Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1…298299301303304…473

Comments

  • Options
    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fact is all the recycling and composting and buying hybrids or "green cars" isn't going to alleviate Global Warming one bit. It's just a game they're all playing so as to sleep easier in their beds. But the giant wheels of fate are already in motion, so .....belt up!
    fintail said:

    I think "do as I say" applies to most of the shrill sensitive eco weenie politico group in every country. Everyone else can live in a cave and bike it, but don't take their ill gotten large houses and vehicles. Who's pocket are they in? Idiot Eurocrats can't keep up their guilted save the world ideal without lots of revenue.

  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Sleep in their undeserved unearned overly posh beds.

    Funny how much of this is coming out of France, when France once got their ruling class under control via less than subtle means. Maybe they need to do so again.

    Oops, that was crass. What am I saying, "maybe", :)
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Fact is all the recycling and composting and buying hybrids or "green cars" isn't going to alleviate Global Warming one bit. It's just a game they're all playing so as to sleep easier in their beds. But the giant wheels of fate are already in motion, so .....belt up!

  • Options
    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    gagrice said:

    A couple points on the Mazda6 sold in the UK. The base diesel gets combined 72.4 MPG the base gas model gets 51.4 MPG both Imperial gallons. That is significant in Europe where many places sell diesel (ULSD) below petrol (RUG).

    I am not interested in towing, though the Touareg is tow rated at 7700 lbs. I am interested in smooth highway driving in the 70-80 MPH range. I like the fact that the Touareg TDI has enough torque that it rarely needs to shift even into 7th gear on the longest uphill grades out on our Western Interstate highways. I always compare it to the Sequoia with gas V8 and 5 speed transmission. Even slightest uphill grades were too much to maintain 75 MPH, the average speed on Interstate 8, 10, 15, 20 etc. With cruise control on it would drop to 65 MPH than drop into 4th gear and the engine would scream getting it back to 75 MPH. I got to where I just did not use CC. With the Touraeg, just set CC on the speed you want and it does not vary 2 MPH up or down hill. Just a superior vehicle in so many ways. And the Sequoia was not cheap when we bought it in 2007. We got $10k off of MSRP and it was still $57k cash out the door. Probably my last Japanese vehicle. Best highway mileage with the Sequoia cruising at a sleepy 65 MPH was 17 MPG. If I keep the Touareg in the 70-75 MPH range it gives me an easy 30 MPG and as much as 32 MPG. 21k miles average 26.6 MPG at 14.1 cents per mile. Sequoia had 36k when we sold it and average cost per mile was 21.7 cents. I am tickled with 35% lower fuel cost. And my wife's grand daughter is tickled with the Sequoia she got way below wholesale book with warranty still on it.

    I am not surprised that you are getting much better mpg with the Touareg.
    Sequoia Weight 6,025 pounds Exterior body width 80" Exterior height 75"
    Touareg Weight 5,060 pounds Exterior body width 76" Exterior height 67"

    The Sequoia weighs more, has a much bigger frontal area (more drag at speed) and only has a 5 speed transmission. I would wager to say that half of the mpg improvement is due to the reduced weight, reduced frontal area and the more modern 8 spd trans. The transmission alone is worth 5-10% improvement.

    Your 2007 Sequoia had 4.6L motor (Horsepower 273-hp @ 5,400 rpm Torque 314 lbs.-ft. @ 3,400 rpm) Yes? I am sure the 2008 would have been much better on the inclines with the bigger motor (Displacement: 346 cu in, 5663cc Power (SAE net): 381 bhp @ 5600 rpm Torque (SAE net): 401 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm) and 6-speed automatic.

    I am familiar with the long uphill grades you describe. Drove a Camry (2007 with 5spd auto) to the west a few years ago. The car, which was perfectly adequate here, struggled to get up the mountains. Spent a fair amount of time at 70-75 mph and 4,000 rpm. Going up the inclines was a lot of WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :) But I had fun...

    I am also not surprised you think the Touareg is a superior vehicle. Vehicles have improved a great deal since 2007. This is why I like to get a new vehicle every few years. The improvements keep on coming. Some of the new nanny aids are a bit disconcerting, however. So far we have been able to buy a vehicle without Eyesight, adaptive cruise control, a built in Breathalyzer (don't drink and drive, so it would be useless) or a brain wave scanner!! But that topic is post better suited for another forum.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am also not surprised you think the Touareg is a superior vehicle. Vehicles have improved a great deal since 2007.

