What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

There is that. I asked my wife to pay attention to the SportWagen ingress/egress and she wound up getting in and out of it several times on the driver's side. Even though it's relatively low to the ground, there was no head banging. And with the seat adjustment, with the height setting on max, it could get your head near the ceiling.

ruking1

That's a very interesting perspective, being as how you come from the minivan segment perspective.

The SUV/CUV station wagon perspective is actually very practical .Where on the sedan, I don't like the station wagon styling, and it seems extra hard to get in/out.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Yup ! And it is funny how I am ok with the SUV/CUV being station wagon like, yet will not buy a station wagon car. Must be a bend over/ head room/ entry-egress thing. Station wagon cars do not seem to sell well.

Getting in and out of our 2005 Passat TDI was one issue. Ground clearance and the low profile tires were not to my liking. I did like the looks. I could have raised it up if I had kept it. I like the Touareg much better, though I wish they offered 17" wheels and tires. The prices are sky high now. Wonder what I could sell mine for next year?

ruking1

Yes, I think if you decide to sell the Touareg, you'll experience the higher diesel resale values.

I may have mis-spoken a bit on the styling of the station wagon cars. I actually like the styling. It is not enough (given SUV/CUV's) to convince me to switch to a car.

My family has had station wagons, one was a Toyota Corolla and the other was a Toyota Cressida. The Toyota Cressida had a detuned supra engine , I6, for a WOW as I remember! It was great in the SOS/DD trek with way less mpg and torque.

stever

Heh, I put Alaska plates on my cars in Idaho and Michigan. Would do it here too but I don't feel like drilling holes in the front bumper.

I could have sworn that California required their own front plates on vehicles registered there. Guess your old Passat was a Slope rig.

stever

"But the tide may be turning, this year sales of petrol cars in the UK are on track to outstrip sales of diesel for the first time since 2011.

Diesel isn’t dead yet, but it soon could be."

The death of diesel: From superfuel to fossil fuel (thememo.com)

ruking1

It's more than obvious that they want to drive up the cost per mile driven: fuel, pure and simple ! Keep in mind gasoline is app $ 8.00 USD per gal! The defacto assumption is ZERO deaths due to gasoline. This is patently absurd or a modern miracle ! In addition, the same % amount of diesel will be made. This of course means even more barrels of oil will be produced, a minimum of 23% MORE!

So for example. an MB GLK 350 22 mpg, per mile driven cost $.364.

Contrast this with $ .0814 per mile driven(35 mpg@ $2.85). 447% MORE ! ??

ruking1

In context, the average European yearly driving average is app 8,000 to 9000 miles a year. The yearly average US driving range is app 12 ,000 and 15,000 miles a year. The scale in the United States is just absolutely and vastly different.

So IF EV is SO good and DRAMATICALLY cheaper, do you even wonder why London taxi's are not EV's and hybrid gassers? So de facto, what they're saying is when you burn two times more gas you are polluting less than diesel. Again, that is patently absurd or another modern miracle.

http://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=18088

Or another way of asking, on an avg 70,000 miles per year -NYC taxi, would you rather get 54 mpg versus 25 mpg ? ($4 per gal vs $8 per gal in UK.)

stever

I can't even walk down for a gallon of milk here, much less a baguette.

stevedebi

stever said:

There is that. I asked my wife to pay attention to the SportWagen ingress/egress and she wound up getting in and out of it several times on the driver's side. Even though it's relatively low to the ground, there was no head banging. And with the seat adjustment, with the height setting on max, it could get your head near the ceiling.

My wife's 2014 Passat TDI is hard for me to enter / exit, and my head is only an inch from the ceiling. We have the sunroof, which doesn't help. I love driving the car, but I would have a hard time using it all the time.

My Ford C-Max Energi, on the other hand, has copious amounts of headroom and enters / exits like an SUV.

ruking1

stever said:

I can't even walk down for a gallon of milk here, much less a baguette.

Yes, it is SO much cheaper living in the city with no car! Depending on how far the store is away @ $2.00 per mile and tip.....that $4 gal of milk is now $8.80. I am sure you'll really impressed the cab driver with a $.80 tip.

