What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

andres3 said:

Well, my understanding of the diesel settlement is you'll get the buyback offer you get regardless of condition (from poor to excellent) won't make any difference, only mileage will. Worse than poor is non-functioning/non-functional. Can you tow it to VW to get it bought back? What if all that remains of the TDI is a charred VIN number on a charred frame member?

And I must comment again, getting a "BONUS" buyback bonus for owing more money than the buyback offer is an insane bailout for high debt thrill seekers.

You have a gross misunderstanding of the settlement terms. Pay a high to low price lawyer to read it for you. He might be able to figure out ways to get your misunderstandings correctly understood & scenarios paid for. Let us know your findings.

ruking1

http://www.wsj.com/articles/truckers-railroads-slashed-jobs-in-june-1467998020

It might be part of a "crash diesel" larger agenda! ?

ruking1

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-world-largest-oil-reserves-214600980.html

You heard here first, many posts ago, you never guess who has the largest oil reserves?

trexinmytank

I think I'd only purchase a diesel car if it was the Donut Car from Simpsons Hit and Run OR if it was previously owned by someone famous and cool like the lead singers of Smash Mouth or Sugar Ray

ruking1

Is that another way of saying that cars like that, and cars you drive are actually powered by gassers?

fintail

Spotted - two old VW diesels, a turn of the century Golf and a mid 90s Passat wagon. No visible smoke, but you could hear the Golf like an old 240D. Also saw a maybe early 90s GM diesel heavy truck, which was emitting a bit more particulate matter.

gagrice

Got the Nissan Frontier smog test this morning. Asked what they were doing different with VW TDI coming in for smog checks. Same as before dieselgate. He said the concern among his customers was what to do if they had to give up their VW TDI?

stever

California rejects VW's plan to fix 3-liter diesel cars (USA Today)

gagrice

stever said:

California rejects VW's plan to fix 3-liter diesel cars (USA Today)

I don't see anything but a BIG WIN for us owners. We keep driving them until the dust settles. At that point buybacks are at the pre dieselgate value. Or they get fixed and we might get another cash present for being such good customers. I am thinking of buying a VW Mt Bike with my $500 in house Visa card.

ruking1

Yes! To be fair, given, what was promised for the affected j2.0 L TDI's, I can't see where they can do any less for the 3.0 L. TDI's, percentage wise % wise.

ruking1

Using two Good Will VW dealer cards, on the 2009 VW Jetta TDI, the 120,000 miles (major) service interval & rear brake pads & rotors were done. Hopefully I can get a little more use of it before the buyback.

ruking1

http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-bmw-diesel-lineup-delayed-over-federal-scrutiny/

2017 BMW diesels!?

ruking1

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-19/even-after-recall-vw-s-dirty-diesels-won-t-meet-air-standards?cmpid=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo

The saga goes on X 10.

stever

I know you guys love your cars and it's not your fault and all, but it does seem kind of odd to let owners continue to drive their gross polluters.

stever

btw, diesel is running $2.25 here at the "expensive" gas stations. And that reminds me that I need to order propane.

ruking1

Don't forget government agencies, like CARB are getting billions $$'s. So it's the least that they can do.

The N0X (of affected TDI's) generated is no more N0X than a late model full-size (gas) pick up truck.

stever

Pretty bad then that a little ol' Golf is doing as bad as a pickemup truck.

Fact is that "diesel engine exhaust contains more NOx than gasoline engines." (Quora)

As we've seen with the BP spill and tobacco settlements, the VW money going to the state and feds will be put toward other "needs", like that Alabama governor's mansion on the beach or for a new football stadium.

ruking1

Don't also forget the TDI tests are confined to a VERY limited number of examples; which still may or may not be representative of the REAL world population. So for example, CARB still get biannual smog testing fees, where they do NOT actually test for smog.

Can't say I disagree with your last paragraph.

fintail

When I see smoky old commercial rigs forced off the road, then there can be crying about "gross polluters". Not to mention the pollution caused by landscaping machinery, shipping, poorly managed traffic controls, and the faux-green of hybrids and EVs. Oh wait, negligence and lobbyism are gine.

stever

All that'd be good to (not) see too. Had a CAT working next door this morning puffing out a black cloud every time it went into reverse.

fintail

I saw an early 90s GM heavy truck last week that wasn't just leaving a cloud, but a black sooty smoke pall everywhere it went. And cheater VWs are the target, lol, priorities.

stever

11 million cheats....

fintail

Millions of stinker diesel commercials (and private diesel pickups falling under similar rules), high emission landscaping machinery, endless tons of fumes emitted by cars stopped at out of sequence traffic controls, etc. But I guess none of those lied, and that's the key. The lie, not the emissions. Let's not pretend this is about the environment.

gagrice

stever said:

I know you guys love your cars and it's not your fault and all, but it does seem kind of odd to let owners continue to drive their gross polluters.

