What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

xwesx

That's an interesting read in terms of the methodology to come up with the conclusions. From a practical standpoint, it is probably a good way to go. Did you intend to link it?

ruking1

The good news, MOST cars are able to post a minimum of 100,000 miles ( with normal scheduled maintenance). Caveat Emptor should be ONE guiding principle, if one is considering one of the mentioned BRANDS and its models.

Some folks on the other hand, buy the HIGHLY rated brands and specific model vehicles for reliability & durability.

On topic, but really OFF topic:

So far on the 2009 VW Jetta TDI (just under 100,000 miles, warts & all)

"unscheduled" maintenance has been: (nothing DIESEL per se)

1. front low beam, $8.00 dealer installed
2. 2 brake lamps, $.00 & dealer
3. 2 trunk struts (only one broke, changed both), $30.
4. battery, $126. dealer installed (5.5 year)
5. HPFP. (VW A picked up the repair tab - I would pitch a fit if they didn't, so no harm no foul)
6. tires, $535. (89,000 miles, but was shooting for 100,000 + aka,) do NOT skip rotations!
7. alignment $80. (didn't need it, but @ 89,000 miles, an optional preventative task)

So for 120,000 miles (first major tune due) @ 41 mpg, I project to use approximately 2,927 gals of ULSD. (4,800 gals @ 25 mpg gas)

ruking1

..."So for 120,000 miles (first major tune due) @ 41 mpg, I project to use approximately 2,927 gals of ULSD. (4,800 gals @ 25 mpg gas)"... 2009 VW Jetta TDI

@ today's prices, I am ok with projected savings $6,560.

( @2.99 ULSD -$8,752- $3.19 Pug $15,312= like model)

On the 2003 VW Jetta TDI @ 187,000 miles @ 50 mpg @ 3,740 gal vs @25 mpg 7,480 gals.

@ today's prices, I am ok with projected savings of $12,678

(@ 2.99 ULSD-$ 11,183-3.19 PUG $23,861= like model))

ruking1

Interesting article on how things weave together @ VW. Two hand and glove issues are too many employees @ too high wages. When Toyota, Ford AND GM have better sales & earnings per employee,..... those are some serious show stopping issues.

Volkswagen Strains to Keep Foot on the Gas
Management shift at VW signals company’s bid to reverse iconic brand’s sliding sales, profits

By WILLIAM BOSTON
Updated Dec. 10, 2014 9:50 p.m. ET
25 COMMENTS

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-strains-to-keep-foot-on-gas-1418259788

stever

Partial state ownership, union representation on the board, family board members fighting over the execs. Fun company in a Days of Our Lives sort of way.

ruking1

Some would consider factors like that NIRVANA !!

Yet, I think there are a lot of folks (on this board) that STILL do not see why I continue to say the US market VW model line are SCREAMING DIESELS opportunities. (including gassers, hybrids) VW diesels are by FAR the more, to most AFFORDABLE DIESELS, from basic on up to fully optioned.

One can gather their own conclusions on those diesels 1 to 5 years old to close to 100,000 miles to app 187,000 miles. Resale values are excellent, all things being equal. This is truly conjecture, but @ 200,000 miles, when the next major tune is due, on the 2003 VW Jetta TDI, I do not anticipate anything over the timing belt/water pump, the 30 or so bolts/parts kit that will need changing, and the computer values reset.

After an app 10% dip in 2014 sales from 2013, it will be interesting what %'s/ #'s VW 2015 US market sales will post ! VW's 2014 MY market share was @ .02224 % (2.224%). 367 k units are a ways from VW's 850 k targets.

ruking1

Add #

ruking1

i hope this translates over to electrical power, which should affect ULSD to the down side.

http://www.mercurynews.com/drought/ci_27954116/california-drought-court-rules-tiered-water-rates-violate

ruking1

Slow diesel news day

ULSD $ 2.99

RUG $ 3.01
MG $ 3.11
PUG $ 3.21

stever

$2.61 here. Just had Michigander houseguests visiting in their Chevy Duramax 2500 pulling a little Airstream.

ruking1

I almost hate to ask. What mpg did they get?

I do not know this to be normal, but VW TDI owners who tow (7,700#'s max) report app 17/19 mpg.

stever

13 to 15 towing.... Was a Dallas truck he got off eBay, drove it back to the UP, dumped the transmission a couple of hours from home. Not sure he needed it but the dealer talked him into a new water pump around the same time. So the eBay "deal" wound up costing $2,000 extra.

