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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    How depressing. That's about the range of a 1916 Detroit Electric in 25 mph city driving.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2014
    Cheap diesel here - $3.32 at the station stuck in the Main Street road construction.

    Regular is, ahem, $1.08 a gallon cheaper.

    My bud in Sweetwater TX says diesel is $3.22 there and reports that Bakersfield CA has it for $2.97.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I wonder if our selling diesel abroad has kept it over priced. It should be cheaper than RUG by a good amount. Even with higher federal taxes and state taxes. If Qatar gets all its Gas to diesel plants rolling it should bring down the World price and make vacationing great here. Rocky is loving his Cruze diesel. Says it is the best car he has ever owned.

    Almost 20k miles in 15 months on our Touareg TDI, and easily the nicest vehicle I have ever owned. When the hybrids or EVs have a full sized AWD SUV with a 750 mile EPA highway rating let me know.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    According to EVERYTHING I have read, the answer is YES and positively !!!! :@ Currently, upwards of 20% + of US refined/refinery D2 is EXPORTED. This LACK OF SUPPLY in turn REALLY tightens the screws ( puts HUGE upward pricing pressures) on DOMESTIC supplies. Sans all the local, state, fed and world reasons (upstream) , another YES, and ULSD should be FAR FAR FAR CHEAPER than RUG/PUG, and by quite a lot (downstream).

    Remember this current RUG/PUG glut is causing tectonic massive earthquake pricing movements with only 1% extra supply !!!! Can you imagine what it would be if the domestic RUG/PUG usage was only 30 to 50% INSTEAD of 95% ?????????? It is almost breath taking the pricing POWER !!! We can literally CRUSH the Russian military and economy without firing a shot !! (Russia being the "LARGEST" producer in the world) It is amazing that most folks can't see this at all. Saudi Arabia would be almost not a footnote. Saudi Arabia's cost per barrel is $2.00 per BARREL !!!!!!! Yet it needs $100 + to keep its (internal) socialist welfare system alive.

    IF a lot of folks citing the fact that USLD is + 1 penny more a gal to whatever is often done, is ANY indicator, (just done by one of the hosts) that helps to keep folks from demanding and buying diesel cars, even when far more per mile driven is actually paid by RUG/PUG users.

    Judging by how many people do not even use a cheap calculator to verify my MB GLK 350 vs MB 250 BT per mile driven fuel figures (aka WAY CHEAPER DIESEL) you would think THEY think I was lying ??? You would think they would love to prove me WRONG. I think it also drives folks wild because the VW Touareg has a gasser/hybrid (like model) and it costs app 15k MORE than the TDI. ;)

    Most folks don't know nor even care that it has been against the law/policy to EXPORT domestic oil and refined domestic RUG/PUG since the 1970s or 4 decades going on 5 decades, aka more than a GNERATION literal and biblical.

    Anyway... anyone for a diesel????

    Volkswagen brand suffers biggest drop in car sales this year
    Reuters
    23 hours ago

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-november-brand-sales-152344687.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Unlike Russia and especially Venezuela, the Saudi's have a lot of money in storage so they can ride cheap oil for a long time. Kind of like Alaska (another oil state getting hammered), except folks up there love their mega-boondoogle projects so a bust will come. Even NM is getting hit since about 25% of our general fund dollars come from oil and gas. No one seems to be complaining about cheap gas though.

    Re VW - the mystery continues. Their profits probably jumped again with the fall in their car sales. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sounds like Yahoo is not telling the whole story. VW is actually up for November over last November by 3.2%. They are down for the year by 10.9% which is not so great. But Audi and Porsche are kicking butt. So would you rather sell a $100k Cayenne or a $50k Touareg?