Gross polluters are the millions of diesel trucks that are not held to the high standard VW diesels are held. A semi diesel can put out 125 times as much NOx as my Touareg TDI legally. And they put 100s of 1000s of miles on them.

stever

They're all pieces of the puzzle. I guess some people cheat at puzzles too.

And I agree that the standards need to be tightened. But VW is the one caught (so far) acting in a criminal way (in the legal sense, not the "fresh air" sense). People are a bit less inclined to let them greenwash this one.

gagrice

stever said:

Pretty bad then that a little ol' Golf is doing as bad as a pickemup truck.

Fact is that "diesel engine exhaust contains more NOx than gasoline engines." (Quora)

As we've seen with the BP spill and tobacco settlements, the VW money going to the state and feds will be put toward other "needs", like that Alabama governor's mansion on the beach or for a new football stadium.

In CA it will likely go to the Pension funds that are in critical condition. That is where the new 3% income tax all goes. Or maybe the lo speed rail to NoWhere.

ruking1

If VW wants to cause more roil again, I'm certainly up for it !

stever

Some interesting details/background on the cheat have emerged. Seems like Audi engineers were initially trying to quiet the diesel clatter when the cars were first started.

"While scrutiny has focused on the Volkswagen brand, the use of defeat devices was pioneered by Audi, according to the complaint. Engineers at Audi developed a way to eliminate the clattering sound that diesel engines tend to make after starting. But the solution increased pollution to impermissible levels." (NY Times)

stever

Kill your TV.

And "political" references.

ruking1

That is hard to do when it seems to be the only thing on. So for another example, any time Obama speaks, the stations gets commandeered.

Indeed a lot of CARB actions are ... POLITICAL. Business can't breathe without having to cough for politics!

VW A stock had a 6% upside roil! Now stuff like THAT beats politics!

stever

Yeah, but we don't need to beat that horse in here.

And it's been blissfully peaceful at my house all week and will be the same next week. No racket (even the diesel CAT nearby has moved on )

ruking1

Hey guy, weekly garbage day is no less quiet, ever since the garbage & recycling trucks switched to natural gas!

Indeed, the diesel garbage trucks in South Lake Tahoe do not make nearly the noise! ?

Actually it's a very slow diesel news day. Not too many NON TDI owners really care, but for example, owners like Gagrice & I stand to get back = to, to more money than paid for VW TDI ownership. While we all love the MB GLK 250 BT, it will be nowhere near the VW DEALS (% wise), before, during & after the payouts!!!

breld

All this actually makes me more interested in one of the 3.0 TDIs, like a Q7 or Touareg. Seems to me values on the used market have hardly been affected on these models, or am I wrong? Perhaps there's still strong demand for them in spite of the "scandal", and with no new or CPO examples available for sale, the low supply helps maintain pricing.

ruking1

No, you are not wrong! Essentially that is a HUGE (buy back) problem For Porsche, Audi and VW!

My (commercial) pilot friend drove the 2012 VW Touareg TDI! He was able to have it cooking along with none of the engine whine & rpm from your typical 406 # ft of torque gasser monster. Now granted it didn't have anything near the thrust of the F15, F16, or Boeing 767....(that he was/is used to....) When you have a good to great driver, rear seats on the 12 VW Touareg TDI are THE bomb!

breld

I browse the ads for used Touareg TDIs frequently, as well as Q7 TDIs, and not only are they holding value well, they seem to sell fairly quickly too.

Honestly, I like those vehicles in any case, but I'm even more intrigued right now given the pending settlement that must be in the works.

gagrice

breld said:

I browse the ads for used Touareg TDIs frequently, as well as Q7 TDIs, and not only are they holding value well, they seem to sell fairly quickly too.

Honestly, I like those vehicles in any case, but I'm even more intrigued right now given the pending settlement that must be in the works.

You have an X5 diesel? We could use some personal experience from you on the vehicle. I test drove one around 2010 and it was a rocket compared to the Sequoia I was driving.

breld

We bought the X5 recently, just a few months ago, and love it. We could've gone either way, gas or diesel, but I was certainly intrigued with the diesel's gas mileage. So as luck would have it, the example we found that hit the buttons as far as color, equipment, condition and mileage was a diesel.

After about 7k miles, I've come to really appreciate the vehicle's character - from the sound of the engine, to the torque and the overall range of a full tank. The 6-speed auto seems a bit antiquated and has a little hesitation at launch, but it's something I've gotten used to (and I presume solved by the 8-speed on the current model). Something else I've gotten used to is its unusually (by today's standards) heavy steering. Other than perhaps maneuvering in tight spots, I like it.

