What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

As long as other OEMs do NOT get involved in VW's segments and of course more importantly, into the diesel option, they don't really have to do anything with the diesel's pricing. Another TMI issue: the longer the other OEMs wait to get into diesel options, the harder it is for them to match VW's percentage OF diesels, quality, durability & reliability.

To Elias's point, Golf Sport Wagon also comes with a stick shift option TDI/ gas. The option is actually about $1100 cheaper.

I also have to say that I've been pretty impressed with the Volkswagens overall durability and reliability. Kudos also have to go to VW for pursuing the constant improvement program.

Anecdotally for me, they stepped up to cover the cost of my high-pressure fuel pump issue, that was also, notably out of warranty, in a 2009 VW Jetta TDI.

For me, it was truly a grave concern in 2003 ( vs Honda, Toyota etc) But that was 187,000 miles ago and 12 model years.

gagrice

It amazes me how few VW sells in the USA and still the largest manufacturer in the World. They did have a 2.44% improvement in over all sales for July.

High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 25.7 percent of sales in July

gagrice

slorenzen said:

I'd say that new Colorado is calling your name.

Is the Diesel version available now?



I think I would take the Ram Diesel over the GM offering. They are supposedly coming this fall. EPA does not have any mileage numbers for them yet. Ram diesel owners are averaging about 23 MPG, which for a full size crew cab PU is not bad. I really only need a small PU. Probably just keep the Nissan and drive it less. Not even sure I need a PU, I have my own dumpster now. Maybe get a Golf TDI for all the short trips.

gagrice

Another good reason to dump the Nissan PU and the wife's LS400 is the smog check scam. My wife's Lexus has to be smog checked this year. I called the two places closest to me and both say their early model smog tester is not working for years 1976-99. They are waiting on the state technician to come out and repair. hmmmm, been over a week since I called. Is the state trying to force people to get rid of older vehicles????

Another diesel may be in my garage soon.

ruking1

gagrice said:

It amazes me how few VW sells in the USA and still the largest manufacturer in the World. They did have a 2.44% improvement in over all sales for July.

High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 25.7 percent of sales in July

And @ 2.5% U.S. market share!! Just think how scary that would be if they can figure out ways of getting higher %'s of the US market share !?

stever

I think it'd be great to see VW doing better in the US (that would also indirectly help one of my nephews who works for an auto supplier in Chattanooga).

They get the sales figured out, maybe they can then pressure the dealers to improve their facilities and service. The one here doesn't even have an indoor showroom, just looks like 4 cubicles when you walk in. Reminds me of some of those marginal Mitsu dealers that some places have.

ruking1

I really do not know what the real balances should be, going forward. I know the internment for each dealership has its own particular logic. What might work in say, a CA market might not be appropriate in others.

There are two huge (acreage) dealerships in town. Either is WAY overkill for a town this size. Together, two dealerships makes almost no sense. Yet, both are HUGE volume sellers.

Yet I have bought cars from a more farming community (St Helena, CA) that opened the dealership special, for I could only come on a Sunday.

gagrice

The VW dealerships in So CA are mostly top tier. If any have fallen behind here it would be Honda, GMC, Buick & Cadillac. We have 7 full service VW dealers in San Diego.
8 Honda and 10 Toyota dealerships. And only 4 GMC/Buick/Caddy dealers.
I think VW does ok around here. I see a lot of them.

ruking1

gagrice said:

The VW dealerships in So CA are mostly top tier. If any have fallen behind here it would be Honda, GMC, Buick & Cadillac. We have 7 full service VW dealers in San Diego.
8 Honda and 10 Toyota dealerships. And only 4 GMC/Buick/Caddy dealers.
I think VW does ok around here. I see a lot of them.

Wow, you're post was a swift kick to the side of the head. I did a Siri query for a 50 mile radius, this area has 13 MB, VW, 15 Toyota, Honda, dealerships.

ruking1

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/insight-tesla-burns-cash-loses-more-4-000-110535099--finance.html

$ 4,000 loss per vehicle?

elias

yes, king, tesla makes fantastic cars for short-commute people and car-as-fashion people, but not yet for actual drivers who sometimes drive more than 100 miles. And they manage do it at a loss per vehicle. i've heard that they make money is by arbitraging electricity and carbon-credits. aside from their ancillary awesome short-haul cars, that sorta reminds me of Enron.

elias

ps - what it would take for me to buy a diesel car is.... living in california. will the bizarro-world price-delta between gas & diesel persist in california for more than a season? doubtful? the suppliers will adjust supply or gas vs. diesel ratio accordingly for next-season's california market, eh? maybe the diesel price is already dropping faster than gas prices in california?

ruking1

http://carpreview.com/lists/2014/best-cars/3/

A number of diesels ?