    From VW you would think they are doing great. And they may be, the bottom line is the bottom line. Making $1000 on one sale vs $500 each on two sales, I would take the one sale. You have half the hassles with one customer. So many advantages. WW they may still beat Toyota this year?

    http://media.vw.com/release/894/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    DIESEL TMI:

    Just got back from the (my) local tire shop after doing a 5,000 miles rotation (15,000 miles on the tire set, oem recommends 10,000 miles between rotations) VWT TDI (W 50,000 miles on oem alignment and specifications) the wheel lugs nuts were given specific # ft of torque, PSI adjustments (3 psi over oem recommendations of 33/38, or 36/41 psi.

    They ( shop owner, technician ) were blown away. There were little to NO noticeable wear. (to them, I was a tad clueless) So at first they looked surprised and asked why I wanted a rotation, before checking the EXACT mileage on their computer. Wear across the tread was total even. While @ the shop, I checked the CR tire recommendation issue. For the SUV/CUV, both the Continental Cross Contact LX 20 (the ones on the vehicle) and the Michelin Latitudes were the recommendations.

    When I got home (curiosity got the better) , I put the tire gauge to the set. It seems like in 15,000 miles, there were app 11.75/12 32nd in remaining 4 tires, aka app projected 60,000 miles per 1/32nds in !!! ??? How that plays out LONGER term really remains to be seen. I am, however a 5,000 miles rotation convert.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    stever said:

    Unlike Russia and especially Venezuela, the Saudi's have a lot of money in storage so they can ride cheap oil for a long time. Kind of like Alaska (another oil state getting hammered), except folks up there love their mega-boondoogle projects so a bust will come. Even NM is getting hit since about 25% of our general fund dollars come from oil and gas. No one seems to be complaining about cheap gas though.

    Re VW - the mystery continues. Their profits probably jumped again with the fall in their car sales. :)

    It would appear on a closer look, VW (Audi pun) is DUMB like a FOX on this issue. But I think Gagrice's reasoning probably makes the most sense, ergo, amp UP the sales on the MOST profitable lines, aka, Audi/Porsche. Yes and given the choice, buy the Touareg (cheaper) :DB)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    problem is we sell a lot of "dirty diesel" overseas, that can't be marketed here anyway.
    gagrice said:

    I wonder if our selling diesel abroad has kept it over priced. It should be cheaper than RUG by a good amount. Even with higher federal taxes and state taxes. If Qatar gets all its Gas to diesel plants rolling it should bring down the World price and make vacationing great here. Rocky is loving his Cruze diesel. Says it is the best car he has ever owned.

    Almost 20k miles in 15 months on our Touareg TDI, and easily the nicest vehicle I have ever owned. When the hybrids or EVs have a full sized AWD SUV with a 750 mile EPA highway rating let me know.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    problem is we sell a lot of "dirty diesel" overseas, that can't be marketed here anyway.

    gagrice said:



    I guess I just assumed we were selling ULSD. Probably not the case. Some crude has a lot more sulfur content, which may be the case with the tar sands we are refining in TX. I know Iranian crude is real low grade with lots of sulfur. Major reason it was easy for US to sanction them. We had some really nice light sweet crude up in the Arctic. Conoco was running it straight out of the ground in their generators.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2014
    We do sell ULSD also--it's not all "dirty diesel" that goes overseas but you can probably guess who gets the dirty stuff.

    Whenever I try to rationalize the price of gas/diesel at the pump I keep going back to the words of GW Bush, when Exxon told him to go stuff it on some oil cleanup matters: "Nobody tells those guys what to do".

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2014
    Seems like they've been talking about it longer than Paris, or maybe I'm thinking of a carless (or truckless) city center.

    London could follow Paris diesel car ban (euronews.com)

    "First, there have been problems with the particle traps - some drivers have removed them because they sometimes don't work properly unless the car is driven hot.

    Second, the diesels are still producing nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which irritates the lungs of people with breathing problems. Diesels make several times more NO2 than petrol cars.

    According to the European Environment Agency, air pollution is the top environmental risk factor for premature death in Europe; it increases the incidence of a wide range of diseases.

    Particulate matter (PM) and ground-level ozone (O3) are the most harmful pollutants."

