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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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So what cars were you able to look @ ?
Driving home, I only had to roll up my window once while idling at a light next to a 2500 diesel.
1999 VW Beetle Diesel 5spd 35/44 mpg
2015 VW Beetle Diesel 6spd 31/41 mpg
1999 Mazda 626 2.0L 4spd 19/26 mpg
2016 Mazda 6 2.5L 6spd 28/40 mpg
Notice how much progress the RUG car made over the 17 years while the diesel mpg actually went down. Back in the day diesel cars were certainly far superior to RUG in fuel economy. Today that just isn't the case, RUG cars are the equal to diesel in fuel cost per mile or in some case better.
1. the 27% greater torque of the 15 VW Beetle TDI than the 15 Mazda 6
2. mpg and torque differences of 1999/2015 gasser vs TDI Beetles
3. Why Mazda didn't see fit to bring their 310 # ft TDI to US markets. Lots of TMI here.
4. The 52% increase in # ft of torque between 1999 and 2015 VW TDI's
Anecdotally, Fuelly.com lists 30.9 mpg for the 15 Mazda 6. We have gotten 41 mpg in a 09 Jetta TDI. There is almost no doubt in my mind, I/We can get @ least 41 mpg in any 15 VW TDI (2.0 L TDI) . aka , a minimum of 33% BETTER mpg.
( snapshot @ local prices:
RUG $2.71(/30.9 mpg= .0877cents),
MGUG $2.79,
PUG @$2.89,
ULSD $2.99 (/41 mpg=.0729 cents)
So over 6.67 years (100,000 miles, 15,000 miles AVG US driver) is/='s $8,770 - $7,290=
$1,480 MORE to perform the same work. (20.3 % MORE)
I think the Golf Sport Wagon, gasser/TDI will probably mimic the JSW, in high to highest resale value and vie for "ICONIC" status. It probably has the no brainer potential for higher % TDI take rate. I think it has pretty good potential to rise in reliability and durability ratings, despite being the first MY.
SIDEBAR ( I follow this somewhat, as it is the gassers nexus to "SMALL" diesel turbo engines)
Now, most oems define "EXCESSIVE" gasser oil consumption as 1 qt/l in UNDER 1,000 miles . One qt/l in 1,000 miles is considered NORMAL. What they are anecdotally could make interesting departures for discussion.
So over 30,000 miles, up to 30 qts/l's oil CONSUMED can be considered NORMAL. @ $ 5.00 to $10. per qt/l, interesting chunk of additional change.
Now, I do NOT know if this is normal or not, but across (my) 4 turbo DIESEL engines: 1.9 T l, 2.0 T l, 2.1 TT l, 3.0 T l, oil consumption has been app 1/4 to 1/2 qt/l to @ most (during one engines AGGRESSIVE break in) 1 qt/l per 30,000 miles (PER engine AND avg).
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/2015-volkswagen-golf-sportwagen-gets-price-tag-204741958.html
Again this is really in the context of assumptions made from time to time, yearly US driver average miles: 12,000 to 15,000 miles, PVF average age of 11.5 years, any car should be able to go to a major tune (100,000 to 120,000 miles) with scheduled maintenance, if not multiple major tunes.
So in that sense, the 2003 Jetta TDI with 187,000 miles is not too much out of the ordinary. What might make it noteworthy are being a TDI, still easily can hit targeted mpg's of 48-52 commute mpg (range 44 to 62) and R/R of one (4) glow plug.
So, IF I can put the 2009 VW Jetta TDI's HPFP issue in perspective (projected), I think VW stepped up to the repair "out of warranty," because the durability of the HPFP issue (mine) did not make it to the first major tune (120,000 miles in VW's case). HPFP issue is an outlier issue.
So for example, IF another (2nd) HPFP issue happens BEFORE 240,000 miles, defacto and by this definition, the HPFP issue will no longer be outlier.
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/you-can-get-an-insane-deal-on-a-diesel-car-right-now-th-1686954874
The gasser in my current car is velvety smooth, but I miss that torque, I like an effortless engine.
