What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

Like I say, I can't even make this stuff up ! $ 60 k for a hydrogen Corolla? AND drinks equivalent fuel like an 8 to 12 cylinder Ferrari?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/why-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-need-to-clean-up-their-act.html/

Look at the mpg imp ( .8326 conversion) on these UK TDI's. It makes our economy cars look like gas guzzlers! 69 mpg imp = 57.45 mpg US gal , 128 oz

http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/best-diesel-cars

Geez, 73.5 mpg/ 2.45 gal= 3.333 cents per mile driven. (Golf TDI, 88.3 imp) for 15,000 miles per yr commute @ 2.45 gal, that's $ 42 a mo! (vs $76.56 mo now @ 40 mpg)


On the electrical power front, is this a surprise?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/power-auction-may-foreshadow-rise-in-utility-bills-energy-stocks-1440208508

ruking1

stever said:

Time to fill up?

"A big slate of planned refinery outages this fall could affect diesel fuel, which has been selling for less than gasoline, he said. Diesel could rise 15 cents to 30 cents per gallon as farmers start using large quantities for harvesting equipment, he said."

Diesel prices, now less than gas at the pump, likely to rise into the fall harvest (startribune.com)

There go the bees.

Turn off the Diesel and Smell the Flowers (chromatographytoday.com)

We're melting.

How Jeeps Reclaimed Iceland, And How Diesel Soot Is Taking It Away (Jalopnik)

Here's another way of saying it : CRACK spread UP! (so is the UTE rate)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy-prices-crashing-then-refiners-100000197.html

stever

I'd say the moral is to sell Exxon or BP and buy Valero, but Exxon and BP refine their own gas too.

In 1950 it cost .09 a mile to own and operate a car. Gas was .27 a gallon. This year the AAA says it's running .58 cents a mile to own and operate an average sedan.

Doesn't really mean much until you realize that your hunk of sheet metal in your garage is costing you $8,000 a year and every ten minute run to the 7/11 to buy a $4 gallon of mile costs you another $2 in transport costs.

So the real moral is to move to town and walk.

ruking1

stever said:

I'd say the moral is to sell Exxon or BP and buy Valero, but Exxon and BP refine their own gas too.

In 1950 it cost .09 a mile to own and operate a car. Gas was .27 a gallon. This year the AAA says it's running .58 cents a mile to own and operate an average sedan.

Doesn't really mean much until you realize that your hunk of sheet metal in your garage is costing you $8,000 a year and every ten minute run to the 7/11 to buy a $4 gallon of mile costs you another $2 in transport costs.

So the real moral is to move to town and walk.

Actually, a pretty good indicator is the IRS business rate per year. More importantly is to have a or business/s that pick/s up the tab/s .

You're right, cars are brutally expensive!

So the key is if you HAVE to own a car,/s have the business/es cut you a check for the actual per mile rate you use for business, or have them pick up the tab for the actual expenses, whichever benefits one better is what to do.

The IRS website will tell you that commute miles are NOT deductible. I would hate to be accused of practicing tax law, or CPA advice. So upon advice of either, IF qualifying is met, one can also use IRS section 179 for qualifying business related vehicles.

IF none of that Is deductible, I would think seriously about getting rid of the (non-deductible) car altogether .

Just be glad you don't have to look for an apartment in the city of San Francisco ! it is easy to see why services like Uber are SO popular . I am told the avg price for an unfurnished 1B (reality translation dinky) apt is $3,500 per mo.

Here is a tiny cookie cutter one @ $2,900 per mo. North Beach, ( if you know the area)

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2133-Stockton-St-San-Francisco-CA-94133/2113117800_zpid/

Wow, all things considered, that would make a $12. family sized piazza app $50, when the $15 per hou min wages kick in. Oh but it's walkable.

stever

Yeah, just mentioned the IRS to someone else around here. Looks like the official business rate for 2015 is 57.5 cents a mile.

carboy21

Car and commute is cheaper in a major city then having a apartment in a city. No two doubts about that. Why would people live in the burbs otherwise.

ruking1

Yeah, basically the 03 Jetta TDI runs 17 cents pmd: t ( per mile driven : total, ownership scenario) 15,000 miles ($ 2,550) per yr. This includes TB/WP changes @ 100 k miles. Fuel pmd= 4.82 cents .