    Why is diesel now bad news? (BBC)

    In the "stuff that really works" news column, Trucking firms awarded $1 million to reduce diesel engine idling. (madison.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    PANIC (due to not meeting perceived "GOOD" emissions laws) is the driver, pure and simple. I am thinking higher profit and taxation are just some of the hidden agenda items driver. Not enough stones to decommission nuclear power plants? The alternatives would be more costly, generate more pollution, be less efficient. Oh please x 6.

    They did say it straight away this is an OPINION . . Oh and NO bike owners (most popular in Europe) take off their emissions !!!????? Oh please x 8 !!! Most bikes in the US don't have mufflers, let alone EMISSIONS equipment !!! ??? Emissions from RUG/PUG don't cause ANY to the majority of lung irritations? Oh please x 9.

    The takes are totally misleading. This is especially true IF the assumption that RUG/PUG which in the US is 95% PLUS+, use causes NO premature death and does NOT cause the incidence of a wide range of diseases. Oh please x 11. They also cite no linked causality with ANY level of statistical significance ? Oh please x 12.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014

    We do sell ULSD also--it's not all "dirty diesel" that goes overseas but you can probably guess who gets the dirty stuff.

    Whenever I try to rationalize the price of gas/diesel at the pump I keep going back to the words of GW Bush, when Exxon told him to go stuff it on some oil cleanup matters: "Nobody tells those guys what to do".

    "Dirty" diesel is a GROSS misnomer. LSD (Low Sulfur Diesel, 500 ppm/CA 140 ppm) used to be the EPA's MANDATORY standard, pre-Oct 2006.

    Slow news diesel day, albeit, probably more to most expensive in the nation.

    ULSD $ 3.49
    RUG $ 2.89
    MG $ 2.99
    PUG $ 3.09
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Seems like they've been talking about it longer than Paris, or maybe I'm thinking of a carless (or truckless) city center.

    Europeans are a fickle lot at best. Now that there is plenty of oil for making gas let's give diesel the boot. More used, more taxes collected. It is here and everywhere, all about MONEY. I think the Limeys and Frogs will have as much trouble getting people to give up their diesels as the libtards trying to get our guns. What does France have 70% diesel cars? Simple solution go to a poor country claim residence and register your diesel there. They have a pretty open society in the EU.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting take on whether your big car should be diesel (yes) but your small car should be gas.

    Diesel v petrol: cheaper to tax but dearer to maintain (Irish Times)

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    stever said:

    Interesting take on whether your big car should be diesel (yes) but your small car should be gas.

    Diesel v petrol: cheaper to tax but dearer to maintain (Irish Times)

    A HUGE swatch of nuance/s i/are lost in the US translation. I'd be extremely careful to put the (what applies in Ireland) article in US context.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    edited December 2014
    ....
    As a start, let's just look at what it means to take care of your battery. This means don't charge it to more than ~80% of capacity and don't discharge below 20%.
    - This takes the 73 mile range down to 73 X 80% X 80% or 46.7 miles
    Next, let's assume that after 7 years, the capacity is expected to be down to 80% of the new, maximum.
    - This takes the 46.7 miles down to 46.7 X 80% or 37.4 miles for 'battery-kindness"
    What this means is that if you drive the benign EPA driving cycle, you shouldn't buy a Leaf if you expect to need to drive more than 37.4 miles between charges every day. Conveniently, for me, my daily drive between charging opportunities is 37 miles :-)
    The question people really want to know, however, is what normal people will get. Then the question becomes: What is normal. Let me suggest that one view of normal that Paul Scott, for example sees daily are the 99.9% of the people on I-10 that are driving faster than Paul Scott. Let me dock the range by another 80% due to driving a lot faster.
    - This take the 37.4 mile battery-kind range down to 37.4 X 80% = 30 miles

    Now, if you're in a place other than the California beach areas that have real temperatures, you'll need to knock it down another 10% for heavy A/C or heat
    - This takes the 30 miles down to 30 X 90% = 27 miles

    This also means your commute, without charging at work, needs to be less than ~13 miles each way.

    http://www.plugincars.com/real-world-leaf-range-27-38-miles.html
    No big, I was just illustrating how to get the actual costs. I recently went through my spreadsheet I use to record MPG and updated it to add MPGe.

