Looks like diesel is saving their bacon at the moment.
It would seem so. What I find strange is Audi, BMW and MB do not mention diesel sales in their news media. Yet all 3 are kicking butt on sales. Lexus is still playing catch up to MB and BMW. I have to believe diesel SUVs play a big part in their increased sales numbers. With the negative press in the EU with diesel, they may be keeping quiet.
Gas is still ~$1 cheaper* than this time last year so that advantage isn't in the forefront of people's minds either.
Ram diesel sales are down, at least down per expectations, but that's because they can't make them as fast as they want to. (Forbes) Here's a more positive story from Wards about how FCA is surprised at the demand in spite of the premium cost over the gassers.
Slow news day up here: Lake Tahoe, CA, 4 July weekend holiday.
Sacramento, large grocery store chain: ULSD $2.97, RUG $ 3.09, MG $3.19, PUG $3.29. I like the diesels RANGE, letting one fill near empty and still shop in cheaper areas.
Had a 30min to 45 min delay on the upgrade leg, due to an overturned dump truck . With wife driving, posted 37 mpg. in the MB GLK250 BT.
From Wards: “They were sold out of diesels for the X5. They couldn’t make enough of them,” Lee tells WardsAuto at FCA’s media ride-and-drive last week at the Chelsea, MI, proving grounds.
“We looked at that and said, ‘We can do this with Grand Cherokee,’” he says. “We made a very credible product, next to the X5. News reports were quite glowing about the package. Yet the sales rates never even approached what X5 did.”
FCA executives were shocked several months later when initial response to the same engine in the Ram was strong. “It’s been going up and up and up,” Lee says. “I don’t know where the limit is.”
Probably the same reason VW Touareg does not sell huge numbers. When you get over $50k people want a luxury name plate. The Grand Cherokee in the top trim is a very nice vehicle. Still not a BMW, MB or Audi. As popular as Jeep is there is a stigma when you attach the name FIAT. From my experience with them "Found in A Toilet" is being kind.
Slow news day up here: Lake Tahoe, CA, 4 July weekend holiday.
Sacramento, large grocery store chain: ULSD $2.97, RUG $ 3.09, MG $3.19, PUG $3.29. I like the diesels RANGE, letting one fill near empty and still shop in cheaper areas.
Had a 30min to 45 min delay on the upgrade leg, due to an overturned dump truck . With wife driving, posted 37 mpg. in the MB GLK250 BT.
We filled on the downgrade for pen and ink 36.5 miles a gallon.
Talking heads on financial cable TV Indicate RUG could see two dollars per gallon going forward. That is great on a lot of parameters. It is also good for diesel !
(There are no fossil fuels, compressed natural gases, or expensive battery packs here, just a simple refinement process that is powered by wind and solar and designed to run in any diesel-powered engine. H20 & C02, the splitting releases 02, aka OXYGEN)
Wasn't Toyota hyping some other alternate fuel a few months back? Hydrogen?
Passed a station on the drive home this morning south of Santa Fe and diesel was twelve cents cheaper than regular.
One thing that is very remarkable is that the (described) diesel process is 70% effective contrasted that with gas, @45% effectiveness (using data posted in eia.gov. 56% better). One of the real keys here, it is with the existing technology. It does NOT require ANOTHER whole different infrastructure . Widescale use of this technology would in theory require ( exponentially ) less of a need for barrel of oil infrastructure. The diesel product produce is also fungible with more conventional diesel products .
It's not even to mention a WAY WAY WAY lower infrastructure footprint.
"Car shoppers considering the growing list of diesel vehicles, including the 2015 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel, Porsche Cayenne Diesel and Volkswagen Golf TDI, got some encouraging news from a new University of Michigan study.
The study found that while diesel vehicles may be more expensive to buy or lease than their gasoline counterparts, they can save their owners thousands of dollars within just a few years."
I can tell you it is a great time to own a diesel in California. With RUG headed to the stars close to $4 a gallon this morning. And diesel holding well under $3 per gallon. Round trip to Costco in the Nissan Frontier $6.80, in the Touareg TDI $3.50.