So iIF you could get the IRS business mileage rate at 57.5 cents per mile, it's easy to see that you would make some $$'s.( $ 6,075)

Using PUG adds about $1,071 a year ( @ $ 2.99 25 miles a gallon, PUG, $2.41 ULSD) So easily that is 7 cents more pmd:f or 41 % MORE. ( 11.96 vs 4,82 cents)

So even when anybody can see that this is way cheaper, I realize that non diesel types are almost totally tone deaf to the differences. One gasser owner on this board has not even dared to run a pmd:t to compare. Why ? Trying to infer doubt ? Afraid of the truth.?

stever

hm, looks like I ran out of gas doing my spreadsheet on the last van. At 175k my gas was running .22 a mile, and I didn't update the last 25,000 miles. Give or take - I tracked gallons and miles, but not cost per gallon on each tank. Everything together was more like .41 a mile.

socal_eric

ruking1 said:

For my two cents, this is really sad because the Chevrolet Cruz was built on an old Cadillac platform, which is just wonderful for Chevrolet Cruse and its' diesel in particular.

Negative. The Cruze is built on GM's global Delta II architecture. The original Delta platform was a clean sheet design developed in cooperation with GM Europe and debuted in the Saturn Ion for 2003 with further updates prior to roll-out of the Cobalt, Astra, and other models starting in 2005. The Cruze's Delta II platform evolved from and is nearly identical to the original Delta platform and was updated in cooperation with input from GM Europe and GMDAT (GM-Daewoo Auto & Technology, now GM Korea).

The only Cadillac that has used a Delta-based architecture is the ELR which shares a Delta II chassis with the Volt. The next-generation Cruze will shift to the D2xx platform which is yet again an evolution of the original Delta architecture and designed to replace other compact vehicle platforms used across GM and support small car and SUV/CUVs variants.

ruking1

Evidently the article I had read, (according to a Wikipedia article ) in passing was incorrect. The correction is very helpful.

Further on down, it goes on to say:

The Cruze diesel was the first GM passenger car in the US equipped with a diesel engine in 28 years, however sales were weaker than expected with 2% of US models.[111]
..."The Cruze diesel was the first GM passenger car in the US equipped with a diesel engine in 28 years, however sales were weaker than expected with 2% of US models.[111]"...

It is funny how you find these percentages in technical gobity goop articles, BURIED very deep somewhere in the Internet .

Given 2013 sales of 248,224, ( Good Car Bad Car), that puts DIESEL Cruze sales at about 4965. The very next year, ( 2014 ) another article said that 1.2% of diesel Cruzes ) or sold of the 2013 number, posting 3029 units. Even that % figure is misleading . The 2014 sales were 273,060 units.. That would put 2014 diesel sales at 1.1%

Another article, puts GM's diesel Cruze target at 10% of overall sales( per year.) Perhaps it is understandable why the real figures are buried ...somewhere . But then, GM also did that with the ignition issue .

Like I continue to say, I can't even make this stuff up.

Slow news diesel day ! Otherwise wholesale heating oil @ app $ 1.39., RBob gasoline is app $1.46. On the wholesale price of diesel ( retail@ $2.41), governments take is approximately 46% (CA state + Fed 63.78 cents, not including 9/10% SST,) The rest of the complex food chain makes about 27.5 % Biggie oil post 9 cents of each $1.00.

xwesx

Heating oil at $1.39?! I would LOVE that. It is 2.71 here today, for #1.

stever

Got frost?

socal_eric

I'd tend to trust the Wards numbers more than random press articles and as they noted, in the first calendar year on sale Chevrolet moved 5,974 cars for about 2% of total Cruze production. That appears to have increased to ~3% according to Ward for the 2015 production and would equal right around 7500 turbo diesel cars sold.

Given that there was a very slow ramp-up in production and availability in the first year on market (2014) I'd wager an educated guess that it was less consumers not wanting the diesel models but GM's supply constrictions limiting sales. The emission certification, modification of the car (new suspension, new hub/wheel assemblies, DEF tank installation, etc.) and importing of powertrains probably wasn't cheap but I could see GM being cautious and taking a feel for the market and using the experience to prepare for the next-gen Cruze (which is designed from the ground up for the North American market with a turbo diesel powertrain option).