    As to battery protection, the car manufacturers build that in - they don't allow the charge to go above or below a certain percentage. What the driver sees as "100%" is not the full capacity of the battery, and what the driver sees as "0%" is not a drained battery. The federal warranty on the hybrid components is either 8/100K or 10/150K, and they know the components have to last.

    So the range (while an estimate) does not have to be adjusted to to match some calculated "battery saving" percentage.

    For reference, I get about 23 miles from my 2014 C-Max Energi in winter - in summer I can get closer to 30. I think based on EPA it would be around 20. But I do drive it for mileage.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    gagrice said:

    Stevedebi says: My current raw MPG is 84.47, but my MPGe is currently 65.14. Electric costs down here in LA are 17 cents at tier 2 (after 1000 KWH), somewhat less before that. I use peak pricing to estimate my costs. So far my cost per mile is 6.67 cents including energy costs.


    Los Angeles Department of Water and Power is the big gorilla that tells Sacramento to shove their stupid alternative mandates. SDG&E is their kicking boy that is fined for not having as much renewable energy as the wonks in Sac demand. So who gets screwed the consumer. I used 994 KWHs during the hottest month this Summer. My bill surged to $248. Really gets to me when my kids keep their homes in Indiana warm and cool for a fraction of what it costs here. 5.87 per KWH. That said with the cost per mile you posted of 6.67 per mile, would be 14.52 cents in San Diego.

    Nope, those idiots at DWP are also pursuing "green" energy. My bills have gone up a lot in the past few years. I think it is only a matter of time before we start getting rolling blackouts, because the "green" energy sources are unpredictable (wind, solar farms) - and more expensive to boot.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2014
    Lucky you. I'd love to have a utility bill that low.

    Besides, nobody ever said so-called "green energy" was supposed to be cheaper. It's supposed to be "renewable".

    If cheap was the only goal, every municipality would go back to coal.

    The problem is, no one in the past ever charged for the environmental damages associated with various sources of energy.

    So now it's different, and they are charging for it. Think of it as a massive fine for littering. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    A VERY interesting (FORTUNE) take on SUV's (CUV's my sic)

    Why are SUVs so popular? It has nothing to do with gas prices

    by Ben Geier @ben_geier DECEMBER 10, 2014, 11:34 AM EST

    http://fortune.com/2014/12/10/why-are-suvs-so-popular-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-gas-prices/?xid=yahoo_fortune

    Funny how a $4,600 DIFFERENCE ( gassers, CUV vs Sedan) is seen as no big deal.

    ..."Plus, Gutierrez notes, the difference in cost is just not that great either. The CX-5 starts at $21,545; the 3 at $16,945."...

    Yet, anything over PAR for gasser to diesel is seen as an obstacle to vilified.

    Be that as it may, the 14 VW T (Sport) vs TDI is app $3,500. The gasser hybrid is app $15,000 more. The MB 350 vs 250 BT is app MINUS -500.(BT being cheaper) No hybrid like model.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hm, I just got my El Paso Utility bill yesterday and it was $84 - so more that yours.

    Of course my usage was 646 kwh. *Gotta work on that.

    El Pass Utility is 40% nuke so they've already started the PR push about how great a job they are doing. Yep, going for a 15% rate increase request next year. Probably to save some more money for decommissioning costs. (Another 40% is generated from natural gas, and 10% solar. Mixed bag on the other 10%).

    (*met a solar guy today and he was driving @stevedebi's car, and bragging about being able to go 80 on all electric mode. Big issue with the C-Max E for me is that the battery hogs the trunk.)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    News story for @fintail‌ - "The Danish capital is testing systems that inform diesel truck drivers of signal timing to reduce the amount of time they spend stopping and starting at intersections, which saves on fuel" (SlickerCity)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Lucky you. I'd love to have a utility bill that low.

