What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

Sounds like their taxes are higher, plus we have ~6 times as many "freeway" miles to maintain as they do. Just look at the number of four lanes there vs. here (Wiki says the longest stretch of four lane in the EU is 21km). LA proper probably has more miles of five lanes than that.

fintail

Their taxes are higher - but IIRC, those taxes also subsidize transit. And virtually nobody complains!

gagrice

fintail said:

Their taxes are higher - but IIRC, those taxes also subsidize transit. And virtually nobody complains!

I complain. Don't think anyone is listening. San Diego was rated the most efficient mass transit in the USA. It only costs the tax payers $1 per passenger. I guess that is something to be happy about.

fintail

I meant in Europe. I doubt any transit system is self-sufficient anywhere. It isn't expected to be, it's a social good.

gagrice said:

I complain. Don't think anyone is listening. San Diego was rated the most efficient mass transit in the USA. It only costs the tax payers $1 per passenger. I guess that is something to be happy about.

ruking1

Fare box recovery has never been even close to B/E. The underlying assumption has always been that folks would drop off taking it should it come close to B/E, let alone makea profit.

fintail

Switching from hybrid to diesel - I expect some protests up there, huge greenie-weenie population.

cdnpinhead

stever said:

. . . says the longest stretch of four lane in the EU is 21km). .

This is feces. Frankfort alone has more miles of 4-lane (one way), and I've driven on it. European motorways or autobahns or whatever the Italians and French call theirs are world-class.

Gotta love the internet.

ruking1

fintail said:

Switching from hybrid to diesel - I expect some protests up there, huge greenie-weenie population.

Too funny!!! All they need to do is buy one more hybrid bus, (if their 10% less reliability has any truth to it) per 8 hybrid busses Too bad they didn't figure out the reliability booby trap beforehand. HUGE diesel advantage, especially since they are adding 7 more diesel busses to their fleet, instead of 8 more hybrids.

ruking1

The VW Golf Sportswagen TDI is a mellow sort of car that inspires a particular kind of admiration, says Dan Neil who found himself pondering the fate of his test car

VW Golf SportsWagen: A Special Kind of Love

http://www.wsj.com/articles/vw-golf-sportswagen-a-special-kind-of-love-1432323688

Michaell

A little help for a fellow TDI driver, please?

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34552/audi/a3/a3-tdi-270-miles-new-broke-down#latest

ruking1

Since this is a generic answer, I will keep it on this board.

First of all, get the car looked @by the dealer, as you suspect the contributing cause falls under warranty and periods AND the faults were not fixed correctly the first time. Get Audi USA in the loop also. Another would be to let them (Audi USA/dealer) handle the repairs. As a minimum, I would want a new car. I would surmise this incident shoul be reported to the NHTSA .

Six, get a good auto personal injury attorney. They can coordinate the various issues (lemon laws, etc), or @ the minimum give you legal advice about actions and remedies.

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Since this is a generic answer, I will keep it on this board.

First of all, get the car looked @by the dealer, as you suspect the contributing cause falls under warranty and periods AND the faults were not fixed correctly the first time. Get Audi USA in the loop also. Another would be to let them (Audi USA/dealer) handle the repairs. As a minimum, I would want a new car. I would surmise this incident shoul be reported to the NHTSA .

Six, get a good auto personal injury attorney. They can coordinate the various issues (lemon laws, etc), or @ the minimum give you legal advice about actions and remedies.

Can you repost in that discussion? Doubtful the OP will find this thread.

ruking1

Re-Posted.

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Re-Posted.

Much obliged.

stever

Chrysler is whacking powertrain warranties. But not for diesels.

This tells me that Chrysler thinks their diesel engines are less troublesome than their gas ones. Don't know if GM did the same when they cut their powertrain coverage a little while back.

Fiat-Chrysler Cuts Powertrain Warranty Coverage on 2016 Vehicles

ruking1

Dropping a (gasser) power train warranty 40% (100k to 60 k miles) is absolutely HUGE !! For my .02 cents , NOT in a good way!! Yet, the narrative seems to be designed to narcotize the action taken !!!!! (like ho hum another slow warranty day, zzzzzzzzzzz NOT! ) Purely from a consumer point of view, it would seem that a 67% (greater miles) better warranty over GM's would be a HUGE competitive advantage. Evidently that is not so. ! ?

So perhaps they are saying what they REALLY mean. They are trying to limit MASSIVE $$$ exposure. So @ 60,001 miles, the figurative,proverbial and literal S O_ _L_ _ _ _!?