    Some vehicles may have improved. The Sequoia mileage is worse. The 2008-2014 show 12.6-15.6 MPG. And they are uglier than a mud fence. I miss the extra room in back. However I had to pull out the 3rd row seats to use it. Not laid out well. The nanny devices on the Mercedes was part of the negatives in my mind. I don't use cruise in heavy traffic, so adaptive CC would be a waste of money. I wish the NAV was equal to Google maps. Blue tooth for the cell phone is handy. I also wish it had 17 inch wheels and tires vs the 19 inch. I think that costs a couple miles per gallon. Overall, I think Toyota is living on their past laurels. The latest Sequoia has lower towing capacity than my Touareg.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Getting the full gambit of weather ! Latest yippee, 12 to 18 in of snow (yes that might sound insane in other parts of the country) !

    http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_27620069/late-winter-storms-spread-across-areas-california-southwest

    ULSD $2.99


    RUG $2.89. MG $2.99, PUG $3.09
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Fact is all the recycling and composting and buying hybrids or "green cars" isn't going to alleviate Global Warming one bit. It's just a game they're all playing so as to sleep easier in their beds. But the giant wheels of fate are already in motion, so .....belt up!

    fintail said:

    I think "do as I say" applies to most of the shrill sensitive eco weenie politico group in every country. Everyone else can live in a cave and bike it, but don't take their ill gotten large houses and vehicles. Who's pocket are they in? Idiot Eurocrats can't keep up their guilted save the world ideal without lots of revenue.

    As they ALWAYS have been!!!

  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    Good, maybe Alaska will get a dump before the dog races start. Bethel has a freezing rain warning but it's cold in Tanana with a few inches predicted next week. Shorts weather here today. B)

    "The British government rejected calls on Sunday to raise taxes on diesel vehicles to reduce air pollution but said it will consider a national network of low-emission zones.

    Britain has consistently failed to meet European Union limits on nitrogen dioxide, which is produced by diesel engines and is harmful to respiratory systems, as well as another pollutant, known as diesel particular matter."

    UK government rejects calls for higher diesel tax to cut pollution (businessinsider.com)
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    gagrice said:

    I am also not surprised you think the Touareg is a superior vehicle. Vehicles have improved a great deal since 2007.

    Some vehicles may have improved. The Sequoia mileage is worse. The 2008-2014 show 12.6-15.6 MPG. And they are uglier than a mud fence. I miss the extra room in back. However I had to pull out the 3rd row seats to use it. Not laid out well. The nanny devices on the Mercedes was part of the negatives in my mind. I don't use cruise in heavy traffic, so adaptive CC would be a waste of money. I wish the NAV was equal to Google maps. Blue tooth for the cell phone is handy. I also wish it had 17 inch wheels and tires vs the 19 inch. I think that costs a couple miles per gallon. Overall, I think Toyota is living on their past laurels. The latest Sequoia has lower towing capacity than my Touareg.

    Yes, the full monty of "do dah's", also drives up the prices (unnecessarily, for my .02's and nickels) and can be "another thing to go wrong". This also can drive up the cost of repairs.

    I have not even TESTED the C/C's in the 12 VW Touareg and 14 MB 250 BT, or in 70,000 miles ! ? I guess @ some time, I should test BOTH. While I am at it, I probably should test the 09 VW Jetta TDI's C/C, again haven't tested in (another) 91,000 miles. The only thing that I am even halfway glad about is Bluetooth. However as a rule, across ALL makes and models, most CAR drivers do not rate user friendliness and ease of use well, for bluetooth !!!

    As you indicated, some to most of these options are of dubious utility AND in addition drive UP the costs of operation as in 17 in tires vs 19 in tires. Longer term, getting higher % value from options to almost mandatory options, on resale is specious @ best.

    I have been a (long term ) fan of Toyota's products, sans the 1985 Camry). I doubt right now that its current line of gasser products could entice me to switch (given like model diesels, which they do not have), even as Lexus AND Toyota lead the markets in reliability.
  • Options
    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    gagrice said:

    I am also not surprised you think the Touareg is a superior vehicle. Vehicles have improved a great deal since 2007.


    If you do not like the Jetta, it would be silly to buy one even if it was a LOT cheaper. You live where they choose to gouge diesel users. In CA they gouge everyone equally. In San Diego diesel and RUG are priced very closely. Today average price for RUG is $3.39 average price for ULSD is S3.29. My go to Costco is $2.95 for diesel and $3.13 for RUG up 46 cents in less than 2 weeks.