I can tell you it is a great time to own a diesel in California. With RUG headed to the stars close to $4 a gallon this morning. And diesel holding well under $3 per gallon. Round trip to Costco in the Nissan Frontier $6.80, in the Touareg TDI $3.50.
I would also agree . I have been also taking advantage of the DIESEL's no fuel draw & seven and eight speed automatic transmissions (shifting mode- essentially like driving a M/T). Doing the SOS/DD treks, my wife and I post essentially the same mpg, despite one driver going app up to 25 mph faster. ( conventional wisdom wiould have the slower driver getting better mpg ) She too pointed this out. Efforts to show her (several trips) were not met with much success. ( to post far better mph@ lower speeds) She typically is in the 85th + percentile, so she is not a slow driver, but it seems so to me when I back seat her.
Just drove by the Shell up on Interstate 8. $4.64 for RUG. They have diesel at $3.57. It is one of the few stations between El Centro and East San Diego. On Gas Buddy we go from $3.43 to $5.19 for RUG. Lots of stations under $3 for diesel.
summertime diesel prices are nice, alright! all fuel is inexpensive here on the east coast lately, with 87 octane gas dropping closer to 200 cents per gallon. Yet its near 500 cents per gallon in california! ew!
ps, King: gas cars have had the 'no fuel draw' functionality ever since fuel injection... it's not a functionality that is particular to diesels.
also, 85% percentile "FTW" !
A possible explanation for the same mpg for two speeds with 25 mph speed difference is that speed 1 is ~12 mph below optimal mpg speed, and speed 2 is ~12 mph above it. (Every vehicle has a different speed & gear at which it gets maximum mpg.)
VW stickshift diesel will always be on my shortlist of possible vehicles to buy, even though I know odds are good for a random/insanely-expensive expensive engine/emission/fuel system failure by about 100k miles - gotta trade the vehicle away before it hits 80k or 100k, in order to avoid that.
Yes , advantage goes to diesel. If one is comfortable with the increased speed, it does not presents a mpg disadvantage. If one likes going slower, no harm no foul in that regard. So really if the MB GLK 350 (GASSER) had the same characteristics as the diesel I.e., mpg, torque, etc.,we wouldn't even be having this discussion . YET... the ratio of gasser sales is far higher.
So really if that's your fear (of costly break down @. 100,000 miles ) if I were you, I'd stay away from diesel. But that is also no guarantee that your gasser will be trouble-free .
Assuming he's done his research on both sides of the aisle, it is amazing that Edmunds.com doesn't have more discussion threads about used prices on Prius hybrids i.e.,replacement batteries.
Just drove by the Shell up on Interstate 8. $4.64 for RUG. They have diesel at $3.57. It is one of the few stations between El Centro and East San Diego. On Gas Buddy we go from $3.43 to $5.19 for RUG. Lots of stations under $3 for diesel.
We've got it a little better in the KC area. Rug and diesel both about $2.60. Pug about $2.90. First time I can remember diesel being as cheap as rug. It is usually more than pug.
Yes, the real reason for the Prius was not the environmental lack of impact , but it was so huge Toyota trucks and suv's could be sold, AND in HUGE volumes and profits! Not that it matters to me, but Toyota has never revealed the Prius per car profit! It's kept better than a state secret. Where is Edward Snowden when you need him?
LOL; I probably did, too! I took my '69 Econoline out for a short drive around the neighborhood. It was the first time my daughter has ever ridden in it, so it was quite the exciting experience for her. She said, "This is the first time I've ever rode in the van, and it is the first time I've ever rode in a vehicle without a seatbelt!"
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
If you recently traded in a luxury vehicle for a truck, a reporter would like to speak with you. Please email PR@edmunds.com no later than Friday, July 24, 2015 with your daytime contact info and a few words about your decision.
LOL; I probably did, too! I took my '69 Econoline out for a short drive around the neighborhood. It was the first time my daughter has ever ridden in it, so it was quite the exciting experience for her. She said, "This is the first time I've ever rode in the van, and it is the first time I've ever rode in a vehicle without a seatbelt!"
LOL; I probably did, too! I took my '69 Econoline out for a short drive around the neighborhood. It was the first time my daughter has ever ridden in it, so it was quite the exciting experience for her. She said, "This is the first time I've ever rode in the van, and it is the first time I've ever rode in a vehicle without a seatbelt!"