In contrast, the 2009 VW TDI's power train warranty was extended (178 %) to 10 years/100,000 miles. (from a 3 year/36,000 miles, IF I remember correctly ? ) So folks can say what or do anything they will about/with VW. To me, that IS stepping up to the plate ! They also stepped up to the plate by covering the expenses on a (out of warranty and) RARE HPFP issue. (800 cases/241,000 units)

gagrice

VW is still 10 year, 100k mile drivetrain. What they did drop is the full free service, I have on my 2013. I also negotiated 4 years, 48k mile full service, bumper to bumper including brakes. I have over two years before I start looking for a replacement.

stever

ruking1 said:

Dropping a (gasser) power train warranty 40% (100k to 60 k miles) is absolutely HUGE !! For my .02 cents , NOT in a good way!! Yet, the narrative seems to be designed to narcotize the action taken !!!!! (like ho hum another slow warranty day) Purely from a consumer point of view, it would seem that a 67% (greater miles) better warranty over GM's would be a HUGE competitive advantage. Evidently that is not so. !

I agree, however GM announced earlier that they were cutting their powertrain warranty back to 5/60 too for 2016 models. And there wasn't much fuss about it.

"The five-year/60,000-mile coverage matches that of many of GM's largest competitors, including Ford, Toyota and Honda. Hyundai and Kia offer a 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain coverage, which the Korean brands bill as "America's Best Warranty."

VW gets no respect - left out of the laundry list at Automotive News.

ruking1

stever said:

ruking1 said:

Dropping a (gasser) power train warranty 40% (100k to 60 k miles) is absolutely HUGE !! For my .02 cents , NOT in a good way!! Yet, the narrative seems to be designed to narcotize the action taken !!!!! (like ho hum another slow warranty day) Purely from a consumer point of view, it would seem that a 67% (greater miles) better warranty over GM's would be a HUGE competitive advantage. Evidently that is not so. !

I agree, however GM announced earlier that they were cutting their powertrain warranty back to 5/60 too for 2016 models. And there wasn't much fuss about it.

"The five-year/60,000-mile coverage matches that of many of GM's largest competitors, including Ford, Toyota and Honda. Hyundai and Kia offer a 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain coverage, which the Korean brands bill as "America's Best Warranty."

VW gets no respect - left out of the laundry list at Automotive News.

Again that might give VW another HUGE ( but probably overlooked) ADVANTAGE !! (based on the real world actions, aka anecdotally)

So should Hyundai and/or KIA go diesel, or ( IF) should I ever will shift back to gassers, they surely still have the warranty edge.

gagrice

If I was looking for a gas sedan, Hyundai would be high on the list. I have several friends with them that are very happy. The 10 years is a big plus.

ruking1

There are also a lot of TMI things hidden in plain sight. VW Consumable seem to last FAR longer, for example. I would want a certain amount of due diligence if /.when I should ever switched to Kia or Hyundai.

For the greater audienc, again the underlying assumption is ANY car should be able to go minimum of 100,000 to 150,000 with just scheduled maintenance.@the first major tune is where most let doubt and fear take over.

ruking1

Just got a VW pamphlet offering 0% APR for 72 months for 2015 VW TDI's. The new platform Golf Sport Wagen is @ .9% for 60 months.

Slow news diesel day with ultra low sulfur diesel at $3.13 . Rug is at $3.49 Mg at $3.59 . Pug is at $3. 69 .

ruking1

gagrice said:

If I was looking for a gas sedan, Hyundai would be high on the list. I have several friends with them that are very happy. The 10 years is a big plus.

I just noticed a TMI on the Kia's built in Georgia. The sheet-metal stamped from galvanized steel, aka unseen higher quality.

Edmunds.com has predicted annualized 2015 MY sales of 17.4 M units. The WSJ predicts 17.8 M.

ruking1

..."Last year, Volkswagen (VOW.Germany) spent $2,6000 per vehicle on R&D, Japan’s Honda (HMC), Nissan (7201.Japan) and Toyota (TM) spent $1910, $1395 and $1124 per vehicle respectively. US’s General Motors (GM) and Ford (F) spent $1121 and $1013. By comparison, Kia and Hyundai spent miserly $497 and $463 only."...

http://blogs.barrons.com/asiastocks/2015/06/02/hyundai-motor-falls-to-four-year-low-why-is-korean-auto-such-a-failure/

I am guessing the VW figure of $2,6000 is a typo. ($2,600?) But then again another hidden advantage to the VW brand?

gagrice

We have been telling VW to get more diesels in the showroom. Maybe they listened. Up 8.1% in May. Best since 2000. All I can say is we told you so.

VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA REPORTS MAY SALES – UP 8% OVER 2014

The Touareg, refreshed for 2015, delivered 700 units: 348 of these were TDI® Clean Diesel models, amounting to 50 percent of its sales.