    By the way if I owned a gas guzzling F150 I would not brag about it either. 113 owners reporting on the 2014 with an average of 15.6 MPG. The Domestic PU trucks are not much better on mileage today than they were 25 years ago. I don't buy the BS on the EPA website at all. My Ranger V6 was a gutless gas guzzling PIG. My Nissan Frontier V6 has good power but still a gas hog. In my opinion it is part of the government plan. Block FE diesel midsized PU trucks as long as possible. We are the only country in the WORLD still wasting gas in small PU trucks.

    http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Costco_Gas_Stations/Chula_Vista/75686/index.aspx

    Funny you should mention the issue of gouging diesel owners. The spread between diesel and RUG has narrowed a fair amount here in ND. At first I thought maybe the new refinery in Dickinson had started up. This article http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/opinion/editorials/3690037-our-view-innovation-byproducts-next-step-nd-energy points out that it has yet to start. "Dakota Prairie Refining, in the final stages of construction and testing ...". The lower diesel prices are more likely related to the lower demand as activity in the Bakken has decreased. When the refinery starts making diesel the prices should decrease even more. When activity in the oil field picks up I would expect the price of diesel to increase again. Good old supply and demand...

    I would agree that it is unfortunate that we do not have a small pick-up with a diesel in it. A small 2.0 liter diesel would work well in that application. Like I said before, it is all about pulling out tree stumps... I seem to remember there being an import tax on PU at one point. Not sure if it is still around. Another issue is that only VW and MB seem to have invested the tech to get diesels in the U.S. Most other manufacturers gave up in the 80s.
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/diesels.jsp Also, around here people won't even look at a small truck. People love their full sized trucks. I suspect it is the same in Texas where they sell a billion or so a year. The first thing someone in the oil patch, making the big bucks, buys is a $40,000 + truck. I read an article a few years ago where a young 17 year old kid's main goal in life was to work in the oil patch so he could buy a new Ford truck...
  • Options
    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    stever said:

    And if he wrecked the Altima, what would be the best replacement?

    I would buy a Lamborghini Veneno.
  • Options
    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    gagrice said:



    With your taste running toward the most bang for your buck, I would buy the Sonata long before I would consider the Altima. You get a much better warranty for starters. More interior room and a real automatic transmission and not a cheap rubber band drive system. And across the board about $1000 less for the Hyundai.

    I like my rubber band transmission. :) It really works well. Of course I should mention that the computer in the car is reporting an average speed of 14 mph since I last added some petrol. That figure includes a bit of idling to warm the car in the sub-zero temps. In the summer the average speed will creep up to about 17 mph. I'll bet you didn't know that people drove that slow. The speed limit for my entire trip to work is 25 mph and there is never any bumper to bumper traffic. Just 4 traffic lights :)

    Last year I drove a 14 Sonata while on vacation. It was a decent car. Plenty of power for dealing with the Tampa traffic. The 2015 Sonata would be on my short list of cars to look at if I needed to replace the Altima.
  • Options
    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    stever said:

    I liked a house here while we were shopping but my wife vetoed it because of potential pump noise - we don't mind ag but this place backed up to a canal (we have chickens, goats, horses nearby and the backyard neighbor is getting a "dwarf" milk cow soon).

    But you have to watch the irrigation systems around here. The branch lines to the fields from the canals are often filled with pumped water and diesel generators usually run the pumps. There was a pump just on the other side of the back yard.

    That could go away, although I don't know if the replacements are going to be any quieter. There are plenty of electric pumps around too, when there's power handy. Switching over the next decase hould free up a bit of fuel though.

    Diesel Braces For An Avalanche Of Solar Water Pumps (cleantechnica.com)

    Slow news day for sure, but it's fun reading about "disruptive" tech.

    Solar is making waves as it gets cheaper. I usual visit this site every few weeks to see where the tech is at - http://solartoday.org/

    We have recently been talking about where to retire. Florida is on the list as is building a new home. I started thinking about going solar on the home and getting an electric car as a second vehicle. Seems like a good fit. The primary vehicle would still be petrol based as we will want to make some longer trips. In the mean time I plan to keep our options open. It is good to have options.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    avalon02wh said:

    gagrice said:



    With your taste running toward the most bang for your buck, I would buy the Sonata long before I would consider the Altima. You get a much better warranty for starters. More interior room and a real automatic transmission and not a cheap rubber band drive system. And across the board about $1000 less for the Hyundai.