An anecdotal truth for me, I've never been in ANY situation in my whole driving career where I've ever NEEDED a seatbelt, let alone other protective devices (hopefully not a defective Tanaka air bag, aka IED. Yet there is no way that I would ever drive a car without a seatbelt on 99. 9 % of the time.
Rug is approximately 13.3% more than ULSD locally. Given 21 mpg (fuelly.com GLK 350) for PUG ( $3.59) and 37 mpg ( GLK 250 ) for ULSD ($2.99) pmd, PUG is app 113 % MORE than ULSD !
Assuming he's done his research on both sides of the aisle, it is amazing that Edmunds.com doesn't have more discussion threads about used prices on Prius hybrids i.e.,replacement batteries.
Here in New York City's outer boroughs (The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island) a lot of Livery Cabs (taxi cabs that cannot be hailed on the street, but you must call a base for pick up) and Green Taxis (Taxi Cabs painted green that are allowed to pickup street hails in the outer boroughs and in Northern Manhattan) are Prius and Camry Hybrids. These cars are literally driven sometimes 24 hours a day in different shifts. I've seen a bunch of them with over 200K on the odometer still on their original hybrid batteries.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yes, the real reason for the Prius was not the environmental lack of impact , but it was so huge Toyota trucks and suv's could be sold, AND in HUGE volumes and profits! Not that it matters to me, but Toyota has never revealed the Prius per car profit! It's kept better than a state secret. Where is Edward Snowden when you need him?
Excellent Point. Toyota trucks get dismal gas mileage, but manage to sell in droves due to their durability and amazing resale value. I never thought that the Prius pretty much gives Toyota carte blanche to do what it wants with V8, 5 & 6 SPeed Automatic trucks that rake in serious profits!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Assuming he's done his research on both sides of the aisle, it is amazing that Edmunds.com doesn't have more discussion threads about used prices on Prius hybrids i.e.,replacement batteries.
Here in New York City's outer boroughs (The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island) a lot of Livery Cabs (taxi cabs that cannot be hailed on the street, but you must call a base for pick up) and Green Taxis (Taxi Cabs painted green that are allowed to pickup street hails in the outer boroughs and in Northern Manhattan) are Prius and Camry Hybrids. These cars are literally driven sometimes 24 hours a day in different shifts. I've seen a bunch of them with over 200K on the odometer still on their original hybrid batteries.
I totally believe what you say. Perhaps indeed a better application than a 8 cylinder engine taxi cab of the past.
However, I would ask the operative point : why the local congestion authorities don't publish the " massive drop" in air pollution due to this change. The minor point to me is I don't begrudge Toyota their profit levels at all. Put another way, if Corolla had the sales of a Prius, they would've shot it in the head long ago to put it out it out of its sales misery.
I've seen a bunch of them with over 200K on the odometer still on their original hybrid batteries.
"Toyota ... offering a longer warranty on the hybrid-specific components of its hybrid models than the conventional powertrain warranty on its gasoline products. Hybrids get eight years/100,000 miles of coverage compared to five years/60,000 miles." (Auto Guide)
I've seen a bunch of them with over 200K on the odometer still on their original hybrid batteries.
"Toyota ... offering a longer warranty on the hybrid-specific components of its hybrid models than the conventional powertrain warranty on its gasoline products. Hybrids get eight years/100,000 miles of coverage compared to five years/60,000 miles." (Auto Guide)
I am not sure what that REALLY means. My family's going on our 22 year old TLC with 250,000 miles, smog tests as NEW! ZERO smog repairs have been done on it.
No one much cares it seems, but the automakers either offer longer hybrid warranties as a sales gimmick or because they can afford to. I like to think it's because they are more reliable than pure ICE rigs.
No one much cares it seems, but the automakers either offer longer hybrid warranties as a sales gimmick or because they can afford to. I like to think it's because they are more reliable than pure ICE rigs.
Indeed we agree on the much larger issues! This of course triangulate with COST: pmd. Well then @ the 23 year mark will be the comparison So on a 2004 Prius, see you in 2027.
