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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2015
    Yeah but your fluid fluctuates a lot less than mine does. B)

    (yours is always high, mine, on rare occasions, isn't, lol.)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    One key is to drive gasser's /TDI 's in their SWEET spots! (given the variables one has to work with)

    So combined with your linked EPA article, one can use even MORE TMI to better MPG! :DB):( or ....NOT!)!

    To TDIers, why drive like EPA protocols, when driving in its sweet spots gets better to way better EPA's? :DB)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Yeah but your fluid fluctuates a lot less than mine does. B)

    (yours is always high, mine, on rare occasions, isn't, lol.)

    Very True, don't think CA RUG ever made it below $2.25. Noticed this morning on our jaunt to the Library, most name brands are at $3.69 for RUG. Holding at $2.99 for diesel. My stations in Oregon have all raised diesel to the same or close to RUG. Have many states raised their gas tax to take advantage of the lower prices??
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    Yeah but your fluid fluctuates a lot less than mine does. B)

    (yours is always high, mine, on rare occasions, isn't, lol.)

    Very True, don't think CA RUG ever made it below $2.25. Noticed this morning on our jaunt to the Library, most name brands are at $3.69 for RUG. Holding at $2.99 for diesel. My stations in Oregon have all raised diesel to the same or close to RUG. Have many states raised their gas tax to take advantage of the lower prices??
    For the other fluid fluidities:

    I can't speak for other states, but it appears Gov Moonbeam's/POTUS BHO's discount day's are OVER!? Time for higher taxation and more of them to make UP over what was discounted?

    Slow news day, diesel

    USLD $ 3.15
    Rug $3.59
    MG $3.69
    Pug $3.79
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,501
    @ruking1 - have you seen "diesel Dave" videos on YouTube?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    nyccarguy said:

    @ruking1 - have you seen "diesel Dave" videos on YouTube?

    I can't say that I have.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    WAIT ! And then, ... it gets better !!! ???

    ..."Neusser also detailed the 2.0-liter four-cylinder TDI [above] that was first announced two years ago. Thanks to an ultra-high-pressure injection system, dual turbocharging with variable turbine geometry, and an electric charger, it makes 300 horsepower and 443 lb-ft of torque. That’s within spitting distance of some V-8 turbo-diesels.

    In fact, Neusser is passionate about diesels: “As you all know, this engine [type] has been criticized for allegedly contributing to poor air quality in cities. Frankly, as a sweeping statement, this is rubbish.” And he went on: “Demonizing the diesel engine means working against the goals of climate protection.”"...

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/vw-announces-new-6-0l-w-12-tsi-bi-turbo-tdi-diesel-and-1-0l-three-cylinder-engines/

    So I am guessing that is why the MB 2.1 L (bi) turbo @ 369 ft #'s is exciting !!!!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    One of these in diesel 4matic guise, as available in many developed locales, would get me into a diesel:

    image
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    'Four matics" advantages, per se might not " jump out " beyond small niches in US markets. I also suspect many (75% of the PVF are large cars to light trucks) who want closer to full sized cars (and bigger) would also like the better mpg and other performance parameters diesels provide.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    C wagon isn't exactly a compact, although it might not be the bloated thing many Americans seem to enjoy.

    http://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w212/584434-w212-2009-600-000-km-d.html

    Only in a diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Your reponse confirms what I have said. Diesels, 4 matics, station wagons, less than large cars and MB's are singlar to multiple niche markets @ best.

    Diesels, large car to light trucks are said to be down to 50% of the diesel passenger vehicle fleet. So that makes diesel (less than large)cars @ less than 2.5%.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    A little TMI behind a 47 mpg 2.0 L 236# FT (DIESEL AND) GASSER ENGINE variants.

    Audi A4 EA888.

    ..."The system was the brainchild of American engineer Ralph Miller, who earned a patent for it on Christmas Eve, 1957. It works with both gas and diesel fuels and with two- and four-stroke cycles.