My initial intrigue for the diesel has developed into a true appreciation for the genre. Just a couple weeks ago I added a 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI to the fleet (chronicled elsewhere here on the forums). The potential to enjoy the vehicle and take advantage of VW's settlement offer in the end was the impetus, but I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't really enjoy driving the car to begin with.

Similarly, as I mentioned above, I'd consider a Touareg if I could find a good buy on one to replace the X5.

ruking1

Welcome to the forum! Way cool! One neat factor is that the TDI can be as seamless (as a gasser) or as technical as one may wish to make it .

breld

This is totally silly, but am I the only one who feels a little smug as I drive up to the gas station seeking out the diesel pump?

When we were first got the X5, my wife was about to fill the tank up when the attendant ran out to let her know that she was about to pump diesel into her SUV. She satisfyingly informed her that she knew what she was doing.

ruking1

Well no, & no, for one real life component is you will need to fuel less. (over a like model gasser).

Hypermiling! Gerdes hits the print article. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/world/wayne-gerdes-hypermiling/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_latest+(RSS:+CNN+-+Most+Recent)

gagrice

breld said:

This is totally silly, but am I the only one who feels a little smug as I drive up to the gas station seeking out the diesel pump?

When we were first got the X5, my wife was about to fill the tank up when the attendant ran out to let her know that she was about to pump diesel into her SUV. She satisfyingly informed her that she knew what she was doing.

I hate to think of myself as Smug. However the satisfaction owning the Touareg TDI vs the Sequoia gasser is beyond anything I would have guessed. Not to mention helping the planet by using about half as much Fossil fuel. I did notice driving the X5 diesel way back, it was a bit heavy handling. And a much wider turning radius. I also test drove the Mercedes GL and ML diesels at the same time. I did not like the way their transmission would downshift when you let off the accelerator. It would slow you down noticeably. However in 2013 when we were looking again MB seemed to have fixed that with the ML and GLK diesels we test drove. We liked both. However Mercedes was not in a dealing mode when we bought the 2013 Touareg TDI. I would consider either the GLC or GLE diesels with the 2.1L diesel. That is a great engine as Ruking can testify to.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Well no, & no, for one real life component is you will need to fuel less (over a like model gasser).

Hypermiling! Gerdes hits the print article. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/world/wayne-gerdes-hypermiling/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_latest+(RSS:+CNN+-+Most+Recent)

Good article about our old nemesis. I can remember many heated debates here on hybrid vs diesel. It was good to see him realize the advantages of diesel and set some impressive records. Wayne has set the bar very high with his HYPERMILING techniques.

fintail

I wonder how much fuel is used by those trying to get around inconsiderate hypermilers, probably cancels out those dorks. Reminds me of how many Prius I must cancel out every time I drive the fintail

ruking1

For sure that is a thought provoking question that might elude more precise answers. For whatever reasons, what comes to mind are the Wall Street Journal articles estimating the economic HIT due to congestion in commute traffic. It routinely posts BILLIONS of $$$'s in hardware costs & loss productivity. This is not even to document maintenance and deferred maintenance that has to be done . So to me , being able to conduct business in the car is becoming almost essential. Once upon a time, conducting business in the car was a pipe dream .

gagrice

fintail said:

I wonder how much fuel is used by those trying to get around inconsiderate hypermilers, probably cancels out those dorks. Reminds me of how many Prius I must cancel out every time I drive the fintail

It is mostly big semis that block our Interstate drives. One going 45 MPH is passing another going 40 MPH blocking both uphill lanes. The beauty of owning a diesel is being able to cruise above the speed limit all day and still get great mileage. I gave hypermiling the old college try on one trip back from Phoenix. Cruising at a sleep inducing 65 MPH, and did not improve my mileage more than a mile per gallon. My worst mileage on the highway was 10 MPG over the best I ever got in my gas power Sequoia.

andres3

stever said:

I know you guys love your cars and it's not your fault and all, but it does seem kind of odd to let owners continue to drive their gross polluters.

The cars pass all smog tests in every State. When they revise the tests to not be a fraud to generate money, then perhaps failed tests will lead to owners not driving gross polluters. Chicken and the egg scenario.

stever

I think it's more accurate to say that they cheat the smog tests. Fixing them to pass without the cheat may not be doable.

ruking1

For CARB, that is completely inaccurate!

andres3

stever said:

I think it's more accurate to say that they cheat the smog tests. Fixing them to pass without the cheat may not be doable.

Fair enough, but they must still revise the test to catch who is still cheating and who has received the "fix."

stever

@ruking1, how much do you want to spent on every TDI to get them to pass without the cheat device?

If it was an easy fix, why hasn't VW announced a fix?