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HOME / AUTO BUSINESS /
Is a Jeep Wrangler EcoDiesel Poised to Bring the Noise?
Micah Wright MORE ARTICLES
March 12, 2015
Interesting place to find a Edmunds.com reference.
..."In a separate test conducted by Edmunds.com, the EcoDiesel version of a 2014 Grand Cherokee averaged an impressive 27.4 miles per gallon in a mix of city, mountain and highway driving, and received high marks for its ability to handle terrain where large amounts of torque was necessary."...
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/is-a-jeep-wrangler-ecodiesel-poised-to-bring-the-noise.html/
A friend is driving a Grand Cherokee loaner from the Cadillac dealer while her Avalanche is being repaired. She does not like it. She has had it with GM and is looking at a new Lexus RX350. She is tired of having her vehicles in the shop. Only thing she likes about GM is Onstar. She loved her old 90s blazer. She also has an Escalade that is just too big. She has ridden in the Touareg TDI, and liked it. Just not ready for a VW. She lives by Consumer Reports. So I would say she will dump the Avalanche and get the RX350.
So far the 2.1 L twin turbo MB BT is quite the engine !
Folks might have issues with CR ( I certainly have over the years and recommendations). But I think (overall) they do consumers a service !
I am sorry to hear that. GM IS really STILL quite IFFY !! I also wonder what it would take VW or some to most of its' brands to get Lexus like ratings? (if that is even a goal) While the Lexus RX350 is rather long in the tooth, that is also the GOOD news ! Lexus/Toyota seems to have a lock on reliability, durability AND customer satisfaction.
I have a 20/25/30 year take on this,. Part of that is understanding the need for scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. We did finally change the oem shocks on a 250,000 miles 1994 TLC (@ 20 years). I bought the aftermarket brand name replacements who makes the oem shocks for Toyota/Lexus. I am not so sure it was NEEDED, as the alignment held well and tires were changed after app 90,000 miles on a set of Yokohama's. (This one spent 4 years of college in Santa Barbara, CA, aka by the sea, the other in the heart of CA farmlands) It does FEEL a whole lot better however. Time will tell if we can get another 90,000 miles out of this set of .... Yokohama's.
VW has certainly made it no secret that being number @1 in sales volume is a front burner goal. How that benefits consumers like me or you or anyone else, they have really not made the case.
So IF a GASSER 94 TLC can go 250,000 miles and 21 years, I do not see why VW TDI's can not !
I am not a fan. I also do not make an issue of it with friends. I don't like recommending a given vehicle and then taking the flack when it does not live up to their expectations. Especially diesel vehicles. A person has to want a diesel or they are likely going to hate it for whatever reasons. From dirty pump handles, Adblue or diesel costing a nickel more than RUG. Besides we have a glut of RUG in the refining process.
Diesels for a whole batch of reasons are an acquired taste. I think in a lot of ways, since I have literally one foot in and one foot out: diesels 50%/gassers 50% are really day to day experiences. But for like miles, I have had FAR more issues/costs with GASSERS.Given like models, I enjoy driving the diesels more.
So if I run 20 mpg on a 12 Touareg vs TDI's 32 mpg, @ YOUR local prices that is .1285 (project PUG) vs .0934 CPM: F, or 38% MORE.
The essential truth: there are FAR more gasser folks willing to pay FAR more $$'s, other than for the BASIC model, for say $4,000 in options upgrades, (nothing to do with the cost of diesels) than for what it costs (after all that is said and done) than to buy a diesel. So in that sense, the distinction (diesel premium) is a straw man. It just so happens that with the MB GLK 350/250 BT one can get similar pricey options on a gasser/BlueTec WITH a MINUS- $500 cheaper MSRP for diesel.
I realize there are other reasons to buy the diesel, and those aren't as easily quantifiable. Bottom line buy what you want and just be happy with it.