    I like my rubber band transmission. :) It really works well. Of course I should mention that the computer in the car is reporting an average speed of 14 mph since I last added some petrol. That figure includes a bit of idling to warm the car in the sub-zero temps. In the summer the average speed will creep up to about 17 mph. I'll bet you didn't know that people drove that slow. The speed limit for my entire trip to work is 25 mph and there is never any bumper to bumper traffic. Just 4 traffic lights :)

    Last year I drove a 14 Sonata while on vacation. It was a decent car. Plenty of power for dealing with the Tampa traffic. The 2015 Sonata would be on my short list of cars to look at if I needed to replace the Altima.
    6 speed DSG, 8 speed A/T, 6 speed M/T, all work well ! So to me, the real question is the utility (of rubber band like transmissions, default,) same for the DSG's on a diesel engine combination. They even work well in 18 mph avg speed commute slug. This is a commute norm, so I don't know why you said this. ..."I'll bet you didn't know that people drove that slow."... You would have lost monies.

    The times for the normal commute we have used the 09 VW Jetta TDI in , (27 miles) can range from 45 min (rare) to mostly 1.5 to 2 hours. (I am sure you can calculate average speeds) for a DSG.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    avalon02wh said:

    stever said:

    And if he wrecked the Altima, what would be the best replacement?

    I would buy a Lamborghini Veneno.
    Yes ! And ... here are the sounds of hot air.

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9dwpfNU0WgA89D7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Lamborghini+Veneno.&vid=83de291ee5aa1eb7e1ac90f1a622109c&l=7:41&turl=http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=VN.607986396858155781&pid=15.1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYMkTznrJb4&[non-permissible content removed]=Lamborghini+Veneno+SOUND%21+Start+Up+%2B+Driving+On+The+Road%21&c=0&sigr=11bhomg91&sigt=11pp3icft&sigi=11rg1gae4&age=1383311419&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=aaplw&tt=b

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9dwpfNU0WgA9ND7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZ2N0cmxpBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMg--?p=Lamborghini+Veneno.&vid=73fc18eb1ae136e0ceb9a361a72222d2&l=3:56&turl=http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=VN.608036592137801021&pid=15.1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te_HMhL40y0&[non-permissible content removed]=Lamborghini+Veneno+SOUND+-+Start+Up+and+REVS%21%21&c=1&sigr=11bms3d4h&sigt=11ev4hl14&sigi=11rolgsn1&age=1365988636&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=aaplw&tt=b
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    avalon02wh said:


    Solar is making waves as it gets cheaper.

    I don't really follow the solar sites but a friend sent me to SolarChargedDriving the other day. One of the lead stories is about how solar isn't getting any cheaper because the subsidities are going away. Big utility is trying to kill solar but it's going to be a losing battle for them, even though the fossil fuel subsidies are many, many times bigger than solar. The fight makes for some strange bedfellows. :D (Bloomberg) The Greens have long worked with the NRA to preserve "hunting grounds" but who would have guessed the Sierra Club would sit down with the Tea Party to thumb their noses at (a couple of) the Koch brothers.

    Pick the right spot in Florida and your EV will be a golf car. Be careful though - the retirees trick them out so much they cost more than a Leaf or Volt.

    "Supply and demand" says diesel prices should be going back down. Who knows if Bloomberg's bears have a clue though.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    5 New Cars That You Can Afford in 2015
    Erika Rawes Twitter MORE ARTICLES
    March 01, 2015

    Defacto, two "affordable" diesels in the mix !

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/5-new-cars-that-a-middle-class-worker-can-afford-for-2015.html/5/
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    stever said:

    avalon02wh said:


    Solar is making waves as it gets cheaper.

    I don't really follow the solar sites but a friend sent me to SolarChargedDriving the other day. One of the lead stories is about how solar isn't getting any cheaper because the subsidities are going away. Big utility is trying to kill solar but it's going to be a losing battle for them, even though the fossil fuel subsidies are many, many times bigger than solar. The fight makes for some strange bedfellows. :D (Bloomberg) The Greens have long worked with the NRA to preserve "hunting grounds" but who would have guessed the Sierra Club would sit down with the Tea Party to thumb their noses at (a couple of) the Koch brothers.

    Pick the right spot in Florida and your EV will be a golf car. Be careful though - the retirees trick them out so much they cost more than a Leaf or Volt.

    "Supply and demand" says diesel prices should be going back down. Who knows if Bloomberg's bears have a clue though.
    No less a money man than Warren Buffet has said solar/wind energy makes absolutely NO sense without FED/STATE/LOCAL/ETC tax credits/write offs/IRS private rulings. So the real "GOLD mines" are indeed the subsidies. To state the obvious, load up on the "gold mines, " not necessarily the ev. But then the real money man, PUTIN digs for oil and gas !

