What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

scwmcan

I agre with you about the corrosion resistance, it is getting pretty rare to see a car with rust on the rads, even up here, and if you do see one it is usually over 10 years old, a big difference from the past when you would see 3 year old cars with rust on them. Yes you can repair the other systems, if you can afford them, and if the manufactures still carry the parts, they sem to be obsoleting parts sooner than was the norm in the past, I can remaber going to the dealer for 20 year old car parts, don't know that you could go for say a new ecu for a 20 year old car today (or in the future), I think that is where the tech is going to cause problems for longevity, I think the mechanicals generally last longer nowadays, but the tech may not last ad long. Personally I don't need the latest gadgets in my car, I do like abs , traction control, and the airbags for safety, but don't need nav, fancy user interfaces instead of a plain store and proper knobs for the climate control, don't need a touch screen in the car etc, this is the stuff that generally needs the software updates to remain current/bug free and it is the stuff I could care less about having myself.

gagrice

but don't need nav, fancy user interfaces instead of a plain store and proper knobs for the climate control, don't need a touch screen in the car etc, this is the stuff that generally needs the software updates to remain current/bug free and it is the stuff I could care less about having myself.

After having all that in my Sequoia, I have to agree with you. My NAV was 3 years out of date when I bought the SUV. They want $500 for a newer out of date DVD. The NAV CD player died on the vehicle. Took months to get a replacement from the factory in India. A person can get a Verizon Jet Pack and a cheap 10 inch Tablet that will give up to the minute traffic and directions via Google maps. The sad part is most diesel SUVs I am interested in put all that crapolla in as standard equipment.

ruking1

adding my .015 cents, I almost totally agree. I have a 1994 TLC (19 years old) whose head unit gave up the ghost a while back and a new updated gee whiz whats it, makes the current driver a happy camper.

It needed a few gaskets replaced in the engine, transfer case and transmission. But I am told by long time repair guru's, these are common to TLC's. While they were in there, they also adjusted the valves. The internal parts were literally showing original tool marks and were pristine in spite of (or defacto maybe because of) 20,000 miles OCI's (@ 220,000+ miles) . I understand it also uses the Aisin brand transmission. The thing continues to smog @ 4 year old values.

To add to the last two posts, I was glad the VW Touareg comes in three trims. For what I want a vehicle for, I would even consider an even more basic trim. !

I got a $99. navi big box club special that can be popped in and out of multiple cars. When that either breaks down or no longer makes sense, it will probably be even cheaper to replace. Late breaking sales news. One navi vendor offers a refurbished unit for $ 51. Two well known (auto) navi vendors are headquartered near here. In fact anyone that uses navi for commercial aggie and other professional apps will recognized a third ( former (navi) client).

I am not sure on other cars, but VW across the line has a 12 year rust warranty. Not that anyone can see it, nor would non VW owners even care, they use galvanized metal.

scwmcan

For the times I need nav, my cell phone works just fine ( and if I wanted I could use it to link to the iPad and use the I pads bigger screen, but at this point t least don't need to). In any case as long as I have a radio with an aux input that is all I really need for entertainment and nav.

ruking1

Same trip with 3 people and 1,000#'s off stuff, went a bit slower upgrade for a 31.4 mpg. Will post the downgrade mpg later.

ruking1

PT Duex

The downgrade return posted 35.2 mpg : 2 delays of 35 min and only 200#'s in the trunk posted for a R/T average of 33.3 mpg. There was rain, some sleet and ALMOST a posted chain control point. Stuck behind a covey of RANK mountain drivers.

stever

A nearby Citgo is selling regular for $3.88. Diesel has dropped about twenty cents to $4.03. Cheap. :shades:

Premium was blowing the doors off at $4.38.

gagrice

That seems like a drastic difference between RUG and PUG. Ours seems to stay right at 20 cents difference. Our diesel is right at $4 and RUG is at $3.85 at a lot of stations.

stever

The price difference at that station is lots more than my old rule of thumb, which was add a dime for mid-grade and another dime for premium. This stuff isn't even ethanol free either.