Michaell

elias said:

ps - what it would take for me to buy a diesel car is.... living in california. will the bizarro-world price-delta between gas & diesel persist in california for more than a season? doubtful? the suppliers will adjust supply or gas vs. diesel ratio accordingly for next-season's california market, eh? maybe the diesel price is already dropping faster than gas prices in california?

I was noticing yesterday that the price of RUG at my local station is $2.759, but for Diesel it's only $2.489. Certainly makes the payoff period for the extra cost of choosing a diesel that much shorter.

stever

I think the dichotomy will continue in California. They require "special" gasoline but there's not much reason for refineries outside the state to make it. And the refineries in the state can't meet demand, when they break down and they break down a lot (Torrance).

Doubt that the gas tax will get lowered.

gagrice

elias said:

ps - what it would take for me to buy a diesel car is.... living in california. will the bizarro-world price-delta between gas & diesel persist in california for more than a season? doubtful? the suppliers will adjust supply or gas vs. diesel ratio accordingly for next-season's california market, eh? maybe the diesel price is already dropping faster than gas prices in california?

I think one reason we are usually lower on diesel would be the fact we have such a large demand for RUG and our refineries still produce diesel. Just a guess on my part. That and we do not have winter users of diesel to heat our homes. Over the last 12 months I paid as high as $4.04 for diesel and that same week $4.09 for RUG. RUG has gone down about 60 cents a gallon and diesel $1.35 a gallon.

ruking1

elias said:

ps - what it would take for me to buy a diesel car is.... living in california. will the bizarro-world price-delta between gas & diesel persist in california for more than a season? doubtful? the suppliers will adjust supply or gas vs. diesel ratio accordingly for next-season's california market, eh? maybe the diesel price is already dropping faster than gas prices in california?

Living in California does have some bizarro type qualities, as I am sure living where you do does also. The diesel fuel issue seemingly is not one of those, even as the environmental Na z's want to vilify it

So for example, slow diesel news day app 50 miles from ATL, GA ( WALMART station)

ULSD @ $ 2.34, RUG @ $2.39, PUG @ $2.74.

Seems you are risk adverse to running the cheap krakulator? Or perhaps you are fearful of the results !? I have said all along I'm OK with gasser users wanting to pay more per mile driven than diesel users ! Seems you are too! So it would seem we are in agreement !

On my MB GLK 250-35mpg/ 350-21mpg = $.067 vs $.1305 per mile driven. So PUG is 95% MORE than PUG. But then even you knew both PUG/RUG would be higher,. The consumption ratio's haven't changed, but I suspect you already know that also.

So for 100,000 miles: 4,762 gallons @ 2.74= $13,048 VS 2,857 gals @ $ 2.34= $6,685. Or diesel being $6,363 cheaper.

ruking1

gagrice said:

elias said:

ps - what it would take for me to buy a diesel car is.... living in california. will the bizarro-world price-delta between gas & diesel persist in california for more than a season? doubtful? the suppliers will adjust supply or gas vs. diesel ratio accordingly for next-season's california market, eh? maybe the diesel price is already dropping faster than gas prices in california?

I think one reason we are usually lower on diesel would be the fact we have such a large demand for RUG and our refineries still produce diesel. Just a guess on my part. That and we do not have winter users of diesel to heat our homes. Over the last 12 months I paid as high as $4.04 for diesel and that same week $4.09 for RUG. RUG has gone down about 60 cents a gallon and diesel $1.35 a gallon.

So you and the host really hit it on the head.

Another would be that rug and pug FOR & IN California are also niche/niche products, i.e., it can be against the law to sell Southern California gas in Northen California, for example . Ergo it is possible that it does not make economic sense for refineries outside of California to produce for and sell in California. It also may not make economic sense for a southern ca refinery to produce and sell in a northern area and vice versa.

California diesel however is more fungible i.e. that means that in/outside CA refiners are OK about selling diesel inside/outside California.

cdnpinhead

I'm quite confident that neither of you (or the other odd poster from time to time) will miss me, but I'm punching out of this board. There's not much new, but that's just me.

ruking1

Happy Trails ! I hope you find what you're looking for in gassers.

In the 12 or so years that I've had my first diesel, not much new in two segments: 4 door sedans and CUV 's compact & mid sized: Probably more importantly, nothing new in gasser engines: gassers or gasser hybrids or EV's There has been of course some semblance of constant improvements. Not much during that time has induce me to switch either!