Bought one of the first Cruze Turbo Diesel when they first hit the dealers here in Southern California. To answer the title of the thread, it took a manufacturer other than VW to offer a reasonably affordable car with a diesel. I don't mind the VW products and think they look nice and drive okay, but I've been put off by a lot of the high-pressure mechanical Bosch fuel pump failures. If I'm buying a diesel I'm buying it long-term to maximize the cost of ownership benefits and I wasn't willing to take a risk on a Jetta.
The Passat and the redesigned TDI (that now require diesel exhaust fluid (DEF)) used in the Golf/Jetta/Beetle supposedly use a newer fuel pump design but I'm still not sold on VW long-term quality. The Cruze is also somewhat of an unknown although the basic GM-Fiat engine design has been used in Europe for a few years now. About the only thing I'd like better were if GM offered the powertrain in the Malibu or Impala, although the next-gen Cruze getting a bigger back seat (and hopefully trunk if they can move the DEF tank to a different location than the spare tire well).
Some concerns about diesel and my reasoning for still buying one include prices of fuel, maintenance, and long-term emission component life. In California diesel has historically been close to the price of premium unleaded, occasionally higher, but like what's happening now with market manipulation of gasoline and the increasing taxes it's quite a bit cheaper. Even when a touch more expensive the numbers still work out well for overall cost per mile driven.
The maintenance costs are generally higher and it was nice that GM included oil changes and free DEF top-up for 2/24 but they didn't include draining the water from the fuel filter even though it was listed as required in the service schedule. From this point forward if I had to do oil and filter changes it isn't too expensive as I'll switch over to a full synthetic anyway instead of GM's Dexos2 and if I took it to the dealer (providing my own oil) and had to pay them for the fuel filter drain they only be charge $15 extra. The DEF refill isn't a problem either as it lasts longer than an oil change and when shopping around can be found pretty cheap like amazon.com (or buy cheaper at the pump at a truck stop).
One other maintenance item I'm not thrilled about is the use of a timing belt. Timing chains can stretch and require replacement at high mileage just like a belt, but in a diesel they are generally always going to be an interference engine and a belt break is valvetrain death while a stretching chain wouldn't be so sudden (just like in interference gas engines). The Cruze has a reasonable ~100k mile change interval and it doesn't look to difficult to change but is something to keep on top of.
Since most new engines will run the proverbial "forever" if well maintained, in a passenger car it's not as big a selling point that a diesel engine may last longer. I'm more concerned about the other items bolted to the engine like the transaxle and emission components. The Cruze uses a stout ZF-sourced six-speed auto that's also used in much larger vehicles so I'm concerned about that.
The emission system and diesel particulate filter and catalyst life is something I thought about as they add complexity. In the end it's something to think about but with the longer emission system component warranty isn't much of a concern. Like many new technologies right after they come out, these components would be expensive to replace through the dealer parts system but over time there should probably be more aftermarket replacement support and companies that service the particulate filters off-vehicle, for example, if that's even needed.
VW is getting better reliability reviews, depending on who you talk to.
Strategic Vision just placed VW in a tie for second with GM for new vehicle quality. Number one was Fiat Chrysler. so some will poo-poo the study based on those bedfellows, and initial quality may not translate to long term. (Bloomberg)
Still, it's better than coming in at the bottom.
btw, you have 4 hours to edit your posts in the fourms, @socal_eric. Look for the cog when you hover over the top right of your post across from your member name, and then select Edit.
Bought one of the first Cruze Turbo Diesel when they first hit the dealers here in Southern California.
Thanks for your input. Keep us posted.
Given that the price delta between diesel fuel & gasoline is all over the map across the country, I'm not nearly so pumped up on the notion of my very own diesel vehicle as I once was. I want it to have a manual transmission and other features available all over the world outside North America, but not here.
Bought one of the first Cruze Turbo Diesel when they first hit the dealers here in Southern California.
Thanks for your input. Keep us posted.
Given that the price delta between diesel fuel & gasoline is all over the map across the country, I'm not nearly so pumped up on the notion of my very own diesel vehicle as I once was. I want it to have a manual transmission and other features available all over the world outside North America, but not here.
Either way, good luck with your new venicel.
VW Golf and Golf Sportwagen are available with manuals with the TDI Diesels. In CA right now regular gas is about 1.50 more than diesel per gallon.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Bought one of the first Cruze Turbo Diesel when they first hit the dealers here in Southern California.