Oh, he drives 60 in it. Some idiot also towing cut him off heading for San Diego a week or so ago and promptly slammed on their brakes. Our friends stopped with plenty of room but the idiot wound up jack-knifing.

He's thinking Amtrak for the next visit south LOL.

ruking1

WOW, those would be way more "UN scheduled " surprises than I would like on a road trip ! I am glad your friend didn't get involved in the short cutters "DRAMA". I am sure they probably had those white knuckled hair raising moments. On the other hand, he was involved in some broken transmission drama.

While I didn't make a decision to get the TDI based on the Aisin 8 speed AT with 627 # feet of torque CAPABILITY for an engine with #406 # ft, I have to say I 'm glad it is not only STOUT, but has a BIG safety factor. (54.4%) While all indictors point to a very long AT life, mileage will tell the story. I do enjoy how the 8 speed A/T works VERY well with the 3.0 L TDI V6.

ruking1

I am not sure what this means, but this month, last year @ this time, the local MB dealer was lucky to have 3 GLK 250 B/T's !!! FF, I notice 49 units in inventory !!!!!

gagrice

I think you hit it. MB did not count on the GLK BT being a big hit. What's not to like, luxury AWD CUV for a bargain price. From the sales in March, I would say they had not gotten their heads out of you know where. I checked on them a couple months ago and only a couple GLK BT in San Diego. Today there is a over a dozen. If April sales are a lot better than March we will know the reason. Not that MB would ever admit their diesel sales.

ruking1

gagrice said:

I think you hit it. MB did not count on the GLK BT being a big hit. What's not to like, luxury AWD CUV for a bargain price. From the sales in March, I would say they had not gotten their heads out of you know where. I checked on them a couple months ago and only a couple GLK BT in San Diego. Today there is a over a dozen. If April sales are a lot better than March we will know the reason. Not that MB would ever admit their diesel sales.

Perhaps I should also mention the 49 units in inventory GLK 250 B/T MSRP's ranged from lowest to highest (app $20k spread) I am guessing the 12 near you are similarly MSRP'ed. MB financial is offering a very special 2.99 % This is a HUGE % increase in the rates, since I bought a scant 1 year ago !!!!

The gas side (GLK 350) had 50 inventory units ! SO 49.5% DIESEL GLK's.

Got a rising/RAISING gas prices gas buddy.com heads up !

I guess the Gov Moonbeam and BHO POTUS "discount show days" are OVER !!! Got to get back to the real world over taxing ways !!!! Got to get rid of those fracking jobs to boot !

stever

Gas is rising fast here.

The "usual" differential could switch soon, in more places besides California (hellenicshippingnews.com).

ruking1

stever said:

Gas is rising fast here.

The "usual" differential could switch soon, in more places besides California (hellenicshippingnews.com).

It is more than obvious the 40+ year ban on exporting domestic crude has outlived its usefulness. So IF it has enough votes to get reversed, I have read it is BULLISH for domestic gas prices (HIGHER) Aother advantage might be the in the positive US balance of payments.

On a slower note, I have read in passing the diesel option for the 16 Chevrolet Cruz will not be offered.

stever

I'm waiting for the fracking moratorium pending more earthquake studies to help "juice" fuel prices a bit.

Elon is strongly hinting about home storage batteries and that could have an interesting affect on utilities and power generation. Might make "flexible" natural gas electric generation more valuable as opposed to crank and burn coal and nuke.

gagrice

stever said:

I'm waiting for the fracking moratorium pending more earthquake studies to help "juice" fuel prices a bit.

Elon is strongly hinting about home storage batteries and that could have an interesting affect on utilities and power generation. Might make "flexible" natural gas electric generation more valuable as opposed to crank and burn coal and nuke.

Does the idea of small earthquakes bother people more than a nuclear meltdown like Fukishima? Several new improvements in fracking that will make it environmentally better.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/03/140319-5-technologies-for-greener-fracking/

I see utilities already hurting here with so many solar panels and mandatory buyback of unused KWs. As for Elon and his Li-Ion batteries in huge stacks in my home to get me off the grid, NO WAY. Why spend huge amounts for high tech batteries when Lead Acid batteries will last longer without near the issues.