    Typically, a Miller-cycle engine leaves the intake valve open on the compression phase longer than a normal engine. It operates in a similar fashion to the Atkinson-cycle engine, but uses forced induction (usually, but not always, a supercharger) to make up for the fuel-air mix forced out of the cylinder and through the open valve by the rising piston. The turbocharger helps the Miller-cycle engine to avoid power losses, even as it slashes fuel consumption by increasing the fuel-air mix in the cylinder after the intake valve closes."...

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-audi-a4-to-revive-an-old-engine-technology-to-achieve-near-diesel-economy/

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-vw-golf-sportwagen-alltrack-first-drive-review

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-vw-golf-sportwagen-tdi-manual-test-review
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A Golf Alltrack without TDI is criminal. VW is not doing anything that will entice to me trade in my Touareg in a couple years when the warranty & free service is used up. I guess I just keep using their money at 0% interest.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    The Touareg TDI will remain in a niche, within a niche, within a niche, within a niche for a while, specifically: 1. AWD/TDI 2. 8 speed AT (6 speed AT common) 3. WAY powerful (406 ft #'s) 4. VW branded Porsche Cayenne. ZERO %, loaded with GRAVY. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ruking1 said:

    The Touareg TDI will remain in a niche, within a niche, within a niche, within a niche for a while, specifically: 1. AWD/TDI 2. 8 speed AT (6 speed AT common) 3. WAY powerful (406 ft #'s) 4. VW branded Porsche Cayenne. ZERO %, loaded with GRAVY. ;)

    TMI behind tmi:Touareg TDI is a MS CUV. Tiquan is long in the CUV tooth. No Tiquan TDI. Two small CUV's due in future. Beyond 6 speed DSG's due. Begs the question which line is next for "platformization'. Given some of goals and obstacles, 5 to 7 years of same advantages seem a can do easy.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Slow news diesel day@ ULSD $3.19

    RUG $3.63, MG $3.73, PUG $3.83.

    Interesting take in "resort" land

    http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/US_Gasoline_Gas_Stations/South_Lake_Tahoe/105251/index.aspx
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2015
    We are still holding diesel under $2.99. Hard to find RUG under $3.57

    PS
    Means the Nissan costs me 23 cents a mile and the Touareg 11 cents a mile. Twice as much to drive my PU as my SUV.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    The youngest daughter just completed a X Country (app 2,500 miles, 10 states, E40- 1225 miles) trip, in a 2004 Honda Civic @ 33 mpg. (ATL, GA area) B);)

    Almost nutty in comparison, that FAR heavier and more POWERFUL diesels can match and/or EXCEED a ubiquitous (GASSER) economy compact car's mpg.

    VW T TDI 32/33 mpg, MB 250 B/T 35 mpg, VW Jetta TDI 38-42 mpg. Bringing up the 2003 Jetta TDI @ 48-52 would probably be considered by some folks following this debate as Obamaizing, aka spiking the football. :D

    AND probably @ higher speeds!!! ??? ;):DB)

    ( I would be remiss in second guessing her far lower (trip) speeds, even as each knows how the other drives).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Slow news diesel day, even in Georgia?

    (Local WalMart) ULSD @ $2.59

    RUG $2.54
    MG $2.67
    PUG $ 2.82
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates fuel prices could drop as low as $2.29 per gallon for gasoline and $2.87 for diesel."

    I'm not seeing it, lol.

    Government Forecasts Low Gas & Diesel Prices Through 2016 (hybridcars.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    I am glad GA didn't get the memo for the INCREASE in diesel pricing (masquerading as a DROP) !! ?? ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    An interesting radar PING of the 2015 MY market on "LIGHT WEIGHT" YUP, not just another VW TDI article! ;)

    The Alfa Romeo 4C Is Proof Americans Don’t Really Want Light Cars
    Collin Woodard MORE ARTICLES
    May 17, 2015

    http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/the-alfa-romeo-4c-is-proof-americans-dont-really-want-light-cars.html/?ref=YF

    Corollary:

    I'd like to see the Mercedes Benz 2.1 L, 369 # ft BT propelling 2200 #'s (MINUS- 1900#'s) ???? !!!!!