Talk to a calibration (i.e. computer tuning) engineer or read the SAE papers and one of the hardest parts of building a diesel for the North American market is meeting drivability and emission requirements. We have a much more diverse range of operating conditions and the N.A. Cruze Turbo Diesel was GM's first application for selective catalyst reduction and exhaust after treatment on a passenger car (the overseas market Cruze and other models use different diesel powertrains without these features).

In other words while I'm sure GM public relations may have touted that they hoped to have a 10% take rake, the marketing and leadership at GM was probably using the Cruze as a test bed to see market reaction, prepare their dealer networks for passenger car service and maintenance, build experience on the sales side, and use the car as a testbed for a lot of new emission technologies that will be needed here and in Europe.

It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't much if any profit on the diesel models but GM has gained a lot of experience. I'm hoping they've used the teething issues and learned from their early adopters and will be able to make a full offensive when the redesigned 2017 model comes out. Time will tell.

xwesx

stever said:

Got frost?

Nope, but it isn't long off if this coudy, rainy crap continues! Temps are lower 40s to maybe 50ish for the next week in the forecast. It's all over, my friends! LOL

ruking1

Bears around here (South Lake Tahoe, CA) seem to be in full summer vacation mode, seemingly unconcerned about the upcoming fall, let alone winter. I suspect dangerous fire season will last until February. A couple of seasons ago, we went skiing on the north side. Not far away on the way home, they were fighting a forest fire, at the same time.

gagrice

stever said:

hm, looks like I ran out of gas doing my spreadsheet on the last van. At 175k my gas was running .22 a mile, and I didn't update the last 25,000 miles. Give or take - I tracked gallons and miles, but not cost per gallon on each tank. Everything together was more like .41 a mile.

My cost to date on the 2013 Touareg TDI is $1.07 per mile. That includes the payment of $921 per month. Got to love that no interest $0 down payment. Two years down, three to go. Then my cost per mile should be in the under 20 cent per mile range. Unless diesel goes way back up. Or I get antsy for a new diesel SUV.

stever

I used to tinker with the deprecation component, using TMV for the value. That was getting me closer to .58 a mile. Writing off the whole initial cost (~$22k divided by 200k) adds on another .11 a mile so that's about right I guess. I got lazy about keeping up with taxes and insurance.

Any way you slice it, cars aren't a cheap hobby. But none of them are.

ruking1

stever said:

I used to tinker with the deprecation component, using TMV for the value. That was getting me closer to .58 a mile. Writing off the whole initial cost (~$22k divided by 200k) adds on another .11 a mile so that's about right I guess. I got lazy about keeping up with taxes and insurance.

Any way you slice it, cars aren't a cheap hobby. But none of them are.

That's correct!

IF I sold my 03 Jetta TDI right now with the 187,000 miles, basically the cost of ownership would be about 6.4 cents a mile. IF I just totally write it off against the initial cost, it's 9.6 cents per mile.

Like model @ 25/50 mpg & current prices of $ 2.99 PUG/$ 2.41 ULSD, that is $22,365-9,013= $13,352 SAVED! I have read the TDI also sells for app $2,700 more.

Not @ all bad for a $236 premium @ that time.

ruking1

It might beg the question, IF I actually did spend $3000 for the diesel option, would I still have saved money?

carboy21

ruking1 said:

It might beg the question, IF I actually did spend $3000 for the diesel option, would I still have saved money?

With the gas prices being low, it does not make sense to pay a premium for a diesel . 2015 Passat TDI SE has a $5ooo knocked off the MRSP making it same priced as the Gas version. Its worth it at this parity only .

MSRP: $30,565
Internet Price: $25,120

You Save:
$5,445

ruking1

Indeed hybrid OEM's need to price way closer to their gas like models to make ANY sense.