Hm, how are you going to get that $400. COSTCO load home on the NYC subway?t

stever

Amazon/Jet. FedEx, UPS Brown.

Or get a friend with a MINI. "What can Blue do for you?"

gagrice

stever said:

Heh, I put Alaska plates on my cars in Idaho and Michigan. Would do it here too but I don't feel like drilling holes in the front bumper.

I could have sworn that California required their own front plates on vehicles registered there. Guess your old Passat was a Slope rig.

Actually I bought it in Oregon and registered it to my residence in AK. Remember back then diesels were verboten in the People's Socialist Republic of CA. I registered all my vehicles in AK until 2009 when my DL was going to expire. I would have to fly up to renew and made the big mistake of becoming a CA resident. On front license plates. I did not want to drill holes in my Touareg for the front plate. So far two years later no one has said anything. What is funny I had my Suburban that I bought in ID with AK plates that said 4BAJA. Used to see the same cop by my condo and he never stopped me to find out why I did not have CA plates. My Ex drove all over San Diego in our 1979 Honda Accord with expired MN plates, for 4 years. Never stopped. Crazy eh?

ruking1

So now you're getting an inkling as to why we are awash in recycle paper/cardboard and plastic Tyvex type container goods. I still pay high recycling fees , whether I use the service or not. Be that as it may, I actually produce less garbage than I do recycling and I don't have much recycling. But yes, free shipping with a gal of milk is an alluring concept, even in the burbs and mountain resorts, with supermarkets 1 mile or less away. In fact in the burb city where I live, there are 3. But then I literally don't remember when I had a pizza delivered.

stever

So far, the county doesn't require residents to pay for garbage service unless they want it. Don't have much here either and I dump what we collect on our friend in town every couple of weeks. We have to hit the recycling drop-off center about once a week. The rest gets composed.

I do walk for eggs but the heat has zapped my neighbor's chicken production. I'm down to my last two and it may be a couple of days before I can replenish my supply. She's completely out of eggs today.

Diesel is more popular in California than I thought. (nbclosangeles.com)

ruking1

stever said:

So far, the county doesn't require residents to pay for garbage service unless they want it. Don't have much here either and I dump what we collect on our friend in town every couple of weeks. We have to hit the recycling drop-off center about once a week. The rest gets composed.

I do walk for eggs but the heat has zapped my neighbor's chicken production. I'm down to my last two and it may be a couple of days before I can replenish my supply. She's completely out of eggs today.

Diesel is more popular in California than I thought. (nbclosangeles.com)

Technically, neither county nor city REQUIRES what you say. HOWEVER, should one not, they put tax liens on the property for exercising that "option". As you know, once it hits that metric, the properties can be seized for taxes due.

Indeed, I am getting penalized for producing infinitesimally small amounts of garbage and also penalize for NOT producing massive amounts of recycling. The half dozen/ of another6 o one principle.

ruking1

Well I guess it is time for that old game: " not sure why the refineries seem to break down @ specific times in the seasons and the prices goes .... UP" !

http://news.yahoo.com/great-lakes-gas-prices-jump-partial-refinery-shutdown-194502046--finance.html

BP in Detroit MI : ULSD $2.49,

RUG $2.69, MG $2.69, PUG $3.09.

Let's see, more cars in the PVF (passenger vehicle fleet) 269.3 M ? More VMT (vehicle miles travelled ) in B's @ 2,988 B miles?

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

nyccarguy

Ahem, here on the east coast "garbage companies" like to be referred to as "waste management corporations" or "carting companies." LOL

ruking1

I stand corrected!

elias

California is great for so many things vehicular. Speedtraps are illegal, traffic enforcement is only allowed from very specifically marked cop cars, cops have to park parallel to roadway, in direction of travel.

Another california bonus is that rich people who drive new/mint cars never have to register them. Seriously. People just drive on the dealer tag forever, then turn it back into dealer a year or two later at lease-end with the same dealer tags on it.