Thanks for your input. Keep us posted.
Given that the price delta between diesel fuel & gasoline is all over the map across the country, I'm not nearly so pumped up on the notion of my very own diesel vehicle as I once was. I want it to have a manual transmission and other features available all over the world outside North America, but not here.
Either way, good luck with your new venicel.
By inference, what you're then saying that Am gassers ( like model to like competitors) are closer to that flexibility than are diesels. I don't think that's true overall. To wit, the fact that less than 2.5% are diesel and 95% are gassers, obviously there would be more flexibility in the overall gassers . Any to all of those things are more important to you than the diesel option, so good hunting !
So for example, the GLK 350/250 does not have manual transmissions. So you are probably in a niche market, within a niche market even in gassers. But, how many CUV's ( gassers) have manual transmissions ?
What kind of mileage do you think you will do in the time that you're thinking, i.e., 20 years @ 12,000 miles yr = 240,000 miles? You also need to do PMD (per mile driven) calculations. It should truly shock you. However, MOST Americans will chose the more expensive RUG/PUG options. Any CUV should be able to go easily 100,000 to 150,000 miles with regular maintenance.
I take it FWD is not available in the diesel and AWD is not available in the gasser ? If you do not want, need or have a use for AWD, I wouldn't get it! So to be clear, the best option here, a diesel with FWD.
What kind of mileage do you think you will do in the time that you're thinking, i.e., 20 years @ 12,000 miles yr = 240,000 miles? You also need to do PMD (per mile driven) calculations. It should truly shock you. However, MOST Americans will chose the more expensive RUG/PUG options. Any CUV should be able to go easily 100,000 to 150,000 miles with regular maintenance.
I take it FWD is not available in the diesel and AWD is not available in the gasser ? If you do not want, need or have a use for AWD, I wouldn't get it! So to be clear, the best option here, a diesel with FWD.
You should post that in the other discussion so the OP will see it.
LOL; I probably did, too! I took my '69 Econoline out for a short drive around the neighborhood. It was the first time my daughter has ever ridden in it, so it was quite the exciting experience for her. She said, "This is the first time I've ever rode in the van, and it is the first time I've ever rode in a vehicle without a seatbelt!"
Late response, but I thought I would note that the Econoline didn't have seatbelts from new. However, I installed lap belts on the driver/passenger seats when I finally got it up and running in 1995. It doesn't have any other seats, though, and the kids were in the back. Riding in the back of a cargo van (esp. one with windows all around!) is a fun and unique experience, not unlike riding in the back of a pickup in that regard, that everyone should be so fortunate to experience on occasion.
Happily, it is not a diesel though! That's why it did such a good job canceling out a few hybrid/diesel cars' decidedly better economy/emissions, even though I only drove it about six miles.
Last I noticed, diesel was about five cents cheaper than RUG. That's a pretty impressive shift from the past ten or so years.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I and other folks have got to love how cool and seamless this is and remains. We just recently had guests coming up the SOS/DD route in a Volvo T6 AWD @ 22 mpg with torque closer to the 35 mpg VW Touareg TDI ( awesome machine btw, 385' 406 # ft, both had 8 sp a/t' s).
So at .1723 & .0837, cents PMD ( per mile driven) 100,000 miles would cost $ 17,227 vs $ 8,371. DIESEL! Not terribly on topic, but I was surprised to learn the Volvo was priced FAR higher!
Comments
It would seem so. What I find strange is Audi, BMW and MB do not mention diesel sales in their news media. Yet all 3 are kicking butt on sales. Lexus is still playing catch up to MB and BMW. I have to believe diesel SUVs play a big part in their increased sales numbers. With the negative press in the EU with diesel, they may be keeping quiet.
Ram diesel sales are down, at least down per expectations, but that's because they can't make them as fast as they want to. (Forbes) Here's a more positive story from Wards about how FCA is surprised at the demand in spite of the premium cost over the gassers.
(*excluding California, of course.
Sacramento, large grocery store chain: ULSD $2.97, RUG $ 3.09, MG $3.19, PUG $3.29. I like the diesels RANGE, letting one fill near empty and still shop in cheaper areas.