High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 22.7 percent of sales in May – the highest TDI Mix since August 2014

http://media.vw.com/release/989/

stever

Cheapest diesel here (that I've seen) is $2.63. Cheapest gas at three stations is $2.59. The rest are running $2.67 to 2.75 for regular.

ruking1

Is this one of the REAL bailouts whose can keeps getting kicked down the road?

Chrysler Boss Recruits Activists to Prod GM Into a Merger
Sergio Marchionne believes hedge funds can sway rival’s board to accept his entreaties

By ERIC SYLVERS And JOHN D. STOLL
June 8, 2015 7:42 p.m. ET

..."Mr. Marchionne has said that in the coming years he sees the car industry consolidating around three companies each producing about 15 million cars a year. Volkswagen AG, Toyota Motor Corp. and GM are the industry’s largest manufacturers and produce about 10 million cars a year each. Fiat Chrysler was a distant seventh last year with 4.7 million vehicles made."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chrysler-boss-recruits-activists-to-prod-gm-into-a-merger-1433806966

gagrice

Ford and VW have the best styling in the industry so they should merge.

stever

Subaru could become a full subsidiary of Toyota. Ford could reconnect with Mazda and Volvo, and do the Jag/Land Rover thing with Tata. Nissan/Renault could throw in with Honda and Mitsu.

And they can all hang around while Tesla and Google's autonomous cars eat their lunch.

ruking1

Right part of the "lunch eating procedure" is the 35,000 profit per car! Much of that is due to the MASSIVE fed state and local tax credits AND deductions. Most are unmatched by more conventional power plants.

nyccarguy

Slim Spread - Slow Diesel News Day -

RUG - $2.95/gal
PUG - $3.25/gal
ULDS - $3.13/gal

xwesx

stever said:

Subaru could become a full subsidiary of Toyota. Ford could reconnect with Mazda and Volvo, and do the Jag/Land Rover thing with Tata. Nissan/Renault could throw in with Honda and Mitsu.

And they can all hang around while Tesla and Google's autonomous cars eat their lunch.

No! I like Subaru; I don't want Toyota to destroy them.

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

Subaru could become a full subsidiary of Toyota. Ford could reconnect with Mazda and Volvo, and do the Jag/Land Rover thing with Tata. Nissan/Renault could throw in with Honda and Mitsu. And they can all hang around while Tesla and Google's autonomous cars eat their lunch.

No! I like Subaru; I don't want Toyota to destroy them.

I do too.  I read an article yesterday about how profitable and efficient Subaru is.  Their biggest "problem" is the great demand for their vehicles and how tight supply is.  Toyota is Fuji Heavy Industries biggest investor.  So it might be a matter of time (unfortunately).

ruking1

2015 VW TDI Beetle! ?

http://jalopnik.com/the-volkswagen-beetle-tdi-is-almost-perfect-and-thats-1707087253

ruking1

..."About 21% of the compact cars and 20% of the midsize cars sold during the first quarter ended up in daily rental fleets, up from about 17% in the same period a year earlier, according to the most recently available U.S. registration data. For subcompact cars, the daily rental mix was 28% for the period, up from 24% in the prior year.

Registration data, compiled by IHS Automotive, was provided to The Wall Street Journal by industry sources. IHS declined to confirm the numbers, saying its data is proprietary.

The data presents a troubling caution flag for a U.S. auto industry enjoying the strongest demand in more than a decade. The push toward rental-car fleets indicates a key portion of the market is being artificially supported."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-auto-industry-develops-a-weak-spot-1434364381?mod=WSJ_article_EditorsPicks_6

Small & mid sized SUV's are (predictably) down ! (lower %)

ruking1

They might be chipping away @ one advantage! ?

..."It’s a tall order made more difficult by the parent company’s culture. The VW brand sold 4.6 million cars last year, generating €99.8 billion ($113.2 billion) in revenue. Its scale dwarfs Volkswagen’s other business such as luxury car maker Audi and sports car maker Porsche. But in terms of profitability, the VW brand is a laggard. Porsche generated €14,500 ($16,500) in pretax profit per car last year, compared to €540 at the VW brand, according to IHS Automotive."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/vw-brands-new-chief-known-as-cost-cutter-1434668608?KEYWORDS=vw

xwesx

I'm not sure what point that article is trying to make..... I thought it was common knowledge that luxury makes sacrifice volume for profit (per item sold) and the opposite is true for mass market cars. It is Volkswagen, after all! 540 euro per car at 4.6M cars is ~2.5B euro. That's not too shabby.

ruking1

xwesx said:

I'm not sure what point that article is trying to make..... I thought it was common knowledge that luxury makes sacrifice volume for profit (per item sold) and the opposite is true for mass market cars. It is Volkswagen, after all! 540 euro per car at 4.6M cars is ~2.5B euro. That's not too shabby.