Also the lower diesel-fuel prices in California are nice, for stickshift VW TDI drivers, and I suppose the slushbox VW TDI people too.

I voted with my wallet again, buying another gas-powered stickshift car (Chevy SS Sedan). Also I discovered how much stickshift is worth to me, because I could have bought previous-model year with automatic transmission for about $7000 less! I would have been so disappointed had i bought the automatic transmission.

ruking1

I too have been spoiled by Chevrolet's use of the Tremec MT product line. Does yours have the 6066 model?

Edmunds.com lists the 15 Chevrolet SS btw 46 to 48 large MSRP. Even the 2001 Z06 Corvette does better than its' EPA 14/21 mpg? PUG. In that era, the Z06 had 10% more aggressive or lower gears.

I do have to say the Tremec 6070 MT 7 sp has caught my eye. Would a Tremec 6070 motivate me to buy that particular transmission, since it comes only in the Corvette ? I don't know, probably not at this stage of my life.

Needless to say, any of these products are in extremely small niches markets.

So if you are OK with paying approximately 16.4 cents to 24.6 (low/high side) per mile driven, as opposed to diesel (35 mpg) being at a 8. 2 cents pmd: f, I'm sure all of us are just fine with that. (Vote with my wallet issue)

Right now the commute is handled by the 2009 VW Jetta TDI. It is boring (boring is GOOD) posting 40 mpg @ 15,000 miles @ 7.18 cents pmd, and currently costs $1,077.00 per year .

Hopefully, the second set of tires will see it past the 10 year mark (150,000 miles) to 180,000 miles (90,000 miles per set). I will also need to get 5 oil/oil filter changes, 6 to hit 180,000 miles. A DSG oil and DSG filter change will be needed @ 120,000 miles. The biggest PITA are 5,000 miles tire rotations.

So far, so good.

gagrice

nyccarguy said:

Ahem, here on the east coast "garbage companies" like to be referred to as "waste management corporations" or "carting companies." LOL

Maybe that is due to the fact the Homeless ate all the garbage and only WASTE was left.

gagrice

elias said:

California is great for so many things vehicular. Speedtraps are illegal, traffic enforcement is only allowed from very specifically marked cop cars, cops have to park parallel to roadway, in direction of travel.

Another california bonus is that rich people who drive new/mint cars never have to register them. Seriously. People just drive on the dealer tag forever, then turn it back into dealer a year or two later at lease-end with the same dealer tags on it.

You know, I have seen lots of cars here without license plates, and only a faded dealer sticker in the right front windshield. I just thought it was cops too fat n lazy to stop them. The Hwy Patrol do sit along the interstate using radar for speeders.

stevedebi

gagrice said:

elias said:

California is great for so many things vehicular. Speedtraps are illegal, traffic enforcement is only allowed from very specifically marked cop cars, cops have to park parallel to roadway, in direction of travel.

Another california bonus is that rich people who drive new/mint cars never have to register them. Seriously. People just drive on the dealer tag forever, then turn it back into dealer a year or two later at lease-end with the same dealer tags on it.

You know, I have seen lots of cars here without license plates, and only a faded dealer sticker in the right front windshield. I just thought it was cops too fat n lazy to stop them. The Hwy Patrol do sit along the interstate using radar for speeders.

Not plating the car is illegal in CA, in fact the dealers have to send in the registration. I suspect the people get the plates and just never install them, intending to tell the cop "oh, I just haven't put the plates on yet" if they get caught. I had a coworker like that, kept the dealer windshield tag on there for a couple of years, then installed the plates to trade it in.

stever

gagrice said:

nyccarguy said:

Ahem, here on the east coast "garbage companies" like to be referred to as "waste management corporations" or "carting companies." LOL

Maybe that is due to the fact the Homeless ate all the garbage and only WASTE was left.

I think the garbage companies really got tired of being called "the mob".


Smoking vehicle complaints rise in Salt Lake City. (standard.net)

ruking1

stever said:

gagrice said:

nyccarguy said:

Ahem, here on the east coast "garbage companies" like to be referred to as "waste management corporations" or "carting companies." LOL

Maybe that is due to the fact the Homeless ate all the garbage and only WASTE was left.