    Diesel? The IRS crafted a $1,500 tax CREDIT for the 2009 VW VW Jetta TDI, which by way of nexus paid for the American made (NY state) emissions equipment. So after the "best" deal, the IRS tax credit was a nice "discount".

  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Last I looked Warren was making a lot of money moving crude in his trains. So he's got a bit of bias methinks. :)
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Off topic diesel, but might be an indication of why ADVANTAGE diesel ! ?

    Senate Bill Introduced To End Ethanol Mandate For Gasoline
    Green Car Reports By Stephen Edelstein
    February 27, 2015 7:30 AM

    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/senate-bill-introduced-end-ethanol-mandate-gasoline-123009864.html
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's amazing! (Dems & Reps working together I mean).

    The initial legislation should have included a sunset provision in the first place.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    stever said:

    Last I looked Warren was making a lot of money moving crude in his trains. So he's got a bit of bias methinks. :)

    The two are NOT mutually exclusive ! It might be a good reason the Keystone pipeline legislation got suspended animation ( 6 years of Obama administration) status and got one of his VERY rare OBAMA veto's.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    Well, I have a little bit of pipeline stock and as always, follow the money. :p

    Keystone reminds me of the TransAlaska Pipeline - half of Congress and the administration wanted that to go through and skip all the review processes (which is still ongoing for Keystone). Spiro broke the tie, NEPA was bypassed, and it was boom times. For a while. The housing bust in the 80s was a big blip but now who knows if they'll every fill up the pipe again. May be TAPS for it (a little inside joke for @gagrice1‌ and @xwesx‌ there :D ).

    Like GW, the news never stops for diesel, although it's been a couple of weeks since a big "anti" story hit the papers.

    California scientists link tiny particles in car exhaust to heart disease (newsok.com)

    I keep mentioning all these particulate stories to my diesel-hating wife, yet she still won't let me replace the gas stovetop for something better, like induction. And so it goes. :)
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The TransAlaska pipeline has gone far beyond its intended lifespan. A big share of it has been replaced. At least two of the pump stations have been taken off line. The flow is still over half a million barrels a day. A lot more than was estimated to be in the field. Now with NPR into production and the fields moving both East and West, I would say you could count on at least another 50 years of oil from the Arctic. My kids tell me they have turned down offers on their house in Wasilla double the HUD price they paid in 2008, when the AK housing market was in the doldrums. As you know AK is usually on a different cycle than the rest of the USA. This bubble got AK as well with all the sub prime foreclosures.

    The Anchorage housing bubble started in 1980 and crashed in about 1985 when the price of oil dropped from $32 a barrel to around $12. It was still in the dumps during the early 1990s. With a building boom in the late 1990s. This current drop in oil price does not seem to be having the same effect in Alaska as in the lower 48 fields.

    TAPS may be on its final days. I think a new Trans Canada pipeline is likely. Which would tie into Keystone XL when it is completed. And it will be completed. Canadian greed will assure the exploitation of the second largest known oil reserves in the tar sands. If I was king those against oil production would not be allowed to own any vehicle that depended on fossil fuel. They should be the first forced to live in caves. That would include any form of transportation that fossil fuel was used in its manufacture.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    The scar from Valdez to Prudhoe is supposed to be "rehabilitated" when they shut down the pipeline. Does anyone really believe that will ever happen? And if it does, I'm sure it'll be the taxpayers who'll wind up on the hook for it.

    >If I was king those against oil production would not be allowed to own any vehicle that depended on fossil fuel.

    That could actually increase EV adoption lots faster than subsidies. :) And there was a hermit who lived in a cave about 4 miles from here for many years....
  • Options
    jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    ruking1 said:

    5 New Cars That You Can Afford in 2015
    Erika Rawes Twitter MORE ARTICLES
    March 01, 2015

    Defacto, two "affordable" diesels in the mix !

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/5-new-cars-that-a-middle-class-worker-can-afford-for-2015.html/5/

    I read the article, they didn't mention the diesel models of the Golf and Jetta as the affordable choice.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    It's in the quote. However you can also look @ Edmunds.com diesels Golf and Jetta to see what you may be looking for, say, start with MSRP's to see differences.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That could actually increase EV adoption lots faster than subsidies. :) And there was a hermit who lived in a cave about 4 miles from here for many years....

    Be tough building any mode of transportation without burning fossil fuel. Even the solar panels or wind gensets require a lot of energy to manufactured. I just find it short sighted to think we can EVER do away with all fossil fuel. Can you imagine trying to forge steel with a wood burning furnace? I love new and inventive forms of alternative energy. I just don't like paying 4 times as much for the energy so some wonk in Sacramento can look green.

