I'm with you. I have experienced this behavior time and again. I, however, have no qualms about getting up and walking. Took me a while to learn to play the game.
I happen to have nice credit and will let them know right off I'm not there to waste time. That said most try to stretch out an extra buck anyway. Last time was maybe two years ago when buying a car for my daughter. I tried to give this salesman that I dealt with before my business but he wouldn't budge on an unrealistic price. He was stunned when I bought elsewhere and said I should have called. No. That's his job. He knew there was a $1,700 price difference on a similar car.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"...it was probably the SM that was rejecting your 18% off offer..."
Possible, but I don't think so. This salesman stated several times that he had been with this dealership for over 35 years. Usually guys with that much seniority make their own deals.
When I picked up the car he couldn't resist telling me that he wasn't going to give me the car for the price I paid so according to him the SM overruled him. Good thing too as I wasn't bluffing. I would have walked at his price.
As it is I've put 85K miles on it in the last 7 years without too many repairs.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
i came across a site that had said if a dealer charges you dealer prep fees
You may not have the terms quite right. Dealer Prep, Doc Fees, and Destination Charges might all be what you mean. Destination fees are about the only one that you are stuck with. Some dealers won't get rid of doc fees so, as boomcheck said, you need to take that into account (some buyers make the salesperson take that amount off the selling price so that they aren't really paying it) and deal with an OTD price.
Absolutely correct. Add up the numbers and figure a realistic OTD price. Haggle from that. Don't worry if the waived a fee or just reduced the price. As long as the final number is right it doesn't matter.
BTW - apologies to the good guy sales people in here but there are more of those old fashioned bozos out there that you might think. Not like the old ninety percent of the politicians give the rest a bad name scenario but not like you have to look hard to find them either. I find it varies by dealer and if I want to avoid them I'll have to stop buying Hondas or learn to drive 35 miles to buy....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
You're right, I should learn from that experience. Problem is, I never seen an honest dealership. I mean I went to two dealers before and they always start by giving a doubled price (i.e. in a toyota dealership I got a monthly payment for Camry that started with $350 and $4500 down, and later I made it $150 with the same down payment after negotiations). I have never experienced a dealership that doesn't start by putting really high unreasonable price and when I negotiate they start to hide for half an hour in their manager room then come back with the same price minus 10 dollars. I don't know what to do with those dealers, they waste too much time until u get the good price. This is why I didn't leave that dealer, because when I got the price I wanted (when they gave me "if applicant has 700+ score" offer ), I waited. Then later they changed to the cheaper trim, I said ok I don't want to repeat all those negotiations again with another one.
BTW, I see that each "brb" of a salesperson is equal 30 minutes. But I'm really surprised that some people find it hard to believe that I spent 5 hours in a dealership ? I mean when you negotiate how much time do you spend until you get your price ?
Do you realize what they did ? I gave them an offer as soon as I entered, I even spoke with them over the internet before I came in. The freakin guy said come to our showroom we have what you want!!!! The minute I came in the guy started playing game
And you still were there 5 hours after that? I agree, you're a grinder.
I'm not excusing the dealer. He didn't act in good faith, but it takes two to tango. And oh boy did you tango!
Lets not confuse honesty with capitalism. Do not fault a dealer for wanting to maximize profits.
I hear what you are saying on your transaction, but it appears you live in an area with multiple dealerships. Don't look at them as the evil empire, make it a game, make it fun. Not saying you should play one off the other for the last nickel. But use the internet - find the guy who will give you the best price and dont spend all day trying to make dealer B give you the deal that dealer A already offered??
I dunno. If they start at $350 a month and settle at $150 a month with the same down payment it strikes me that somewhere we were crossing a line that goes beyond capitalism.....
But that's me...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
thanks for your replies this is what he said to me in my email.... "It is nothing more than additional profit to absorb overhead i.e.: accounting personnel, detail, fuel costs, etc I typically take it into account when pricing vehicles for internet customers." so i was just making sure what he was saying was correct and if i had to pay that. he then got made at me it seems and said i shouldnt worry bout 700 bucks when your trying to buy at 40000k car. thats rude!
That's hilarious. Tell him he shouldn't worry about $700 if he is selling a $40,000 car..... I suspect he will change his tune.
Seriously, it really doesn't matter what column the dealer wants to put his money in. Figure out if the price is good and proceed accordingly. The bottom line is all that matters to you.
And you still were there 5 hours after that? I agree, you're a grinder.
I'm not excusing the dealer. He didn't act in good faith, but it takes two to tango. And oh boy did you tango!
I have to agree here also. Why were you even at this dealer if you had a lower offer from another? Even if he said, "We''ll match any offer" why reward laziness? You SHOULD have gone to the dealer that gave you the lower offer in the first place. The only reason to go elsewhere is to try and grind out some more discount, hence a grinder.
Often the dealer has no idea what kind of reconditioning the cars will need.
During an appraisal, nobody is going to check brake pads or notice oil leaks etc.