    YEE HAW !!!

    Makes me wonder what MPG that would convert to in the real world ??? (from 33 H EPA)

    OR was Fintail really on to something (FAT PIG: the old Senator Evert Dirksen principle: a billion here/there, pretty soon some REAL money): DOO DAHS !!! ?????
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    "The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates fuel prices could drop as low as $2.29 per gallon for gasoline and $2.87 for diesel."

    I'm not seeing it, lol.

    Government Forecasts Low Gas & Diesel Prices Through 2016 (hybridcars.com)


    Hard to imagine going into Summer that gas here would be a buck and a half less. Diesel seems to be holding lower than RUG by about 80 cents per gallon. Which is amazing with CA diesel tax higher than our gas tax.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    NON diesel!!

    Interesting IIHS take on CRAPPY small car design (past) vs Why I Hate SUV's, Why Don't You" probably was and remains TOTALLY misguided.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1mBKeUeLo&spfreload=10
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    "The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates fuel prices could drop as low as $2.29 per gallon for gasoline and $2.87 for diesel."

    I'm not seeing it, lol.

    Government Forecasts Low Gas & Diesel Prices Through 2016 (hybridcars.com)


    Hard to imagine going into Summer that gas here would be a buck and a half less. Diesel seems to be holding lower than RUG by about 80 cents per gallon. Which is amazing with CA diesel tax higher than our gas tax.
    Four-dollar gasoline returns to the L.A. area
    ( Los Angeles Times)
    By ANDREW KHOURI AND SAMANTHA MASUNAGA


    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gasoline-prices-20150516-story.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Why frack, when you can.....

    Obama drills a hole in his climate policy

    By Eugene Robinson Opinion writer May 18 at 7:08 PM

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-perilous-all-of-the-above-energy-strategy/2015/05/18/4e6c8a64-fd90-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html?hpid=z3

    Why use LESS when you can use MORE?

    (Democratic) DRILL baby DRILL (policy) ? ? :DB)

    I may indeed have it BASACKWARDS!!!

    Why get 32/33 mpg @$3.23 ULSD in the 12 VW Touareg TDI when I can get 20 mpg @ $3.85 PUG in a 12 Touareg GASSER? (well @least I am enjoying the ride, while it is cheaper per mile driven fuel: .10 cents vs .1925 cents) ??
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am really enjoying the 80 cents less we pay for diesel than RUG. Gas hog PU mostly sits in the driveway.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    2016 Audi Q7

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/car-reviews/2016-audi-q7-first-drive/

    Combined output for the e-tron is 373 hp and a potent 516 lb-ft and fuel economy ratings measure in at a staggering 138.4 mpg. There’s no official timetable for the hybrid’s arrival, but Audi assured the journalists who gathered in Verbier that it would make its way to the U.S. eventually.

    For more savings at the pump, a detuned version of the standard 3.0-liter TDI will arrive in certain markets shortly after the Q7’s debut, returning 43.6 mpg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Interesting stat, WSJ sez:

    ..."About 2.1 million heavy-duty trucks handle the nation’s freight hauling, only a small percentage of which are powered by natural gas. And while demand for natural gas vehicles is growing, it’s not happening as quickly as some had anticipated.

    Forecasters with ACT Research LLC said they expect a big increase in the number of new heavy-duty trucks this year: 338,000 compared with about 297,000 added in 2014. Only about 3% of new trucks will run on natural gas—roughly the same level as last year."...