For me, the 2.1 twin turbo Blue Tec really caught my attention! I truly wish a gasser could make 369 # ft AND post 35 to a high of 49.8 mpg !! Now that would be some serious reasons to switch.

xwesx

cdnpinhead said:

I'm quite confident that neither of you (or the other odd poster from time to time) will miss me, but I'm punching out of this board. There's not much new, but that's just me.

Thanks for the FYI! Definitely true much of the time; I keep looking!

stever

Gee, you're going to miss out guessing who just test drove a Sportwagen TDI.

ruking1

stever said:

Gee, you're going to miss out guessing who just test drove a Sportwagen TDI.

Pray tell and what was the take? Hopefully you put it up against the gas model?

stever

No asthma attacks. Nice rig.

Stay tuned, will post details as I get caught up on some housekeeping chores.

ruking1

While it would be great for the GSW to sell 250,000 units, I also think the Golf Sport Wagon will continue to be a niche within a niche within a niche segment: station wagon,TDI, M/T. aka small numbers within each category AND overall. The Am market buys very few of any to all of the above segments.

If I were in the market, this would be right in the wheelhouse.

It remains to be seen if it mimics 85% TDI, like the JSW. I do think it will have a very high M/T take rate.

cdnpinhead

Between CARB & the BMW desire to bring in only the big bad diesels w/o manuals, there's little hope unless you want to drive a VW.

Bye all.

ruking1

cdnpinhead said:

Between CARB & the BMW desire to bring in only the big bad diesels w/o manuals, there's little hope unless you want to drive a VW.

Bye all.

So what makes you think CARB doesn't want to get rid of gassers and BMW doesn't want to get rid of gassers M/T 's also? Yes. It is hardly VW's fault that not many other oems want to get into diesels, or diesel M/T's for that matter.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/engines-most-popular-2015-cars-trucks-120005864.html

But then @ the same time, an 8 cylinder TTDI Cummins, with a Tremic 7 sp MT or 8 sp AT is on my wish list !

stever

The verdict - kind of meh. Still want to try a Golf.

ruking1

I am not sure why the smaller minivan segment is not in the mix ?

Also if the minivan is the gold standard, why not stick with the minivan ? It seems to me anything less is ...settling.

Golf? Oh please.

stever

Heh, isn't the Golf the Euro "driver's car"?

We're moved and don't (usually) need the extra room any more. Got rid of the canoes and back in the day, we'd do month long road trips in a Tercel, so I think I can recall how to pack. Just ready for a small box.

btw, the only small minivan out there is going away and there won't be a 2016 Mazda5.

ruking1

stever said:

Heh, isn't the Golf the Euro "driver's car"?

We're moved and don't (usually) need the extra room any more. Got rid of the canoes and back in the day, we'd do month long road trips in a Tercel, so I think I can recall how to pack. Just ready for a small box.

btw, the only small minivan out there is going away and there won't be a 2016 Mazda5.

For a greater host of those European folks, indeed that may be VERY true.

Based upon some of the posted new goals and what AM market cars you are testing, I doubt seriously a 2015 Golf TDI "hatch" is the answer to one persons dreams ang practicalities, let alone the both of you. So for example , the GSW TDI is one example of the small box Euro drivers car, AND who doesn't get that it doesn't really impress one of you, let alone both of you?

stever

I'm sure you're right - more of an excuse to go drive one.

And yeah, some of the Euro vans (or hatches) would be fun to have a shot at. I think we've "studied" about 10 vehicles and the Soul is still leading after ~18 months or so. Seems to have a nice combo of odd box and lots of tech, easier to park and easier to fit in the garage.

Michaell

stever said:

I'm sure you're right - more of an excuse to go drive one.

And yeah, some of the Euro vans (or hatches) would be fun to have a shot at. I think we've "studied" about 10 vehicles and the Soul is still leading after ~18 months or so. Seems to have a nice combo of odd box and lots of tech, easier to park and easier to fit in the garage.

And since you don't need AWD where you live, it doesn't matter that it's not an option.

stever

Yeah, prefer the FWD anyway.

Guess I should look at a Tiguan too, but the mpg is so-so. There's a $1,300+ price cut on it for 2016.

Michaell

stever said:

Yeah, prefer the FWD anyway.

Guess I should look at a Tiguan too, but the mpg is so-so. There's a $1,300+ price cut on it for 2016.

Nah, the Tiguan is the size of a CR-V; too big for you, IMHO.

stever

C'mon CX-3.