    Have you visited La Cueva? So many great stories like that one.

  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    ..."That could actually increase EV adoption lots faster than subsidies. :) And there was a hermit who lived in a cave about 4 miles from here for many years...."...

    Well no !! Look how long it took gasser hybrids to get to less than 2% of the PVF and it does NOTHING/ZERO/NADA to get OFF RUG ! Hard to talk environmental religious fuel conversion when the ANSWER has been 95% + % RUG/PUG? The alternative (diesel) fuel has been vilified, for easily a biblical generation and there has been, is and remains no will for biodiesel, B100 specification PVF engines. diesel and bio diesel removes the need for RUG/PUG and enlarges many pathways, other than searching for a single motherlode source.

    EV take rates are not even measurable against the 265.6 M PVF. The Volt is a $40k + offering that should be more like $15k, IF it were a segments, Corolla, Civic, etc. So customers are not fighting each other for the inventory are they? Take away governmental write offs, tax credits, etc. and EV would drop even LOWER than immeasurable.

    We live close to the Tesla factory and like to think it has a local (business) multiplier effect ! Hopefully that was true for the Toyota Tacoma when GM/Toyota owned the factory. But @ $85k +, I'd consider one after hitting a $325 M lottery.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    @gagrice, just been to the cave once but I see that "rock" whenever I drive home. It's on our "company tour" so we'll be back to it again soon. The solar guy is coming Wednesday, but we're having company for the two weeks after that so it'll be the end of March before we get a handle on their numbers. Probably $20k out of pocket with ~$7k credits. My wife wants to go with fewer panels - I want the gold Cadillac on the roof naturally. :)
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    (Again defacto diesel) Passat 2015 European Car Of The Year !

    http://news.yahoo.com/video/volkswagen-passat-european-car-210337938.html
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    More accurate I think to say that the Passat, with it's ten available petrol and diesel engines, won car of the year. (automotiveworld.com)
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    stever said:

    More accurate I think to say that the Passat, with it's ten available petrol and diesel engines, won car of the year. (automotiveworld.com)

    Well, I wanted to keep it below the TMI radar, as you can probably include more 5/6/7 speed M/T's to that mix also. I also think they will begin to implement 7/8/9/10 speed DSG's. I almost think (semi custom) made to order has a good chance to be the new frontier.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The scar from Valdez to Prudhoe is supposed to be "rehabilitated" when they shut down the pipeline. Does anyone really believe that will ever happen? And if it does, I'm sure it'll be the taxpayers who'll wind up on the hook for it.

    Kind of like San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS), operated by Southern California Edison. The utility profited from it since 1968, and now it is shut down and the consumers will have to pay the $4 billion to dismantle it. We are doing the same with $billion in Wind and Solar plants that will have an even shorter life span than the Nukes. 20 years and gone. The wind and solar plants built in the late 1970s and 80s are now laying waste and an eyesore across the countryside on Interstate 10 heading into Palm Springs. By contrast the HUGE coal operation out at 4 corners has been producing far more electricity at a far lower price since 1963. The only reason they have shut down parts of it is our current Coal policy. You can bet as soon as the Wind and Solar subsidies dry up the wind and solar facilities will head into disrepair and become an additional blight on the landscape. You can drive out Interstate 8 today and see wind turbines not operating with blades fallen off, towers collapsed, all within less than 10 years of marginal electric production at a very high cost to the tax payers and consumers.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I keep mentioning all these particulate stories to my diesel-hating wife, yet she still won't let me replace the gas stove top for something better, like induction. And so it goes.

    Read the Secret Life of Dust, by Hannah Holmes. There is a lot of stuff in the air that is not good for us. Better to live as far from people as practical.

    Probably $20k out of pocket with ~$7k credits. My wife wants to go with fewer panels - I want the gold Cadillac on the roof naturally.

    The idea of selling back the excess may not be so good. SDG&E just got a reprieve and is only giving back about 4 cents per KWH. I would look into the plans where you just pay them a flat per KWH and they own the solar equipment as well as maintain it. Unless you want to be out there cleaning off the sand every time they have a wind storm. I don't buy the 25 year warranty. None of the current companies will still be in business in 25 years. Probably not in 5 years. Go with the solar car port. I keep thinking about that.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    We're thinking "shade house" on the other side of the yard now (i.e, a carport for people). Panels on top of the garage would keep the garage cooler than a carport, from talking to one guy. The sun is way overhead in the summer here. Shouldn't do anything until we live hear a year and get a little better idea of the seasons. Be nice to see @larsb‌ around again and get an update on his panels.