I think the garbage companies really got tired of being called "the mob".


Smoking vehicle complaints rise in Salt Lake City. (standard.net)

In terms of late model diesel cars, ie., my 2003 with 187,000 miles, total red herring! I would literally have to modify it to specifically spew black smoke to get black smoke .

stever

Like the rolling coal dudes do? They give diesel such a good name, lol.

ruking1

Like it really matters?

stever

Well, my link says that more people are complaining about smoking cars, so maybe. If you're a fan of diesels I'd think you'd want to try to bury the stereotype as much as possible. Somehow I think the market share is going to stay around 2.5% absent some big "gas" crisis.

ruking1

I for one don't feel that need. Just like most gasser owners don't feel the need about the smoking gassers. Evidently and more importantly, neither do the " enforcement" agencies. What normally happens to the scofflaws reported? Nada ! You would think @ the very least DMV smog only is called for on off years registration. This is not rocket science. Diesel owners, already in compliance are already being ripped off for @ least one extra smog inspection that gasser owners don't have to do.

The diesel market share is already @ 5%. So I think the diesel car portion currently @ 2.5% should only grow toward 3% and beyond.

ruking1

It's/has been and becoming pretty obvious that diesel car take rates are actually more influenced by the brand/s bringing them to the U.S. market, rather than TDI's becoming a ubiquitous, aka higher volume/% engine choice in the American market.

So for example, it is always a fair observation that if someone doesn't want to buy a Volkswagen to get a diesel, might mean that the TDI option ( VW's 23% +) is not a real big factor in somebody's priorities of vehicle or engine choice. The same can be said of other brands like : Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, etc,.

I have been wanting actually a Toyota Land Cruiser diesel since easily 1986, 29 years. Since the TLC was one of the best made Toyota's in those times, I sucked up having to buy gassers because of the brand. Of course, it didn't hurt being able to use the IRS section 179 tax code in the process. I fully suspect that the 1987/ 1994Toyota Land Cruiser TDI 's would still be passing the smog only inspections.

stever

I dunno, in the US it seems that only VW is associated with diesel passenger cars. MB diesels remind people of those old slow boats that never died. Never saw north of 50 mph either.

Beyond cars, people flash on Cummins and Powerstroke. Big honking trucks, not SUVs or crossovers in other words.

ruking1

Yes,. VW seems to have been committed the longest to US market TDI's.

I think either of the next two observations are probably spot on. If anything would cure you of wanting a diesel, it would be a 1985/86 (my case) a Mercedes-Benz 300 diesel sans turbo. Lose momentum or speed upgrade ( my case SOS/DD up to 7,300 ft) and 50 mph was what you WISHED you were going. But the same was true actually for most gassers at the time . Contrast that with today's diesel and it's literally a night and day difference AND much better mpg.

Not that long ago, fully 75% of diesels on the road were "light" trucks.

gagrice

This is for our Fairbanks connection Xwesx. This is a great idea for the guy that splits lots of wood and has an old beater that still runs, but not worth putting on the road.

If your car is no longer capable of driving, then you might as well decide not to put it on the junkyard but transform it to a wood cutter insted much like what these guys did with their 1992 Honda Civic. These guys modified their old car and made it more handy by putting a Stickler in one of the wheels.

http://woodsplitter.legendaryspeed.com/these-guys-transformed-their-car-into-a-wood-splitter/

xwesx

gagrice said:

This is for our Fairbanks connection Xwesx. This is a great idea for the guy that splits lots of wood and has an old beater that still runs, but not worth putting on the road.

Pretty slick! Hey, that guy is my neighbor! LOL; I jest, though I supposed that, relatively speaking, he is.

He's probably the one that fills the whole valley below my house with woodsmoke from his outdoor boiler running full-on to heat his poorly insulated house.

ruking1

xwesx said:

gagrice said:

This is for our Fairbanks connection Xwesx. This is a great idea for the guy that splits lots of wood and has an old beater that still runs, but not worth putting on the road.