Consumers Still Want Higher-Mileage Vehicles Despite Low Gas Prices, Study Says
Pricing
Any discussion of comparative pricing between these two models is strictly academic, due to the continued existence of the “Chicken Tax,” which effectively prohibits the importation of the Amarok until VW decides to make it in Mexico or the U.S.A. In the U.K., the Amarok starts at $32,886 before the addition of VAT. Fully equipped, the Amarok easily tops $40,000. A loaded GMC Canyon goes for a little more than $40k, and that’s before the addition of the diesel, which we expect to add between $2,500 and $4,000 to the price. Whichever way you slice it, the days of the “cheap” new truck are over.
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/consumer/1411_diesel_duel_chevrolet_colorado_vs_volkswagen_amarok/
In the unintended consequences file, Recycling, war on diesel threaten platinum producers' price hopes. (Reuters)
OMG, reverse arb. European oil traders eye diesel exports to U.S. as cold snap bites (also Reuters)
So despite many decades of ill willed efforts (masquerading as various do good plans) to get folks who want and need size "13's" into size 4's ", , FINALLY the mpg in this segment has gone from 10-14 mpg, HIGHER. (Ford F 150 @ 20 mpg?) The interesting news? Despite 5.5 decades of technological GASSER efforts, DIESELS still have/hold onto @ least a 33 % advantage.
So for an example, and really don't get me wrong, but the V6 gasser engine on a VW Touareg is a VERY fine and technologically advanced product. It is even @ the vanguard of the mpg improvement efforts, posting app 20 to 25 mpg. The Touareg TDI has easily been posting 55 % better mpg. (31/35 mpg)
This is not meant in any way to vilify the 25% small car segment. There are folk that genuinely want and need vehicles in this segment. It is hard to know what part of that percentage are the brain washed from the bigger cars to light truck segment . But again, diesels in this segment easily still have hold onto @ least a 33% advantage.
Indeed, most of the efforts have been to handicap diesels, so they can advance the defacto yet false narrative, to make gassers APPEAR to be better or be GAINing on diesels.
Personally, I tend to prefer small cars. So a "drift" to bigger cars is really a series of adjustments to the UTILITY of larger cars to light trucks (SUV's to CUV;s in my case).
Indeed more TMI: the small car segment makes less profit per car (per se) than the larger car to light truck segment.
I have been trying to find a Colorado in stock locally so that I could do a trial fit, but the 3 closest Chevy dealers have zero stock. Apparently very few are actually coming in, and those few are being sold immediately, and I suspect at very close to window sticker. Which means I wouldn't buy one anyway, but I would like to find out if I at least fit. I already know I can't fit in a Frontier or Tacoma (no head room).
(Have to admit I've been eyeing both boots and "rancher" hats here; may have to ditch my baseball cap and sneaks).
The U.S. and South Korea have reached a deal on a permanent free trade agreement between the two countries that could see Korean-built pickup trucks imported into the U.S. without being subject to a 25 percent tax levied on most foreign-made pickups.
The so-called "chicken tax" originated in the early '60s during a trade dispute between the U.S. and Europe over U.S.-imported chickens, which were slapped with a special tax to protect West German farmers. The U.S. responded by slapping a 25 percent tariff on trucks imported from Europe.
Later, the tax became a way for U.S. automakers and the United Auto Workers union to keep pickups assembled in other countries out of the U.S., particularly low-cost compact trucks popular in the rest of the world.
The chicken tax on Korean-built pickups would remain at 25 percent for seven years after the agreement is signed but would be phased out in the eighth, ninth and 10th years, according to the trade pact. South Korea would have to eliminate a similar 10 percent tax on U.S. trucks imported into that country immediately.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/12/us-south-korea-trade-agreement-aims-to-eliminate-chicken-tax-on-trucks-.html
2. Again, not relevant to my single point. However, since you bring it up, let us compare the 2016 Mazda 6 with 184 hp @ 5700 rpm and 185 ft-lbs. @ 3250 rpm to the 1999 Mazda 626 with 125 HP @ 5,500 rpm and 127 ft lb @ 3,000 rpm - 47% increase in horsepower and a 46% increase in torque.