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/trucks-powered-by-natural-gas-help-or-hindrance-to-emissions-reduction-efforts-1432076386
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For more savings at the pump, a detuned version of the standard 3.0-liter TDI will arrive in certain markets shortly after the Q7’s debut, returning 43.6 mpg.

    I would take a look at the 5 seat Q7 detuned TDI. They are coming out with the NAV media center I am waiting for. Maybe by the time I am ready to trade in the current Touareg VW will be offering the same electronics. I still prefer the styling of the VW Touareg over all the other stable mates.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Just in terms of CUV's, the diesel offerings take power, mpg and utility to new levels. I happen to agree with you in the VW Touareg styling department.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    This might be a hint why Oregon wants to TRY the per mile (1.5 cents?) driven tax, supposedly forever in lieu of a per gal fuel tax.

    ..."There are a number of factors driving this, including state-level gas taxes, which tend to be regressive (everyone pays the same rate) and serve to moderately increase inequality. "...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/22/these-states-rob-from-the-poor-and-give-to-the-rich/?tid=hpModule_79c38dfc-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z14
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Seen in the wilds of Utah (I have my sources lol).


  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    This might be a hint why Oregon wants to TRY the per mile (1.5 cents?) driven tax, supposedly forever in lieu of a per gal fuel tax.

    ..."There are a number of factors driving this, including state-level gas taxes, which tend to be regressive (everyone pays the same rate) and serve to moderately increase inequality. "...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/22/these-states-rob-from-the-poor-and-give-to-the-rich/?tid=hpModule_79c38dfc-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z14


    Trying to get a handle on this inequality piece. I can see some of the rationale, like lower gas and sales tax helping the poor. What I found interesting, it is almost opposite the best places to retire tax wise.

    http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    According to the legislatures OWN estimates, they have (illegally) misappropriated @ least $ 59 BILLION dollars earmarked for ROAD repairs (by law) !!!!!!!!!

    This might be the GOOD news ???????

    The BAD news might be the realities might be FAR MORE (than $ 59 BILLION) !!!!! ?????

    So they want to continue to (illegally) MISAPPROPRIATE, while asking for still MORE taxation??????? They can't even admit that there are already taxations upon taxations upon taxations ALREADY !!!

    http://www.boe.ca.gov/news/2014/l380.pdf

    They are dishonest about that dishonesty ALREADY !!! ???

    So with 66 cents taxations (on $3.21 Costco) but ($ 2.0540 RBOB ) per gal taxations are already a MINIMUM of 21% per gal, (to a more realistic 32% )

    The states and the feds make more in taxations than the oil companies make in profit ("well run" oil company makes 9 cents per dollar) !!!!!!!

    http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/statemotorfuel-onepagers-apr-2015.pdf

    So how about stopping the misappropriation/s!!!! Put back earmarked for transportation monies for ... TRANSPORTATION REPAIRS !!! I know this might seem TOTALLY illogical.

    So, how long before they start the misappropriation process on NEW taxes !! ????

    Does total insanity come to mind ?????

    [non-permissible content removed]

    http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_28181192/gov-jerry-brown-legislators-wrestle-gas-tax-issue
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "DIESEL cars certified under EU rules as the cleanest yet built are pumping out toxic exhaust emissions at up to 9.9 times the official maximum, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed."

    Diesel tests reveal toxic truth (Sunday Times)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    stever said:

    "DIESEL cars certified under EU rules as the cleanest yet built are pumping out toxic exhaust emissions at up to 9.9 times the official maximum, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed."

    Diesel tests reveal toxic truth (Sunday Times)

    With asolutely ZERO correlation/s!!!!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2015
    Be nice if the rest of the article wasn't subscription only, but there'll be more news from other sources in a day or two.

    Well, there's this from last week which makes me wonder what the real "exclusive" in the Times is.

    Automakers’ diesel pollution claims to be put to test by Brussels (Financial Times)

    "Carmakers’ claims about their vehicles’ exhaust emissions — long criticised as wildly optimistic — are set to come under fresh scrutiny after the EU agreed to implement “real-world” testing for diesel cars."

