the road today.

    The German automaker said that the Amarok comes with a payload capacity of up to 1.15 tonnes and maximum towing limit of 2.8 tonnes.

    It also features a 2.52 m² cargo area that is claimed to have the largest dimensions in its class at 1,555 mm long and 1,620 mm wide, plus a best in class width between the wheelarches of 1,222 mm which, according to VW, means that for the first time on a mid-size pick-up, it is possible to fit Euro pallets sideways.

    Under the hood, there's a choice of two 2.0-liter TDI turbo diesel engines producing 163HP and 400Nm (295 lb-ft), and 122HP and 340Nm (251 lb-ft) of torque.


    And this would be just double the MPG of my Ranger gutless wonder.

    Volkswagen says that even in the 4x4 version, the 122HP TDI consumes just 7.6 lt per 100 km (31 mpg US) while the more powerful 163HP TDI model, 7.8lt/100km (30 mpg US). Combined with an 80-liter fuel tank, the pickup truck is capable of ranges in excess of 1,000 kilometres (620+ miles).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Amarok is tow rated at 6200 LBs. That is enough for most 2 horse trailers and all landscape trailers. My trailer is a common size for landscapers and it is scraping the fenders with 3500 lbs on board. And my poor little Ranger has the toughest time pulling it. I would be surprised if that Ford V6 can muster 200 ft lbs of torque. The VW TDI is at 295 ft lbs under 2000 RPM. The reason diesel is superior to anything burning gasoline.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That is enough for most 2 horse trailers and all landscape trailers

    Yeah, but folks around here want it to look big, mean and honking. :D

    There is one sort of similar looking Ridgeline in the neighborhood, but I think that guy pulls a wake boat. Honestly it reminds me more of an Avalanche (and that's good), but is it really big enough looking for NA cowboys?

    Kind of fun that Amarok means wolf in Inuit mythology. Time for a pic:

    image
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is a midsized PU truck like the Ridgeline, only a lot tougher built. The Honda is a Foo Foo truck with little to brag about.

    First Drive Review of the 2010 Volkswagen Amarok

    Volkswagen said it developed the Amarok with the almighty Toyota Hilux firmly in its sights. We’ll have to wait for a proper fully-loaded test drive on familiar roads to make sure, but the early test suggested it could give the Toyota quite a kick in the teeth.

    It is set to take the lead in terms of comfort, refinement, safety and the new engines bring a new level of economy to the class too.

    The Amarok might be European-designed, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s soft. Despite early predictions of a unibody chassis, like the Honda Ridgeline, it’s a conventional body-on-frame workhorse with MacPherson struts at the front and leaf springs at the rear.

    It will only be available as a five-seat crew cab when it goes on sale in early 2010, but a regular cab with a longer cargo box will follow about a year later.

    Our test trucks, which ran with light camouflage that included black tape and an upside down Mitsubishi badge in a token attempt to hide their identity, were fitted with some ballast in the back to aid the ride and simulate payload.

    In the hands of customers, the Amarok will be able to carry 2,300 pounds (1,150kg) in the back and tow a handy 5,600 pounds (2,800kg).

    The Amarok looks big to us Aussies, and certainly is longer and wider than the Hilux, but then again we don’t have pick ups like the F-Series and the Ram Down Under.

    It’s spacious inside, and is 64 inches wide, which is almost 5 inches more than the Hilux and is easily the widest in the class. There’s ample headroom and more than enough legroom in the back too. You could fit four big blokes in this thing comfortably without having to rub shoulders. Drivers wanting to use the Amarok after work will be happy to know three kids would have enough space in the second row to be comfortable for long distances.

    The more powerful TDI engines is rated at 163 hp and a stump-pulling 295 lbs.-ft. of torque at a low 1,500 rpm. It doesn’t seem right that such a small engine can be used to pull such a big ute, but it seemed to do just fine on our test.