The diesel CAR PVF is @ less than 2.5% (265.6 M PVF) or app . 6.64 M diesel CARs
For me the non quantifiable part is how much I can get the dealer down on the price below invoice. Mercedes lost a sale because they just were not in a dealing mood. Or maybe they never are. VW was in an extremely good mood to deal. My 2013 TDI LUX had a MSRP of $56,658. I went for the LUX over the sport to get the NAV and more adjustable leather seats. Along with a few other amenities. Of course I had to have the color white and brown leather. My dealer was so hungry he sold me the vehicle at the USAA price of $48,409 plus TTL. The icing on the cake was absolute $Zero down and $0% financing. Still probably $20k more than some Japanese or Korean gas SUV. But I got what I wanted in a vehicle at a price I was willing to pay. NO possible way I could justify the purchase on mileage over a $30k SUV. Or even keeping the Sequoia that was still under warranty. Every time I get 650+ miles on a tank of diesel I am thankful I don't still have that gas guzzling Sequoia.
I stopped by our local Mazda dealer the other day with the intention of testing a Mazda3, but as I was looking at the window I saw they had added $1,995 for "Dealer Marketing and Handling" so I just left. I don't care to waste my time on dealers who think that's a legitimate charge.
Recall Issued For Dodge Ram Diesel Trucks Due To Fumes (ABC7)
"four of Volkswagen’s six diesel vehicles exceeded a 30% take rate, the percentage of diesels customers chose when a gasoline version is also available." (energyglobal.com)
Here are a few: (all are quotes so I won't litter the page with ... "xyz"...)
This has resulted in a 97% reduction in the sulphur in diesel fuel and more than 98% reductions in particulate matter and NOx. ( sic: LSD @ 500 ppm to ULSD @ 15 ppm sulfur= MINUS - 97%)
we currently have a new generation of clean diesel passenger vehicles with proven real world fuel efficiency. These vehicles are clean with low CO2 emissions, they provide great performance, they are renewable fuel ready and most important, they are available to the American public right now. Clean diesel is not a bridge concept or down the road expectation, these vehicles are on the road right now providing impressive hybrid like mileage and meeting the same emissions standards as gasoline vehicles.”
with an expectation of the diesel market to grow from today’s 3% market share to as much as 10% by 2020. (sic: I have been quoting 5% diesel with less than 2.5% diesel CARS
(sic: 2012 NHTSA figures, obviously in arrears)
Michael J. Ruth, Cummins Inc., highlighted the fact that new diesel vehicles that are available to day are clean, efficient and powerful with 20 – 40% better fuel efficiency than gasoline vehicles, and responsive power for a positive driving experience. Ruth also commented that new diesels are clean with may diesels now below the required fleet average required NOx values. Also, they are efficient with diesels providing conventional powertrain options with outstanding fuel economy that can exceed CAFÉ values. In addition, they are powerful as diesels can deliver torque equivalent to gasoline engines nearly twice the size, at cruise engine speeds and they deliver a comfortable driving experience.
demonstrated a majority of diesel users reporting fuel economy above the mileage o EPA window stickers.
( sic: I am sure some to many on this board are TIRED of seeing my boring figures)
Breneman also said that a major policy that unfairly hurts diesel cars and pickup drivers is the disparity in the federal fuel tax, which costs 18.4 cents/gal. for gasoline but a higher 24.4 cents/gal. for diesel in the US. Breneman commented, “there are over 7 million diesel cars and light trucks on the road today paying a diesel fuel tax penalty every time they fill up at the pump. There is no policy justification for taxing diesel fuel at a disproportionate rate.”
(sic: I have been estimating 6.64 M diesel CARS, again on 2012 NHTSA figures- obviously in arrears)
Breneman also commented that transportation and taxation policies should be technology neutral and not unfairly favour some fuel types or unfairly favour others.
(sic: So for example that would drop ULSD .06 cents to $3.19, RUG @ $3.27, MG $3.37 PUG $3.47, todays local pricing)
Indeed with the Euro $$'s down from 1.5 US to almost PAR, 1 to 1, this may well be a good to best time to consider a diesel (Euro). When you combine EURO/US $ par with the fact that MB,VW, and BMW are willing to post LOWER profits AND the zero to cheaper loan monies to move products, make your BEST % OFF MSRP $ deals !! Off to the races.
Breneman also commented that transportation and taxation policies should be technology neutral and not unfairly favour some fuel types or unfairly favour others.
Now is the time to raise the Gas tax up to the diesel tax and specify the extra to Infrastructure ONLY.