Low POSTED fuel prices ARE being used here !!!!??? That is $14,960 SAVED IF you use $4.00 for gas / ULSD prices! (29,920-14,960) So your assertion is not true!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-24/gasoline-is-both-incredibly-cheap-and-absurdly-expensive

@ 39 .6 mpg, 15 Passat TDI and @42 mpg Accord hybrid, you might want to run fuel prices that you are concerned with. It would be a no brainer for us to get 42 mpg in Passat TDI. I doubt seriously you will get 50 in the hybrid.

@ $4 = $7,265. ($26,154-$18,889) Your assertion is STILL not true!

Be that as it may...

So I think you're seeing both de facto and in the real world , that both VW and Mercedes, (in my friends ML 350 used example) are in fact making the gasser /diesel prices fairly similar.

My 2014 MB GLK 350/250 is minus -$500 cheaper for BlueTec diesel. I have even said it multiple times, albeit to multiple tone deaf receptions.

Indeed, similar gas/ULSD pricing has been my experience for four diesels in over 13 years. So for example, $236 is similar in price to the gasser (2003 VW Jetta TDI ). I have always used it tongue in cheek. You've also heard the drill on the 2009 VW Jetta TDI , with the TDI's IRS tax CREDIT? The tax credit in fact made it far cheaper than 2009 VW Jetta gassers. 2012 VWTouareg TDI? SOS/dd.

I was hoping not to detail this " code" directly, but obviously, your research and the math indicates it. So given Accord hybrid " pat" pricing (aka higher than Passat TDI) , it makes no sense over both Passat TDI AND Accord gas.

You want the 15 Passat TDI cheaper? Simple, get a used one! Get one the dealership use use /s/d internally, after you made your best NEW deal. Picky? Ask your dealer to call you when they find one closer to what you want.

ruking1

If EV were SO affordable, might ask why they gave the wealthy tax subsidies?

http://news.yahoo.com/california-pulls-plug-electric-car-subsidies-rich-175147859.html

celliot130

I would definitely consider buying one if they were more affordable. For me, fuel economy is a consideration, but secondary to performance, affordability, and practicality. I'm impressed enough with the increased fuel economy of diesel vehicles, but with the price of diesel and oil changes, it doesn't seem to be that advantageous. Plus in my town, it's a bit hard to find a pump. I'd have to plan my fill ups to avoid going out of my way. Not that much of a headache, but would take a little getting used to. Still, the simpler maintenance, lower depreciation, and increased power of a diesel car appeals to me. But the price sticker makes me lose interest right away.

ruking1

I had a conversation with the friend who owns the 13 MB GL 350 BlueTec ! With no hesitation, he said he absolutely loved it ! For 2 tankfuls (app 1,400 miles), he posted consistent a 28 miles a gallon. Pretty WOW for a sub 5,500 # SUV and 455#ft of torque. He hasn't towed with it yet, so no feedback on the MPG.

houdini1

ruking1 said:

houdini1 said:

ruking1 said:

The fact that the Passat TDI is competitive against both the Honda Accord gas & gas hybrid speaks volumes. Noteworthy is that the Honda Accord has to go to a 3.5 L V-6 (75% larger) to beat the 4 cylinder 2.0L Passat TDI's 236 pound feet of torque by 16 # ft. Of course, there is a substantial mpg penalty. ( fuelly.com 39.6 vs 28 mpg or 11.6 mpg LESS!)

The other way to look @ it is a 3.5 L V6 diesel can put out app 465# ft to 525 # ft and get app 28 to 30 mpg.

On the other hand, the Audi Q5 diesel is about $8500. more expensive than the lowest priced Q5 gasser. Not sure if they tacked on more equipment on the diesel, but that price difference is a killer. I read somewhere that the average price difference between gas and diesel cars is $3,000.

i'm not sure how you could miss this, but in the Honda Accord line there's roughly $10,800 difference between the lowest and highest priced Honda Accord. The Honda Accord hybrid differences are roughly $ 5,700.

So I think it's more than obvious that most folks would rather buy the do dah's for 10,800 to 5,700 rather than 3,000 for a diesel.

If you really dude the Audi diesel up, it goes for around $62, 250. and the lowest priced Audi gasser goes for about 42,250. And the gasser is no stripper: Turbo 4 cyl, leather, nav., AWD, etc.

ruking1

Evidently, the same is/can be true for an even smaller Audi niche market: be it the smaller % TDI or larger % gasser.