    There is a nice surge of torque from 1,500 rpm through to 2,800 rpm, which makes the Amarok quite entertaining. It’s a smooth oil burner with linear power delivery. The two turbos work seamlessly together. Only once on the drive did it seem to lose its boost and pause before getting going again. It has ample urge with minimal weight in the back, but the real test will come when it’s towing a serious load.

    The engines promise class-leading fuel economy too and, thanks to a 21-gallon tank, VW says the Amarok can go 600 miles between fills.

    Lots more info
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    With this thing now upcoming, I wonder if MB would ever go into pickups, as they make virtually everything else from microcars to buses.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I cruised around Atascadero one weekend in a tricked out MB pickup back in the early 80s. As a passenger only though. :(

    So they did make them, for some markets back in the day. I think my friend's was circa 1950s, maybe 40s.

    You should be the one telling me this - model 170. His must have been custom though, or maybe just a badge job, since it looked nothing like this. His looked more like a typical Ford or Chevy of that era.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think those were made by aftermarket bodymakers. You are probably thinking of a Ponton pickup...fintails were also turned into pickups, usually for the Aussie and South African markets.

    I think MB could make something interesting...they have the Unimog, that's an impressive credential.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, that's closer. His steering wheel was on the "right" left side. I sure did a double take when I saw the logo. Don't remember his having the full blown grill but it was a long time ago.
  • jcp123jcp123 Member Posts: 3
    I'd love a diesel - it'd be one of the few modern cars I'd actually fork money over for.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Are you sure it was actually a MB and not a 54 Chevy with a new grille? :shades:

    Today I saw a very nice blue on silver W126 300SD - I wish something like that was still sold here today. Of course, in Europe, a modern version does exist.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Maybe, but someone switched out the steering wheel too. It was a hoot; I lost track of the guy after a few years and then he died so I never heard what happened to the rig.

    Since we're on Mercedes:

    Mercedes-Benz to Offer S-Class Model Fitted With Four-Cylinder Turbodiesel Engine (Green Car Advisor)

    "Weber said that downsizing the S-class diesel proved to be an engineering challenge, due to the NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) issues. Customers don't accept much NVH in Mercedes' top-of-the-line automobiles.

    Mercedes engineers met the challenge by changing engine mounts and adding body stiffness, Weber said."

    Translation = less rattling from the diesel? ;)

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There's already a nice 6cyl diesel offered in the S, I would be more than happy with one of those.

    On both the diesel cars I rented in Germany, I thought "WTH is this, a tractor?" when it was at a cold idle with the door open or window down (and one of the cars was a 7-series)...but the issues vanished when the car was in motion.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    2010 Chrysler 300C Diesel (Europe only)
    - 3.0L turbocharged 72° aluminum V6 diesel
    - 215 hp at 3800 rpm (redline 4500)
    - 375 lb-ft at 1600-2800 rpm (the Euro-issue 5.7 Hemi is 389)
    - urban cycle 10.8L/100KM (21.75 mpg US)
    - ex-urban cycle 6.6L/100KM (35.6 mpg US)
    - combined cycle 8.1L/100KM (29 mpg US)
    With the 18 gallon tank, that's a potential highway range of 630 miles.

    Show me another car in this class (premium mid-size/baby full-size) that can go coast-to-coast on 5 tanks. (Just to compare, the Fusion Hybrid gets 36 mpg highway, has only a 14 gallon tank for a range of 504, and has 4 inches less rear legroom.)

    And while I wouldn't buy one myself...
    2010 Chrysler Grand Voyager (European Dodge Grand Caravan)
    - 2.8L turbocharged I-4 diesel
    - 161 hp at 3800 rpm (redline 4300)
    - 266 lb-ft at 1600-3000 rpm
    - urban cycle 11.8L/100KM (20 mpg US)
    - ex-urban cycle 7.1L/100KM (33 mpg US)
    - combined cycle 8.8L/100KM (26.7 mpg US)
    With the 20 gallon tank, that's a potential highway range of 660 miles.

    Chrysler would have no trouble meeting the new CAFE rules if they simply brought these things here.

    kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I agree that these would sell like hotcakes in the USA (If properly marketed / advertized)

    HOWEVER: The stupid emmissions rules in the USA would not permit those vehicles on these shores.

    Incase you have not followed Diesel-power in the USA... the EPA has some kind of vandetta againset Diesel-power and has purposefully stacked the rules to make it nearly imposible for Diesel power to meet the rules. The EPA, has done this to discurage Diesel-power in the USA.

    For example - We waited YEARS to get the ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) fuel in this country (Just so USA diesel would match the quality of European fuel) and the very next year after ULSD arrived, the EPA changed the rules.

    To the dismay of the EPA - Some companies have managed to engineer a Diesel-engine that meets the new rules. The new VW Diesel engine is the MOST COMPLICATED ENGINE that VW has ever manufactured. I fear this complication will put it out-of-reach for most folks that expect the reliability of a Toyota without doing any preventive-maintenance. (Try finding the proper engine-oil for a new VW Diesel at any autoparts store in the country!)

    I am sooooo glad that I have the older VW TDI that averages over 750 miles per tank of fuel without all of the complicated emmissions equipment. The use of ULSD makes the emmissions virtually Sulpher-free.

    Science has PROVEN that CarbonDioxide is not even a greenhouse-gas... yet the Politics of calling it such is too lucritive for the EPA and the Tax-writers to embrace the truth of science.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I thought it was the particulates that was still the big issue.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think they got PM covered with the particulate trap in the last TDI version. It is NoX that is the issue. That's why the Urea crap idea in the bigger diesel engines. Though I would be happy with a 4 banger diesel in a vehicle I like.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Yes - I beleive you are correct, the urea-injection is intended to "burn off" the particulates which are trapped in the exhaust-filter.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I am not aware of NoX (oxides of nitrogen) being a big issue. The TDI engine has had EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirulation) for over 15 years to control NoX. Gasolie automibles have had EGR since 1973.

    Unfortunately. the high combustion-tempartures that are desired for economy are what cause Nitrogen to be burned too. This is what causes the NoX. It is a delicate balancing-act to maximise efficency AND not produce NoX.... all in an automible which is driven under many variable ambient tempartures and engine-loading.
  • gfr1gfr1 Member Posts: 55
    Your comment about the comparative range of the Ford Fusion is a little extreme - in its error. Where did you get the info about it having a 14 gallon fuel tank? That made the range capability in the trial that was run in Wash. DC a few months ago even more miraculous, didn't it? There has been some various capacities thrown out there, but none, that I've seen, was below 16.6. The standard Fusion, suposedly, has a 17.5 gal. tank and I don't see why the hybrid, in this case, would be different, but the consensus seems to be 17 gal. Whether that is a round-off, or not, I couldn't say. Also, the European cycle tests are quite different from the U.S., with the U.S. version being a good bit lower mpg values than the European version. GFR1
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Mercedes just paid a $6.8 million fine for not reaching the CAFE standards in 2008. While they call it "the cost of doing business in the U.S.", it seems they have an incentive to make more diesels available across their range.

    And maybe they ought to consider a less powerful and more fuel-thrifty diesel for the smaller models.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree wholeheartedly. I ran into a Canadian couple last year up in the mountains. They were driving a B200 CDI. They loved the little wagon and easily get 50 MPG on the road. For the very frugal the B180 CDI gets slightly better mileage. Not sure if they have even attempted to get them certified for our market.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'm not aware of a B class diesel being available in Canada, unless it was some kind of private import.

    The E200 CDi I drove in Germany which easily averaged nearly 45mpg with a lot of stop and go driving was something that might be interesting here.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You know I was so interested in the car that I did not ask where they got it. It was a cool little wagon just like this one only silver:

    image

    Probably the same engine as the E200 you rented. They just said they were from British Columbia.
This discussion has been closed.