Any future home I buy will have Natural gas. Propane is a killer, at least around here. Costco will fill your tanks for your RV at $1.69 per. My propane delivery still charges $2.99. Last fill up was $3.27. With NG a back up capable of handing the whole home would be a good option. I could experiment on which is cheaper.

xwesx

Wow; those are great prices on propane! I paid $3.45/gal last week to fill my tanks (and that wasn't delivery, that was me hauling those 100# beasts onto my cargo tray, into town, and then back again full). I'm thrilled that this is only a once-every-eighteen-months exercise.

I've considered building a battery array in my basement for outages, as I have the perfect (non-intrusive) place to do so, but I just haven't convinced myself that it would be worth the time, effort, cost, OR space yet.

But, short answer, yes, I'd much rather have a nuclear plant than fracking; the water supply is a precious thing.

gagrice

You should mention it to your Costco people. They may decide it is worth it to sell Propane.

Supposedly the newer methods of fracking will not pollute the water??

Prudhe Bay has not started selling 25 trillion cubic feet of Natural Gas being pumped back into the ground. You should get some decent prices on NG if and when that happens.

ruking1

Real slow diesel day here, so I was pleasantly surprised to find out a friend (reconnected by email with after 36 years, but have known this person since we both were 5 years old) has a DIESEL 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser LC 100, 4.2 L CD with 70,000 miles. They just LOVE it and is the BEST " workhorse" they have ever owned. I am trying to get more details. Since it is not a US market vehicle. it would be hard to make direct like model US market comparisons.

Speaking about global warming. might tempt one to wonder why they do NOT global warm stuff like THIS ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/04/23/scientists-find-missing-link-in-yellowstone-plumbing-this-giant-volcano-is-very-much-alive/?tid=pm_national_pop_b

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/23/scientists-discover-new-mass-extinction-rivaling-the-death-of-the-dinosaurs/?tid=hybrid_linearcol_2_na

So I surmise the current VW plan is back on the front burner?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-chairman-ferdinand-piech-resigns-1429978992

ruking1

Are BHO's and Gov Moonbeam's RUG/PUG discount parties OVER?

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_27988790/rising-gas-prices-will-continue-soar?source=infinite

stever

A big bump in pump prices means that EVs and hybrid sales will get back on track - as well as the high speed rail. Seems like that would crank the party back up again, not kill it. Depending on which party you want to crash.

Who knows, maybe the French will also fall out of love with nuclear. French fall out of love with diesel (connexionfrance.com)

And here's an oddball Scientific American headline: Japan Now Has More EV Chargers Than Gas Stations

Interesting graph in the article showing a "steady decline [in the US] for “mainstream fuels” (gasoline/diesel) between 1993-2012 (the least year in which Census data was available)".

To paraphrase POTUS, a hybrid is on my bucket list. (If you saw the correspondent's dinner clips, you know that could taken a couple of different ways. )

ruking1

"And here's an oddball Scientific American headline: Japan Now Has More EV Chargers Than Gas Stations"

That might be Japan's cue to legalize MJ ?

It works in CO, a state known for massive energy reserves, the Fed wants to KILL !!!

Slow news diesel day

ULSD $ 2.99

RUG $3.19

MG $ 3.29

PUG $3.39

stever

They are crazy over there - it'll be decades and billions before they come close to getting Fukushima under control and yet they want to reopen and build new nukes (heh, it'll be about that long and about that expensive before we even figure out WIPP). Maybe Elon's batteries will get all those EV outlets converted to solar sourced power.

gagrice

High Speed rail is a joke. It will be the train to nowhere. They don't have the funding. We have the lowest credit rating in the US. And only a fraction of the right of ways are secured. And the real joke is the fact that it will not be a fast train. Only 200 MPH tops. It can be used to haul illegals from Bakersfield to Fresno.

Almost 1,300 pieces of property are needed for the high-speed rail right of way and structures like bridges and road overpasses from the northeastern edge of Madera to just northwest of Bakersfield. That includes 522 in the first construction segment from Avenue 17 in Madera to American Avenue south of Fresno. But as of mid-March, the rail agency has only been able to deliver 137 parcels to its contractor.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/04/10/4471838_state-authorizes-condemnation.html?rh=1

stever

Ah, they said the same thing about the trolley. Our recent Michigan company parked and rode the trolley into the city a couple of weeks ago and spent some money. Otherwise they wouldn't have hauled their trailer to the city (even if they were in a diesel pickemup truck).

1,300 parcels would just get you 325 roundabouts.