Had a 30min to 45 min delay on the upgrade leg, due to an overturned dump truck . With wife driving, posted 37 mpg. in the MB GLK250 BT.
“They were sold out of diesels for the X5. They couldn’t make enough of them,” Lee tells WardsAuto at FCA’s media ride-and-drive last week at the Chelsea, MI, proving grounds.
“We looked at that and said, ‘We can do this with Grand Cherokee,’” he says. “We made a very credible product, next to the X5. News reports were quite glowing about the package. Yet the sales rates never even approached what X5 did.”
FCA executives were shocked several months later when initial response to the same engine in the Ram was strong. “It’s been going up and up and up,” Lee says. “I don’t know where the limit is.”
Probably the same reason VW Touareg does not sell huge numbers. When you get over $50k people want a luxury name plate. The Grand Cherokee in the top trim is a very nice vehicle. Still not a BMW, MB or Audi. As popular as Jeep is there is a stigma when you attach the name FIAT. From my experience with them "Found in A Toilet" is being kind.
Is It Time for Toyota to Give Us Diesel Cars?
Micah Wright MORE ARTICLES
July 01, 2015
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/is-it-time-for-toyota-to-give-us-diesel-cars.html/
How CQQL is this?
(There are no fossil fuels, compressed natural gases, or expensive battery packs here, just a simple refinement process that is powered by wind and solar and designed to run in any diesel-powered engine. H20 & C02, the splitting releases 02, aka OXYGEN)
Read more: http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/luxury-autos/how-a-blend-of-water-and-co2-can-be-turned-into-fuel.html/?a=viewall#ixzz3fKCLZ5x5)
Passed a station on the drive home this morning south of Santa Fe and diesel was twelve cents cheaper than regular.
It's not even to mention a WAY WAY WAY lower infrastructure footprint.
The study found that while diesel vehicles may be more expensive to buy or lease than their gasoline counterparts, they can save their owners thousands of dollars within just a few years."
Diesel Vehicles Can Be Money Savers, Study Finds
ps, King: gas cars have had the 'no fuel draw' functionality ever since fuel injection... it's not a functionality that is particular to diesels.
also, 85% percentile "FTW" !
A possible explanation for the same mpg for two speeds with 25 mph speed difference is that speed 1 is ~12 mph below optimal mpg speed, and speed 2 is ~12 mph above it. (Every vehicle has a different speed & gear at which it gets maximum mpg.)
VW stickshift diesel will always be on my shortlist of possible vehicles to buy, even though I know odds are good for a random/insanely-expensive expensive engine/emission/fuel system failure by about 100k miles - gotta trade the vehicle away before it hits 80k or 100k, in order to avoid that.
So really if that's your fear (of costly break down @. 100,000 miles ) if I were you, I'd stay away from diesel. But that is also no guarantee that your gasser will be trouble-free .
Prius vs TDI
Kinda of surprised that the poster's TDI quotes were several thousand cheaper than Prius quotes.
The Matrix/Vibe would be my choice there, lol.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I canceled out a few of them in the fintail today
I shudder to think what a diesel Econoline of that era would be like, given the tech of the time.
Diesel is still about 10% cheaper than RUG here, last time I looked.
Rug is approximately 13.3% more than ULSD locally. Given 21 mpg (fuelly.com GLK 350) for PUG ( $3.59) and 37 mpg ( GLK 250 ) for ULSD ($2.99) pmd, PUG is app 113 % MORE than ULSD !
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
However, I would ask the operative point : why the local congestion authorities don't publish the " massive drop" in air pollution due to this change. The minor point to me is I don't begrudge Toyota their profit levels at all. Put another way, if Corolla had the sales of a Prius, they would've shot it in the head long ago to put it out it out of its sales misery.
In other news, Chrysler Building Ram 1500 Diesels, But Sales Lag. (Wards Auto)
The Passat and the redesigned TDI (that now require diesel exhaust fluid (DEF)) used in the Golf/Jetta/Beetle supposedly use a newer fuel pump design but I'm still not sold on VW long-term quality. The Cruze is also somewhat of an unknown although the basic GM-Fiat engine design has been used in Europe for a few years now. About the only thing I'd like better were if GM offered the powertrain in the Malibu or Impala, although the next-gen Cruze getting a bigger back seat (and hopefully trunk if they can move the DEF tank to a different location than the spare tire well).