3. Ask Mazda.
4. The extra torque was needed to help compensate for the increase in curb weight of 2,867 lbs (1999 TDI) to 3,300 for the 2015. Same would hold true for the Mazda, weight is up.
Anecdotally, today Fuelly.com lists 47.2 mpg for the 2015 Prius and diesel is still 40 cents more a gallon than RUG here. EIA is reporting a spread of 60 cents between RUG & diesel (2/16/15).
TMI but related to diesel: those Asian brands so favored have not brought yet diesels to American markets.
I am looking forward to seeing how the (US made?) Cummins I4 TDI's (2.0L ?) and the V8 5.0 L TDI do/does. I have read 280 to 310 # ft to 550 # ft for the 5.0 L have been slated. Those torque figures will be MONSTER/ killer for their applications !!
Not according to the article Stever posted this morning. You can buy a Cruze diesel for $10,000 under MSRP. That is cheaper than the gas model. And in the state with the most cars gas and diesel are very close in price. Only 4 cents difference today at Costco.
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Costco_Gas_Stations/Chula_Vista/75686/index.aspx
So if you are ok with paying more to do the same work. I am ok with what you are ok with. But when you say RUG/ULSD are equal in fuel cost per mile,,, , when figures show differences, lacks credibility and is clearly misleading. So if you think the reality too harsh and still insist on calling IT equal, send me a check for the rounding realities, given the scenario "errors" aka $1,480. ! Right ! I didn't think so.
Advantage DIESEL.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I stand by what I wrote . I can only laugh imagining if I told the stations clerks, I will only pay the AVERAGE price, as they lead me away in hand cuffs. Curiously, why did you leave off the AVERAGE price for ULSD? Numerically, I would need tax credits from the IRS and applicable state to equalize. So how likely would you say that is?? Right, me too. To beat another dead horse, even as figures fluctuate. While I didn't say you were wrong, not much would be changed.
So if you are ok with paying more to do the same work. I am ok with what you are ok with. But when you say RUG/ULSD are equal in fuel cost per mile,,, , when figures show differences, lacks credibility and is clearly misleading. So if you think the reality too harsh and still insist on calling IT equal, send me a check for the rounding realities, given the scenario "errors" aka $1,480. ! Right ! I didn't think so.
Advantage DIESEL.
This has nothing to do with what you say to the station clerks. You said “ snapshot @ local prices”. It is there in black and white. You numbers are valid for your local area. Everyone else needs to do a separate calculation to see if it works. My numbers are spot-on as the British would say. Check the AAA site http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/todays-gas-prices/ Again it is very obvious that the calculation would need to be done for every state with varying results.
So what is the cost of AdBlue for 100,000 miles? Why did you avoid the question? Is it correct to say that VW would cover the first two additions (24K maintenance) and that visit 3 to 10 (30k, 40k, 50k...) would be out of the consumers pocket? What is the cost?
Here is the spreadsheet I used. Not pretty, but you can get the drift.
price mpg cost/mile Difference
rug 2.27 30.9 0.0735 $7,346
diesel 2.86 41 0.0698 $6,976 $371
rug 2.71 30.9 0.0877 $8,770
diesel 2.99 41 0.0729 $7,293 $1,478
Hawaii
rug 3.04 30.9 0.0984 $9,838
diesel 4.49 41 0.1095 $10,951 -$1,113
That is a darn good question. My Touareg has all maintenance to 48k Miles or 4 years. They have topped twice at my 10k and 20k service. From what I can find the AdBlue tank on my Tourareg is 5.5 gallons. The AdBlue light did not come on showing 1500 miles left before I hit 10k or 20k. It did come on shortly after 20k service. They did not reset the sensor. So currently AdBlue is readily available at WalMart for $11.97 for 2.5 gallon jug. I am guessing you can get at least 12k miles with 5.5 gallons. Or .2 cents per mile. Adding about 5 cents to every gallon of diesel at my current lifetime mileage of 26.6 MPG. One Club Touareg member claims it varies from 2-4.5 gallons every 10k miles. Very insignificant part of the equation in my opinion. Anyone that would worry about the AdBlue should not own a diesel vehicle. My experience in the past with VW dealers and service charges on my 2005 Passat TDI, is they gouge far less than Toyota does for service.