(80% TDI take rate, 30% 6 speed MT take rate, notice the Ad Blue tank access under the fuel door cap)
http://www.cnet.com/products/2015-volkswagen-golf-sportwagen/
Breneman also commented that transportation and taxation policies should be technology neutral and not unfairly favour some fuel types or unfairly favour others.
Now is the time to raise the Gas tax up to the diesel tax and specify the extra to Infrastructure ONLY.
There are problems with oil, gas and coal, but their benefits for people—and the planet—are beyond dispute
By MATT RIDLEY
March 13, 2015 5:33 p.m. ET
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fossil-fuels-will-save-the-world-really-1426282420?mod=WSJ_hppMIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
I have seen people build next to a scrap yard and complain about how the scrap yard looks. They want the government to come in and kick out the scrap yard. People do the same when they build next to a shooting range, railroad tracks, someone with horses or a wastewater lagoon. Go on Google Earth and locate the Mandan, North Dakota wastewater plant. Here is the location in Mandan, ND, 46.792576, -100.839936 Google Earth has a feature that lets you see satellite images from the past. http://www.google.com/earth/explore/showcase/historical.html Pick a time in the 90s and compare it to the present. Who was there first?? You may also want to see what happened just south of Watford City, ND as a result of the oil boom. Watford City, ND 58854 47.785293, -103.287291
You call it big brother. I call it an excellent solution, a cost effective solution that allows the utility to manage the irresponsible, and selfish customers. People always talk about how we need freedom. What about being responsible?
As a matter of fact truck drivers pay a lot more per mile than the rest of US. With 24.4 cents per gallon and the big rigs getting about 6 MPG, they are paying about 4 cents per mile Federal Tax. Or more than 4 times what a diesel vehicle getting 25 MPG will pay. There is already a lot of discussion about raising the Gas tax, which would generate far more revenue for infrastructure. Total diesel sold in USA is about 39 Billion gallons per year. About 3.5 times as much Gas is consumed in the US vs diesel.
In 2014, about 136.78 billion gallons1 (or 3.26 billion barrels) of gasoline were consumed in the United States, a daily average of about 374.74 million gallons (or 8.92 million barrels).3 This was about 4% less than the record high of about 142.35 billion gallons (or 3.39 billion barrels) consumed in 2007.
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=23&t=10
By raising the gas tax 6 cents per gallon we would get about $8.2 Billion more revenue for fixing roads and bridges. The other option may suit you better to charge by the mile, which several states are considering. That would keep everyone including Prius drivers, honestly paying their fair share of the road tax. I think the Oregon/California plan was a flat 2 cents per mile driven.
By the way, I don't recall anyone on this thread "Whining" about the additional tax on diesel. I would imagine the author of the article you responded to does not even own a diesel rig. Just pointing out a fact. What's not to like about the price of diesel when it is on average here 30 cents less than RUG? Life owning a diesel is grand.
I'm actually for getting ALL current road fix monies to actually FIX roads. GEEZ, this is an almost RADICAL concept that should not BE ... radical. Most to all of those monies have been, are and remain on the hijacked, to be hijacked for other than road FIXING purposes !!!! That might be the good/bad news. The actual monies APPLIED to actually FIXING roads are mostly spend on total BS paper work (90% of each dollar), albeit ABOUT fixing ROADS !!!!! Needless to say, VERY VERY VERY little is put to where the RUBBER meets the ROAD (less than .10 cents of each dollar). Need a sound bite? HIGHEST (in the nation) fuels and road taxes, CRAPPIEST ROADS !!
..."People buying a diesel car know this going into the deal. I really hate it when people do something knowing full well what they are getting into and whine about it after they do it."...
That/those might be your opinion/s, but YOUR opinion/s is/are NOT supported by the facts.
With Fed gasser taxations @ .184 cents per gal and diesel taxations @ .244 cents per gal (33% HIGHER), I agree with the article that diesel taxations should be LESS. (@ MOST same as gasser/PUG .184 cents as a starting target and better and fair less across the board (less than .184 cents and 30% less than RUG/PUG.) The STATEs should follow suit. So for example, total taxation for ULSD is @ .65 cents per gal in CA with 24.4 cents of that being Fed. So ...what does THAT tell you?
http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-january-2015.pdf
So for example, and to be CLEAR: IF RUG/PUG Fed taxations remains @ 18.4 cents, THEN ULSD taxations (as a minimum) should be LESS @ 12.88 cents !!! Why less, one might ask? Guess what, diesel cars USE less !!! So again, diesel users are PUNISHED for what they DON'T use. They should be REWARDED for what they DONT use (like model). (aka, pay the FAIR SHARE) AGAIN States should follow suit.