Guess I should mention for those who missed my full blown SportWagen TDI review that the diesel "fumes" didn't bother my wife at all. Fueling could be an issue for her, but walking around it while it was idling wasn't a problem No inhaler needed.

ruking1

Fuelly.com lists the 2015 Kia Soul at 25.1 miles per gallon.

Why on earth would you want to get 41.6 miles per gallon in a 2015 VW Golf TDI ? Or 66% BETTER ?

Yet God forbid that you get 22.6 miles a gallon on a 2015 VW Tiguan or 10 % less than a 2015 Kia Soul.

stever

That's a reason why the Prius V is in second position. Lots of other little boxes out there are over 30 combined.

ruking1

There's not a thing wrong with what any of those gasser cars post MPG wise ! The central point is 30% better PLUS + in a diesel is ... 30% better!

In the case of the 2014 MB GLK 350/250, TDI/BlueTec iis app 67% better. (21mpg VS 35 mpg)

Fuelly.com lists 2015 Golf @ 21.9 mpg. So TDI is 90 % better !

Based on what you're posting, I don't see the Toyota Pruis V @ ALL close to the fullfilling the wants needs mentioned and unsaid. This is not to even mention that the Prius V platform is decades old VS Golf platform that has just been introduced, last year.

stever

"Big" hatch with lots of room, mostly flat floor (with some unfortunate gaps), good mpg, good mp3s. Nice console with cutouts so my knees don't hit it. Huge sunroof available. So it matches most of our hot points.

ruking1

Big but ,...but after 18 months of testing, what's holding you back ?

stever

Well, we used the big van to move in and decided last year to wait to downsize so we wouldn't have to pod our stuff out here.

And naturally, there's an all new V coming out "any day now" (i.e., 2017). And the CX-3 is hitting the lots in a couple of weeks.

And it's just a car - you can buy those any day of the week. It's not like we're dying to have a shiny new toaster in the garage.

Have to say that the dealers have mostly changed. Shopping has been kind of fun the last year and a half and we haven't been hassled to buy something "today".

ruking1

For sure new-car shopping can approach being a " hobby ". It really took me 2 to 3 years each to buy any to all of my diesels. But I have always liked shopping ( in generally also).

The feeling I get from some to a lot of people that car shopping is one step below ...root canal.

Michaell

ruking1 said:

For sure new-car shopping can approach being a " hobby ". It really took me 2 to 3 years to buy any to all of my diesels. But I have always liked shopping.

The feeling I get from some to a lot of people that car shopping is one step below ...root canal.

When we bought our Outback in February, my wife looked at exactly ... one car and one dealer.

I'd say that root canal without pain killers is more like it.

ruking1

Lol! The analogy seems to tap into a "nerve".

But on the other hand, wants, needs, likes, dislikes can take various shades. The three family members really didn't care about or even like diesel, let alone VW when we first got it. I of course have said more than once, that getting a VW was a serious road block in getting a TDI.

F/F... From 2002/2003 to 2013/2015 time frames.

I noticed that they really now like TDI's They specifically like the MB 250 BlueTec/TDI. So go figure! ? It's really interesting that it gets pretty close to the same mpg (34 to 38 mpg) as the 2009 VW Jetta TDI ( 38 to 42 mpg) in choking commute traffic, given any number of seemingly disadvantages. So we now interchange them both. It is hard not to appreciate diesel's OVER performance in the EPA mpg ratings Vs normal UNDER performance of Gasser's in EPA mpgs.

The only real practical issue are the much more expensive AND faster wearing tires on the Mercedes-Benz GLK 250 BlueTec. But I knew that.

ruking1

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/electric-car-drivers-tell-ford-well-never-back-123000462.html
The other extreme minority position (EV) chipping away @ the gasser PVF? Of course a population of 10,000 EV owners of a 264.5 m PVF still is less than measurable@ .000034 %. Funny how the tax powers that be hate even an immeasurable minority.

stever

That's not the way I heard it.

Hybrid and Electric Vehicles Struggle to Maintain Owner Loyalty, Reports Edmunds.com

ruking1

stever said:

That's not the way I heard it.

Hybrid and Electric Vehicles Struggle to Maintain Owner Loyalty, Reports Edmunds.com

Hate to say we told you so, but there are at least two people that use this board and thought Edmunds.com was premature in closing down the "I hate SUVs, why don't you "thread!

Needless to say, we have compact and mid sized CUV's, that are TDI's.

stever

aka tall wagons LOL.

ruking1

Yup ! And it is funny how I am ok with the SUV/CUV being station wagon like, yet will not buy a station wagon car. Must be a bend over/ head room/ entry-egress thing. Station wagon cars do not seem to sell well.