What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

fintail

Nope, labor is not a part of the troublesome models - build quality is virtually always top notch. I don't know if I can take lectures about the brand from some here who don't seem to have any real experience with the brand, or some other real world situations (still no details of how first world living wage labor causes these problems). Also not at peace with racing to the bottom so the guillotine class can hoard more unearned gold. Not at peace with zero-responsibility organizations cashing in on expensive-to-maintain systems and then running away like cowards when it comes time to pay it forward. Just regressing towards a mean.

You were asked about examples of troublesome models from your 48 year driving history, none were provided. Enough said for me. It's you

Speaking of troublesome models, the gassers tend to be more troublesome than diesels, but they also tend to be the more complex models. Biggest fault of old MB diesels, save for the short run 350 SDL (again with problems from engineering, not living wage labor), is that the older ones are just too slow for modern traffic.

ruking1 said:

Not only are you WRONG (there is a labor component), if not, you should be totally @ peace with foreign labor, which you (more than a few times demonstrate) are snooty about. ALONG with goofy engineering. The deception is harbored by you, not me. You are wearing psychedelic rose colored glasses, when it comes to the MB brand old and new. Peace out, as you do the "waiting for godot" retired federal worker search. As one song goes "it ain't me babe".

ruking1

Well, you are making my case. Let's move on. I didn't say ALL the BRAND' s models or only diesels, YOU took offense and implied that was what I said. Your defensive attitude really does not change what experiences I have had with the MB models. Did I experience the whole brand or all the models?. Geez, even you don't believe that! Even as you imply that or that I have NONE @ all. So really, not a lecture is given @ all. Chill out guy, this is a discussion board. You don't need to grasp at straws.

fintail said:

I accept your forfeiture. Like some coaches say, put up or...well, you know

fintail

I accept your forfeiture. Like some coaches say, put up or...well, you know

ruking1

fintail said:

I accept your forfeiture. Like some coaches say, put up or...well, you know

Not even close! But you are still WRONG! It is more like agree to disagree! As you probably have discounted, or most probably have ignored, I have detailed my MB GLK 250 BT experiences. I really have no desire to lessen the tint and view of your rose colored glasses! Moving on for that reason!

ruking1

Propel Launches Cleaner Diesel Fuel
by Philippe Crowe March 20, 2015

http://www.hybridcars.com/propel-launches-cleaner-diesel-fuel/

Another take.

gagrice

Fintail: (still no details of how first world living wage labor causes these problems)

I think we can find documented cases of UAW labor being substandard at a time when they were in Upper Middle Class. Much of the 1970s, 80s, 90s & 2000s cars coming from Detroit etc had build problems. I had a missing seat bolt on my 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid. A PU that was supposed to be the creme de la creme from GMC. The drivers door never fit tight. I think they are getting better workers at half the wages at the D3 now. All is not rosy in Germany either. The Workers are not happy with Obama's new trade agreement. As many here are not thrilled. I think the German workforce has been protected with very high tariffs that will soon go away.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) would eliminate all tariffs between the United States and European Union. Germany’s labor unions have criticized the deal, while auto industry bosses have endorsed the agreement.

Workers´groups insisted that while fewer tariffs and the creation of common technical standards may be beneficial for German industry, the trade deal must ensure labor rights including union representatives the right to vote on significant strategy goals such as shutting down a factory. This should also be guaranteed in the United States, the statement highlighted.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/German-Auto-Workers-Fight-for-Rights-as-US-Trade-Deal-Looms-20150127-0043.html

stever

Ah, first day of Spring.

Time for some new projects!

How To Fit A Cummins Diesel Engine Into An Impala (CarBuzz)

ruking1

stever said:

Ah, first day of Spring.

Time for some new projects!

How To Fit A Cummins Diesel Engine Into An Impala (CarBuzz)

Ah, reminds me of the special "smoking oils" ordered on a number of occasions for the Air Force Thunderbirds flight shows !! Ah, the fun of "passing gas".

ruking1

...". I think they are getting better workers at half the wages at the D3 now. All is not rosy in Germany either. The Workers are not happy with Obama's new trade agreement."..

Fintail is in literal, figurative and total denial. He just thinks no one else can see it. PC is probably the tinted rose color in psychedelic glasses. The Pueblo, Mexico VW plant is literally 50 years old.