I'd love to get out to the home office in LA and then take the train up to San Fran for a couple of days.

gagrice

It will not be in your life time. The very earliest projection is 2039. I will be 97 how old will you be? Something about flying through the San Joaquin Valley at 200 MPH on an old style 1970s high speed train does not give me any kind of wishful desires. I would feel more nostalgic on a 1940s steam engine making the trip.

stever

Took a trip on the top of a boxcar one time. I knew enough to take my contacts out and wear my glasses, but it took three days to wash the grime off my face. Diesel locomotive, but the cinders from steam would have been worse.

Too bad the rail didn't get off the ground back in the early 90s when Arnold (and maybe Davis?) were backing it. Took 20 years just to get around to passing Prop 1A.

elias

try the roaring camp railroad for the steam train experience...

in diesel news, i am car shopping and looking at zero diesels despite the VW dealer proximity. only chevys are on my short list, replacing a chevy cruze, too bad there aren't any cruze diesels with stickshift to look at.

and diesel fuel cost remains too much more than RUG here in new england..... but not much more than PUG.

gagrice

stever said:

Took a trip on the top of a boxcar one time. I knew enough to take my contacts out and wear my glasses, but it took three days to wash the grime off my face. Diesel locomotive, but the cinders from steam would have been worse.

Too bad the rail didn't get off the ground back in the early 90s when Arnold (and maybe Davis?) were backing it. Took 20 years just to get around to passing Prop 1A.

The problem with many things in the USA is our individualism. We are not collectivist by birth or nature. The High speed rail has had NIMBY problems since it first hit the drawing board. They decided to start in the middle where it was the easiest to get right of ways. Japan the most successful are run by private companies that make a profit. When you go from point A with 10 million people to point B with 4 million people there will be demand.

For a bankrupt state to waste that kind of money just does not make sense. Glad my retirement does not depend on the state of CA.

To relate it to diesel. The proposed HSR fare of $98 from LAX to SFO is just triple the cost of diesel just spent going the same distance. With no check in hassles. No $15 per day to leave my car or $100 shuttle service to the station. For us air travel is no longer an option. Hard to imagine the hassle HSR will be in 15-20 years. For $230 in diesel we had a 2519 mile vacation, with NO schedules to keep, no being groped by TSA perverts, and we managed to get through Los Angeles both directions without any big delays.

stever

Wait til you see the $45 daily parking fees for San Fran.

ruking1

elias said:

try the roaring camp railroad for the steam train experience...

in diesel news, i am car shopping and looking at zero diesels despite the VW dealer proximity. only chevys are on my short list, replacing a chevy cruze, too bad there aren't any cruze diesels with stickshift to look at.

and diesel fuel cost remains too much more than RUG here in new england..... but not much more than PUG.

Happy car shopping, sans diesel !!!

Some posts ago, I posted a link indicating 2016 Chevrolet Cruse will not offer the diesel option.

I think they had to grossly OVER build ( too many $$'s) the diesel optioned Cruz to compete with the "run of the mill" European diesel . While many diesel Cruse owners post being happy, there are not many who commented on differences (between Cruse & European diesels). I am surmising they did not make NEAR the monies on a diesel vs gasser Cruz (despite superior labor costs on both) . Indeed, the diesel may not have been profitable @ all, even @ an app $ 6.2 k premium ! ? I still have no clue as to the Cruse's TDI %.

Interesting take on ONE (BIG THREE) world wide competitor (VW, GM, Toyota)

http://news.yahoo.com/vw-chairman-quits-questions-over-future-remain-160609504.html

..."The company (VW, my sic) earns only 540 euros ($584) per car in profit before interest and taxes, according to an analysis by Ferdinand Dudenhoeffer at the University of Duisburg-Essen.

Compare that to 1,647 euros per car for Toyota and 783 euros per car for General Motors."...

gagrice

I think they had to grossly OVER build ( too many $$'s) the diesel optioned Cruz to compete with the "run of the mill" European diesel .

GM owners have long memories. They are still hurting from the lousy diesels offered in the 1980s. Did they advertise them at all? I know Rocky loves the one he has leased. He is a convert until he can afford a Tesla. As for sales, if the Cruze diesel is not selling any better than the Volt, time to pull the plug. They are rare around here. Never seen a diesel and only one Volt. Volt sold less than a thousand last month. We have 146 for sale in San Diego right now and only 16 Cruze diesels.

ruking1

Until VW hits app 5.4 % of the US markets (from 2.3% per link) VW's will continue to offer the best of both higher quality, workmanship AND value of the top 3 WW oems ! The "PERCEIVED" issues in reliability and durability will probably continue to dog them. The diesels have already established a bette reputation in both reliability and durability.