Some concerns about diesel and my reasoning for still buying one include prices of fuel, maintenance, and long-term emission component life. In California diesel has historically been close to the price of premium unleaded, occasionally higher, but like what's happening now with market manipulation of gasoline and the increasing taxes it's quite a bit cheaper. Even when a touch more expensive the numbers still work out well for overall cost per mile driven.
The maintenance costs are generally higher and it was nice that GM included oil changes and free DEF top-up for 2/24 but they didn't include draining the water from the fuel filter even though it was listed as required in the service schedule. From this point forward if I had to do oil and filter changes it isn't too expensive as I'll switch over to a full synthetic anyway instead of GM's Dexos2 and if I took it to the dealer (providing my own oil) and had to pay them for the fuel filter drain they only be charge $15 extra. The DEF refill isn't a problem either as it lasts longer than an oil change and when shopping around can be found pretty cheap like amazon.com (or buy cheaper at the pump at a truck stop).
One other maintenance item I'm not thrilled about is the use of a timing belt. Timing chains can stretch and require replacement at high mileage just like a belt, but in a diesel they are generally always going to be an interference engine and a belt break is valvetrain death while a stretching chain wouldn't be so sudden (just like in interference gas engines). The Cruze has a reasonable ~100k mile change interval and it doesn't look to difficult to change but is something to keep on top of.
Since most new engines will run the proverbial "forever" if well maintained, in a passenger car it's not as big a selling point that a diesel engine may last longer. I'm more concerned about the other items bolted to the engine like the transaxle and emission components. The Cruze uses a stout ZF-sourced six-speed auto that's also used in much larger vehicles so I'm concerned about that.
The emission system and diesel particulate filter and catalyst life is something I thought about as they add complexity. In the end it's something to think about but with the longer emission system component warranty isn't much of a concern. Like many new technologies right after they come out, these components would be expensive to replace through the dealer parts system but over time there should probably be more aftermarket replacement support and companies that service the particulate filters off-vehicle, for example, if that's even needed.
Strategic Vision just placed VW in a tie for second with GM for new vehicle quality. Number one was Fiat Chrysler. so some will poo-poo the study based on those bedfellows, and initial quality may not translate to long term. (Bloomberg)
Still, it's better than coming in at the bottom.
btw, you have 4 hours to edit your posts in the fourms, @socal_eric. Look for the cog when you hover over the top right of your post across from your member name, and then select Edit.
Given that the price delta between diesel fuel & gasoline is all over the map across the country, I'm not nearly so pumped up on the notion of my very own diesel vehicle as I once was. I want it to have a manual transmission and other features available all over the world outside North America, but not here.
Either way, good luck with your new venicel.
So for example, the GLK 350/250 does not have manual transmissions. So you are probably in a niche market, within a niche market even in gassers. But, how many CUV's ( gassers) have manual transmissions ?
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/35753/kia/sorento/2016-kia-sorento-2-2l-i4-turbo-diesel-awd-vs-3-3l-v6-petrol-fwd#latest
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I take it FWD is not available in the diesel and AWD is not available in the gasser ? If you do not want, need or have a use for AWD, I wouldn't get it! So to be clear, the best option here, a diesel with FWD.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Happily, it is not a diesel though! That's why it did such a good job canceling out a few hybrid/diesel cars' decidedly better economy/emissions, even though I only drove it about six miles.
Last I noticed, diesel was about five cents cheaper than RUG. That's a pretty impressive shift from the past ten or so years.
I and other folks have got to love how cool and seamless this is and remains. We just recently had guests coming up the SOS/DD route in a Volvo T6 AWD @ 22 mpg with torque closer to the 35 mpg VW Touareg TDI ( awesome machine btw, 385' 406 # ft, both had 8 sp a/t' s).
So at .1723 & .0837, cents PMD ( per mile driven) 100,000 miles would cost $ 17,227 vs $ 8,371. DIESEL! Not terribly on topic, but I was surprised to learn the Volvo was priced FAR higher!
Those are cash prices. At least 10 cents more for CC.