It will be interesting to see if it passes. What IT is, is unknown, as things are done in TOTAL secrecy. It seems to have an BO speak calling out. Or a Pelosi urging , we have to pass BO care to see what it is, ala, game show surprise.

I say let Europe get what it wants, continue the GRAVITY slide. ....... ala, Greece, Italy, France (to name a few) ... Insofar as it applies to the diesel thread, it will probably have no to a negligible effect. It is clear Euro oems want to sell US market diesels, they will find the ways.

So for example, Michelin Tire Co ( a FRENCH company for those not familiar) does NOT make some of its BEST tires in ... France !! May be "once upon a time", as fairy tales go.... Geez,... I wonder why?????

benjaminh

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

ruking1

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

Indeed ! There can be NO doubt European Brands want (and NEED) to move PRODUCT! As it applies to diesels, VW, Audi, Porsche, MB, BMW,

After making ones', "BEST deal" ZERO % and $1k bonus credit are icing, icing. There are other TMI factors, but they are tmi.

On the other hand, with Union representatives on GM's board.... Still CLUELESS diesel?

GM Retaining Current Malibu, Cruze As Fleet Specials, Diesel Dead For 2016
By Derek Kreindler on March 19, 2015

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/03/gm-retaining-current-malibu-cruze-fleet-specials-diesel-dead-2016/

gagrice

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

That is a good deal. The $1000 is taken off of MSRP. Better have extremely good credit score. Seems early in the year for those deals. Maybe selling more cars in the USA is the only way they can pass Toyota this year.

stever

Time is flying - people are already searching for good deals on "leftover" 2015 CR-Vs - the 2016s are due next month apparently. Seems like they just came out.

Kind of bad, been telling my wife that we should wait for the 2016s to get here before shopping.

fintail

Where am I wrong? Please give details. I asked you for details before, you failed to produce, on multiple counts. Tell me about those bad MBs you've known about for 48 years. Tell me how first world living wage labor contributes to design flaws and engineering quirks. Come on, do it.

You give nothing to ignore.

ruking1 said:

fintail said:

I accept your forfeiture. Like some coaches say, put up or...well, you know

Not even close! But you are still WRONG! It is more like agree to disagree! As you probably have discounted, or most probably have ignored, I have detailed my MB GLK 250 BT experiences. I really have no desire to lessen the tint and view of your rose colored glasses! Moving on for that reason!

fintail

I suppose we have differing definitions of upper middle class.

Please use context and reading comprehension. Mr. Hard To Read was whining about troublesome upper range European luxobarges, not nailed-together American trucks built by mismanaged workers.

Tell me about the tariffs in Germany in regards to the automotive market. Numbers and economic impact. Tell me how they "protect", when Germany has a more diverse automotive market than here (they get diesels from everywhere, not just domestics). Not just an article blurb from a Venezuelan (?!?!) source.

gagrice said:

Fintail: (still no details of how first world living wage labor causes these problems)

I think we can find documented cases of UAW labor being substandard at a time when they were in Upper Middle Class. Much of the 1970s, 80s, 90s & 2000s cars coming from Detroit etc had build problems. I had a missing seat bolt on my 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid. A PU that was supposed to be the creme de la creme from GMC. The drivers door never fit tight. I think they are getting better workers at half the wages at the D3 now. All is not rosy in Germany either. The Workers are not happy with Obama's new trade agreement. As many here are not thrilled. I think the German workforce has been protected with very high tariffs that will soon go away.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) would eliminate all tariffs between the United States and European Union. Germany’s labor unions have criticized the deal, while auto industry bosses have endorsed the agreement.

Workers´groups insisted that while fewer tariffs and the creation of common technical standards may be beneficial for German industry, the trade deal must ensure labor rights including union representatives the right to vote on significant strategy goals such as shutting down a factory. This should also be guaranteed in the United States, the statement highlighted.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/German-Auto-Workers-Fight-for-Rights-as-US-Trade-Deal-Looms-20150127-0043.html

ruking1

Certainly, there is ALWAYS next year. Some real questions, ( IF one is in the PVF market) what is one buying that is BETTER next year and @ what premium or discount or risk. Another is just an observation. Each NEW years' cycle is pretty similar to the last years'. In arrears, depreciation can work for/against.

So for example, VW models (like GOLF) have been on 7 year cycles with two HUGE changes: 1. Shift to 5 year cycles 2. introduction of platforms.

Smaller results would be COST containments. So a consumer question would be: does that result in better/higher prices?

So "ideally", the 4/5th year of the new platform Golf TDI would be the ticket, if only for the debugging AND constant improvement. In the case of the 5th or last year they might be motivated to make room for the new design.

fintail

And what do I deny? If you're going to have the cojones to make a roundabout accusation, come out with it. Put up or shut up.

And some bitter political whine too, surprising some do that given where their meal ticket might be coming from.

Sometimes I am shocked some had the ability to afford or the sense to try a diesel, given what they post here.

Ante up!

ruking1 said:

...". I think they are getting better workers at half the wages at the D3 now. All is not rosy in Germany either. The Workers are not happy with Obama's new trade agreement."..

Fintail is in literal, figurative and total denial. He just thinks no one else can see it. PC is probably the tinted rose color in psychedelic glasses. The Pueblo, Mexico VW plant is literally 50 years old.

It will be interesting to see if it passes. What IT is, is unknown, as things are done in TOTAL secrecy. It seems to have an BO speak calling out. Or a Pelosi urging , we have to pass BO care to see what it is, ala, game show surprise.

I say let Europe get what it wants, continue the GRAVITY slide. ....... ala, Greece, Italy, France (to name a few) ... Insofar as it applies to the diesel thread, it will probably have no to a negligible effect. It is clear Euro oems want to sell US market diesels, they will find the ways.

So for example, Michelin Tire Co ( a FRENCH company for those not familiar) does NOT make some of its BEST tires in ... France !! May be "once upon a time", as fairy tales go.... Geez,... I wonder why?????

ruking1

fintail said:

And what do I deny? If you're going to have the cojones to make a roundabout accusation, come out with it. Put up or shut up.

And some bitter political whine too, surprising some do that given where their meal ticket might be coming from.

Sometimes I am shocked some had the ability to afford or the sense to try a diesel, given what they post here.

Ante up!

ruking1 said:

...". I think they are getting better workers at half the wages at the D3 now. All is not rosy in Germany either. The Workers are not happy with Obama's new trade agreement."..

Fintail is in literal, figurative and total denial. He just thinks no one else can see it. PC is probably the tinted rose color in psychedelic glasses. The Pueblo, Mexico VW plant is literally 50 years old.

It will be interesting to see if it passes. What IT is, is unknown, as things are done in TOTAL secrecy. It seems to have an BO speak calling out. Or a Pelosi urging , we have to pass BO care to see what it is, ala, game show surprise.

I say let Europe get what it wants, continue the GRAVITY slide. ....... ala, Greece, Italy, France (to name a few) ... Insofar as it applies to the diesel thread, it will probably have no to a negligible effect. It is clear Euro oems want to sell US market diesels, they will find the ways.

So for example, Michelin Tire Co ( a FRENCH company for those not familiar) does NOT make some of its BEST tires in ... France !! May be "once upon a time", as fairy tales go.... Geez,... I wonder why?????

Roundabout ? NO ! It was straight up and out ! You aren't now even in the diesel game! Tough talk in rose colored glasses. Tall hat, no cattle. The snootiness becomes you. Moving back on to the diesel topic.

Michaell

Speaking in my deep moderator voice

We need to take a break from the political discussion.

gagrice

I suppose we have differing definitions of upper middle class.

It was commonly reported that UAW folks were unhappy that they were getting cut back from their $100k plus per year with the various bankruptcies. That I consider upper middle class income. Well above the median.

Tell me about the tariffs in Germany in regards to the automotive market. Numbers and economic impact. Tell me how they "protect", when Germany has a more diverse automotive market than here (they get diesels from everywhere, not just domestics). Not just an article blurb from a Venezuelan (?!?!) source.


I was assuming the workers in Germany do NOT like the trade agreement that would make it easier for the USA to sell stuff including cars in Germany. I was basing it on the fact that cars of all sorts cost far more in Germany than the USA. Maybe the article is wrong and the German workers are thrilled with TPP. I know I question if it will be good for US factory workers.

As for quality of workers. I don't think any country has a corner on great workers. And I don't think higher pay means better workmanship. A chinese worker getting $2 per hour is just as capable of high quality workmanship as a Norwegian factory worker making $40 per hour. Training and management are the keys to quality.

ruking1

I can't help but think VW's goal of being the number one WORLD auto company has, still and will in the future present/s opportunities for (its') US market diesels AND other oems diesels. When I needed (last three times) commute cars, I threw in a lot of gassers to compare (top #s, 1,2,3,4,5 etc). So in terms of diesel/gasser power trains, it is easy to see it is an apples to oranges comparisons. So in those cases, I used how much % OFF MSRP (similar optioned) that each would come off as one of the tools.

I don't think this TTIP will remove the so called "chicken" tax, but it rates a shout out IF that is part of the deal.

cdnpinhead

From time to time it's useful to remember that this board is ruking1's sandbox (15,500+ posts) and those few others who venture here occasionally just get to play in it.

fintail

I guess I see "upper middle class" as more than income, especially when gained from OT or bubble industries like oil or housing - as when it stumbles, the earners usually lose their position.

The key to anyone selling cars in any market is offering products the locals want. The US doesn't make many things many Germans (or Japanese, etc) want. Sure, a few cultists want an American truck or a Mustang, but mass market products, nope. While many more want that Golf or 5er or Lexus. That matters a lot more than relatively miniscule, and usually [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat tariffs. It's one big reason Asian makes haven't been huge in Europe - few diesels, and fewer good diesels.

I agree with you about the workers, and the training/management. And for complex industrial products, unless you literally import a factory, management, training staff, and micromanage everything to the hilt, you're more likely to find success in a developed locale than elsewhere. Good luck with a 3rd world built S65. Higher pay doesn't guarantee better workmanship, but it's probably a positive correlation. Training and management are also keys to a cooperative productive workforce - see UAW problems vs generally more agreeable unions elsewhere.

Cars cost more in Germany in large part due to taxes (I want to say something like 19%) being included in price - something seen in most mature markets outside of NA. It's pretty cool - shop in Germany, and the price on the sign is what you pay. If I see a sign on that cool E250 6-speed diesel that would never be sold here, that's what I pay, I don't have to figure out what it costs plus 9.5%.

gagrice said:

I suppose we have differing definitions of upper middle class.

It was commonly reported that UAW folks were unhappy that they were getting cut back from their $100k plus per year with the various bankruptcies. That I consider upper middle class income. Well above the median.



I was assuming the workers in Germany do NOT like the trade agreement that would make it easier for the USA to sell stuff including cars in Germany. I was basing it on the fact that cars of all sorts cost far more in Germany than the USA. Maybe the article is wrong and the German workers are thrilled with TPP. I know I question if it will be good for US factory workers.

As for quality of workers. I don't think any country has a corner on great workers. And I don't think higher pay means better workmanship. A chinese worker getting $2 per hour is just as capable of high quality workmanship as a Norwegian factory worker making $40 per hour. Training and management are the keys to quality.

fintail

Irrelevant. I have substantial interest in diesel vehicles, and I actually know more about one of the leading brands than most, even if some make wild statements with nothing behind them. Good luck with the GLK - I'm interested in images of the mpg readout after a long drive. How does it compare to my old Bluetec? I suppose I'll have to pick up another, if we can get a C wagon with a W VIN

ruking1 said:

Roundabout ? NO ! It was straight up and out ! You aren't now even in the diesel game! Tough talk in rose colored glasses. Tall hat, no cattle. The snootiness becomes you. Moving back on to the diesel topic.

ruking1

fintail said:

Irrelevant. I have substantial interest in diesel vehicles, and I actually know more about one of the leading brands than most, even if some make wild statements with nothing behind them. Good luck with the GLK - I'm interested in images of the mpg readout after a long drive. How does it compare to my old Bluetec? I suppose I'll have to pick up another, if we can get a C wagon with a W VIN

ruking1 said:

Roundabout ? NO ! It was straight up and out ! You aren't now even in the diesel game! Tough talk in rose colored glasses. Tall hat, no cattle. The snootiness becomes you. Moving back on to the diesel topic.

Most to all of the rant was irrelevant. Even as you questioned mine, no one was questioning whether you had the interest or knowledge of the diesel topic, let alone the MB topic. I am glad that you do, on both counts. Thank you for the well wishes on the GLK. @ this mileage it would appear it has avoided anything CLOSE to lemon status. My take, it is the middle most( example) (average) of its' ilk. There is a TSB about a gasket oil leak and the VIN was not on the call back list and it is NOT leaking. So far so good.

ruking1

CADILLAC GM diesel? Or another diesel news day false alarm?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/20/cadillac-v6-engines-future-products/

..."Cadillac also says it's working on adding four- and six-cylinder diesel power trains, though it's unclear which vehicles will make use of those engines."...

gagrice

fintailI agree with you about the workers, and the training/management.

The reason I bring that up as some on Facebook believe the Chinese are not capable workers. When I look at my Note 4, (yes I finally joined the cult), I wonder if a UAW crew could assemble those phones? If a person can assemble a Note 4 or iPhone, they can put a car together. Only a few cars are actually hand built and that requires special skills with a lot of training and practice. I would suppose cars like the S65 fit that category.

ruking1

I just got an email from a guy that I see @ various local VW GTG's, catching up on car news. He picked up a 04 VW Golf TDI MT. After some fixing and "tuning", (chipping, clutch UPGRADE app 100# ft more torque, suspension and brakes upgrade) he took a trip to the LA area and back, 90 mph for 44 mpg.

This might be an indirect article to explain why Euro oems want to build markets and plants for European products outside of .... Europe.

The Global VAT Craze
A new study shows how the value-added tax is rising world-wide.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-global-vat-craze-1426892206?mod=hp_opinion

henryn

He was driving at 90, or is that his top speed in that model?

I remember several decades back, I had a 1970 Peugeot. The top speed was about 85 mph, but it would cruise comfortably all day long just under that speed. It also had a manual transmission with 4 forward speeds on the column shifter, which freaked out a number of people.

henryn

gagrice said:

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

That is a good deal. The $1000 is taken off of MSRP. Better have extremely good credit score. Seems early in the year for those deals. Maybe selling more cars in the USA is the only way they can pass Toyota this year.

I have been wondering when / if VW of America would make some kind of move. Their sales here in North America have been abysmal, and what's even worse, trending downwards.

The 0% financing looks good, but it really isn't a big deal. My credit union is offering 1.59%, and the difference is just not that big.

A quick trip to Excel. My local dealer has new Passat TDI SE for $26,576. Add 6.25% sales tax (Texas), take off 20% down payment, add back $300 for title, license, etc. Amount financed is $22,889. At 1.59% for 72 months, payments are $333.53. Zero percent financing would run you $317.91 per month.

Hmmm... A little more than I expected, it would be a good point to weigh in the balance. But not a deal maker or a deal breaker.

A little more math, if I might be allowed. 72 months, at 1.59%, will run you $14.57 per month per $1,000 financed. So the zero percent financing, in this case, would be equivalent to a little more than $1,000 off of the purchase price. The more I look at this, the more impressed I am!

ruking1

The speed was @ 90 mph cruising down the Interstate (app 400 miles one way).

Again, VW being only 2.5 % of the US market share can give opportunities to consumers. This puts VW in a very small minority position for being almost as big as Toyota. VW obviously wants to get a greater market share and in effect is willing to pay for it.

Have them run the numbers on a similar gasser. If the financed amount is @ par with the TDI (close to diesel premium) your choice to pay the diesel premium or ...not. But they probably will pop a money premium on the gasser. SO in effect you might pay close to diesel par. Still not convinced? Get pricing for a similar/competitor Toyota.

Just got a letter from the local dealership, where I got the 12 VW Touareg TDI. Longer story short (if folks are interested in the TMI, I can post), VW continues to offer ZERO % and nothing down on 15 Touareg TDI's. (AFTER best deal)

gagrice

I was in for my 20k mile service in October and they were not offering much of anything on TDI models. So this is a big deal. Someone high up has said move the iron. Of course that 0% financing is right out of VW's cash. They have their own financing which can be a big part of their income. Just not at 0%.

ruking1

gagrice said:

I was in for my 20k mile service in October and they were not offering much of anything on TDI models. So this is a big deal. Someone high up has said move the iron. Of course that 0% financing is right out of VW's cash. They have their own financing which can be a big part of their income. Just not at 0%.

Yes, it is a big deal. Yes, it can be counterintuitive @ our level (consumer). But the other BIG change is the Euro being close to PAR with the US $. Another reason VW Touareg TDI is a deal (screaming actually), Porsche Cayenne (TDI) sales are HOT (pun intended) !! As goofy as this might seem, a Cayenne ( gasser) can cost as much as 3 x more than a Touareg.

I have confidence a 15% to 17% OFF MSRP (same as yours/mine) can be done with close to little haggling (5 mins -7 min max) @ ZERO %/down. Driving off the lot with just a signature is pretty cool too. However at this point, I am more curious how the 12 VW Touareg TDI now with 54,000 miles will perform @ 100,000, 150,000 miles and 200,000 miles. I am almost daydreaming they would have to make even a BETTER deal ! Decisions- decisions.

nyccarguy

henryn said:

gagrice said:

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

That is a good deal. The $1000 is taken off of MSRP. Better have extremely good credit score. Seems early in the year for those deals. Maybe selling more cars in the USA is the only way they can pass Toyota this year.

I have been wondering when / if VW of America would make some kind of move. Their sales here in North America have been abysmal, and what's even worse, trending downwards.

The 0% financing looks good, but it really isn't a big deal. My credit union is offering 1.59%, and the difference is just not that big.

A quick trip to Excel. My local dealer has new Passat TDI SE for $26,576. Add 6.25% sales tax (Texas), take off 20% down payment, add back $300 for title, license, etc. Amount financed is $22,889. At 1.59% for 72 months, payments are $333.53. Zero percent financing would run you $317.91 per month.

Hmmm... A little more than I expected, it would be a good point to weigh in the balance. But not a deal maker or a deal breaker.

A little more math, if I might be allowed. 72 months, at 1.59%, will run you $14.57 per month per $1,000 financed. So the zero percent financing, in this case, would be equivalent to a little more than $1,000 off of the purchase price. The more I look at this, the more impressed I am!

With 0% financing or even 1.59% financing, there is no reason to put 20% down.

ruking1

It does raise the question, why?? especially @ ZERO % ? The secondary question: IF one is in the market for the diesel AND they are offering ZERO % , why would one want a 1.59 % ? 1,000 + @ $2.99 per gal = 334 gals of ULSD.

henryn

nyccarguy said:

henryn said:

gagrice said:

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

That is a good deal. The $1000 is taken off of MSRP. Better have extremely good credit score. Seems early in the year for those deals. Maybe selling more cars in the USA is the only way they can pass Toyota this year.

I have been wondering when / if VW of America would make some kind of move. Their sales here in North America have been abysmal, and what's even worse, trending downwards.

The 0% financing looks good, but it really isn't a big deal. My credit union is offering 1.59%, and the difference is just not that big.

A quick trip to Excel. My local dealer has new Passat TDI SE for $26,576. Add 6.25% sales tax (Texas), take off 20% down payment, add back $300 for title, license, etc. Amount financed is $22,889. At 1.59% for 72 months, payments are $333.53. Zero percent financing would run you $317.91 per month.

Hmmm... A little more than I expected, it would be a good point to weigh in the balance. But not a deal maker or a deal breaker.

A little more math, if I might be allowed. 72 months, at 1.59%, will run you $14.57 per month per $1,000 financed. So the zero percent financing, in this case, would be equivalent to a little more than $1,000 off of the purchase price. The more I look at this, the more impressed I am!

With 0% financing or even 1.59% financing, there is no reason to put 20% down.

My credit union (the one offering 1.59%) requires a 20% down payment to qualify for that rate. I was trying to compare apples to apples.

nyccarguy

henryn said:

nyccarguy said:

henryn said:

gagrice said:

benjaminh said:

Here's what VW will do for YOU if you buy a diesel Passat:

0% apr for 72 months + $1000 bonus credit. Sounds like a good deal to me:

http://www.vw.com/special-offers/

That is a good deal. The $1000 is taken off of MSRP. Better have extremely good credit score. Seems early in the year for those deals. Maybe selling more cars in the USA is the only way they can pass Toyota this year.

I have been wondering when / if VW of America would make some kind of move. Their sales here in North America have been abysmal, and what's even worse, trending downwards.

The 0% financing looks good, but it really isn't a big deal. My credit union is offering 1.59%, and the difference is just not that big.

A quick trip to Excel. My local dealer has new Passat TDI SE for $26,576. Add 6.25% sales tax (Texas), take off 20% down payment, add back $300 for title, license, etc. Amount financed is $22,889. At 1.59% for 72 months, payments are $333.53. Zero percent financing would run you $317.91 per month.

Hmmm... A little more than I expected, it would be a good point to weigh in the balance. But not a deal maker or a deal breaker.

A little more math, if I might be allowed. 72 months, at 1.59%, will run you $14.57 per month per $1,000 financed. So the zero percent financing, in this case, would be equivalent to a little more than $1,000 off of the purchase price. The more I look at this, the more impressed I am!

With 0% financing or even 1.59% financing, there is no reason to put 20% down.

My credit union (the one offering 1.59%) requires a 20% down payment to qualify for that rate. I was trying to compare apples to apples.

I stand corrected. There IS a reason

ruking1

Slow diesel news day NorCA.

ULSD $2.99

RUG 3.19

MG $3.29

PUG $3.39

Gassers: 12 VW Touareg/14 MB GLK 350 @ 20.5 mpg / 23.5 mpg = .1654/.1443 per mile driven: (Fuelly.com)

ULSD: 12 VW Touareg TDI/14 MB GLK 250 BT @ 32 mpg /34.5 mpg =.0934/.0867 per mile driven:

gassers CPMD:F are 77 % to 66 % MORE

DIESELS: 56% /47% BETTER mpg

gagrice

henryn: My credit union (the one offering 1.59%) requires a 20% down payment to qualify for that rate. I was trying to compare apples to apples.


In the past that was pretty much standard procedure to pay 20% plus TTL. So when the VW dealer brought out our paper work with $Zero down 0% interest I about fell off the chair. With CA tax and title the price was just over $54,000. No trade-in or down payment could be problematic for a lot of people. I am not sure after a year and a half if the Touareg is worth what we owe on it. I guess they figure I would not mess up my 830 credit score by defaulting. Cannot think of any vehicle I would rather have anyway.

fintail

Today I paid 3.06 for PUG, diesel was 2.73. With where and how much I drive, the price paid for the car still doesn't balance out with the fuel cost, but those are some wacky numbers otherwise. Had the prices been identical, the diesel would have been an insane bargain.

ruking1 said:

Slow diesel news day NorCA.

ULSD $2.99

RUG 3.19

MG $3.29

PUG $3.39

Gassers: 12 VW Touareg/14 MB GLK 350 @ 20.5 mpg / 23.5 mpg = .1654/.1443 per mile driven: (Fuelly.com)

ULSD: 12 VW Touareg TDI/14 MB GLK 250 BT @ 32 mpg /34.5 mpg =.0934/.0867 per mile driven:

gassers CPMD:F are 77 % to 66 % MORE

DIESELS: 56% /47% BETTER mpg

xwesx

Yeah, it's really too bad that fuel prices are so unstable. It makes no sense at all to base a purchasing decision primarily on the price of fuel with the market as it is.

gagrice

xwesx said:

Yeah, it's really too bad that fuel prices are so unstable. It makes no sense at all to base a purchasing decision primarily on the price of fuel with the market as it is.

Very true, I based mine on the many advantages of Diesel. Of course when it costs less than gas it makes me even happier. With the ethanol laced gas sold most everywhere, and talk of upping the percentage, it made it an even easier decision to choose a diesel vehicle. There the only trick is finding the diesel with the highest Cetane rating.

ruking1

xwesx said:

Yeah, it's really too bad that fuel prices are so unstable. It makes no sense at all to base a purchasing decision primarily on the price of fuel with the market as it is.

Indeed. IF one goes through my fuel postings, they really have ALL been snapshots. Most of those snapshots, diesel has cost MORE than RUG/MG/PUG. Most articles have stated that in these days of CHEAPER RUG prices, light trucks to LARGE CARS have been HOT sellers. So whether it makes sense or not, a far amount to many purchasing decisions ARE based on the price of RUG/MG/PUG, /WITH the market as it is.

gagrice

Most articles have stated that in these days of CHEAPER RUG prices, light trucks to LARGE CARS have been HOT sellers.

That is absolutely true. The high price of oil in the 1970s opened the car market for the Japanese to bring in their little toot toot cars. Then as the price of oil went down in the 1980s and 90s PU trucks and SUVs became popular. I don't think PU sales passed up sedans until the 1990s. The 1970s also saw small diesel PU trucks from several manufacturers. Cannot remember how they got around the 1963 Chicken Tax. Seems like several small PU trucks had diesel engines. I think they did final assembly here to avoid the 25% tariff. More than one way to skin a chicken.

xwesx

Hahahaha, yes, yes, yes! Sadly, yes.

ruking1

xwesx said:

Hahahaha, yes, yes, yes! Sadly, yes.

I am laughing @ your response. I get the feeling you get the deeper implications.

ruking1

gagrice said:

Most articles have stated that in these days of CHEAPER RUG prices, light trucks to LARGE CARS have been HOT sellers.

That is absolutely true. The high price of oil in the 1970s opened the car market for the Japanese to bring in their little toot toot cars. Then as the price of oil went down in the 1980s and 90s PU trucks and SUVs became popular. I don't think PU sales passed up sedans until the 1990s. The 1970s also saw small diesel PU trucks from several manufacturers. Cannot remember how they got around the 1963 Chicken Tax. Seems like several small PU trucks had diesel engines. I think they did final assembly here to avoid the 25% tariff. More than one way to skin a chicken.

I would think it interesting that in app 45 years, the small car PVF is @ 25%, aka, STILL the minority % of cars. I did not (nor do now) know what % of the PVF WERE small cars in 1970. But I do (anecdotally) recall my small car (70 VW Beetle) being an outlier. Also @ that time you literally would have had to GIVE me a Japanese car to drive !!!

F/F to 2015, most Japanese OEMS have evolved from being rolling P 's of C , to 2 having excellent reliability and durability ratings.

gagrice

But I do (anecdotally) recall my small car (70 VW Beetle) was an outlier.

Beetles were popular down here in 1970. I bought a 1967 and rebuilt the engine before heading to Alaska in it. I got tired of adjusting the valves every 3k miles. They were fairly high maintenance engines. Seems like it was a 1200 that I boosted up to an 1800. I found out in Whitehorse UK that it was a gray market Beetle when my master cylinder went out and the local VW dealer did not have the right one. I think they imported them from various locations. And a variety of parts. I drove the rest of the way to Anchorage using my emergency brake to stop. Very scary on the downhills covered with snowpack or ice.

PS
I drove a new Beetle TDI recently and I could enjoy that car.

ruking1

..."The base model 2015 Cruiser comes with all-wheel drive. Powering is with a 3.0-liter 16-valve four-cylinder diesel engine that develops 190 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque. Other options are 5.7-liter 32-valve V8 petrol engine (381 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque) and 4.0-liter V6 Dual VVT-i petrol engine (282 horse power). Driving safely on the ground is provided with a 5-speed automatic transmission, which has “artificial intelligence”. As for fuel economy, it rated with 24/33 mpg in city/highway and with 29 mpg in combined drive."...

http://newcars2016.net/2015-toyota-land-cruiser/

One might ask why does it STILL takes a far greater L's and a V6 to V8 gasser to match like model 4 cylinder 3.0 L TDI, the V8 gasser getting 16 to 18 mpg vs the TDI's 29 mpg ? TDI getting 61% better MPG.

(N/A US markets)

ruking1

gagrice said:

But I do (anecdotally) recall my small car (70 VW Beetle) was an outlier.

Beetles were popular down here in 1970. I bought a 1967 and rebuilt the engine before heading to Alaska in it. I got tired of adjusting the valves every 3k miles. They were fairly high maintenance engines. Seems like it was a 1200 that I boosted up to an 1800. I found out in Whitehorse UK that it was a gray market Beetle when my master cylinder went out and the local VW dealer did not have the right one. I think they imported them from various locations. And a variety of parts. I drove the rest of the way to Anchorage using my emergency brake to stop. Very scary on the downhills covered with snowpack or ice.

PS
I drove a new Beetle TDI recently and I could enjoy that car.

Oh yeah ! I am glad THESE (2015) ARE the good ole days !!! I used to do 1,500 to 2,500 miles OCI's !!! I used to cringe if I approached a 3,000 miles OCI !!!! (fear of SLUDGE)

Now, as I have posted (after new car warranties) 30,000 miles OCI's. (NO fear of sludge)