    That is about as low as it goes. Most are in the $90s. We are extremely frugal with shutting lights off. Our 3000sq ft has 56 recessed floods and 8 globes in each bathroom. I have replaced all the Bathroom CFL globes with LED. Costco had G25 on sale about $5 each. I replaced all 24 of them. I do love the instant on and brightness of the LEDs much better than CFL. Less dangerous as well. The floods we use a lot in the kitchen/dining area are also LED. The above bill had NO heat or AC running. Heat is real expensive as we use Propane at $3.29 per gallon equivelant.

    http://www.amazon.com/Feit-LED-Dimmable-Decorative-Bulb/dp/B00EK6L446/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418243838&sr=8-1&keywords=g25+globe+bulb
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,688
    Wow; those tiers are pretty brutal. I feel like we are quite frugal with our electric use, yet our bills are between 750 and 900 KwH monthly. Those would put me off the charts on your tiered system!

    Our cost is about $0.21 / Kwh right now, so we end up paying around $200 a month.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nationwide, the average usage is 900 kwh, so you're right in the norm. We are running 600-ish right now since our heat is propane and we aren't running the electric AC.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    edited December 2014
    Pretty cool, and long overdue. It'd be something to see the traffic "engineer" demographic take some responsibility for the pollution caused by their oftentimes negligent policies and actions. I sometimes think local lights are on a random number generator or something, so maybe it wouldn't work here. And many second tier cities around here are even worse.

    I live in a small place and inexpensive hydro power is common here, my average bill is around $30, I think - I seldom run heat, but I use AC a lot in the summer.
    stever said:

    News story for @fintail‌ - "The Danish capital is testing systems that inform diesel truck drivers of signal timing to reduce the amount of time they spend stopping and starting at intersections, which saves on fuel" (SlickerCity)

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    Let's put ULSD $3.59/RUG $2.89/PUG $3.05 in context

    (@ 15,000 miles per year AVG 24 .1 mpg AVG,I will use 41 mpg for commute)= 622 gals RUG $1,798/ PUG $1,897)

    with some of the cost SPENT on house or LIVING utilities.

    Anecdotally @ 41 mpg, ULSD for 366 gal = $1,314/ 12mo = $ 110 mo/3 persons or $ 37 per person is spent. Since 1 car (15,000 miles) instead of three (45,000 mile) is used, real mpg (x 3 persons) is more like 123 mpg. So for this commute portion of diesel application, we are ok with one driver $ .0876 pmd:F with per individual, or $ .0292 cents per mile driven: FUEL.

    Incidentally and anecdotally, MOST Prius' es are single occupancy.

    I am not sure what that really means. Commute lane/s violations are even LESS enforced than the VIGOROUSLY ENFORCED NOT using turn signal indicators. :D;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Two days ago I drove to town by myself. Usually we're both in the (one) car when it leaves the house. So I'm usually getting 40 mpg.

    I like it. B)

    All these city centers concerned about pollution, diesel or otherwise, could get rid of half the passenger car congestion overnight simply by banning single passenger occupancy. Easy peasey, lol.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Oregon and back.

    On two tanks.

    Towing half way.

    (96 mpg considering there were four in the Ram).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    stever said:

    Two days ago I drove to town by myself. Usually we're both in the (one) car when it leaves the house. So I'm usually getting 40 mpg.

    I like it. B)

    All these city centers concerned about pollution, diesel or otherwise, could get rid of half the passenger car congestion overnight simply by banning single passenger occupancy. Easy peasey, lol.

    Yep to use another concept, it comes under "Red Herring". They are not about to do it for a plethora of reasons. There is another study that is almost universally ignored, indicating that 40% + city traffic congestion being caused by looking for a parking space.

    To my way of thinking, one is FAR better off weening oneself AWAY from having to wanting to do stuff in a city.

    They are not going to let one get too far off the AVG MPG without paying SEVERE PREMIUMS.

