Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
We are holding at $2.35 for RUG and Costco is still the best price on diesel at $2.65. It is about 9 miles further than the cheapest CC diesel in my area. If I wait until I am about down 20 gallons and save 20 cents a gallon over the $2.85 10 miles from home or $2.99 three miles from home, I save a minimum $4. I always combine it with a shopping trip or library run. I just wish my Costco would upgrade their pumps and add diesel.
My BIL was amused at my comment as we hit Deming. The Chevron near the Interstate exit there was $2.18, so I said the cheap stuff in town was probably $2.07 and told my wife to keep driving. I missed it by a penny. No data on the iPad this trip to look up GasBuddy stuff en route. Most of the time we weren't getting good cell coverage anyway.
Lots of other interesting tidbits in this Automotive News article, like booming Ram sales due to pent up diesel demand and a bit of a fall off in TDI sales. And look for a narrow spread in pricing come June.
Diesel's premium grows, shuffling fuel economy math
"Over 35 vehicles that are available in gasoline and diesel form, the firm found just eleven models for which the cost of ownership was lower compared to the gasoline counterpart."
Five vehicles that cost less to own as diesels (Christian Science Monitor)
Amen Brother! The lack of an Energy Policy over the past 35 years (or more) has been one of the biggest failures of any Congress that has sat during that time. If it's true that running a democracy is like making sausages, then these weiners taste awful.
IF they are "willing" to pay close to a BILLION $$'s in fines levied, it is a no brainer to surmise that "PROPER" infrastructure upgrades, repairs and maintenance are easily in the TRILLIONS !! So the power companies are willing to pay for bandaids, when major reconstructive surgery is needed !!!
Lest I forget, no good deed goes unpunished !! ??
The Progressive Case for Fracking
Tumbling oil prices have sent repressive regimes around the world reeling. Liberals should rejoice.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/james-bloodworth-the-progressive-case-for-fracking-1419898265?mod=hp_opinion
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Another is the original architecture allowed for INDIVIDUAL, aka modular addition/replacement. So there are not SYSTEMS impediments. In other words, the whole SYSTEM does not have to be replaced. NOW it DOES most likely needs TOTAL replacement. Those are probably whole other levels of reasonings.
Another is the "ENVIRONMENTAL" WIND project was plagued from the beginning by .... environmental lawsuits !!!!!!
Go WIND and SOLAR and .... we will SUE you for going WIND and SOLAR !!!! OR maybe they REALLY understand the downsides !! ?? LOL
With friends like that, who needs enemies? Needless to say successful and unsuccessful lawsuits effect/affect financial scenarios. I should have been a lawyer !!!!!!
Indeed a 1% D2 oversupply can easily cause a $1.00 drop in ULSD prices. The number of gals of D2 would be FAR less than RUG/PUG (93 M bbl per day with 1% over) !!!! In the context of prices BELOW $2.03 per gal, i.e. cheaper than RUG/PUG. This will of course not necessarily affect RUG/PUG prices. So to put some numbers to it. 20% + D2 is exported from DOMESTIC refineries, vs close to ZERO % RUG/PUG.
SOS/DD area
ULSD $ 3.03
RUG $ 2.35
MG $ 2.45
PUG $2.55
Also could not help but notice a 2 HUGE blades CAT diesel grader go by (the house) with tire chains to push little to no snow !!! Got to love complete and TOTAL overkill ! !! OH that is right, we pay TAXES !!!
Using the mpg numbers from Consumer Reports, 19/39 – 1.8L and 26/51 – TDI we get:
1.8L @ 19 mpg & $2.30/ gallon = cost of 12.1 cents/mile
TDI @ 26 mpg & $3.21/ gallon = cost of 12.3 cents/mile
1.8L @ 39 mpg & $2.30/ gallon = cost 5.9 of cents/mile
TDI @ 51 mpg & $3.21/ gallon = cost 6.3 of cents/mile
On top of this the TDI engine is a few grand more. The 1.8L engine is the better option from a $$$ and performance perspective. I would definitely purchase the Passat 1.8L versus the Passat TDI.
It won't.