    What it boils down to is real world testing instead of relying on the labs. Reminds me of the disconnect between EPA MPG testing and consumer numbers.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Kind of a good history recap, even if you don't believe the conclusion:

    Are Diesel Fuel’s Days Numbered? (cheatsheet.com)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    Judging by the massive demographic mistakes committed by the guilted patronizing past their prime leadership in Britainistan and the devolving EUSSR, I'd want to know a little more about the controls around the data behind those claims - especially the FT stuff. British intelligence, nah, I'll pass.. Brussels hasn't done anything right in well, forever, no reason to trust them now.

    But in the US market, I'd wager diesel will never be more than a niche offering, and will make the most sense in heavier vehicles and those requiring PUG.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    I think anyone that expects a less than 2.5% minority market (US market diesel cars) to get to 55% of the PVF (like the diesel car European PVF) is perhaps unrealistically hopeful.

    To say that I both like and enjoy diesels advantages would be more than obvious.

    It has been more than amply demonstrated that the overwhelming majority are just fine with paying MORE per mile driven for gassers!! They also either don't care about diesel advantages or are just fine with the gassers performances.

    However, that there are any % of diesels in the 95% PLUS+ gasser US markets are due to the enviromental and US contradictory policies. So, here! here ! to dysfunction. This is not to mention the fact that European car makers have another diesel market to sell in.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    ruking1 said:

    According to the legislatures OWN estimates, they have (illegally) misappropriated @ least $ 59 BILLION dollars earmarked for ROAD repairs (by law) !!!!!!!!!

    This might be the GOOD news ???????

    The BAD news might be the realities might be FAR MORE (than $ 59 BILLION) !!!!! ?????

    So they want to continue to (illegally) MISAPPROPRIATE, while asking for still MORE taxation??????? They can't even admit that there are already taxations upon taxations upon taxations ALREADY !!!

    http://www.boe.ca.gov/news/2014/l380.pdf

    They are dishonest about that dishonesty ALREADY !!! ???

    So with 66 cents taxations (on $3.21 Costco) but ($ 2.0540 RBOB ) per gal taxations are already a MINIMUM of 21% per gal, (to a more realistic 32% )

    The states and the feds make more in taxations than the oil companies make in profit ("well run" oil company makes 9 cents per dollar) !!!!!!!

    http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/statemotorfuel-onepagers-apr-2015.pdf

    So how about stopping the misappropriation/s!!!! Put back earmarked for transportation monies for ... TRANSPORTATION REPAIRS !!! I know this might seem TOTALLY illogical.

    So, how long before they start the misappropriation process on NEW taxes !! ????

    Does total insanity come to mind ?????

    [non-permissible content removed]

    http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_28181192/gov-jerry-brown-legislators-wrestle-gas-tax-issue

    Don't be silly. How else can they find the money to pay for those cushy jobs for their friends and relatives except by stealing it from all the rest of us?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2015
    Getting back to diesels, I don't see a big surge toward diesel adoption in the States either. I think the current boomlet will last longer than the hybrid blip (although we may see another one of those if gas pops up a dollar).

    For every advance diesel makes on the mpg front, the gassers will counter, thanks to CAFE. Just getting the fleet average to where it currently is has made a big impact on the oil glut. Most people just want their tech and don't much care about the performance or torque issues, especially if the diesel buy-in premium remains a couple of thousand bucks.