    So for example, @ 40 mpg, Oregon and CA think YOU pay way too little taxation. (AVG is still @ 24.1) Both states are considering per mile driven taxation. The nexus of course is a NATIONAL implementation. I severely doubt they will cancel per gal taxations and sales tax, IF they implement the new taxation scheme. Since the drop in the price per barrel of oil, there have been calls for a RAISE to the (already high %) fuel tax.

    While I have liked cars for a very long time, I am working to keep as few as possible. The few I do keep, work to justify them for use in the business sense.

    What goes on opaquely, lacking are the equivalent energy uses and costs (overhead and FIXED) to effect a useful comparison between car/no car in a city.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Two days ago I drove to town by myself. Usually we're both in the (one) car when it leaves the house. So I'm usually getting 40 mpg.

    I like it. B)

    All these city centers concerned about pollution, diesel or otherwise, could get rid of half the passenger car congestion overnight simply by banning single passenger occupancy. Easy peasey, lol.


    99% of the time my wife and I go where ever together. I can see a huge market for blow up dolls if a city were to mandate double occupancy. On our rare trips through Los Angeles, we have the HOV lane mostly to ourselves. I think a lot of people avoid the HOVs as getting out is not so easy if you get stuck behind some jerk going 60 MPH in a Prius or Leaf. Most of the time it is 70-75 MPH smooth sailing.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    stever said:

    Oregon and back.

    On two tanks.

    Towing half way.

    (96 mpg considering there were four in the Ram).

    Right, I am sure you would normally take TWO or more RAMS ! ;):D

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Depends on how your two kids behave, lol.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    HO ! HO ! HO !??? Merry Xmas !!

    Less heating oil use? (possible further fall of ULSD prices?) ;) (natural gas and propane predictions?)

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/drop-in-heating-costs-could-help-fund-santa-s-visit-this-winter-204916203.html

    OIL armageddon should have happened 100 years ago?

    We've Been Incorrectly Predicting Peak Oil For Over a Century

    Matt Novak

    http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/weve-been-incorrectly-predicting-peak-oil-for-over-a-ce-1668986354
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    HUGE weather days ! One to two feet of snow (@ altitude 5,000 ft) in the CA Sierra Mountains ! Heavy rains (for this area) San Francisco Bay Area.

    Slow news diesel days.

    Local diesel price $3.39

    RUG $ 3.09
    MG $ 3.19
    PUG $ 3.29
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nice to see "normal" price differentials for a change.

    "At the Port of Oakland, we measured dramatic reductions of nitrogen oxides and black carbon PM, indicating a large degree of success which should translate into local improvements in air quality, especially as more trucks on the road use these technologies,"

    Air pollution down thanks to California's regulation of diesel trucks (phys.org)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    stever said:

    Nice to see "normal" price differentials for a change.

    "At the Port of Oakland, we measured dramatic reductions of nitrogen oxides and black carbon PM, indicating a large degree of success which should translate into local improvements in air quality, especially as more trucks on the road use these technologies,"

    Air pollution down thanks to California's regulation of diesel trucks (phys.org)

    Indeed I wish the Bay Area prices mirrored more closely the cheaper fuel prices in the rest of the nation.

    As the article indicated, diesel (big rig) trucks run for decades and I am sure the majority of those trucks have little to no emissions controls (relative to late model passenger vehicle fleet diesels, i.e..,). So really what has brought down the emissions the most that is a nexus to diesel big rigs and the diesel passenger vehicle fleet is ULSD or 15 ppm sulfur standard 5 to 10 ppm nominally delivered @ the pumps.

    This of course does nothing for the 25,000 ppm bunker oil (unmitigated ) emissions emitted by the ocean going ships the diesel rigs service. The area is also ringed/triangulated by both the Oakland and San Francisco Airports. Benicia/Martinez is also home to OIL refineries !!!! It is also grossly misleading to then JUMP to the 100,000 US premature death rate !!!!