So while the HPFP issue has been absolutely true (in 800 documented cases (NHTSA), it is in the context of 241,000 + diesels for .00332 %,) a tad less than 1/3 of 1%. Of those, there have been a select few due to actually fuel cross contamination.

No harm no foul IF VW takes care of those 800 more or less cases either under warranty or OUT of warranty, either as policy or on a case by case basis.

ruking1

Here is an interesting take on drinking the global warming "kool aid".

..."mayors drink recycled sewage to push expanding reclaimed water"
By Paul Rogers

http://www.mercurynews.com

Funny, all the (auto) coolant (diesel) systems call for PURE distilled water.

gagrice

I would venture to say most of the water sold to US by the local utilities has some stuff that ain't good for US in it. Most that I have tasted was pretty nasty out of the tap. Best to have your own reverse osmosis system for drinking water. It does waste a lot of water. But when you look at what comes out in the flush cycle you are glad it is there. Even good well water needs regular testing. When the government says it is safe to drink. They mean you will not drop over dead. When I lived in Havasu the utility warned against long term usage of the water. It would cause arthritis from the high levels of alkaline. Safe to drink is a very ambiguous term, I would not trust.

ruking1

Talking heads from TrueCar, on CNBC cable tv are projecting 17.1 M new 2015 car sales.

Last year's new car sales were 16.5 M.

CNBC is broadcasting live from up the street, 45 miles (SF,CA) against a BLACK outdoor (Bay Bridge allegedly) background.

SLOW diesel news day

ULSD $3.09

RUG $3.39, (12.8% more) MG $ 3.49, (12.9% more) PUG $ 3.59 (16.2% more)

ruking1

Turns out Honda, a US gasser market oem is having "SLOW sales" issues.

Honda’s Profit Drops 43% on Slow Sales, Recall Costs
U.S. dollar strength also a factor in auto maker missing its full-year targets
by YOKO KUBOTA
Updated April 28, 2015 8:16 a.m. ET

http://www.wsj.com/articles/honda-aims-for-profit-growth-this-fiscal-year-1430204175

ruking1

IF one is shopping for a gasser, given the (above) posted article, I hope it is easy to see that 15 Honda's presents consumers buying opportunities ? !

TMI : ?

I debated whether to post this following article or not, for they didn't specifically mention DIESEL HPFP's ! (by nexus, Bosch fuel pumps WOULD affect the majority of those 15 gassers (Nissan, BMW, VW, Audi)

So for example, I am unclear IF and HOW it would affect/effect the HPFP's in VW's Jetta TDI's 2009, VW Touareg TDI 2012. The HPFP issue might even drift over, i.e., to the 2014 MB's (my case GLK 250 BT).

So, I do NOT wish to infer ANYTHING beyond what the article specifically mentions. BUT it does imply what happened to my 2009 VW JETTA TDI HPFP is probably NOT diesel ONLY related, albeit, extremely LOW incidence rate (less than 1/3 of 1%- 800/241,000+).

Bosch Fuel Pump Recall Expands To Include 2015 Volkswagen Golf, GTI, Audi A3
By Richard Read

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1098023_bosch-fuel-pump-recall-expands-to-include-2015-volkswagen-golf-gti-audi-a3

elias

agreed that hpfp issues are not limited to diesels. as for honda incentives, they don't have much of interest to me. their cr-Z stickshift model is interesting. i'd be cross-shopping chevrolet sonic stickshift hatchback 6-speed if i go that direction. sonic probably gets better mpg and has more room/hatchback and $2k less price.
Aside from that CR-Z, i'm interested in one of those Honda rosie-looking-robots. It could keep track of my glasses and the tv remote controls, and get me coffee.

nyccarguy

I saw an interesting post on the Mercedes-GL Class lease questions board. A poster asked the money factor (interest rate) and residual value of a GL 450 (Gasser) for a 3 year/ 15K per year lease and how it compared to that of a GL 350 BlueTec (Diesel). The host replied that both cars have the same 58% residual (set by MB Financial), but the gasser model (currently) has a .0013 money factor (3.12%) while it's diesel counterpart has a money factor in the neighborhood of .0018 (4.32%) - .0022 (5.28%). Assuming both vehicles have the exact same MSRP & exact same discount (I know this is sort of a vacuum question) and are driven the same 45K miles over 3 years, does the diesel make sense (and cents) from a financial perspective?

qbrozen

well, not that I'm going to do the math anyway, but someone who wants to is going to need to know the selling price to be able to calculate the interest difference. My gut tells me 1.2% isn't going to amount to a hell of a lot, but I've been known to be wrong on the rare occasion.

ruking1

Divide $$'s per month 1,250 miles/year 45,000 miles= cost per mile driven: lease.