And if you spend any time driving on the highway, the diesel is much nicer to live with.
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Costco_Gas_Stations/Chula_Vista/75686/index.aspx
Comparing the fuel costs of a small gas engine to a small diesel engine doesn't really tell the whole story.
Consider:
more durable engines
greater range between fill ups
great pulling power (for pickup truck owners)
good resale value (in most cases)
nice low end torque for squirting around in traffic
environmentally as sound as a gas car (in most cases)
MB really needs to bring over a C250 Bluetec 4Matic wagon, I might actually keep one of those for a long time.
(Welcome back @avalon02wh)
IF the RUG/PUG PRICES can be literally CRUSHED (market driven) with a 1% over supply AND IS 95% of the PVF , can one just IMAGINE how much CHEAPER each fuel segment can be with say 50 to 60 % RUG/PUG, 40 % to 50% diesel and 10% "other" !!! ??? (% examples only).
So no matter which way prices do/will go, diesels will have the minimum of 30 % + mpg efficiency.
So for example, the"ultimate" fuel price hedge would the same model with RUG/PUG, diesel, EV versions.
Now the BO POTUS administration could have claim plausible deniability and blame/vilify those dastardly and despicable oil, gas, and electricy industries. However, he needed to go toe to toe (economically) with PUTIN ( POTUS administration) and pay back some of the Cuban and terrorists sponsors like Venezuela and IRAN. et. al.
I hope for our sakes that the US oil and gas industries do not pass on ANY technology to CHINA. Nobody runs oil and gas fields like US companies.
Greater pulling power is great even for those that do not own pick up trucks nor tow.This is true especially @ altitude (I normally run 5,000 to 7,388 ft) In addition, 2 seasons are normally more consumptive: winter, fall.
Another side bar are diesels emissions wise are very close to gasser/hybrids. !! (normally gasser hybrids are a bit less.)
Cheaper per mile driven at this stage is gravy.
In other oil wars, How Ford's New F-150 Will Compete With the Diesel Ram (fool.com)
So for example, when our local G & E blew up a community (natural gas explosion) it took them several hours to turn off the gas ! ??? By that time, the modern day Dante's Inferno had killed (8) folks and wiped out one whole PUD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_San_Bruno_pipeline_explosion
The natural gas valves controlling the flow are LITERALLY not far from my house in a natural gas substation. Indeed the TDI passes it EVERY commute day.
Not only is the Ford F 150 logic tortured @ best, but the MINUS 700 + #'s is/was not compared. So do we think mpg and payload will go UP/down when RAM DIESEL loses 700#'s PLUS ???
2 Slow news diesel day (probably NOT related)
1. 09 Jetta TDI @ app 95,000 miles (first time), the low coolant lamp lit. Took out the bottle o G12 (what VW calls anti freeze) and distilled H20 and filled the anti freeze tank with 10 oz of fluid. Will burp it and adjust fluid levels, if some air was induced (probably not).
2. SOS/DD, got down off the mountain. I had to follow the herd the rest of the trip. 29 mpg. Got a .50 cent per gal grocery discount, so I am fulling expecting $2.53 per gal or less, ULSD or $13 saved per 26 gal tank.
I can see ~30 panels from my living room window and I'm really paranoid about solar leaks and explosions.
I don't think anyone does fuel discounts around here. Closest grocery with an affinity card is Smiths and they aren't around Las Cruces for some reason. Good stores too.
Good luck with the coolant. I'd just like to dump my '09 before the dash on it lights up like a Christmas tree..
I am not sure what to make of what your quote says about gassers and cooling systems.
As I remember (could be faulty) the 03 Jetta TDI took on G12 @ app same mileage and amount. BUT it was done @ the same time as a TB/water pump change, so we loss a wee bit more draining and refilling the coolant system to complete the procedure.
EVEN if diesel ZERO to 60 mph WERE better than like model gassers, I can easily pass MOST gassers @ altitude. SO .... no advantage. On the SOS/DD trek, BIG V8's do try to keep up with my dinky 3.0 L and even dinkier 2.1 L, 1.9 L TDI's . While i have never had a drink at a bar to ask any why, I suspect watching their gas gauge actually move while they are trying to keep up MIGHT be one factor. Of course, I don't want to tell em I get between 29 to 48 mpg, staying ahead of them.