    I think that a case can NOT be made for the LOCAL Bay Area premature death rates due to those diesel big rigs, bunker oil emissions as well as air transportation. This is to also leave out the fact that this is a MAJOR GASSER commute cross roads, aka known as the MAZE. Roads are intertwined like spaghetti.

    So for example, one would expect Port of Oakland employees (immediate area) should be dropping like flies after an insecticide fogging. Funny not even a WORD devoted to that !!!! ??? Indeed the measuring teams take NO haz mat precautions, if the pictures are not faked !!!! ?????
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2014
    New Diesel Engine

    Might be a good idea for a city car.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,688
    edited December 2014
    ruking1 said:

    HUGE weather days ! One to two feet of snow (@ altitude 5,000 ft) in the CA Sierra Mountains ! Heavy rains (for this area) San Francisco Bay Area.

    Slow news diesel days.

    Local diesel price $3.39

    RUG $ 3.09
    MG $ 3.19
    PUG $ 3.29

    I paid $3.56/gal for RUG last night and felt pretty good about that! Lowest price paid (locally) in YEARS! Diesel finally slipped under $4/gal, but not by much ($3.96 as of a couple days ago).

    If these depressed oil prices continue, I expect that at SOME point we will see significantly lower diesel prices here. So, I'm waiting to completely fill my 1000-gal tank for the first time EVER. Perhaps it will dip under $3? If so, I'm in. I put 650 in it for this winter, so waiting also helps to drain off some more of that stock, which was, I think, somewhere around $3.76/gal in September.

    Given the severe impact on the state budget, I should probably put any plans to swap out my Fiesta on hold for a while. I have to expect that this is going to hit me in the pocket book at some point in the near future. So, what would it take for me to buy a diesel now? Oil prices >$90/barrel! LOL

    :(



    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    XwesX says: Given the severe impact on the state budget, I should probably put any plans to swap out my Fiesta on hold for a while. I have to expect that this is going to hit me in the pocket book at some point in the near future. So, what would it take for me to buy a diesel now? Oil prices >$90/barrel! LOL


    I used to try and explain to people in the lower 48 how cheap oil was not good for ALL Americans. I remember well the drastic wage cuts of the mid 1980s when the price of oil went in the toilet. Someone is still making lots of money on Gas/diesel. The end of 2008 when oil dropped to around $65 per barrel, RUG was down to $1.57 in San Diego. Today lowest price is Costco at $2.59 and they have diesel at $2.89. Still a buck a gallon over what it should be based on oil prices.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,688
    True enough, Gary! The oil companies will make good money on oil regardless of the price. For the rest of the players, that's not necessarily the case. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    I am SO looking forward to $ 1.85 per gal ULSD and lower !!!! ;)

    Basically the current market dynamics have proven what I have been saying all along about MASSIVE abundance in energy to be true. More importantly, the dynamics were hard to hide any longer. It is akin to sweeping 1,000 #'s of dirt under a 10# RUG. (no pun intended)
    All this due to only app 1% OVERSUPPLY. Can you IMAGINE the even much lower pricing when RUG/PUG becomes even less a % than it is now (@ 95% (9% I have read is PUG) with 5% diesel) ?? Right now EV/batteries lithium/hydrogen, etc. are proverbially not measurable. % wise.

    I say legislatively and regulatorilly EPA should do the forward thing and craft regulations for approval of 100% bio diesel engines.

    Why lose the taxpayer sponsored $$'s B 's paid for the high mpg (happened to be ALL DIESELS) engine shoot out under the Clinton Administration???? Three oems came up (independently of one another) with 3 prototype DIESEL engines getting HIGH MPG !!! ???? (Thank the Europeans this was not exactly rocket science) keep in mind the biggie three could have consulted OUR rocket scientists !!! ???

    33% PVF diesels will free up the fuel market place. 100% biodiesel engined can bring new fuell sources (like algae) and old waste product waste streams (like sewer plants and garbage dumps) for biodiesel production !! Let different energy sources be part of the fleet "PIE". !!!! The competition is good for the market/s !!!