So for example, using the MB GLK 350/250 BT, 20 mpg/34.5 mpg: GASSERS pay 30% MORE FED taxation (CPMD: fed tax ), than (like model) diesel even with diesel's (Fed) taxation being 33% HIGHER. Advantage, disadvantage , advantage diesel !
I do agree. I think the Eco Nuts in the EPA want it both ways. They want US to use less oil. But they want more taxes. That is why a few states have a hybrid penalty to compensate for their paying less than "THEIR FAIR SHARE".
You are also forgetting that the bridges need to be designed for the largest vehicles like semis. That 3,261 pound Jetta TDI is not the issue. It is the 80,000 pound truck that is the problem.
People have been “complaining” about the diesel tax on many posts. Again, the higher diesel tax is because the trucking lobby wanted it that way. The farmers managed to get an exemption (rightly or wrongly?) http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Fuel-and-Road-Use-Tax-Agriculture-Tax-Tips
And yes, people here have been “complaining” about the diesel tax for sometime now. I for one would be on the horn to my representatives if they tried to raise the gasoline tax and not the diesel tax. Who do you think is destroying all the roads out in western ND in the oil patch? Its not the cars...
If the Interstate highways were built to the mandate by the Federal government, they should NOT be damaging to the roads. They were supposed to be designed to carry heavy military loads. Secondly, I hope you do not believe that the road tax is not passed on to the consumer of the goods in the truck?
You are also forgetting that the bridges need to be designed for the largest vehicles like semis. That 3,261 pound Jetta TDI is not the issue. It is the 80,000 pound truck that is the problem.
I am not forgetting that. It has to do with normal maintenance. With 30,000 bridges in the US at risk it is more likely someone in a Jetta or Prius will be the victim when and if a bridge fails. We pay the DOT in the states and Federal government BIG BUCKS to keep the bridges and roads maintained. Truth is they don't do a very good job. And Congress and various state legislators steal the money from gas taxes for all their pet projects. If you want to see fuel taxes well spent drive the back roads of TX. They are in great shape and a pleasure to drive on. CA takes in by far the most in fuel tax and from my several trips cross country over the last few years, we have about the worst roads in the nation.
And yes, people here have been “complaining” about the diesel tax for sometime now. I for one would be on the horn to my representatives if they tried to raise the gasoline tax and not the diesel tax. Who do you think is destroying all the roads out in western ND in the oil patch? Its not the cars...
If the eco nuts have their way all the oil production will go away, and you won't have those nasty trucks messing up your highways in ND. Your state has plenty of room to raise gas/diesel taxes to keep up the roads. You are well below the national average. I can tell you I complained a lot more about the sub standard gas we get in CA than I ever do about the diesel. And most of the time they are close in price even with the higher state taxes. RUG 63.79 cents per gallon ULSD 65 cents per gallon. I would be really complaining if I lived in PA were they are dinging diesel at 88 cents per gallon. A full 20 cents above RUG. No wonder many people go to NJ for fuel. Less than half the tax.
http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-january-2015.pdf
The U.S. ban is harming the oil patch and raising gasoline prices.
(this "energy" stupidity is left over from the NIXON era. It will be interesting to see the energy "leftovers" from the BO era, 35 to 40 years from now)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-export-folly-1426286892?mod=hp_opinion
Slow diesel news day
MG $ 3.35
PUG $ 3.45
RUG $3.25
ULSD $ 3.23
@ par Fed diesel taxation to RUG/PUG would drop ULSD to $3.17.
It is starkly apparent why "fairness" in Fed diesel $ 18.4 cents per gal /RUG/PUG $18.4 per gal taxation in the PVF is pooh poohed by those supposed "FAIRNESS" folks ($ 24.4 cents/$18.4 cents) Indeed those very same folk have indicated either defacto, by silence or by choosing, RUG/PUG, they are just fine with paying MORE !!!