Diesel power train options in models are more restricted, yet run the $ gambit from mild to wild. By far, more % & $$'s are spent on options in gassers rather than TDI's.

gagrice

I am disappointed that Audi used the V6 TDI in the Q5. They are available with the 2.0L TDI in two different power ranges everywhere else. Also 20% lower priced. My favorite is the A4 Allroad TDI. Too bad for Audi, they have to offer what I want or no sale.

ruking1

It would appear that the Q5 is sort of like the CUV "sports car" market niche. Yes, Iagree with you that almost any model that they could've put diesel in would benefit from multiple diesel engine options.

Evidently, Audi's constant improvement program efforts are paying dividends! Customer survey's seem to edge Audi quality up there, almost second to none. I am sure they are aiming to be number one (past Lexus, et al) or at least equal with Porsche .

Unrelated

TRAFIC! the good news bad news ?

..."Commuters in Washington, D.C., suffer the most, losing an average of 82 hours a year to rush-hour slowdowns, a new study finds. Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York come next on the list of urban areas with the longest delays."...(vs 42 hrs nationally)

See, I can't even make this stuff up?

..."Rounding out the Top 10 worst commuting cities are San Jose, Boston, Seattle, Chicago, Houston and Riverside-San Bernardino."...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blame-beeping-economy-worst-us-040552266.html

The real issue is that the 4 diesels that we operate are under some of the most grueling conditions. Additionally, the SOS/DD trek ( zero to 7,300 ft) are usually only superseded by treks on roads in the Rocky Mountains .

..."Overall, Americans experienced 6.9 billion hours of traffic delays in 2014 compared to 6.6 billion in 2007 and 1.8 billion in 1982."... ($ estimates $ 160 B

I say if Congress, et al refuses to fix it with transportation monies, they already levy from fuel taxing paying Americans, give us all tax credits @ our per hour rates for delays the inaction results in. Do you think that might be a motivator to get things done?

I for one could use a $10,000 tax credit, but then again, who couldn't ? Then charge Congressmen 82 hrs extra, at their rates , off their salaries ( minus -8,000 per year) and retirement plans for their hard working INACTION ! ? Think they might find any number of ways to get things done?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm

stever

And by the time you pave everything over, we'll all go to autonomous cars that are uber-shared, and we'll have billion dollar programs to rip pavement up to put urban farms in, since the gross number of cars on the roads will shrink by 75%.

DC is pretty bad; we bailed on a trip a couple of years back when we couldn't find a parking spot at one of the farthest flung metro stations.

ruking1

Even pavement is recyclable ! When broken or no longer useful......

Early in my career, as a wee lad, I spent about a year working in the DC area! It was apparent even 40 years ago, that was the place to be if one wanted to make a career in government. Lois Learner being one example.

Entrepreneurialism was not a bad path either.

Then retire somewhere in the area ( in Virginia) as part of the mink and manure set. Back then, I particularly like the Arlington VA area! FF, look @ how it is billed now!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/21/dc_metro_area_is_super_rich_7_of_the_10_ten_counties_are_in_the_dc_suburbs_.html

stever

My sister had a townhouse in Alexandria in the 70s but that went away in the divorce. No way could she afford to live even on the fringes of that spot now. It's amazing how fast the burbs grew and how far people commute just to get to the Metro stations.

ruking1

I did a short little scan on Zillow real estate in Alexandria, Virginia! Those fixer uppers, I was looking back then at for oh, I don't remember exactly: 35,000 to $50,000 or so.? Man, it sure brought me back! The current prices are down right scary $ 825,000!

slorenzen

ruking1 said:

I did a short little scan on Zillow real estate in Alexandria Virginia! Man it sure brought me back! The current prices are down right scary

Doesn't look any crazier than where I used to live(Campbell, Ca.)

My old house, all 1500 sq. ft. of it, shows at just under 1.2 million.

ruking1

Well I hope you got that or close to it, when you sold! In hindsight, don't we all wish we had a couple to five to sell right now?

nyccarguy

ruking1 said:

I had a conversation with the friend who owns the 13 MB GL 350 BlueTec ! With no hesitation, he said he absolutely loved it ! For 2 tankfuls (app 1,400 miles), he posted consistent a 28 miles a gallon. Pretty WOW for a sub 5,500 # SUV and 455#ft of torque. He hasn't towed with it yet, so no feedback on the MPG.