    It is true there are whole segments that are feasting on the $1.00 PLUS OVERPRICE per gal, based on lower oil prices.

    More towards reality, the local Chevron (selling ULSD) has a tie into the local grocery (chain), so I got an extra .20 cent a gal discount !!!

    In driving around the local area, I got a look at some of the infrastructures damages due to the recent rains. LOADS of signals out. This necessitated a lot of 4 way stops.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,502
    @ruking1‌

    I hope you and your family are OK and haven't been affected by the mudslides and other weather related problems. Be safe.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    nyccarguy said:

    @ruking1‌

    I hope you and your family are OK and haven't been affected by the mudslides and other weather related problems. Be safe.


    Yes, all is well !! I appreciate that very much ! At this writing, I have not heard from ANY of the folks we all know, that have suffered, .... more ill effects. Hopefully it remains NOBODY !!

    Neighbors in the snow report no ill effects and some are happy, happy, happy, about the first major dustings of snow. .5 ft (at 6,225 ft) and up to 3 ft @ the tops of Heavenly Valley Ski Mountain (app 10,067 ft) . Weather is in and out of freezing for much snow to stick.

    No chaiin controls CURRENTLY in effect !! YIPPEE !!

    Here (hopefully ) is ONE CA Trans live camera view from 7,427 ft.

    US-50 - South Lake Tahoe : Echo Summit
    Weather Forecast as of 08:52:00 PST on 2014-12-13 :
    High: 35°F
    Low: 24°F
    Sunrise: 07:11 PST
    Sunset: 16:39 PST

    4th red cam icon, just SOUTH of Lake Tahoe

    http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist3/departments/traffic/cameras/

    Sacramento, CA on GasBuddy.com shows cheapest top 6 USLD $ 2.88 to $3.15 per gal.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    Pretty SLOW diesel news day in the flats. (despite the carnage in the price per barrel of oil.)

    USLD @ 3.29

    RUG $ 2.99,
    MGUG $ 3.09,
    PUG $ 3.19

    So while I hope it lasts for @ least a year, AND even hits my delusional $1.85 per gal, my gut tells me no joy x 2 !! LOT less time, SO enjoy it while one can !!

    Again for 15,000 miles a price of $3.29 (down from $3.99) will save .70 cents per gal.( @ 15,000 miles/41 mpg = 366 gal * .70 cents=) MINUS- $ 256. per year (17.5%)

    It makes me wonder why BO POTUS waited so long to put the "sanctions" aka choke holds on Russia and the usual folks who hate us !! ??

    He should also be celebrating the USA "FRACKERS," rather than vilifying them !!! THEY make it possible, rather than sending in (OUR) TROOPS !!!! As if nobody has noticed nobody else will send in theirs !!!!!

    Dem's want to KILL biofuels, one being diesel fuels ???

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-tax-breaks-in-danger-if-congress-doesnt-act-2014-12-08?siteid=yhoof2
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2014
    I didn't see any lower than $3.39 for diesel around here today. Saw some the other day for $3.29 though. Cheapest RUG spotted today was $2.15, but Costco has it for $1.98 up in ABQ.

    BC Ferries will eliminate fuel surcharge this week as price of diesel drops (vancouversun.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Diesel for $2.83 at several ARCO stations. Costco holding at $2.89. Costco cheapest RUG $2.45 ,most stations. Diesel under $3 pretty well spread around the county now. Need to make a run out to the desert just to use some cheap diesel. B)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My road trip to TN is tentatively set for the last day of the year. That means that Putin will invade Germany on the 28th. :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2014
    gagrice said:

    Diesel for $2.83 at several ARCO stations. Costco holding at $2.89. Costco cheapest RUG $2.45 ,most stations. Diesel under $3 pretty well spread around the county now. Need to make a run out to the desert just to use some cheap diesel. B)

    Yes, in my neck of the "woods" aka local DIESEL prices (RUG/PUG also) are more a practical function of CONVENIENCE. Cheaper prices are along the ways to destinations. So right now even in more northern CA, $2.85 is doable.
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