    Here's a measured rebuttal to a recent Automobile News story:

    "Both Paris and London are now differentiating between old and new technology rather than full bans on diesel or any other technology."
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2015
    Be nice to see @larsb‌ around again and get an update on his panels.

    Last posting I saw of his he had moved to TX from Phoenix. Not sure if he installed Solar PV over there. They have a lot of low cost wind power offered in some areas.

    We're thinking "shade house" on the other side of the yard now (i.e, a carport for people).

    I keep thinking the US will come up to speed with the Brits on Solar Greenhouses.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me1xx2t7EJY
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting - here all the juice would be needed for the greenhouse AC to keep the plants from frying. :D
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    I am not sure how this might fit in the scheme of things, but being as how CA LOVES to increase costs of things that really don't need it: perhaps this CA state drought might be a clarion call on how to combine desalination (close to literally inexhaustible (ocean) water, 24/7 available light farming, and farming hydroponics, solar to better use the farming footprint. There are many nexuses here.

    After all building RUG/PUG/BIODIESEL on a 9x12 ft concrete pad with access to natural gas and certain "chemistries" in an INDUSTRIAL space IS off the shelf, and OLD technology.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Here is a TMI on why I wanted to keep the European Passat 2015 Car of The Year under the TMI radar ! How's about a Audi Q7 TDI/hybrid @166 mpg !!!

    Now that blows my, 09 Jetta TDI 41 mpg, 123 mpg, 3 person commute out of the water to 498 mpg !!! ;):D That's 91 (real) gals of ULSD per year, 7.6 gals per month for a 15,000 miles commute. Peel me a grape, I might have to refuel 3.45 times in a year. @ 2.99 per gal that is $ 22.67 per mo or $ 272. per year.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/02/166-mpge-diesel-electric-audi-q7-e-tron-quattro-gets-real-in-gen/
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Interesting testing on the new 2015 Ford F 150. $60 k PLUS?

    ..."Stepping up to the 3.5 turbo (best) engine isn't terribly expensive; a $2,295 option from the base XL-trim truck"...

    Interesting that folks are ok spending to UPGRADE gassers, but have "issues" spending the same amount or less for diesel. Indeed $2,295 isn't terribly expensive on one hand and the same amount, on the OTHER hand is considered outrageous ! ?

    ..."The 3.5 EcoBoost is either extremely thirsty, or has a tall pedal that's just too damn tempting because my average over 1,045.3 miles (about 65% highway and 95% unladen) was 16.8 MPG... that's just shy of the truck's EPA city rating."...

    http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/1-000-hard-miles-in-the-most-expensive-2015-ford-f-150-1676530984

    By the way, the F150 weighs app 400 #'s less than the 12 VW Touareg 3.0 L TDI, which posts 31 to 35 mpg.

    Closer in weight, the MB GLK 250 BT, 2.1 L posts 34 to 39 mpg.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is a gas guzzler on steroids.

    The 3.5 EcoBoost is either extremely thirsty, or has a tall pedal that's just too damn tempting because my average over 1,045.3 miles (about 65% highway and 95% unladen) was 16.8 MPG... that's just shy of the truck's EPA city rating.

    I found this the most damning statement made in the review. The Ram Eco diesel would be my choice for sure.

    If I was dropping sixty grand on a new truck I'd be on my way to a GMC dealer as soon as I could get my hands off the F-150's helm.

    Materials in general are all good, but lack the richness and refinement I've noticed in the comparably-priced luxotrucks from GM and Ram. Those trucks have a cohesion of design that makes them feel like they were designed as luxury vehicles from the beginning. And more importantly, have beautifully crafted and girthy steering wheels that are at once welcomingly soft yet weighty enough to warrant respect.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The all-new F-150 continues to be the hottest vehicles on dealer lots, turning more than four times faster than the industry's overall full-size pickup segment."

    Ford F-150, Cadillac Escalade and Dodge Challenger Rule February Sales Report

    In other news, the 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test is on again now that the Ram is out of the shop. It was only in there twelve days while they were talking with Detroit and getting parts together to replace a good portion of the fuel system.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    I do not know. Without numbers, that might be wishful thinking @ best. Most articles I have read indicate GM/RAM etc have better numbers and/or percentages than Ford PU trucks.

