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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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To be truly epically silly there is also the 7.0 V12 TDi option. Must be aimed at the Texan oil millionaire market, methinks. From there on I think you're probably looking at Peterbilt et al.
I still have to wonder if German built VWs are less problematic than Mexican built cars...maybe better parts subcontractors or something. Every Passat sedan and wagon, gas or diesel, that I see in local used car rags has a "W" VIN. Every Jetta sedan diesel or gas has a "3" VIN, but Jetta wagons seem to have a "W" VIN as well. With Golfs it seems to be random, but there aren't many of those for sale...I do notice newer cars tend to be "W", and all Beetles appear to be Mexican built. The cars are so enormously popular in Germany, built locally, that I can't imagine they have the same issues seen here.
I believe all the wagons both Jetta and Passat were German built. They are still highly sought after with the TDI engine. One of the best resale of any vehicle going.
It took me over 6 months listing my MB Cruiser on Craigslist before I sold it. I bought it in December 05 from a dealer in Colorado Springs that did not want to get stuck till Spring. So I got it for about $8k less than the local dealer would sell for. I tried to get most of my money back. Finally let the guy have it for $55k cash. I had a bit over $59k in it with airline tickets to Denver. I think at the time you advised me against taking a 2001 MB S600 in trade. It was plush but not really my style. I still have the cash and that car is only worth about $15k now.
I think the diesels they get in Germany are tuned differently than ours too. I saw tons of Jetta sportwagons in Germany, and more than once I would be cruising at around 120 and would get passed by a Passat diesel wagon. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah, an early V12 W220 would have been a bad idea. It wouldn't be worth so much now, and probably would have sucked down another 5K in maintenance and repairs. The 2003+ models are better, but V12 cars of all types kind of scare me. That's another car we should get in diesel form, 30+ mpg from a luxo-tank has some appeal.
That engine is loved in Germany, always regarded to be the best choice in the lineup for both C and E class.
The 2010 E class does not list a diesel. So maybe the E250 CDI is on its way.
I drove an E200 CDi when I was there...a little too loud and slow to fit the MBUSA brand image, but mixed mileage in the mid 40s was nothing to complain about for a car off that size and comfort.
I'm with you on the diesel PU or SUV. The Tiquan with the 2.0L TDI sold in the EU would be a top choice also. Toyota might want to think about bringing there very successful small diesel PU to fill in the gaps the next few months till they get their act together on this latest recall.
Now THERE'S a vacation!!!! :shades:
Then I watched this
with no email heads-up or anything. :mad:
Anyway...from the manual tranny thread as requested..
"#6217 of 6218 Re: Diesel with 5/6 speed manual [rdub7] by steve_ HOST
Jan 17, 2011 (11:04 pm)
Replying to: rdub7 (Jan 17, 2011 10:49 pm)
It's pretty common knowledge that diesels emit way more particulates than gasoline engines. (Science Daily). And yeah, heavy trucks are a big part of the problem - maybe you've heard about the San Diego port project.
We really should move this over to the diesel discussion I linked a few posts back."
____________
I don't necessarily 'buy' everything 'scientists' are selling. A prudent, forward thinking person should try to remember that they do have to justify their paycheck just like anyone else..
I'm sure they know how to cure cancer too, but that would be the end of support funds the very day they'd make that announcement...so for now and likely forever, the cure will be forever conveniently elusive.
But I do know (and it is even somewhat just common sense and the ability to reason) that far more work can be done on a gallon of diesel than a gallon of gasoline. You take those same amt of particulates you mention, gathered from a gas engine choking itself on raw gas practically because you just can't get enough gas into the engine to get the work done, and weigh them against the particulates from the diesel engine. NOW we are comparing on more even grd. If gas was such an efficient source of energy, locomotives would use it to power their generators instead of diesel.
GAs creates a LOT more waste in heat out the tail pipe. Again, more emissions. All these reports of emission pollution are skewed and do not tell the real tale.
You take a brand new gas engined large truck (and keep in mind they have never made a gas engine large enough to have it compete with a diesel in hill climbing) on a wet humid day, and it chokes itself on raw gas as it tries to burn as much energy as it can to get what limited torque it has to the grd. There is so much raw fuel involved you could smell the raw unburned gas at stop. And due to humidity and high temp levels, sometimes you could hardly get the gas job to carburate properly.
The efficiency of diesel combustion is so efficient, it literally takes longer for the engine to come up to temperature. Unlike gas, which expels a lot of its energy as heat out the exhaust.
Imagine the smog in Cali if all the big trucks were put back on gas. I'm sure your wife would be suffering asthma attacks worse than she does now.
But I digress. I am but such a minority voice in a world filled with ignorance.
However, it would seem it would seem the host implies that the one half of one percent of the diesel passenger cars (1.272 M) do more of the polluting than the 98% gasser RUG to PUG passenger cars 252.252 M (of 257.4M) !!
1.272 M diesel passenger cars pollute no more than 1.272 M Toyota Camry's. They even use LESS fuel, than even a Toyota Camry hybrid. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/
I cannot see me buying anything but diesel on my next vehicle purchase. Diesel rarely goes higher than premium gasoline, and in a large SUV it will nearly double the highway mileage and give 50% improvement in town.
I also do not buy the PM argument. Those studies were all done years ago, long before ULSD was mandated. It would be nice if we could get higher cetane rated diesel in the USA.
What I said over in the MT discussion, and what I don't see broken out in your link was "diesels emit way more particulates than gasoline engines". I thought I had a link handy but can't find it now (may be one back in this discussion).
Gary, the switchgrass or woodchip fuels would fix the corn problem.
Not really. All new stills will have to be built and we will have to pay off the existing corn stills and pay to dismantle that whole fiasco. At this time there is no proven cost effective biomass ethanol system. From my perspective alternative fuels and energy for the most part is a bust and ripoff of the tax payers. Both here and in the EU. I think I read recently that $100 oil will make diesel from coal viable. We have plenty of coal and the technology is old and proven.
PS
Where will the wood chips come from? We have shut down most of our logging industry and use what we do get for paper in our paperless society.
I think you guys must be gunning for me. Just went out to shovel the latest 2" of snow and some guy was plowing the alley with a Deere loader/scraper. The fumes about knocked me down.
Luckily, I had plenty of the white stuff to move around out front while the plow guy was finishing up out back.
Needless to say that is 333.33% TIMES higher. Since most ULSD is delivered @ the pump nominally @ 5-7 ppm sulfur, (H) HO can be up to 1000 times more sulfur ppm. (H) HO furnances are NOT required to have pollution devices !!! They also (can) burn up to 24/7 and for literally months @ a time. Passenger car diesels even using ULSD are strictly required to have pollution devices. The 2 latest technologies are EGR andthe DPF. (diesel particulate device)
A lot of the emission devices on a clean diesel today, are to ensure particulates created from stop and go driving, get burned. Once on highway, or even a sustained 25 mph or so and up, those are handled through normal combustion.
And particulates aside for now (since to be fair the other side of the coin), there are other very harmful byproducts of gas combustion, that is low or non-existent in diesel exhaust. But the reporting never concentrates on that aspect of course, cuz they are too busy saying, the diesels are loud, or stinky, or messy. I just have to roll my eyes when I hear that. Yes, there are diesel powered vehicles including utility machinery that are running rich due to long ago worn out fuel injectors etc etc. But people used to let big gas engines slide in state of tune also. But regardless, you can never get away from the basic fact that more work can (and always will) be done on a gallon of diesel, than a gal of gas.
LA just got rid of their last diesel bus, and there's a big push to get the pollution under control on the diesel school buses. Some port is raising cane over idling cruise ships.
I dunno, by the time diesel manages to get over its reputation in the US, they won't be competitive with hybrid and plug-in cars.
Oh yeah, the loudness. I don't miss hearing my neighbor's pickemup truck and VW pickup in the mornings since I moved from Boise. He was 200' feet away but I could hear him coming and going another 300' down at the intersection on his way home from work.
However the more ethanol they add to the gas the lower the mileage on the hybrids. Plug-ins and EVs are probably dead out of the gate due to large increases in electricity. They will also be all be useless in cold climates. Batteries don't like being real cold. That is one reason for the lower mileage in the winter with Prius. While a diesel may take a bit to warm up on a cold morning I don't think it hurts the mileage much.
Of course the other issue is available diesel vehicles. VW/Audi is the only company offering high mileage cars at present.
The farther north you are, the greater the ratio of winter fuel is blended to avoid gelling in the really cold temps.
Yes, that has been my argument ever since David Suzuki bought the first Prius in Canada. The inefficiency of batteries as the temp drops. And to compound the issue, now you also have an engine that is filling the void of low battery current, that is not well designed, or sized, to do the majority of the duty of propelling the car.
And not to mention that we still have not dealt with the pollution of battery manufacturing or replacement disposal. Those two little tidbits are always conveniently never in the spotlight.
FWIW, I still hold out hope for a greater selection of diesels here in NA. The problem is though, we need better quality diesel too. And by the time NA's wake up and realize the true potential of diesel, the engines will be choked with even more emission devices and complexity that cost will dig into your fuel cost savings.
btw, really liked the two pics u posted about corned gas.
In any case, if I added home fueling station/s for electrical, natural gas fueling, those fuel demands would push me into top tiers of already EXPENSIVE "alternative" energies. Those additions would subject me to yearly code inspections, compliance and risk of red tagging (home unfit for human habitation). I also would have increased and expensive yearly fees. Not paying the fees is actually grounds for red tagging and seizure. The taxation level at all levels would now rise to include the normal close to 2% of accessed values.
Permits are not even available. Municipalities close to here have been highlighted byt the "liberal"media as charging 20,000 to 30,000 for FEES in the process of adding just passive solar panels. This of course does not include the all important environmental studies to further charge you mitigation fees in the process of charging you fees for even wanting to go green......
You can't even get the information so you can do a side by side mpg equivalent. That usually means the cost per mile driven (fuel) is far higher than even RUG to PUG and certainly diesel. So I will have to pay more to get the system for the privileage of paying a LOT MORE yearly???
When you have the facts which are hard to obtain, it doesnt take more than grade school math to figure this out. (are you smarter than a 5th grader? comes to mind)
I think if the truth were revealed more cancer causing elements are emitted by gasoline than by diesel exhaust.
Glad you liked the cartoons. They say things better than I do most of the time.
"idling from 5 am to 5 pm all day every day during the winter."
are you a paramedic?
Altho I guess ambulances idle year round regardless of temp.
The manufacturing/replacement issue gets talked about as does the electrical power generation issue for the pure plug-ins. The upside to that "fuel" is that the facilities (and mines) don't move around like gasoline and diesel fuel, so you have monitoring stations right at the factory to keep track of emissions and other stuff.
Yes, that's a good point, although not immune from collusion. I'm afraid I have seen too much in the past that almost nothing surprises me anymore. There is just so much political hand wringing and manipulation how can we, just the people, possibly know for sure the behind the scenes?
I think Honda had their Ensight out before the Prius by a few (one?) years. But I remember one of Suzuki's shows, he announced that he wanted to be the first to own one in Cda. I think one of his daughters put the most miles on it. I tried to write him and ask him to update us on the car and the overall ownership experience after all these years, but never heard from him. My mail might have ended up in a spam box...who knows.
If heavily mitigated diesel passenger cars ( 1.272 M in the US) are the bain to life on the planet as we know it, then why on EARTH does the PORTS (LA LA, Long Beach, etc etc allow shipping traffic to use upwards of 30,000 PPM bunker oil ?????????????????????
Shut down all the PORTS untill they are mitigated like VW Jetta TDI's???????????
ABSURD and even ABSURDER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(yes I know absurder is not a real word, just doing the venacular hollywood gig here)
Needless to say the upwards of 30,000 ppm sulfur bunker oil users have absolutely ZERO,ZILCH, mitigation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again from that perspective, ABSURDEST !!!! When you compare it to the 5 to 7 ppm sulfur of USLD that is a minium of 6,000 TIMES !!!!!!! more?????? If you assign 1 ppm to the use of bio diesel that is a paltry 30,000 times greater and that is DAH minimum !
Once again, my wife has mild asthma and the fumes bother her.
There's plenty of other reasons to prefer a gasser. Never a worry about finding a station, spilt fuel doesn't stink up your shoes or whatever else it gets on (haven't seen fueling gloves lately though), mechanics can be hard to find (even at the dealer), and the price differential makes up for some of the mileage advantage. RUG here is $3.25 and diesel is $3.44.
Funny thing happened going to town this morning. We got behind a dump truck that absolutely stunk horrible. Every time he let off it spewed a big black cloud out the exhaust stack. Now this is unusual around here with the CA mandated cleaner diesel. We had to follow him about 3 miles down the hill as there are no places to pass. When I was able to see his license, it was a Baja plate from Mexico. So he was probably up working on one of the government stimulus projects with minority hire rules. And he was stinking up our clean air, because the Feds and the State of CA air quality people do not bother with vehicles coming in from Mexico. It has been so long I really had forgotten how stinky a diesel truck can be.
are you a paramedic?
We were the telephone men. For years we did not have any place to plug our vehicles in by our shop. It would take a good half hour to warm up a truck even one that is plugged in. When someone called with a phone problem we were expected to be there in less than a half hour. The oil service companies were not tolerant of poor service. It could also create an emergency situation on the drill rigs. All our diesel trucks were equipped with idle controllers. When you left the truck idle it would kick up to 1600 RPM. That is better for a diesel engine than a low idle. It also keeps the temp up when it is -40 or more below zero.
As long as they play by the same rules required of US businesses. My main issue was the fact that CA has required clean diesel for so long I forgot what a smelly diesel truck was like. I don't think commercial trucks should be allowed into the US to do work without having the same emissions requirements. CARB regulations have decimated the trucking industry in CA. Many companies have left or filed for bankruptcy. They can run their trucking business from NV, OR or AZ and avoid the CARB eco nuts.
Here is a like for LIKE example (manual trans) 03 Jetta:
TDI- 46.4 mpg/3.44= .0741379 pmd /
2.0- 30.7 mpg/3.25= .1058631 pmd /
1.8 T -27.4 mpg/3.45= .1259124 pmd /
V6 -24.5/3.45= .1408163 pmd.
So RUG is 42.8% more pmd.
PUG is 69.8% more pmd
PUG on V6 is 89.9% more pmd.
Here is an 03 Toyota Camry 28 mpg/3.25=.1160714 pmd
So RUG is 52.14% more pmd (Camry is a pretty close competitor)
We should just give California to Mexico, then we can have more diesel cars.
I see the E-class diesel is supposed to be back this year...haven't seen one yet.