In terms of cost per mile driven, fuel: $ .1677 vs $ .09116 = 84% MORE for gasser.

Using MB GLK 350/250 BT 22/35 mpg for 2,045 gals ($3.69, PUG)/1,286 gals (3.19 ULSD)

($7,546.00 - $4,102= $3,444/36= $96.00 per month saved.)

Michaell

qbrozen said:

well, not that I'm going to do the math anyway, but someone who wants to is going to need to know the selling price to be able to calculate the interest difference. My gut tells me 1.2% isn't going to amount to a hell of a lot, but I've been known to be wrong on the rare occasion.

All else being equal ($80K MSRP, $75K cap cost), the difference between .00130 and .00180 is $50/mo, or $1800 over 36 months.

I don't think you'd save enough money in fuel costs over 36 months to make up that extra interest charge.

It's my opinion that choosing a diesel engine makes better sense financially for the long term rather than the short term.

ruking1

elias said:

agreed that hpfp issues are not limited to diesels. as for honda incentives, they don't have much of interest to me. their cr-Z stickshift model is interesting. i'd be cross-shopping chevrolet sonic stickshift hatchback 6-speed if i go that direction. sonic probably gets better mpg and has more room/hatchback and $2k less price.
Aside from that CR-Z, i'm interested in one of those Honda rosie-looking-robots. It could keep track of my glasses and the tv remote controls, and get me coffee.

Works for me ! OEM's that make cars you might be interested in (probably) do not offer a diesel option.

It is (more than) clear the diesel option (going forward) has not been a viable choice for you. That has been apparent for a long time. Approximately 95% +of the PVF owners agree with you.

This is not sound bite able.

American oems are having real cost issues making diesels down to the quality level of (like model) gassers. (i.e., Cruse, Chevrolet puts a 6.2k MSRP diesel premium. I am not privy to the actual up cost. ) I project and suspect that is true in the majority of cases.

So to me, IF I was wanting a CRUSE, the (diesel) cruse is WAY better built than the gasser. BUT if I wanted the better built car in a gasser, THEN,... I would (probably) be disappointed.

Conversely to run a diesel requires a better built car which, .... costs more. So I can surmise why Chevrolet is dropping the diesel cruse, like I did in a past post.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

well, not that I'm going to do the math anyway, but someone who wants to is going to need to know the selling price to be able to calculate the interest difference. My gut tells me 1.2% isn't going to amount to a hell of a lot, but I've been known to be wrong on the rare occasion.

All else being equal ($80K MSRP, $75K cap cost), the difference between .00130 and .00180 is $50/mo, or $1800 over 36 months.

I don't think you'd save enough money in fuel costs over 36 months to make up that extra interest charge.

It's my opinion that choosing a diesel engine makes better sense financially for the long term rather than the short term.

$75k? Yikes!
I'm also a bit surprised that the bluetec's average is only 3mpg better. Just looking at the numbers of fueleconomy.gov, the diesel would only save $350/yr on average.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

well, not that I'm going to do the math anyway, but someone who wants to is going to need to know the selling price to be able to calculate the interest difference. My gut tells me 1.2% isn't going to amount to a hell of a lot, but I've been known to be wrong on the rare occasion.

All else being equal ($80K MSRP, $75K cap cost), the difference between .00130 and .00180 is $50/mo, or $1800 over 36 months.

I don't think you'd save enough money in fuel costs over 36 months to make up that extra interest charge.

It's my opinion that choosing a diesel engine makes better sense financially for the long term rather than the short term.

$75k? Yikes!
I'm also a bit surprised that the bluetec's average is only 3mpg better. Just looking at the numbers of fueleconomy.gov, the diesel would only save $350/yr on average.

Oh, I have no idea what the GL stickers for, nor what kind of discount is available, or if the discount is more or less for the gas or diesel. I just used some representative numbers to show the difference.

Your mileage may vary.