PS
Our current average RUG price in San Diego is $2.93 and ULSD is $2.99. I am saving 8 cents a mile or about $48 every 600 miles over the Toyota Sequoia. I am more than happy to save $1300 per year driving the finest SUV on the planet.
So if you are ok with paying more to do the same work. I am ok with what you are ok with. But when you say RUG/ULSD are equal in fuel cost per mile,,, , when figures show differences, lacks credibility and is clearly misleading. So if you think the reality too harsh and still insist on calling IT equal, send me a check for the rounding realities, given the scenario "errors" aka $1,480. ! Right ! I didn't think so.
Advantage DIESEL.
This has nothing to do with what you say to the station clerks. You said “ snapshot @ local prices”. It is there in black and white. You numbers are valid for your local area. Everyone else needs to do a separate calculation to see if it works. My numbers are spot-on as the British would say. Check the AAA site http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/todays-gas-prices/ Again it is very obvious that the calculation would need to be done for every state with varying results.
So what is the cost of AdBlue for 100,000 miles? Why did you avoid the question? Is it correct to say that VW would cover the first two additions (24K maintenance) and that visit 3 to 10 (30k, 40k, 50k...) would be out of the consumers pocket? What is the cost?
Here is the spreadsheet I used. Not pretty, but you can get the drift.
price mpg cost/mile Difference
rug 2.27 30.9 0.0735 $7,346
diesel 2.86 41 0.0698 $6,976 $371
rug 2.71 30.9 0.0877 $8,770
diesel 2.99 41 0.0729 $7,293 $1,478
Hawaii
rug 3.04 30.9 0.0984 $9,838
diesel 4.49 41 0.1095 $10,951 -$1,113
Glad you agree with what I have been saying all along and acknowledged it, finally.
I've posted before about AdBlue CPMD: So did I avoid the question? Ah! NO !!! (google back if you really want to know and you can work in this right now price. Right now 2.5 gal container is $9.99. As I recall 4.5 gal for 13,500 miles? (VW Touareg TDI) IF that is correct, cpmd: AD BLUE: .001211
SLOW NEWS diesel day SO CA $2.93 RUG, $$3.13 PUG, 3.09 ULSD.
For app 378 miles, 85 mph to 88 mph, bursts to 95/98 mph. So far for a tad more than 1/2 tank, 34 mpg GLK 250 BT(.091 cpmd: fuel,( a GLK 350 @ 21 mpg would be .149 or 63.8 % more). I am guessing the optimum balance would be 81 mph. for a probable 37-39 mpg?
Hit many pockets of HEAVY RAIN which @ times stopped totally, and for ... repeats. It was a very uneventful drive.
Paid $2.079 for RUG in NJ (eatontown). ULSD was $2.719
The large pickup truck segment is very interesting landscape. Each manufacturer is doing "their thing" differently and the winner is the consumer.
RAM gives you the choice of a pentastar V6, HEMI V8, or 6 cyl diesel
Ford gives you aluminum body trucks with turbo V6 or V8 motors
Chevrolet soldiers on with their pushrod V8
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
RUG - $2.559
ULSD - $3.399
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
ULSD $ 2.99
RUG $ 2.91
MGUG $ 3.01
PUG $ 3.11
BIG news down here, DisneyLand is raising PRICES !! ( TO $99. ,if reports are true)
With the current price of oil (@ app 50 per barrel), financial news talking heads are talking OVER 100. per barrel in early 2016 !! ?? So how do folks think that will affect a minimum of 33% better mpg for diesel ?
The Wall Street Journal opines on this, but IF the small battery oems can't give LONGER life...
( how's Musk going to do it for EV CARS ?)
Our One Wish? Longer Battery Life
Making gadgets thinner and lighter is a trend that has outlived its usefulness
By CHRISTOPHER MIMS
Feb. 22, 2015 7:18 p.m. ET
http://www.wsj.com/articles/our-one-wish-longer-battery-life-1424650700?mod=trending_now_8
Disney World in Florida is going from $99 to $105 for an adult day pass.
wow...