Pretty slick! Hey, that guy is my neighbor! LOL; I jest, though I supposed that, relatively speaking, he is.

He's probably the one that fills the whole valley below my house with woodsmoke from his outdoor boiler running full-on to heat his poorly insulated house.

Since a roaring camp fire or fireplace is an iconic American tradition, I never thought I would ever say this, but I am glad that wood burning fireplaces are being prohibited going forward in the Lake Tahoe area . Most new construction seems to be natural gas fireplaces that seem to double as heaters. Do I miss a roaring fireplace ? Yes I do ! But I think that in consideration of my neighbors, and the area, and its temperature inversions, it is worth it.

The ironic thing is we get it back in spades when there's forest fires! Go figure ?

gagrice

xwesx said:

gagrice said:

This is for our Fairbanks connection Xwesx. This is a great idea for the guy that splits lots of wood and has an old beater that still runs, but not worth putting on the road.

Pretty slick! Hey, that guy is my neighbor! LOL; I jest, though I supposed that, relatively speaking, he is.

He's probably the one that fills the whole valley below my house with woodsmoke from his outdoor boiler running full-on to heat his poorly insulated house.

It just struck me as so Alaskan. I lived in Eagle River in a big 2 story log house. No matter what people say they are not easy to heat. We had a big sealed Wood stove and propane boiler with baseboard and it cost me a fortune when it got real cold. Burning the spruce was a good hot fire but fast burning. We usually ended up buying a couple cords by the end of winter. I don't miss it at all. I use our wood insert from about November to the middle of January here. To avoid using our two propane furnaces.

carboy21

How does Honda Accord Hybrid stack up against the diesel VW Passat TDI ? Value for money ? No smog tests and less maintenance ? What is the difference in Insurance ?

ruking1

carboy21 said:

How does Honda Accord Hybrid stack up against the diesel VW Passat TDI ? Value for money ? No smog tests and less maintenance ? What is the difference in Insurance ?

Depends on what you're stacking up against. Depends also what you using it for. Depends on how you feel about each one after test driving. It would seem for most folks the " do dahs" are far more important than just the engine and drive train choices. For me, a CVT would be a deal breaker. Anyone I know with the higher priced hybrid only just really talks about how good the mileage is. It's almost like pulling teeth asking them how they like the gasser hybrid driving dynamics for a higher priced vehicle. Where as for me, I love the diesels driving dynamics and oh by the way, it gets xx MPG.

On your three other issues,it's easy for you to run calculations and do the comparisons. Let us know what you conclude.

houdini1

stever said:

I dunno, in the US it seems that only VW is associated with diesel passenger cars. MB diesels remind people of those old slow boats that never died. Never saw north of 50 mph either.

Beyond cars, people flash on Cummins and Powerstroke. Big honking trucks, not SUVs or crossovers in other words.

Wrong ! My old 240D was happiest when cruising at 80 mph. Took it a while to get there though.

carboy21

ruking1 said:

Depends on what you're stacking up against. Depends also what you using it for. Depends on how you feel about each one after test driving. It would seem for most folks the " do dahs" are far more important than just the engine and drive train choices. For me, a CVT would be a deal breaker. Anyone I know with the higher priced hybrid only just really talks about how good the mileage is. It's almost like pulling teeth asking them how they like the gasser hybrid driving dynamics for a higher priced vehicle. Where as for me, I love the diesels driving dynamics and oh by the way, it gets xx MPG.

As per reviews, Accord Hybrid drives well, has lots of latest electronics, best mileage then a diesel of the same class, no smog tests, less maintenance then diesel, no need to add diesel exhaust fluid . No need to check for diesel availability wherever one goes . No engine clatter and turbo maintenance.
I personally feel its a lot less headache then a diesel car and which gives 50mpg in full traffic city driving.
Diesel Passat may be good for long distance interstate driving but Accord Hybrid is awesome for city stop and start driving.
Base model Accord Hybrid costs only 31,000. which is less then a Passat TDI S

ruking1

So why aren't you getting a base Honda Accord Hybrid ? A loaded Accord hybrid is actually thousands more than more loaded Passat TDI's. Give the fact that the MPG is approximately the same as the Passat TDI, @ 28k to 36k. it will take you longer to break even with the hybrid.@ 31k to 36k. I take it you have not test driven either vehicle.. So IF driving dynamics are unimportant to you, or you are one of the rare folks who love the hybrid and CVT combination, it would appear you've already made your decision?