I really like the GL.  Seems like a good vehicle to buy used or off lease.  Especially the BlueTec.

gagrice

stever said:

And by the time you pave everything over, we'll all go to autonomous cars that are uber-shared, and we'll have billion dollar programs to rip pavement up to put urban farms in, since the gross number of cars on the roads will shrink by 75%.

DC is pretty bad; we bailed on a trip a couple of years back when we couldn't find a parking spot at one of the farthest flung metro stations.

Parking is one of my biggest turn-offs going into any city. Our great new library in downtown San Diego has under ground parking and it is free with validation in the library for two hours. We are rarely there more than an hour. My wife can get her 10 books for a two week reading in short order. They have a whole floor of fiction and many of the old authors of mysteries she reads. By then it is time for lunch and we try a new place on our 35 mile return trip home. With diesel down under $2.50 and 26 MPG or better in the Touareg TDI, makes for a cheap day in town. Many times drive along the coast to find good eats.

gagrice

slorenzen said:

ruking1 said:

I did a short little scan on Zillow real estate in Alexandria Virginia! Man it sure brought me back! The current prices are down right scary

Doesn't look any crazier than where I used to live(Campbell, Ca.)

My old house, all 1500 sq. ft. of it, shows at just under 1.2 million.

I swear when my place hits the One Million mark, I am headed up Scott's direction. I have a couple places I would make an offer on.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/311-Waukeena-Way-Cottage-Grove-OR-97424/48456767_zpid/

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/32623-Glaisyer-Hill-Rd-Cottage-Grove-OR-97424/48460426_zpid/

ruking1

nyccarguy said:

ruking1 said:

I had a conversation with the friend who owns the 13 MB GL 350 BlueTec ! With no hesitation, he said he absolutely loved it ! For 2 tankfuls (app 1,400 miles), he posted consistent a 28 miles a gallon. Pretty WOW for a sub 5,500 # SUV and 455#ft of torque. He hasn't towed with it yet, so no feedback on the MPG.

I really like the GL.  Seems like a good vehicle to buy used or off lease.  Especially the BlueTec.

Yes, I can see why you like it. He is coming from a Acura MDX reference. He was another anecdotal reference for 18 to 22 mpg for approximately 110,000 miles, with app 420 miles range. He is also pretty happy about the GL's 739 miles range.

nyccarguy

Slow Diesel News Day: I can buy #2 heating oil for $1.60 per gallon cash or $1.64 if I use my credit card

ruking1

nyccarguy said:

Slow Diesel News Day: I can buy #2 heating oil for $1.60 per gallon cash or $1.64 if I use my credit card

Even @ $2.41 ULSD and IF I could buy ULSD @ $1.64, it is hard to wipe the jealousy off my face.

RBob gas app 1.355. HO 1.38.

houdini1

gagrice said:

I am disappointed that Audi used the V6 TDI in the Q5. They are available with the 2.0L TDI in two different power ranges everywhere else. Also 20% lower priced. My favorite is the A4 Allroad TDI. Too bad for Audi, they have to offer what I want or no sale.

If it's not too small for you, the A3 2.0L TDI sedan can be had, well equipped in the low $30's. Edmunds is very high on it. One of Edmunds long term test drivers said it was the best road trip car he had ever driven.

ruking1

houdini1 said:

gagrice said:

I am disappointed that Audi used the V6 TDI in the Q5. They are available with the 2.0L TDI in two different power ranges everywhere else. Also 20% lower priced. My favorite is the A4 Allroad TDI. Too bad for Audi, they have to offer what I want or no sale.

If it's not too small for you, the A3 2.0L TDI sedan can be had, well equipped in the low $30's. Edmunds is very high on it. One of Edmunds long term test drivers said it was the best road trip car he had ever driven.