    And ironically, that oil glut is just the ticket to keep alternative fuels in the margins, since the infrastructure costs to build out, say, hydrogen stations (or even LNG) doesn't pencil out.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    Diesels have literally been the "mechanical rabbit" in the (GASSER) greyhound races (dog). There is really no technolgical break through that can = to or EXCEED the 33% plus diesel advantage. Otherwise, a twin turbo 2.1 L MB gasser engine should hold parity to the 2.1 L TT blue tec! Instead, the 3.5 L gasser is the like model in the MB GLK series. That 3.5 L gasser like model displacement sports significant disadvantages.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    If diesel goes much beyond that 2.5% number in the US, I would be shocked. It's not going to happen. Mainstream gassers are good enough for the masses. However, there should be just enough demand to keep the unusual somewhat offbeat offerings alive here.

    I am surprised MB hasn't put their 4cyl gas turbos in larger cars like the GLK. I bet it will come in time.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    "DIESEL cars certified under EU rules as the cleanest yet built are pumping out toxic exhaust emissions at up to 9.9 times the official maximum, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed."

    Diesel tests reveal toxic truth (Sunday Times)


    I don't think a Euro6 legal diesel would make it under our EPA examination. So far the Japanese have not presented a diesel that passes our tests. Even the 2.0L VW TDI needs urea injection to be used in the Passat. Something does have me a little ticked. My 2013 Touareg TDI has to have a smog check this year to get licensed. Gassers get by for 5 years. Hope my smog guy is set up for diesel. Too many con men in the smog business. Fail your car to get a second shot and fee. It is all a big scam.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    stever said:

    Getting back to diesels, I don't see a big surge toward diesel adoption in the States either. I think the current boomlet will last longer than the hybrid blip (although we may see another one of those if gas pops up a dollar).

    For every advance diesel makes on the mpg front, the gassers will counter, thanks to CAFE. Just getting the fleet average to where it currently is has made a big impact on the oil glut. Most people just want their tech and don't much care about the performance or torque issues, especially if the diesel buy-in premium remains a couple of thousand bucks.

    And ironically, that oil glut is just the ticket to keep alternative fuels in the margins, since the infrastructure costs to build out, say, hydrogen stations (or even LNG) doesn't pencil out.

    Right!

    However it is ABSOLUTE stupidity to NOT expand the %'s OF alternative fuels such as diesel, natural gas, batteries, EV, etc. The fact that even the majority of environmentalists do not buy "environmental" cars makes the paraniod enviromental narrative completely suspect. Indeed it is a RINGING endorsement of COAL and NUCLEAR !!!!! Premiums are even much higher than for diesels, as if that needs to be noted.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's not suspect so much as it still takes (usually) more green to be green. Good thing the PR mavens tagged your fuel of choice "Clean Diesel" instead of "Green Diesel". Or worse, "Organic Diesel". The price would have jumped by fifty cents a gallon.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    "DIESEL cars certified under EU rules as the cleanest yet built are pumping out toxic exhaust emissions at up to 9.9 times the official maximum, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed."

    Diesel tests reveal toxic truth (Sunday Times)


    I don't think a Euro6 legal diesel would make it under our EPA examination. So far the Japanese have not presented a diesel that passes our tests. Even the 2.0L VW TDI needs urea injection to be used in the Passat. Something does have me a little ticked. My 2013 Touareg TDI has to have a smog check this year to get licensed. Gassers get by for 5 years. Hope my smog guy is set up for diesel. Too many con men in the smog business. Fail your car to get a second shot and fee. It is all a big scam.
    They are just into collecting the fee. They just look for tail pipe smoke @ specific rpm, and signs of modifications. So yes it's a SCAM.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2015
    stever said:

    It's not suspect so much as it still takes (usually) more green to be green. Good thing the PR mavens tagged your fuel of choice "Clean Diesel" instead of "Green Diesel". Or worse, "Organic Diesel". The price would have jumped by fifty cents a gallon.


    It is more like following the potential for misappropriated fuel tax monies! For the actual monies appropriated, we should have better roads than any autobahn example. In CA they force oil companies to produce niche RUG/PUB blends, instead of comoditized RUG/PUG. They tax again by use of 10% ethanol. They also make you pay for FAILED programs such as MTBE.
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