Although the price of entry is important and since I (usually) drive them forever, resale isn't much of an issue. I dunno, it would also bug me to be paying a buck more a gallon right now, even though we know the differential will shrink in a few months. Shoot, even "premium required" is a deal killer for me. Torque is fun but zero to 60 is meh.
Really, what I want is tech, and mostly the safety tech at that.
Even though all the family is in tech, I am probably the least uber enthused about it in cars. One reason: more distractions.
Perhaps that would NOT be as true, if I was being driven most of the time. Then I could watch movies, TV, do internet, Yelping, shave, dress, eat lunch, track stocks, do meetings, talk on the phone, etc. However my most favorite thing to do on a long car ride is to NAP and look out windows, while conscious. This writes BORING to me as it probably is to most reading this. Most folks I know who are SUPER techie HATE to spend ANY time in cars, let alone the times I do, even as short as SOS/DD trek 2.75 hours UP.
Google for example made a manpower wasting project out of only 45 mins to 1 hour of it. For the solutions to the issues, they are being vilified. Again no good deeds go unpunished.
But then I have to say, it is CRIMINAL to suicidal to murderous to be distracted on a 2 lane mountain road that by all rights should be a FREEWAY !!! One example, going by an on coming fully loaded gasoline truck within 24 to 6 INCHES separation (yes and NO barrier- inclement weather is also a treat) .
Oh yeah, a place for my USB stick and a wifi hotspot for when I'm riding shotgun. :-)
I do know for me, every time I want to either change something, activate or deactivate, it requires a lot of learning, relearning, to remembering, to pulling out an almost incomprehensible set of 1000 pg PLUS series of owners manuals !!!
So for example, VW Touareg TDI has buttons for 3 sets of different garage doors remotes. I hope it isn't VW's way of telling me I need 3 houses with a garage door each.
Not sure how a diesel is better on the highway. I really don't want or need a car with that kind of range. Stopping every once and awhile is needed to empty the you know what and to stretch the legs.
I have found that a range of 350 to 400 miles is more than enough. Our Altima, which gets 40 mpg at 70-75 mph, can easily go 600 miles with the 18 gallon tank.
Diesels may have a better resale value, but you pay for that up front when you buy the car. This becomes mute if people are keeping their diesel for many years and miles.
Gasoline engines with a turbo also have good low end torque.
On balance, I still would not get a diesel. If diesel where to get within 5-10% of the price of RUG I might reconsider. That may never happen. Yesterday, I went by two gas stations that had diesel. The price for diesel was $3.49. The price for RUG was $2.39. E85 was $1.79.
In yowser at the bowser news"
"The faster growing demand for diesel has supported higher global prices than for unleaded.
The United States is the world’s largest producer and exporter of diesel fuels and, according to Bloomberg News, the refiners’ profit margins on diesel were roughly about double the margins for unleaded petrol as world crude oil prices began to tumble."
Ergo, diesel car promotion is a conspiracy by Shell, BP, et. al.
Why diesel drivers are being slugged at the bowser (thenewdaily.com.au)
I think there is if you view "durability" in terms of basic metallurgy; however, what with the variables of owner maintenance and driving conditions, proving conclusively that your diesel car will outlive your gas car might be an elusive quest.
In any event, given how long most Americans keep their cars, the long range durability will be irrelevant for 95% of us.
Also, diesel cars are not the same as diesel buses and trucks, which do rack up some remarkable mileages. They also have engines that are often as large as 1/2 your entire car.
I'm seeing some reliability complaints on '08 VWs - I thought VWs were getting loads better since my sister's '00 New Bettle issues (especially the power windows). But are you going to drive an efficient diesel (or NY gasser for that matter) with a dead dash or if you are looking at an AC repair that's going to cost more than the book value of the car?