Be that as it may, MB GLK 350 @ 20 mpg= $ 17.25 cents, MB GLK 250 BT@ 34.5 mpg= $ 9.36 cents. CPMD: fuel, PUG being 84.3% MORE. I am ok with paying even less, MINUS- 1.86 %.
So over 100,000 miles, that is $7,890 more for RUG/PUG. It may be revealing to show that @ today's diesel prices AND GLK 250 BT 34.5 mpg example, that represents an additional 84,274 MILES ( of commuting).
The VW Jetta TDI 41 mpg/1.8 T 24.8 mpg, fully.com) is a tad less dramatic@ 65.3 % more, or 65,313 more miles. So it is not like the Fed will miss the $21.96 per year/ $1.83 per mo (.06 cents per gal) much over the 366 gals for commuting.
I am not sure what it means to many to all non diesel or even diesel folks on this board (there are enough asumptions/variables/formulas so any one can run the numbers, aka REAL "transparency"), but I do have a few clues as to what it has, does and will mean/s to me.
So while LOWER commute costs were the original reason/s (and actually remain since not much has changed,aka why pay more when you can pay less- same work- 100,000 miles) to TRY diesel (going on 360,000 miles, and some years ago), it has become the icing, given the confluence of the diesels' benefits to how I and mine drive.
https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/driving-the-2015-vw-golf-sportwagon--the-euro-efficiency-143802564.html
They mentioned two other competitors, Interesting, one is Toyota Prius V 's (mpg) against the TDI. . Between the two, the driving dynamics can be night and day. The Subaru Outback starts @ the cheapest TDI MSRP.
One can chose WAY more options with the 15 Golf.
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/ARCO_Gas_Stations/Carlsbad/23330/index.aspx
Wish the gas-drinkers would have a range like the Diesels.
Watch your speed on that stretch.
Ask me how I know...
Vacaville (for the rest of the board) has lots of easy on/off Freeway access to Vacaville Outlet Stores (SHOPPING) and fueling stations. TMI: Tesla has a EV charging station in the Vacaville Outlet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacaville,_California
I've been making this drive for 22 years(moved up from San Jose area in '93).
EVERYONE except the semis does 65 going down that hill. Otherwise, you smoke the brakes!
Popped me for $160.
Don't do it!
Good friend just got hit there for going 80, and $200 later...
They are not interested in warnings, they want your money.
Period.
A CHP (during WEED season) can HIDE in plain access AND normally plain SIGHT in the WEEDS and gun in either direction. (aka, you can NOT see this guy or CAR) At either the top (NB) or bottom (SB) there is a squad car a waiting (3 to 4 ship).
As you probably can read between the lines, I have a story there, aka, no tickets for TWO in caravan. (one being the 2003 Jetta TDI, only got 48 mpg)
If I went 55 mph, I could come close to doing a Chevy Chase. You'd also probably call me a liar for the mpg I could post @ 55 mph. For me, going that slow would be a definite safety hazard.
I 5 allows triple trailers (OR/WA), so when THEY see fit to pass someone going 55 mph, ah......
I strongly suspect a very large number of police departments / justice systems in America are run on exactly the same basis.
I have yet to figure out Oregon's ridiculous and repressive speed limits - I thought it was bad here, but Oregonians must feel like Ossi crossing the wall in 1989 when they drive to more logical states. Good speeds for diesel mpg anyway, let it loaf in top gear and get 50mpg in that 4cyl bluetec. And when you refuel, someone else pumps it. Weird place.
(Fuelly.com lists 1999 Dodge Intrepid @ 19.1 mpg)
This Couple Drove A Dodge 540,000 Miles to Every County in the Lower 48
Alex Lloyd By Alex Lloyd
March 16, 2015 12:13 PM
Motoramic
https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/meet-the-couple-that-drove-a-540-000-mile-dodge-intrepid-to-every-county-in-the-lower-48-161344757.html
However, it does beg the question, (similar mpg to MB GLK 350) how would 34.5 mpg be? (diesel) MB GLK 250 BT? That is 28,273 gals vs 15,652 gals . The gals SAVED (12,621) would let me log 435,425 miles MORE !!!!!
! have also done the PCH (Pacific Coast Highway (LA to) SF Bay Area, any number of times, during the period one of the kids was @ the University of California @ Santa Barbara. If one likes to drive it is simply incomparable.