High praise indeed ! It would appear that the basic drive train is really a VW TDI's.

ruking1

The 14 MB GLK 250 blue tech has been driven in the daily grueling commute (54 miles R/T) heavy traffic, for the last couple of weeks . Just took a look at the figures, computer/pen & paper calcs. It is posting 38.9 mpg. It is a bit of a surprise, as we post 40 mpg in the 09 VW Jetta TDI, in the same commute?

ruking1

Going unused? $$$'s

http://news.yahoo.com/many-u-drivers-ignoring-tech-features-cars-survey-171315052--finance.html

stever

Nice link; guess you could say that about computers, tablets, phones and some frigerators and home lighting systems.

I still want all the gizmos.

About the redundancy - when I do something on the computer, there's usually at least three ways to get to my end result (shoot, just choosing to mouse or keyboard is a choice right there).

So maybe I can parallel park just fine, but there may be times I want the car to park itself while I dig out my list or phone out of my pocket.

The trouble of course, is that lots of this stuff isn't intuitive. It took me months just to find the on/off switch for my van's 120 outlet, including searching the manual and online.

stevedebi

Wow, been a while since I read the forums. I drive a Ford C-Max Energi (plug in hybrid), and my wife has a 2014 Passat TDI SE. A couple of notes on the Hybrid Vs Passat TDI:

- Depending on your region, consider temperature. A hybrid will do much worse in the winter when the temperature affects the battery. Our TDI has no problem is lower temperatures, although I understand that it may take longer to start in really cold climates (unlike LA).

- There is nothing like that double clutch automatic transmission. It is like driving a manual. In my opinion it is vastly superior to the CVT in my C-Max.

- In terms of longevity, a battery pack will lose charge over the years. The diesel will not, although the DSG does require a 45K maintenance interval. But at 200K and 10 years, the hybrid will not work as well as the diesel. Most of the high mileage hybrids that are cited are from Taxis, but they have a lot of miles, not a lot of years.

- For family use, the Passat wins hands down, due to the storage in the trunk. Words can't describe how big it is. The Honda would do for some luggage, but the VW is superb. Every time we pack for a trip, I can't believe it.

- The diesel will get better mileage when driven aggressively. You have to drive carefully to achieve MPG in any hybrid. With the TDI, you just drive.

ruking1

..."I still want all the gizmos. "...

Really, I am all for freedom of choice. But the truth is I am actually feeling "forced " to have accepted some stuff that I really don't want. (Like model)

I think it ha been demonstrated time and time again (on this thread anyway), that people would rather spend way more money for the gizmos, than they would way less for the diesel option. So certain cost savings are not real or clear motivators.

It would also seem that gizmos don't really do a lot for residual value, or there does not seem to be many studies or comparos that indicate they do. The latest computer hacking of the cars steering, braking controls etc., is not a confidence builder either. Yet , by in large like model diesels seem to sell for higher residual values.

Another is say $10,000 of gizmos will cost in California another 9% on sales tax. In some other states, this also pads the yearly registration fees.

I am sure people can vouch for ithis ,n the case of options that either burnout or don't work. It can cost a lot more money for repair. IF they're not fixed, they actually subtract from resale or residual values .

gagrice

ruking1 said:

The 14 MB GLK 250 blue tech has been driven in the daily grueling commute (54 miles R/T) heavy traffic, for the last couple of weeks . Just took a look at the figures, computer/pen & paper calcs. It is posting 38.9 mpg. It is a bit of a surprise, as we post 40 mpg in the 09 VW Jetta TDI, in the same commute?

I am glad you like the GLK Bluetec. I may get rid of my PU and the wife's LS400 and get one for a daily driver. I will look for a 2013 coming off lease, if they are not too pricey. It looks like they hold their value very well.

ruking1

The 12 VW Touareg TDI, in that same commute, gets between 31 and 32 mpg (tankful) consistently.

stever

@ruking1, you're right about options not adding much to resale values although they may help your car sell faster. When you drive them forever you forget such details and the tax bite gets mitigated a bit over a decade.

"U.K. motorists with diesel-powered cars are enjoying a rare treat. For the
first time in 14 years, the fuel costs less at the pumps than gasoline and the situation should persist at least a few more months."

Why British Diesel Drivers Can Rejoice for First Time Since 2001 (Bloomberg)