However, most gasser owners and some diesel owners for a whole host of reasons, rarely go there and/or are loathed to much exceed that. Indeed, I would surmise even Avalon2 thinks he (his gasser) might be living on borrowed time passed the 2nd cycle from @ 120,000 to 240,000 miles. So IF very few folks are going to ACTUALLY go 2,3,4 cycles, aka 240,000, 360,000, 480,000 miles, to ask for data from those that do NOT is a tad delusional, more PC, irrational. On the other hand, when those that actually do go over that AND report results, it is vilified as anecdotal, to be PC.
The 2003 Jetta TDI is going on 187,000 miles, that easily still gets 50 mpg. So far I have done 30,000 miles OCIs and one major tune (TB/WP change and a VAG.com tune up) For its residual worth, the cost per mile driven: DEPRECIATION is app 4.28 cents per mile. I am actually looking for that to go DOWN, aka get better. My take,@ both the age and mileage, it is relatively NEW.
I am used to any number of GASSERS with app 250,000 miles, two dissimilar examples: 1970 VW Beetle (Germ) , 1987 TLC ([non-permissible content removed]). So a diesel (Germ/[non-permissible content removed]) to those same mileages are indeed (for me) a no brainer. (given no [non-permissible content removed] TDI, default leaves Germ) In fact, I'd to tickled to get the same cpm DEPRECIATION of .028 cents, gotten on a 1987 TLC, used in a former business. Mpg was between 12 to 15 mpg.
It had airbags. And, er, ABS brakes. That's about it for "features". Doing without all that stuff is a big downside to "driving them forever". Most average drivers will still take around seven years to get to 100k.
I want my USB.
To keep all to some assertions mainly data driven with opinion based conclusions so stated, those issues have been ongoingly addressed .
What cuts to the quick, quickly: cost per mile driven; FUEL I have any number of times compared like models and LOCAL fuel prices (my- use YOURS obviously)
So with PUG @ $2.99 for 18 mpg AND ULSD @ $3.09 (MORE per gal !!!!) for 29 mpg, the 12 VW T gasser uses PUG/TDI= PMD: FUEL= 16.61 cents/10.66 cents. SO,... PUG like model= 56 % MORE (than ULSD) !!! Seems like a lot of folks are arthritic around CHEAP calculators or don't have pencil and paper to do math. !! ???
Be that as it may, I am TOTALLY ok with the majority (95%+) of folks choosing to pay (much) MORE !! Just don't force me or make it uneconomically untenable for folks like me to pay .... LESS !!
Don't you all remember that was what got US and the US into this artificial MESS in the first place? (circa 1970's, about a biblical generation ago) In contrast, (converted) UK and Germ currently pay $8.00 +plus US per gal RUG/PUG !!!
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
GOOD/BAD? TMI to grossly misleading?
However, unless one is ONE of the RARE folks to drive in ALL 50 states, and DC and the "colony's", the over all data can be substantively to TOTALLY MISLEADING !! ?? By all rights, the real nexus should be each states' (50+ DC + the "colony's) correlation/s WITH the OVERALL DATA, which I might add has/has never not been done !!!!!!!!!
So for example, I drive locally in NorCA and western NV. So why should I freak about DUI, accidents, fatalities in New Orleans, LA , or the other 48 + states, etc. !! ??? The corollary here, I should pay WRAPPED attention to the accidents, fatalities and DUI statistics for NorCA and way secondarily in western NV. !!
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/States/StatesCrashesAndAllVictims.aspx
Maybe....
I test drove 3 MY's of MB 250 BT's @ local MB dealerships before a dealer actually had one configured (one on his inventory) that came close to what I actually wanted. So what was a 3 MY "wait", turned into a 12 min sell/buy, when it became apparent to the dealer's management that I was serious or to me that they were.
Not that you should want or need 2015 GOLF products !!!! . BUT they have examples of Turbo's TSI gasser's, TDI's even EV's , 2 manuals, DSG, etc., etc.
The 2015 Jetta has 2 gassers, gas hybrid, TDI's, etc., etc. !!!!!
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/diesel-users-shut-gas-plunge-142100510.html
If it helps, I have to reorder propane tomorrow and it'll be delivered in a diesel truck.
That reminds me, gotta call for another solar quote tomorrow from the other local company here.