    It absolutely makes sense for RAM engineers to take a progressive approach, to " jump on it". Corrections to a "system" wide issue/s can be a TSB away !

    I also am looking forward to Edmunds.com testing the Cummins 5.0 L V8 TDI !! 550 # ft !!! If it can post 25 to 30 mpg with a proper 8 to 10 speed A/T !! (early test's @ 24 mpg) WOW ! OEMS are stepping up to bring new diesels to the US markets.
  • Options
    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    ruking1 said:

    Here is a TMI on why I wanted to keep the European Passat 2015 Car of The Year under the TMI radar ! How's about a Audi Q7 TDI/hybrid @166 mpg !!!

    Now that blows my, 09 Jetta TDI 41 mpg, 123 mpg, 3 person commute out of the water to 498 mpg !!! ;):D That's 91 (real) gals of ULSD per year, 7.6 gals per month for a 15,000 miles commute. Peel me a grape, I might have to refuel 3.45 times in a year. @ 2.99 per gal that is $ 22.67 per mo or $ 272. per year.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/02/166-mpge-diesel-electric-audi-q7-e-tron-quattro-gets-real-in-gen/

    You also have to figure in the cost of electricity to recharge the batteries. That reduces the MPG. I perform a calculation on my C-Max Energi. My lifetime MPG is 83.4, but my MPGe (including electricity) is only 61.68.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Indeed, no calculative data was provided to even swag it. So I obviously did not do it. With 36 miles (optimistic range) on battery, that would leave me 9 miles/75% consumed. This is rather STEEP on acquisition and operating costs.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Slow diesel news day ! ULSD is 8.7% up to $3.25

    RUG @ $3.29
    MG @ $3.39
    PUG @ $3.49
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In the Good News section:

    "Over the past several decades, California officials set groundbreaking standards that phased out many inefficient car and truck engines and some of the dirtiest fuels for everything from jet skis and lawnmowers to school buses and heavy-duty trucks. Local smog-fighters in the Los Angeles basin forced cleanup of oil refineries, manufacturing plants, and consumer products such as paints and solvents. Other local and state programs offered incentives for replacing old trucks and buses.

    The result: Some of the most problematic pollutants-smog-forming nitrogen dioxide and fine particles created by diesel-engine exhaust and other fossil fuels-declined in the worst neighborhoods by up to 50 percent in 20 years. Maritime pollution, particularly in neighborhoods near the massive ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, also has dropped substantially."

    As Smog Thins in L.A., Dramatic Evidence of Kids' Healthier Lungs (nationalgeographic.com)

    There's a good graphic/photo over at the WSJ too, if you have access to their stories.
  • Options
    kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Would only consider buying Diesel when manufacturers can make their engines run cleanly without adding Urea (added hassle, expense, etc.).
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    kurtamaxxxguy said:

    Would only consider buying Diesel when manufacturers can make their engines run cleanly without adding Urea (added hassle, expense, etc.).

    If the Urea fill every 10-15k miles is an issue, owning diesel is NOT for you. With the current price of DEF under $5 per gallon, the cost per mile on my Touareg TDI is 2 tenths of a cent per mile. Chump change when you figure gas in my Sequoia was about 21 cents per mile over 6 years. I would keep this vehicle even if diesel was twice the price of gasoline. Right now diesel is about 20 cents per gallon less than RUG. I love not filling for 600+ miles. I love the torque climbing hills that the gas V8s just don't have. I was not in favor of Urea, until I realized it makes the air cleaner and it is less hassle than changing oil. which is every 10k miles.
  • Options
    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    kurtamaxxxguy said:

    Would only consider buying Diesel when manufacturers can make their engines run cleanly without adding Urea (added hassle, expense, etc.).

    Urea/DEF was mandated ! The expense is $9.99 (NAPA special) per 2.5 gal container. The VW Touareg TDI used app 4.5 gals for (the 4th) 13,500 miles (consumption shows consistency) or .001332 cents per mile driven DEF. The MB 250 BT used 2 gal in 12,100 miles or ..00066 cents. Do I consider DEF filling an annoyance? Yes !

    Back in the day, I used to think 1,500 miles OCI's were annoying! Did I do them ? YES !! Fast forward to TDI's today. Because of how clean diesels run AND the robustness of TDI specialty oils, I am able to run 30,000 miles OCI's. Are they still an annoyance? YES !!! Do I do them? YES !!

    So I really can't say I blame you there ! You also have to use the correct fuel, special oil, etc, etc. So if you can not or will not make the attitudinal adjustment, you are probably more disposed to spend and consume more in RUG/PUG gassers.

This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles