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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    The "options" opaques the higher %'s and volumes of taxations. Tax (9.75%) on a $30,000 car would be a whopping $2,925. With say, $15,000 in options, that wold push the PRICE up and additional taxation would now be $1,463. Selling @ 50,000 miles would put your cost per mile driven:taxation @ .0585. Options would add .02926 CPMD: taxation.

    Again, this is further opaque on Resale, since the same % (In my case 9.75%) taxation is AGAIN levied on the downstream buyer, on a now LOWER PP. So, IF CA can STRIP away mandatory road taxations for OTHER THAN mandatory ROAD REPAIR, the mechanism is already there to do it to the taxation one pays on CAR purchases for ,.... ROAD REPAIR. It is also logical that it be done !!! It is NOT of course.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    ruking1 said:
    Pretty cool stuff, but a large part of that equation is totally negated by real-world trucking demands. For example.... skirting, shaping, and solar panels on the trailer. It's a pretty rare thing for a tractor to pull the same trailer more than for one leg of the journey! What are that tractor's results when pulling just your basic, run-of-the-mill trailer that you pick up from customer A and drop off at customer B on the other side of the country?

    Still improvement is improvement! My mother drives a 2014 Freightliner with many of the tech goodies mentioned in that article. While the predictive terrain technology can be very nice in helping her truck to maintain speed (both up and down mountains), apparently it also gets easily confused with the right chain of events. So, part of it is training the truck, and the other part is training the driver!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    gagrice said:

    I wonder if the Flex does not use QNX system. If Ford switched. I like the Flex, if it was offered with a diesel it would be on my list.

    I am not sure, but I think this is a fairly recent change, so I think the ones at which I'm looking (2013 MY and older) are Sync. And, yes, I sure would like it to have a diesel option, but alas, it is what it is. Considering between it and the diesel options out there, I just cannot reconcile the cost/benefit amongst all the give and take (features, economy, space, handling, etc). Still strongly considering diesel, but it will probably end up being the Forester's replacement rather than the Fiesta's.

    Ah, and we're having some sort of transaxle issue with the Forester. Sad stuff, but doesn't look good for the transmission/center/front differential unit at this point... and only 82K miles! At least I have a factory extended warranty to 100K/7yr. LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    xwesx said:

    ruking1 said:
    Pretty cool stuff, but a large part of that equation is totally negated by real-world trucking demands. For example.... skirting, shaping, and solar panels on the trailer. It's a pretty rare thing for a tractor to pull the same trailer more than for one leg of the journey! What are that tractor's results when pulling just your basic, run-of-the-mill trailer that you pick up from customer A and drop off at customer B on the other side of the country?

    Still improvement is improvement! My mother drives a 2014 Freightliner with many of the tech goodies mentioned in that article. While the predictive terrain technology can be very nice in helping her truck to maintain speed (both up and down mountains), apparently it also gets easily confused with the right chain of events. So, part of it is training the truck, and the other part is training the driver!

    That really is why I made a point of highlighting percentages ! ..."Totally negated"... by the real world is code for why bother? Another is, why even pay? Yet, you did not even mention what mpg improvement your Mom's experiencing, due to tech goodies, not to mention why she even sprung for them.

    There are really diesel advantages: bleed off or bleed down to diesel passenger cars. An easy one we/I talk about is better to WAY better EPA mpg. Another is bette higher altitude operation. It doesn't hurt either than mpg fall off @ altitude is a lot less than gassers.

    Why I would spring for charging enhancements in PVF diesels ? 24/7 and "custom" current draws kill conventional batteries almost in half. Putting even more current draw items puts even a greater load even faster loss, etc. Not that you would know this, but in TLC's, I am used to batteries lasting 9/11 years. Less belts to run systems off the engine cuts down on parasitic hp/torque losses, etc. Charging in theory could power electrical product and keep batteries lasting LONGER 9/11 years PLUS.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    ruking1 said:

    you did not even mention what mpg improvement your Mom's experiencing, due to tech goodies, not to mention why she even sprung for them.

    Well, she team-drives for a major national company, so they manage the trucks and assign her a new one every 250,000 miles (about 12 months). Those trucks then go to single drivers, who take about two years to put another 250,000 on them, then the company sells it shortly before the expiration of its factory warranty.

    So, I imagine there's cost motivation for them, but I don't know how that stacks up against alternatives. Her current unit runs 6.5-7 mpg on average. They have things like speed limiters, over-speed charges, and other behavior modifiers. The terrain system saves fuel and brakes, which, in the long term, saves time, and (when all else is said and done) the world of trucking is all about time.

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    xwesx said:

    ruking1 said:

    you did not even mention what mpg improvement your Mom's experiencing, due to tech goodies, not to mention why she even sprung for them.

    Well, she team-drives for a major national company, so they manage the trucks and assign her a new one every 250,000 miles (about 12 months). Those trucks then go to single drivers, who take about two years to put another 250,000 on them, then the company sells it shortly before the expiration of its factory warranty.

    So, I imagine there's cost motivation for them, but I don't know how that stacks up against alternatives. Her current unit runs 6.5-7 mpg on average. They have things like speed limiters, over-speed charges, and other behavior modifiers. The terrain system saves fuel and brakes, which, in the long term, saves time, and (when all else is said and done) the world of trucking is all about time.

    OK. let's start with the avg mpg being 5.7 . So you are posting 14 to 23 % better mpg !!!!! HUGE !
    Assuming 2.99 per gal, that is close to $ 49.3 k in fuel savings. That is .0986 per mile driven SAVED. Again SOUNDS small/like a nit, but HUGE HUGE HUGE.

    The trickle down for me (in theory) would put 34.5 mpg to 39.33 to 42.44 mpg. But as you would agree, @ what cost?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    xwesx said:

    Ah, and we're having some sort of transaxle issue with the Forester.

    Been pulling stumps again? :p

    Love to hear some more "mom" stories. Does she ever complain about the fuel smell?

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Pray tell, nexus to the CVT! ??
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    xwesx: Still strongly considering diesel, but it will probably end up being the Forester's replacement rather than the Fiesta's.

    If you have a Mercedes dealer, you can do a European delivery on a new GLK250 Bluetec, and take a nice EU vacation. They say the savings more than pay for the vacation.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Indeed ! Driving Europe has never been removed from my bucket list. (in another life was going to live in Europe for 3 years min to 6 years) European delivery to be able to do that (taking 3/4 months) has been added.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    stever said:

    xwesx said:

    Ah, and we're having some sort of transaxle issue with the Forester.

    Been pulling stumps again? :p

    Love to hear some more "mom" stories. Does she ever complain about the fuel smell?

    LOL No, why would I do that?! :D

    I'm actually rather surprised about the issue, given that we don't do anything other than drive this car. We do occasionally pull a trailer, but even that is well under the 2,000# limit. I think it may just be some sort of odd manufacturing thing that is developing over time. It's always been "noisy" during cold weather (this is my fourth Sube, so I know that's not normal even with stock fluids, which our Forester never has), but it seems to be going from cold-weather-only to more persistent. I changed the fluid at 44K, looked fine. I checked it last week.... not so good. LOL

    I'm going to change it soon and pull a sample for analysis at Blackstone. Judging by the coloration, there's some serious issues going on in there!

    My mother, who is 58, and her husband, do long-haul team-driving. They've done this for about four years now (time is not my friend with these sorts of things) after having done flagging for oversize rigs during the windmill craze days (is that still going on?). They really enjoy it overall, but they see all sorts of crazy stuff out there on the highways!

    Fuel smell?! Come on, Steve! These are brand new trucks that probably run far cleaner than you (or I) do. :p
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    YUP Steve HATES my 2003 VW Jetta TDI ;) He thinks it a bain to the LA metropolitan air quality. Keep us abreast of the Subbies A/T issues.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, I was kind of thinking more of the truck stop "aroma".

    Still plenty of windmill blade hauling, mostly up north of us though.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    gagrice said:

    If you have a Mercedes dealer, you can do a European delivery on a new GLK250 Bluetec, and take a nice EU vacation. They say the savings more than pay for the vacation.

    That sure would be a neat experience! Something for another time, perhaps. ;)

    We have a new project at hand, actually. Wife wants to pick up some acreage in PA. So, we're going through the motions on that to figure out feasibility, etc. You know, because life in one location is just too simple.

    But, the good news is that it might give me an "out" on this Fiesta. I'm thinking that I'll take it down there and leave it as our runabout, along with a little utility trailer to make it useful. That way, if she wants to spend some time down there (solo), she can just fly in rather than needing the extra three weeks of driving there and back (again?). For a single person traveling, the drive loses it's cost-effectiveness vs. flying.

    So, then I have a legitimate excuse to need another car. Heheh.

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    ruking1 said:

    YUP Steve HATES my 2003 VW Jetta TDI ;) He thinks it a bain to the LA metropolitan air quality. Keep us abreast of the Subbies A/T issues.

    Oh, I failed to clarify: This one has the 5M/T rather than 4EAT (or CVT, which I think came in the 11 or 12 MY?).

    Hah! Steve, honestly, neither of them have ever mentioned that at all. Usually it's stories about other drivers' behaviors!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    We can do the same with Casino buses. Some even have WIFI . :D . She can give me a heads up. It is easy to time picking her up, so she doesn't have to wait. South Tahoe, CA is also a FAV destination (C/C) for small bug smashers and fly clubs are not far from here OAK, SFO, SJO, also. CP's seem to work on trips we have taken.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have a new project at hand, actually. Wife wants to pick up some acreage in PA. So, we're going through the motions on that to figure out feasibility, etc. You know, because life in one location is just too simple.

    PA, has some good tax benefits for retirees. Their gas tax is not one of them. Pretty country. I was born in Erie.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited March 2015
    gagrice said:

    Pretty country. I was born in Erie.

    So was my wife! She grew up there and a little south in Crawford County. This property is in that area.

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Funny, current temp in Meadville is 10 degrees cooler than FBX. Guess y'all want some more "weather" eh?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    MB PU truck?

    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/mercedes-benz-makes-pickup-giddy-partner-203000118.html

    AH,... MB PU truck 1.1, English back story?

    http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-new-mercedes-pic-1694119709

    Silicon Valley may be the new R & D area for auto oems

    ..."The technical transition to a connected car is already under way. Industry researcher IHS Automotive estimates between 10% and 25% of the cost of making cars and light trucks now is linked to software."...

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-mercedes-set-up-shop-in-silicon-valley-1427475558?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_business
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wanna be an auto tech? Learn to code....

    "For the time being, stronger demand is confined to gasoline. Diesel sales at the end of last year were little changed compared with the same period in 2013.

    The gasoline/diesel split suggests extra demand is coming from private motorists since gasoline is mostly used in private cars and small trucks while diesel dominates the medium and heavy truck sector."

    California motorists hit the road again (Reuters)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    It does goes to show that the system wants the 95% gassers to consume MORE GAS!!!! ??? The EC's are in DEnial.

    The diesel conclusion can be a tad bit misleading, and on more than a few levels! One could be due to the realities that MEASURING the LESS than 2.5% diesel cars ( increase/decrease/remains the same) consumption is very hard. They really do HATE it when LESS is consumed. Or they really don't want folks to consume LESS by switching TO diesel.

    So let's see VW Touareg gasser 20 mpg, TDI 32 mpg. WAY less profit % in RUG/PUG. ! Offer a few cents cheaper over ULSD ! ?? Pretty clear to most folks.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Interesting email from VW customer care. They told me they have no plans to use QNX OS in their future vehicles. And they included this link dated Jan 5 2015: http://media.vw.com/release/908/

    Yet on the same day this article came out from CES stating QNX is going to be the system VW will use. Not sure if their person in uninformed or it is a secret alliance.

    "At Volkswagen, we believe deeply in delivering the highest quality driving experience, regardless of the cost, size, and features of the vehicle. The scalable architecture of the QNX platform is well-suited to our approach, enabling us to offer a full range of infotainment systems, from premium level to mass volume, using a single, proven software base for our Modular Infotainment Modules (MIB) and the RNS 850 system," said Alf Pollex, Head of Connected Car and Infotainment, Volkswagen AG.

    http://crackberry.com/qnx-provides-software-platform-volkswagen-infotainment-systems
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    lol, and people complain that GM staffers don't talk to each other.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    lol, and people complain that GM staffers don't talk to each other.

    I did email him back with the link and quote from the head guy. I love to stir the pot. I told him I was fed up with their lax attitude toward Navteq and the crappy mapping software. I would love to be the testbed for the new system.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    gagrice said:

    AvalonSo I would be for a tax where the trucks are paying 9,600 times more to take into account the damage they are causing.

    If the Interstate highways were built to the mandate by the Federal government, they should NOT be damaging to the roads. They were supposed to be designed to carry heavy military loads. Secondly, I hope you do not believe that the road tax is not passed on to the consumer of the goods in the truck?

    If the eco nuts have their way all the oil production will go away, and you won't have those nasty trucks messing up your highways in ND. Your state has plenty of room to raise gas/diesel taxes to keep up the roads. You are well below the national average. I can tell you I complained a lot more about the sub standard gas we get in CA than I ever do about the diesel. And most of the time they are close in price even with the higher state taxes. RUG 63.79 cents per gallon ULSD 65 cents per gallon. I would be really complaining if I lived in PA were they are dinging diesel at 88 cents per gallon. A full 20 cents above RUG. No wonder many people go to NJ for fuel. Less than half the tax.

    http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-january-2015.pdf

    The road tax is passed on to the local consumer, just that it is not high enough to take into account the wear and tear caused by large vehicles. The low tax makes it too easy to ship things great distances and puts local companies at a disadvantage.

    ND is a welfare state. For every $1 we send to the Feds in taxes we get back about $3.85 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state Do you think ND will turn back the money? Unlikely. All the oil taxes are going toward building a large war chest.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    It is easy to see with 44% "(22) welfare states," why there was support (not enough) for CA to cede from the union AND form its own country. The Fed will yet again do civil war (#2) IF there ever was enough support among the other 28 "other" states. ND is probably saying thank GOD for South Carolina. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    It is easy to see with 44% "(22) welfare states," why there was support (not enough) for CA to cede from the union AND form its own country. The Fed will yet again do civil war (#2) IF there ever was enough support among the other 28 "other" states. ND is probably saying thank GOD for South Carolina. ;)

    There are so many fallacies in those reports. Looks like ND has moved up to 35th place now. Unless they remove all the expenses for military installations in the states, it is NOT a good indicator of what is paid and what is received by the states. Most of the reports are intended as political rhetoric. The writers have an agenda. Notice the states touted as getting the least back are in dire straits, CA & IL.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/24/most-dependent-states-in-the-us_n_6930634.html

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    I'd say without a doubt ! I think in a lot of cases TMI serves useful functions in inducing "deer in the headlights" type reactions.

    Here is one with diesel (RUG/PUG also) implications.

    US becoming 'refiner to the world' as diesel demand grows
    Patti Domm | @pattidomm
    Wednesday, 7 Aug 2013 | 10:59 AM ET

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100943620

    Why is Brent Crude used as a WW spot price fixing when Brent Crude is a literal puddle of inventory vs a Pacific Ocean of say SA or US inventories? So for example, WTC is cheaper per barrel? It is also WAY more relevant.


    Here is the one I like:

    ..."As of mid-year, margins on U.S. Gulf Coast-produced diesel were running just above $16 barrel, while the margins on finished gasoline were much lower at just under $8 barrel, and that trend is not new. The data were provided by Valero in a recent investor presentation."...

    YET, the price of diesel is LESS than RUG/PUG. ! ? More normally, the price of ULSD is ... MORE! So, IF all they do is make a couple basis points LESS PROFIT (not even ONE percentage) THEN, ULSD SHOULD be PERMANENTLY..... CHEAPER . ! ? Or, ... they could transfer those profit %'s and volume LOSSes to .... RUG/PUG ie.much higher prices. :D:DB) Put that together with 30 to 60% better ULSD mpg....... !!!!! ????

    So the current administration, who has gone on record wanting $10. USD gasoline, has done its level best to strangle, to kill this juggernaut and overwhelming natural advantages. Needless to say the efforts are HUGE jobs killers.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is a good article. No mention of the 2 million barrels per day from Canada Tar Sands. Many of the upgrades to our refineries was to handle that resource. At least we have something the rest of the World wants that is "Made in USA" No one wants our GMO crops anymore.

    "The U.S. was the breadbasket to the world. Now we're the refiner to the world," he said.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed, this is probably the ONLY article ( that I have come across, for wider spread consumption) that actually DARES to indicate the profit % in diesel/RUG/PUG refining !!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Something else sticks out. All the anti Keystone XL rhetoric claimed the oil was to be exported. According to the above report we cannot export crude oil.

    Analysts also say U.S. petroleum products are probably slightly more expensive because of the export market, but it's hard to say how much. While refined products can be exported, raw crude oil cannot be.

    All I have read is the Tar Sands will be processed at refineries in the USA. That means a LOT more jobs than just 35 rent a cops watching the Keystone pipeline. Question will we destroy another part of our economy to satisfy the few? Nothing is pollution free including Tesla EVs.

    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/for-canada-tar-sands-are-bigger-than-keystone-xl-17543
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Perhaps that is one issue. a Demo Congress wanted to KEEP that archaic law/regulation! (Put in by RMN POTUS administration) Because raw crude oil and refined products are fungible, there are NO practical barriers to exporting "foreign" Canadian raw crude (and by inference DOMESTIC oil) and then down stream, "Canadian" by then, US refined products. Another might be: why would the current BHO administration want to help out a trusted ally? (or our own industry) He has VETO power ! ? Another is another no brainer: LESS to no tax revenue for some years! So for example the article says it will cost $ 1 B for a " x" barrels increase in productive capacity, ULSD. (I am no CPA) So depending on the amortization schedule/s, Congress will in effect GRANT (if approved) a 1 B write off up to tax credits. Short sight would dictate why get less tax money, when you can disapprove and keep the tax revenue UP !?

    Based on past results, there are NO questions in my mind we overwhelmingly chose to destroy LARGE parts of our economies. The pollution issue is PURELY tactical, and a total NON issue, They are there so fairy tales can opaque AND continue the hidden realities.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    1. yes, the 'we want your used XXX car' thing is just a marketing scam. they want your money, not your vehicle.

    2. section 179 tax rules are a reason to buy a diesel if you own a business. If you can depreciate/itemize/deduct your Big Money Diesel Car, that is a great incentive to own a more expensive (e.g. diesel) vehicle. Diesels are often exorbitantly more expensive than their gasser counterparts, although good deals can be had too!
    Lots more drivers consider a more expensive (diesel) vehicles if they charged it to their business, but most of us work for someone else who gets the tax deductions. So we drive gassers due to their much lower-entry-cost, and often lower operating costs, and less rube-goldberg emissions stuff to break, because we gotta be to work on time and can't afford to be BSing around at the dealership/mechanic getting warranty service or any other service..

    3. QNX is great, i've worked with it a bunch over decades.. It is quite the solidOS/embedded-microkernel.

    4. i see lots of recent press coverage about how 'millennials' (e.g. youngsters) shop for cars based on tech, and this is driving auto industry sales. gagrice, you do rock - you are doing the same thing, you are totally in tune with kids. but please confirm for us that you don't have spinner wheels on your 2-reg, because they won't help the trade-in value.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    elias said:

    1. yes, the 'we want your used XXX car' thing is just a marketing scam. they want your money, not your vehicle.

    2. section 179 tax rules are a reason to buy a diesel if you own a business. If you can depreciate/itemize/deduct your Big Money Diesel Car, that is a great incentive to own a more expensive (e.g. diesel) vehicle. Diesels are often exorbitantly more expensive than their gasser counterparts, although good deals can be had too!
    Lots more drivers consider a more expensive (diesel) vehicles if they charged it to their business, but most of us work for someone else who gets the tax deductions. So we drive gassers due to their much lower-entry-cost, and often lower operating costs, and less rube-goldberg emissions stuff to break, because we gotta be to work on time and can't afford to be BSing around at the dealership/mechanic getting warranty service or any other service..

    3. QNX is great, i've worked with it a bunch over decades.. It is quite the solidOS/embedded-microkernel.

    4. i see lots of recent press coverage about how 'millennials' (e.g. youngsters) shop for cars based on tech, and this is driving auto industry sales. gagrice, you do rock - you are doing the same thing, you are totally in tune with kids. but please confirm for us that you don't have spinner wheels on your 2-reg, because they won't help the trade-in value.

    First off I hate all the exterior Bling crap. I wish the Touareg came with plain 17" vs the 19" wheels and tires. I don't want anything to make the vehicle more attractive to the criminal element.

    Second, I got interested in the Navigation when we bought the 2007 Sequoia Limited. My joy went to frustration the first time I used it going home. It took a longer routing. Which did not give me much confidence to start with. As time went on and we were taken to gas stations that had been closed for years, I realized just how poor the mapping and especially the POI database was. The Touareg has the added features of Bluetooth and the ability to add MP3 via SD cards so the flaky mapping from NavTeq (Microsoft) was just a continuing irritation. I knew Audi was bringing out a system that you could use Google maps. Which I have found after breaking down and buying a Samsung Note 4 to be very good. While looking through the CES headlines the VW/QNX headline caught my attention.

    Third, service. I had to take my Sequoia to the Dealer every 5k miles as required. The Toyota dealer which went out of business the following year was 35 miles from home. They dinged me $54 for an oil change with cheapo dino oil. They wanted over $90 to use synthetic. Walmart did the same oil change with Mobil One for $48. The Touareg only requires service every 10k miles and the service is free the first 4 years and 48k miles.

    An indicator of how much more I like to drive the Touareg over the Sequoia. When we sold the Sequoia to my wife's grand daughter it had 35k miles and 10 months left on the 7 year extended warranty I bought. We paid for the warranty when the Nav/entertainment froze up replacement cost $2200. She used the warranty to replace a defective rear view mirror it saved her $1200. She loves the Sequoia with two babies and several trips per year to visit the in-laws in Tahoe.

    We have put 22,000 miles on the Touareg in a year and a half. And I cannot wait to get out on the road again. As comfortable as the Sequoia was on long trips, it did not compare to the Touareg TDI. Our first trip East I drove from home to Big Springs TX over 1000 miles. Not by choice. Just could not find a motel room in West TX I would stay in. We try to stay under 650 miles a day, which is a tank of diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    elias said:

    1. yes, the 'we want your used XXX car' thing is just a marketing scam. they want your money, not your vehicle.

    2. section 179 tax rules are a reason to buy a diesel if you own a business. If you can depreciate/itemize/deduct your Big Money Diesel Car, that is a great incentive to own a more expensive (e.g. diesel) vehicle. Diesels are often exorbitantly more expensive than their gasser counterparts, although good deals can be had too!
    Lots more drivers consider a more expensive (diesel) vehicles if they charged it to their business, but most of us work for someone else who gets the tax deductions. So we drive gassers due to their much lower-entry-cost, and often lower operating costs, and less rube-goldberg emissions stuff to break, because we gotta be to work on time and can't afford to be BSing around at the dealership/mechanic getting warranty service or any other service..

    3. QNX is great, i've worked with it a bunch over decades.. It is quite the solidOS/embedded-microkernel.

    4. i see lots of recent press coverage about how 'millennials' (e.g. youngsters) shop for cars based on tech, and this is driving auto industry sales. gagrice, you do rock - you are doing the same thing, you are totally in tune with kids. but please confirm for us that you don't have spinner wheels on your 2-reg, because they won't help the trade-in value.


    1. Being as how most cars are gassers (95% +), its a no brainer to say they probably get more monies and %'s from GASSER vehicles.

    2. Again, as most are gassers (95% + PVF), another no brainer to say most who are able to use this IRS Section 179 do so with much more expensive... gassers. I'd say most who buy diesels fit your #2 para 2's description. Diesel owners I I have ask, look at me like, IRS section 179 ????????

    For whatever reasons, you seem touchy on this topic, to the point of myopia. Other than IRS section 179, 15 IRS regulations allow for .565 cents per mile driven, if one travels for business. Again, the overwhelming majority of folks who can use this, do so with gassers (95% +)

    4. Less tech works for me. I am ok with "cheap" Costco GPS's and smart phone Google Maps. But then on the other hand, neither has much to do with diesels.

    4. This one has 18 in wheels and I wish they were the even smaller sized (17 in) (not available oem in US markets )

    It would seem the bigger sized and ever wider tire treads ( and past H rated) wear faster, cost more and harder to find, and more delicate. My preference is for "the balance" that yields closer to 90,000 miles than ...less. Smaller tires also seem to post better mpg than larger ones. This would be a modifying variable with diesels AND gassers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Here is an interesting off topic article (macro, aka overall conditions not good for gassers, diesels for that matter ) in where 4 diesels (anecdotally) seem to do pretty well.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_27809931/traffic-surges-i-580-and-highway-101-gateways?source=infinite

    Which States Have The Most Diesel Vehicles? New Data Gives Results
    Green Car Reports By John Voelcker
    2 hours ago

    ..."The data showed that the highest increases in diesel registrations came in California, Massachusetts and Nevada, with year-over-year increases of 23.7 percent, 21.0 percent, and 17.8 percent respectively.

    Western states, including Idaho, Montana, and Nevada have the highest percentage of diesel vehicles on their roads.

    ..."There are now a total of 7.4 million diesel cars and SUVs on U.S. roads, out of a total vehicle pool of roughly 250 million."'''

    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/states-most-diesel-vehicles-data-gives-results-130000843.html

    Data is a tad cut & pasted or disjointed. 2012 NHSTA lists the Registered PVF @ 265.647 M http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx So the PVF as of 2012 WAS app 15.6 M more.

    So this would put diesels PVF @ app 2.79 % (% is in arrears, minus 2013,2014,2015 MY's RPVF)

    Golf SW TDI lease rate ADVANTAGE ?

    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/2015-vw-golf-sportwagen-lease-tdi-better-gasoline-123000729.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Financial talking head this morning indicated both STRONG dollar AND THE weakest Euro in quite a while ! Against that backdrop, German oems are probably therefore doubly motivate to sell product in other markets, such as US markets, given weak domestic (European) PVF markets. Specifically, VW STILL wants to top Toyota, MB wants to best BMW, etc., etc.

    So truly, IF one IS in the markets, it is better to have advantages working for one, rather than against.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2015
    China has cooled and the US is back driving the global economy. India is still plugging away though. Meanwhile, we're using less gas and driving less, even with cheap fuel.

    Strange headline about an injury accident spotted on the news this morning - diesel semi hauling gasoline hits a Prius. :'(
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Specifically, VW STILL wants to top Toyota, MB wants to best BMW, etc., etc.
    So truly, IF one IS in the markets, it is better to have advantages working for one, rather than against.


    It would seem that VW is getting serious again about sales in the US. MB making generous offers is likely a result of them getting knocked off the top last year by BMW. They all seem to be offering more diesels, which I find encouraging. I think the X3 diesel and GLK BT are well placed. Looks like the GLK has a slight edge mileage wise over the 4 cylinder BMW. Not to mention 90 more foot lbs of torque. The GLK is better placed for those not quite in the market for an all out luxury CUV also. I think it is a heck of a CUV for under $40k. Audi went the power route and barely beats the Touareg for mileage while giving up lots of size. The Q5 with a 4 cylinder that is offered in the EU would be more to my liking.

    Diesel prices coming down and the open road to Oregon is calling me. Our friend SLorenzen just emailed the Rhodedendrons are blooming, about a month early.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    stever said:

    China has cooled and the US is back driving the global economy. India is still plugging away though. Meanwhile, we're using less gas and driving less, even with cheap fuel.

    Strange headline about an injury accident spotted on the news this morning - diesel semi hauling gasoline hits a Prius. :'(

    I am a tad bit perplexed you didn't FURTHER highlight this EDMUNDS.com article !!!

    There are many data points to spark many issues of discussion, DESPITE it almost totally overlooking diesels potential to even FURTHER drop consumption percentages. Prices also. It does need to be noted that an EXCELLENT over all job HAS been done.

    It would SEEM the "powers that be" which guides the over all policy/processes seem reluctant for the folks (consumers) who have done the "heavy lifting" so to speak, to share in the fruits of their endeavors, decisions, compliance, AND all important EXECUTION.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    gagrice said:

    Specifically, VW STILL wants to top Toyota, MB wants to best BMW, etc., etc.
    So truly, IF one IS in the markets, it is better to have advantages working for one, rather than against.


    It would seem that VW is getting serious again about sales in the US. MB making generous offers is likely a result of them getting knocked off the top last year by BMW. They all seem to be offering more diesels, which I find encouraging. I think the X3 diesel and GLK BT are well placed. Looks like the GLK has a slight edge mileage wise over the 4 cylinder BMW. Not to mention 90 more foot lbs of torque. The GLK is better placed for those not quite in the market for an all out luxury CUV also. I think it is a heck of a CUV for under $40k. Audi went the power route and barely beats the Touareg for mileage while giving up lots of size. The Q5 with a 4 cylinder that is offered in the EU would be more to my liking.

    Diesel prices coming down and the open road to Oregon is calling me. Our friend SLorenzen just emailed the Rhodedendrons are blooming, about a month early.

    I think we would probably agree, diesels in majority gasser markets (95% +) are an acquired taste. Not to leave any oem out, but it would seem the fore mentioned diesel oems (MB, BMW, VW) have the potential of posting a banner diesel sales year. It should of course add to the diesels PVF %'s.

    It is also interesting that MB has put the 2.1 L TT 4 cylinder BT engine in a number of models with WIDE price points.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    ruking1 said:

    I am a tad bit perplexed you didn't FURTHER highlight this EDMUNDS.com article !!!

    Well, it just went live today and comments on the editorial content now gets lumped in with the forum discussions, so if people are interested, they can post there (or here....). So far, not a lot of interest in the story.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    stever said:

    ruking1 said:

    I am a tad bit perplexed you didn't FURTHER highlight this EDMUNDS.com article !!!

    Well, it just went live today and comments on the editorial content now gets lumped in with the forum discussions, so if people are interested, they can post there (or here....). So far, not a lot of interest in the story.

    While folks "SAY" that mpg is a priority, a lot of factors indicate it is not a HIGH or even deal breaking priority, for a lot of folks.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think Steve posted this article about Ford switching from Microsoft to QNX for their infotainment and navigation. Reading some blogs, from those that seem to be in the know, the consensus to the problem is Ford not Microsoft. Ford kluged up the OS they bought from Microsoft. Ford is like the little monkey trying to push the big Gorilla around, and did not want to pay the big bucks to fix their mess. QNX is already there with the right bells and whistles. I am waiting to hear back on my email inquiry to QNX.

    The move to QNX’s CAR platform will provide Ford developers with a whole class of mobile platform capabilities that Sync currently lacks, including better support for touch displays, HTML5 and Qt-based applications, and a number of auto-centric interface enhancements that Microsoft hasn’t been able to bring to Ford—at least at the embedded level—all at a price Ford was willing to pay.

    Given BlackBerry’s ongoing restructuring, the deal with Ford could be a major boost to the company’s future. QNX is already being used by Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Acura, Porsche, Saab, and Hyundai for their in-car systems. Shifting to QNX could also help Ford in its effort to turn AppLink into an industry standard for mobile device application integration.


    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/ford-drops-microsoft-will-use-blackberrys-realtime-os-for-next-sync/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    It is hard to figure out Microsoft ! ??? A few years ago they put outposts "down here in dah hood". http://www.microsoftsiliconvalley.com/home/msvstory

    So given BB's resurrection from the dead, yes the QNX is in a sweet spot. Hopefully VW has a solution to the (your) NAV issue. For me, the 12 VW Touareg TDI AND the 14 MB GLK 250 BT did not have NAV, which was fine for US. Indeed none of my diesels has NAV.

    I realize auto computer hardware and software are huge markets and battle grounds. For us, the smart phones, I pads, laptops and portable GPS really highlight the need for better charging and operating platforms. Something like a hotel safe would be neat, so all this hardware does not need to be shuffled around.

    This might seem like over kill, but three to 4 positions (in our case) would add easily up to 3 hours of productive time per day, per work station.(it actually does now) So in a years time, it can add 720 hours of work related productivity. Not that commuting is fun, but it does keep a huge set of locational living ares VIABLE into the future.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If I had not gotten $10k off the Sequoia Limited or $7k off the Touareg TDI Lux, I would have probably gone to a lower level and bought after market electronics. The end of the season sales usually have the higher end models that have not sold. Looks like VW dropped the Sport without Nav for 2015. And kicked up the price. I have never used the panoramic moon roof so that is not a plus. 19" wheels to me are a negative. I may try to get the dealer to swap with me for the 18" off of a Sport model. I do like the Michelins I now have better than the OEM Goodyears that Discount Tire replaced.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2015
    Indeed on ALL counts !

    Just on TMI:

    I am glad to hear you like the Michelins !! I remember you doing REAL good on the price ! ;) It is good to have those anecdotal data points!

    Another data point:

    So far I am happy with the Continental Cross Contacts LX20's (18 in). It is good in snow (although NOT a snow tire) Good in the commute, interstates, wet, dry, desert AND mountain roads ! Wear is approaching 20,000 miles per 1/32nd in !! ?? It's run @ 3 psi above the door placard values (oem highway recommendation). MPG remains pretty much the same as I have posted in the past.

    As it applies to the DIESEL thread, these CUV tires are @ cross purposes. So, iterations in this CUV tire segment are a series of pretty radical compromises.

    I just hooked up the trickle charger to the 12 VW Touareg TDI. For just being operated, it took a fairly long time to get the charge back up to 100% from a less than 80% charge.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    ruking1 said:

    It is easy to see with 44% "(22) welfare states," why there was support (not enough) for CA to cede from the union AND form its own country. The Fed will yet again do civil war (#2) IF there ever was enough support among the other 28 "other" states. ND is probably saying thank GOD for South Carolina. ;)

    Those of us here do appreciate the tax dollars flowing into ND from states like CA & NJ. My property tax has been dropping as is the income tax. The extra money lets me buy a new car every few years, take nice vacations to exotic places and pay for the kids college. Thanks. B)
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