Whenever I buy gas again, I'll try to check the pump prices at my usual station (have to drive Wednesday, so that'll be the day that both cars will finally be on fumes. :-)).

ruking1

$ 3.95 D2, $3.75 RUG, $3.95 PUG: at one local resort station.

Mr_Shiftright

Diesel seems consistently @ .20 cents over premium here in NorCal.

xwesx

Any of those prices sound pretty good to me. RUG is varying within a cent or two of $4 here, with diesel at $4.40.

scwmcan

Just to let you know the rating for the GLK diesel highway is 5.9l/100km or basically 40 mpg, city is 8.9 or27 mpg. So pretty good around for a 4x4 CUV

Mr_Shiftright

the camshaft problems on the VW diesel PD motor?

ruking1

I think it depends by what is meant by "FIX". Were there part/s redesign/s and recall/s? No, there hasn't been, to my knowledge.

SIDEBAR:

(high friction load onto very small areas of the camshaft; causing faster and more wear on camshafts) ( best fix being: spread the higher friction loads over greater areas of the camshaft combined with a greater viscosity oil like 5w40)

I have heard of a few cases where VW would either pick up the tab (rare) or if they even did that, a portion. The population was fairly small (but with some significance, so the practical fix was to get the cam R/R'd and use a "non specified" 5w40 oil like Mobil One TDT, or another oil (available @ Walmart). I have read in such cases the reliability has been very good.

gagrice

people will buy them.

The Chattanooga-built Passat continued to deliver strong results with 9,521 units sold and best year-to-date with 25,909 units delivered. In March, 34 percent of the Passat’s sold were diesel.


Audi did well with diesel:

Sales mix for Audi TDI clean diesel models finish the month at 23% for the A3 TDI and 26% for Q7 TDI.

fintail

It might be an anomaly due to the end of model year production, but my dealer sold the other diesels within a few weeks of mine, and hasn't received any others. Gassers continue to come and go.

ruking1

VW now has @ least 5 models that sell a greater minority percentage of diesels. Passat, Jetta, JSW, (station wagon) Golf, Touareg.

It is a bit of a mystery to me why BMW (whille buidling the X 5 and others for WW consumption and the 35D (other diesels also) for the US consumption IN the USA) does not mention the diesel percentage much at all.

gagrice

That was why I asked the BMW salesman about it. He was very straight forward saying the X5D easily outsells the gasser.

alltorque

When I was running my old, (2004), 1.9 TDi PD 130bhp engine the oil specified was to VW 505 01 spec.................no other. major problem, (as outlined to me by an automotive lubricants research colleague), was that failure to use that spec would ultimately lead to camshaft problems, regardless of viscosity or other "suitable for use in........" claims. From vague memory it was more a corrosion/wear problem than simple mechanical wear.

Very few of the oil majors had oils to that spec on retail sale in Europe, (and probably even fewer in USA), so it was a case of buying the odd litre for top-up from VW/Audi/Skoda/SEAT dealers. Not the cheapest but certainly the most cost-effective.

Later TDis used later specs but it was, and still is, a case of the right horse for the right course.

Just my two penn'orth of knowledge/personal experience.

ruking1

I will of course have to differ to the "broader" European experience, as the US was far more focused/narrowed and with a way smaller percentage. I suspect the US markets also got the "Mr. Hyde version", the European version being more the Dr. Jekyll like. I personally had/still have the 03 TDI or NON PD. It has been the proverbial trooper. So as you can see I have no skin in that game. . Most of what I know about it has either been through reading web sites and talking to 3/4 TDI guru's. They actually do /still do 04 R/R camshaft's. They actually do recommend the use of Mobil One TDI 5w40 oils.

tifighter

Diesel benefits shrink as gas engines get more fuel-efficient, torquier

Guaranteed to get somebody fired up...

ruking1

ZZZZZZZZZ. Yes, 20 mpg + is FAR better than 30+ mpg !!!! I also have it on good authority that 265# ft of torque is FAR more powerful than 406 # ft of torque !! That ought to fire one up !!

gagrice

The article is mostly spin from what I read. The promises of great mileage from DI engines along with massive torque is not happening. I think the automakers have figured out how to play the EPA mileage game. Which vehicles cost $5000 more with diesel option? Maybe if the dealers are heavily discounting the gas models that no one wants. If accurate mileage figures came from the EPA there would be no comparison.