Hybrids are an even smaller % of the PVF than diesels. That is despite a decade or more backing by the government with unseen and seen special tax credits, write offs and other advantages too numerous to mention and know. By contrast, diesels have been largely vilified during that whole time.

gagrice

carboy21 said:

ruking1 said:

Depends on what you're stacking up against.

As per reviews, Accord Hybrid drives well, has lots of latest electronics, best mileage then a diesel of the same class, no smog tests, less maintenance then diesel, no need to add diesel exhaust fluid . No need to check for diesel availability wherever one goes . No engine clatter and turbo maintenance.
I personally feel its a lot less headache then a diesel car and which gives 50mpg in full traffic city driving.
Diesel Passat may be good for long distance interstate driving but Accord Hybrid is awesome for city stop and start driving.
Base model Accord Hybrid costs only 31,000. which is less then a Passat TDI S

Unless Honda Accord has improved a lot over the last 3-4 years, they have horrible road noise. Rented one for two weeks and was never so glad to get out of a vehicle. I have not driven the Passat, I did get a Jetta loaner while my Touareg was being serviced. Much nicer handling riding car than the Honda Accord. Have you test driven the Chevy Volt if you like all the high tech stuff.

carboy21

So IF driving dynamics are unimportant to you, or you are one of the rare folks who love the hybrid and CVT combination, it would appear you've already made your decision?

Economics is more important me. If I wanted driving dynamics, I would be driving a Porche
Passat TDI have currently great deals in my area , nearly 5000 off the MRSP. So I might go for the Passat TDI

Just now received an email from the Honda dealer that the base Honda Accord Hybrid is discounted to 24,800.
So tough decision to make. Honda hybrid city driving is 50mpg versus Passat TDI 30mg. My most of the driving is city, about 80 percent so I might lean towards Honda

sutliffvolkswagen.com/new-Harrisburg-2015-Volkswagen-Passat-2.0L+TDI+SE-1VWBV7A32FC077677

ruking1

All the best with your new Honda Accord Hybrid.

(According to Fuelly.com) You are over stating the 2015 Honda hybrid 50 mpg (42.) and understating the Passat TDI 30 mpg (39.6) . Given the difference in slightly higher mpg of the hybrid and higher acquisition prices ( than the TDI) , it will take you much more than 100,000 miles to break even ( more like 250,000 plus miles).

For economic purposes, it seems that you prefer a more expensive base model Honda Accord hybrid as opposed to more loaded and CHEAPER Passat TDI.

Purely as a comparison, ( I spent the day with ) a person who owns a 2009 Camry hybrid with 92,000 miles. He gets around roughly 32 mpg. (2015 TCH @ 36,5, 2009 TCH @ 34.4) In my 2009 VW Jetta TDI with 95,000 miles, we have never gotten under 38 miles a gallon and that's in punishing, punishing stop and go traffic, i.e. city .

houdini1

carboy21 said:

So IF driving dynamics are unimportant to you, or you are one of the rare folks who love the hybrid and CVT combination, it would appear you've already made your decision?