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Costco_Gas_Stations/Chula_Vista/75686/index.aspx
Not that 530 miles to 608 miles, currently is anything to sneeze @. I can almost now do this 756 mile trip on one tank. BUT R/T without refueling is like KEWL ! Hit Tahoe (210 miles) from there with room to spare ? WOW.
Amazon sells AD Blue (I.E., 2.5 gal container) and with FREE shipping !! (over $35.00), IF you don't want to shop in a brick & mortar.
Amazon wants $13.97 for the 2.5 gallon jug of Peak DEF. Same thing a Wally World is $11.97. I look for it to get cheaper before I have to service my own. It is not anything real exotic. Urea is widely used in fertilizer as a good source of Nitrogen. Harmless to humans and animals. I am glad the Germans came up with a cheap way to cut NOx in diesel engines. Hopefully Mercedes & BMW do not gouge customers on service. Some have been denied AdBlue top off at BMW dealers on their 50k mile free service. And horror stories about only getting 5000 miles with their 6 gallon tank. This is rather disconcerting:
Follow SI B16 01 09 to properly drain and/or refill the active and passive tanks of the Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) system. Current BMW models require approximately 6 gallons of DEF during refill. The system must be drained and filled with fresh DEF at every oil service.
http://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/93418/bmw-diesel-def-warning-before-oil-service
Actually it is good to know that! IF folks are considering BMW's diesel's, that issue would certainly be one of the questions to bring up BEFORE buying, to either the servicing dealer or shop they would use.
ULSD $ 3.09
RUG $ 2.99
MGUG $ 3.09
PUG $ 3.19
There was a LIVE car chase on TV last night. Early morn commuter train derailment this morning.
Blue DEF on Amazon dropped from $13.99 to $11.97 (2.5 gal container). (they must be monitoring this site?)
TMI: The 2.5 gal containers I have used, come with a bendable connector that is (seemingly) designed to limit spillage. I was able to get the better part of two containers into the Touareg without incident. I have actually spilled more windshield wash fluid in comparison.
RUG - $2.119
ULSD - $2.839
That train collision was in my hometown of Oxnard - I'm traveling there in a couple of weeks to see my family.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
(implied and defacto, a % of TDI's)
(Lexus #1, Mazda #2,Toyota #3 Subaru #5)
I think the real reason Mazda didn't bring their diesels to US markets is they could not get their diesel entry to their same quality standards) One hint that I saw was a Mazda oem recommended 3,000 miles diesel oil change interval !!!! ????
MB has dropped like a rock. It seems to be most due to the problems in the NEW CLA line ("entry" and no diesel). to (high end) S line.
From my anecdotal experiences on 14 MB GLK 250 BT only, it has been flawless. I rated it such in two extensive surveys, sent to me. With MB you also need a score card to keep track of the constantly changing (GASSER) iterations. DIESELS.... not near as much.
The same was true for the 12 VW Touareg. BUT because it is an outlier of an outlier of an outlier, it might have BEEN considered an .... outlier (thrown out or severely discounted.) But despite those labels, in 53k miles, it has been FLAWLESS. It has been and remains one of VW's hidden in plain sight and open secrets. So for example, Good/Bad Car shows 14 VW Touareg sales @ 6,961 units. SO assuming 30% TDI's (I have read in passing) 2,089 TDI units. It is a Porsche Cayenne in a "plainer" wrapper. Another is Audi Q7. Both are more customizable than the Touareg.
To give a plug to the posting site, Edmunds.com's DIESEL center lists 30 for 2015 /16 MY.
Here is a reason why the US markets keep these OUT.
Range Rover Evoque sets new economy benchmark
(4.2l/100km= 56 mpg US,aka 128 oz gal)
..."can return 68mpg (4.2l/100km) and 109g/km of CO2 in two-wheel-drive guise. Meanwhile a 180PS diesel is also available that can power all four wheels yet still offer 59mpg and CO2 emissions of 125g/km."...
http://news.yahoo.com/range-rover-evoque-sets-economy-benchmark-133325792.html