Mr_Shiftright

It's not really the MPG that we should be focusing on, in judging "who wins" in a diesel vs. gas engine "war". What we should be focusing on is "gallonage". If a consumer trades in a 30 mpg gasser for a 40 mpg diesel, he hasn't gained much at all in gallonage per year, but if he trades in a 16 mpg vehicle for a 40 mpg, he's doing quite well.

so it's not the MPG, it's the JUMP in gallons you gain per year that should determine if buying a diesel car makes sense to you.

If a 40 mpg diesel tries to compete with a 30 mpg gas car that costs $3,000 to $5000 less, it's going to lose that battle.

gagrice

If a 40 mpg diesel tries to compete with a 30 mpg gas car that costs $3,000 to $5000 less, it's going to lose that battle.

I agree that going from a 15 MPG SUV to a 30 MPG SUV is the smartest choice. I am not convinced your above argument holds up on either the short or long haul. If you only keep a vehicle 3 years you will get most of the premium back on trade. If you keep a vehicle till it is worthless you will have spent less for fuel and more than gain back the premium. The other issue is too many people base their argument on base diesel vs base gassers. Most of the companies put their diesels in an upgraded model to start with. One of the most popular selling diesels now is the Passat with 34% of sales last month being diesel. People are realizing they make sense. The Sportswagen sell 85% diesel.

Mr_Shiftright

"People are realizing they make sense"...

did you mean "people THINK they make sense"?

If it's their first diesel, how would they know beforehand?

What if: a) they realized that, for them, the difference in fuel savings from their old car wasn't all that much; b) that the Passat had too many problems to justify the fuel savings; c) that their neighbor's crossover reports MPG just a little less than their Passat?

Many a product has surged in the marketplace out of novelty or promise, only to fall back again.

stever

Took a 50 mile trip in an '03 Ford Power Stroke this morning. Was a bit stinky idling when we popped in for coffee but it was fine inside the cab. Didn't even bother my wife.

ruking1

Essentially, I have covered that "gallonage" more than once.

But say we use a round number, 120,000 miles (first major tune for a 09 Jetta TDI, 12,000 miles per yr for 10 years, etc. ) 28.4/39.6 mpg (fuel.gov) will consume 4,225 gal /3,030 gal= 1,195 gals MORE. PUG will use 39.4% MORE. Just on the "extra gallonage" alone @ 4.15 per gal, it will cost an extra $4,959.25 to go the SAME 120,000 miles. One can scale UP/ DOWN (miles per month/qtr/yr lease period, etc, etc.) as the circumstances dictate/require.

The 2012 VW T gasser/diesel differences are even more dramatic, as Fuelly lists one gasser @ 19 (less than Acura MDX (20 mpg) used in a prior post's example) and one closer (better @ 30.9) to my 30 mpg.

So for 120,000 miles that is consumption of 6,316 gals/4,000 gals or 58% MORE. 2,316 gals @ 4.15 per gal RUG makes the extra "gallonage" cost $9,811 more,.... to go the SAME 120,000 miles. So, .... scale away !

Mr_Shiftright

By my calculations a gasser getting 28 mpg will use 1,285 more gallons than a 40 mpg diesel over the course of 120,000 miles.

This works out to $520 a year; however, the diesel owner at least in my neck of the woods, paid 8% more for his fuel.

So if we knock 8% off the $520 per year we get $478 per year more to drive my 28 mpg gasser than your 40 mpg diesel.

given the $5000 more it costs to buy the Jetta Diesel Sportwagon over the gasser, this is all about a "break even" game.

If you got 1/3 of your $5000 premium back on resale ($1700) and let's day you saved $250 a year on maintenance (which is a generous assumption IMO), you are $4200 to the good over 10 years, or $420 advantage per year to drive the diesel when all the dust has settled.

That's okay, but for me, not compelling.