Economics is more important me. If I wanted driving dynamics, I would be driving a Porche
Passat TDI have currently great deals in my area , nearly 5000 off the MRSP. So I might go for the Passat TDI

Just now received an email from the Honda dealer that the base Honda Accord Hybrid is discounted to 24,800.
So tough decision to make. Honda hybrid city driving is 50mpg versus Passat TDI 30mg. My most of the driving is city, about 80 percent so I might lean towards Honda

sutliffvolkswagen.com/new-Harrisburg-2015-Volkswagen-Passat-2.0L+TDI+SE-1VWBV7A32FC077677

The Passat TDI and the Accord hybrid are both great cars for fuel savings. Since most of your driving is in the city I would favor the Accord. Not that much difference in the price and using the EPA city ratings, the Accord wins 50 mpg to 30 mpg. That is a huge difference. More importantly though is the Accord is just put together better, has a much nicer interior, and is much more reliable. Most important though is that you should drive both of them and then make your decision based on what the seat of your pants tells you.

carboy21

houdini

Great advise. Now is really a good time to snap the bargains. Gas prices being very low, the diesels and the hybrids are being steeply discounted. Once the Gas hits 4 bucks then those puppies will be shooting a premium . I am off to the VW and Honda dealer tomorrow to test drive both.

ruking1

ruking1 said:

All the best with your new Honda Accord Hybrid.

(According to Fuelly.com) You are over stating the 2015 Honda hybrid 50 mpg (42.) and understating the Passat TDI 30 mpg (39.6) . Given the difference in slightly higher mpg of the hybrid and higher acquisition prices ( than the TDI) , it will take you much more than 100,000 miles to break even ( more like 250,000 plus miles).

For economic purposes, it seems that you prefer a more expensive base model Honda Accord hybrid as opposed to more loaded and CHEAPER Passat TDI.

Purely as a comparison, ( I spent the day with ) a person who owns a 2009 Camry hybrid with 92,000 miles. He gets around roughly 32 mpg. (2015 TCH @ 36,5, 2009 TCH @ 34.4) In my 2009 VW Jetta TDI with 95,000 miles, we have never gotten under 38 miles a gallon and that's in punishing, punishing stop and go traffic, i.e. city .

Yeah, I think this kind of mis-analysis is rather typical of the gas or gasser hybrid buyer. So while the 15 Honda Accord hybrid gets 42 miles a gallon, which is very good: to break even with only $1000 and 2.4 miles per gallon difference OVER the Passat TDI, easily takes over 250,000 miles. Again, advantage TDI.

No one has any issues with someone NOT wanting/liking/needing a TDI, least of all someone like me.

So for example, the friend with the Toyota Camry hybrid getting 32mpg, didn't want to hear, or wasn't interested that we get 40 mpg in a competitive TDI. So, ...I didn't bring it up. The ironic part is that the CUV MB 250 blue tech gets better mpg than a hybrid CAR. It's more than 600 #'s heavier and 4 Matic vs FWD.

xwesx

gagrice said:

It just struck me as so Alaskan.

Oh, it definitely is, and it is a great idea, to boot! The amount of effort that guy was putting into splitting those logs was a pittance compared to the energy most folks use.

I'm just not a fan of the outdoor boilers due to their poor efficiency and, as a result, high pollution level. The guys that use them will deny it without question, but when they install one and then the next winter there is a constant blanket of foul smoke for the whole winter where there was not before, the evidence is, well, self-evident.

I grew up with a wood stove as our sole heat source (well, half of my childhood, anyway). I do like it, but my lungs do not. While it is a minor issue in my own home, it is a much more poignant problem for me outdoors. I dislike it when my neighbors burn wood for that reason, so I'm surely not going to add to it.

xwesx

carboy21 said:

houdini

Great advise. Now is really a good time to snap the bargains. Gas prices being very low, the diesels and the hybrids are being steeply discounted. Once the Gas hits 4 bucks then those puppies will be shooting a premium . I am off to the VW and Honda dealer tomorrow to test drive both.

Yes, definitely a good time!

Purely (or mostly) city driving is really the type of environment intended for hybrid/electric vehicles, there's no question about it. If you like what you're getting from the hybrid most of the time, then that "20%" of the time when you are out on the highway basically getting "gasser" mileage, that's not that big of a deal.

It really does surprise me, though, that people still maintain the idea that diesel fuel is more difficult to come by, or that the engines emit a noisy "clatter." Maybe my perception is skewed due to my Subaru ownership, but I would say that neither is true in the modern world.

As was mentioned, get the one that you like best!