To me the points are quite clear, The various consequences probably merit the discussions.

stever

In India, Diesel car sales hit five-year low on declining customer preference and the NGT order. (economictimes.indiatimes.com)

Paris Smog Obscuring Eiffel Tower Threatens Diesel-Car Dominance (Bloomberg - interesting chart there on diesel's current fuel tax advantages in the EU)

Back home, "For drivers that burn diesel, it's been quite a while since the price for that fuel was cheaper than gasoline.

But according to the AAA's fuel gauge reports today's average price in Bismarck for a gallon of gas rings in at $2.84 comparing to the $2.70 for diesel.

It's hard to remember the last time a gallon of diesel was cheaper than gasoline.

"I think it's been a decade since we've seen this. Maybe back to around the financial crisis," said Mike Rud, North Dakota Petroleum Marketers Association."

Higher Diesel Availability Means Lower Prices (kfyrtv.com)

ruking1

stever said:

In India, Diesel car sales hit five-year low on declining customer preference and the NGT order. (economictimes.indiatimes.com)

Paris Smog Obscuring Eiffel Tower Threatens Diesel-Car Dominance (Bloomberg - interesting chart there on diesel's current fuel tax advantages in the EU)

Back home, "For drivers that burn diesel, it's been quite a while since the price for that fuel was cheaper than gasoline.

But according to the AAA's fuel gauge reports today's average price in Bismarck for a gallon of gas rings in at $2.84 comparing to the $2.70 for diesel.

It's hard to remember the last time a gallon of diesel was cheaper than gasoline.

"I think it's been a decade since we've seen this. Maybe back to around the financial crisis," said Mike Rud, North Dakota Petroleum Marketers Association."

Higher Diesel Availability Means Lower Prices (kfyrtv.com)

Let's hear it for prolonged financial crisis' !

stever

Hit the road, lots of people out there cruising around, and motel rates are high. Tourism does seem to be down here in Taos however. Lots of empty storefronts in the small rural Kansas towns we hit last week. The feedlots and oil workers seem busy though.

Diesel has mostly hit parity with regular with premium running fifty cents higher from my seat of the car observations.

It's interesting to see how effect the tax subsidy for diesel passenger cars has been in the EU from my Bloomberg link.

ruking1

SLOW diesel day here ! ULSD $ 2.99 , RUG $ 3.33 , MG $3.45, PUG $ 3.55

This price is with the full complement/various diesel penalties !

gagrice

Diesel on average is 40-50 cents less in San Diego. Costco gas averaging $3.25 diesel averaging $2.85. I paid $2.92 for my last fill-up with American Express card. Over all average for 25k miles 26.2 MPG. Beats the heck out of my PU at 15 MPG. PU costs today about 22 cents per mile, Touareg costs 11 cents per mile.

stever

"According to the latest Edmunds' data for January-April 2015, diesel models make up 2.9 percent of U.S. retail vehicle registrations. Although that's up from 2.3 percent for the same period in 2010, it's actually a reduction from this time last year when diesels made up 3.1 percent of registrations."

Gas and Diesel Prices Close, But Consumers Not Ready To Rethink Vehicle Choices

stevedebi

stever said:

It's hard to remember the last time a gallon of diesel was cheaper than gasoline.

"I think it's been a decade since we've seen this. Maybe back to around the financial crisis," said Mike Rud, North Dakota Petroleum Marketers Association."

Here in LA, it has been up to a dollar cheaper for several months. At the moment it is about 50 cents cheaper.

stever

We're still around a dime from being at parity with regular. But we're a few years behind LA too, lol.

cdnpinhead

It's possible that CA isn't charging the 0.60 surcharge that started in January (for global warming, doncha know) on diesel, only on gasoline, since diesel is needed for business. CA is paying close to $4/gal for gasoline, while the rest of the country is dealing with something between $2.50 & $3.50.

xwesx

cdnpinhead said:

It's possible that CA isn't charging the 0.60 surcharge that started in January (for global warming, doncha know) on diesel, only on gasoline, since diesel is needed for business. CA is paying close to $4/gal for gasoline, while the rest of the country is dealing with something between $2.50 & $3.50.

That's the (literal) price of progress!

gagrice

Finally VW has a little good news. In spite of the good news, the Passat is still a sales laggard. I don't think the people that buy VW want an Americanized version. Building a factory here may be a big mistake.

VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA REPORTS JUNE SALES GAINING 5.6 PERCENT OVER 2014 Jul 1, 2015

*High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 24 percent of sales in June – the highest TDI mix since April 2014

The Touareg, refreshed for 2015, delivered 561 units: 328 of these were TDI® Clean Diesel models, amounting to 58.5 percent of its sales.


http://media.vw.com/release/1011/

stever

Looks like diesel is saving their bacon at the moment.