Would you rather pay "book" value for an average car that will soon need repairs done or would you rather pay a bit more for a car that the store just spent 1500.00 on to bring it up to top condition?
BTW, we routinely pay over "book" for cars at auction and cars that are being traded in. Why? Because they are well worth the extra money!
"...Would you rather pay "book" value for an average car that will soon need repairs done or would you rather pay a bit more for a car that the store just spent 1500.00 on..."
Of course a full reconditioning would increase the value but how do you know if the dealer did this or just dropped it on the lot fresh from the auction?
Several cars I have purchased had obvious things that needed to be fixed. I had the foresight to have the cars checked out first so I made the necessary repairs a condition of buying. I've also tried asking "What repairs have you made?" and gotten brushed off with statements such as "If they saw anything that needed fixing they would do it". At one store they wouldn't even tell me if they had changed the oil before putting it on the lot.
How would you suggest a buyer go about getting this information?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Guys, if you have a car that takes to the dealership and you can go everywhere. That's you, but you should be smart enough to realize that when someone stays 5 hours in a dealership then he might have a reason. And when someone goes to get an offer from a dealer while having a good offers from different dealers, you should really read try to understand why did I do that ? Instead of saying you're grinder, use your brains and ask why did you wait 5 hours ? First, I don't have a car that takes me everywhere when I need, one dealer is in New Jersey, and others are in New York. I can only go in Saturday because I work 8 hours a day and commute two hours just to get to my work. And I went to that specific dealer because I spoke to him over the internet and he said he can get the deal with limited credit history. I didn't want to bring co-applicant in the first place.
So guys, it's common sense that I go to the dealer that has a good offer already IF they accept me right away without requiring good credit co-applicant. It's a common sense to leave the dealer early IF I have a way to go to a different dealer in the SAME and ONLY day I have in week. So instead of trying to be smart, BE smart and ASK what kept me from leaving the dealer there.
Would you rather pay "book" value for an average car that will soon need repairs done or would you rather pay a bit more for a car that the store just spent 1500.00 on to bring it up to top condition?
hmmm... pay $100 per hour for labor and 40% mark-up for parts, at a dealership, to bring it up to "top condition" for a total of $1,500. Or, do it yourself and spend $350. Or, take it to Mieneke, Midas, or an independent and spend $785. You make it sound like your getting something for free in your equation. :shades:
How would you suggest a buyer go about getting this information?
You know how to put an opponent in a figure four leg lock, or an arm bar? :sick:
I'd think that anything other than a straight answer, on what was repaired, would lead one to believe jack wasn't done. Tell me there was a 154 point inspection on the car, and I want to see a check list on everything... indicating good, fair, poor condition, and repairs made or suggested.
I have NEVER EVER had a deal that took 5 hours. First of all, you should have filled out an application prior to going to the dealer and gotten pre-approved. Second, ALWAYS have a way to leave the dealership if things don't work out. Get a friend to go with you so you have a ride. Referrals are the best way to buy a car. Have someone refer you to a dealer and salesperson that can help you.
Excellent reply, Maennj. You gave your reasons, which were sound, without falling into the trap of responding to the second-guessing and name calling from some of the "Sales Professionals" that hang out on this board.
It always amazes me that the Hosts who monitor these boards allow these guys to verbally abuse and drive away the newbies who just came here for a little advice and support. YOU HEAR THAT HOSTS? How about enforcing a little courtesy around here? :lemon:
First of all, you should have filled out an application prior to going to the dealer and gotten pre-approved.
A word to the masses. Never ever fill out an online credit application on dealer sites. Every dealer credit application page that I have seen is not SSL protected. That means that your personal information is not encrypted and is transmitted over the Internet in clear text where anybody can intercept it and use it for identity theft. Protected sites start with https:// instead of http://.
In addition, if their web sites are not secure, do you think their computers that hold your personal info are secure? Even bank servers are hacked, and they have huge IT shops that try to secure their servers.
When I repsonded to his first post, I repsonded based on what he wrote. Paragrpah by paragraph.
Most people here understood by the way he wrote out the first post that he shopped a bunch of dealers, and instead of going to the lowest price dealer or where he received good service he went to yet another one to beat the lowest price. Usually these dealers will say anything like I'll get you approved, I'll beat all the prices, we have every color here, to get the people in and we end up with a situation that maenjj had.
At Honda I was the most nicest and easy going salesperson ever, but my customers chose to walk an deal with high pressure prick salespeople because they saved $100. Even when I followed up they told me sorry but my service was the best but someone else offered them better price and they ended up going there. upon arrival they had a crappy experience but bought anyways since they were there already. If price is your only goal, then that's what's going to happen. Friendly service will go out the window so don't expect it from those types of dealers.
Back to the analysis..... When they were switching him back and forth on different units he should have gotten up and walked if it was not a car he wanted. Plus he needed a cojo because of his limited credit who wasn't there with him.
These things make everything more complicated.
He finally asked what he should have done, or is there a way to complain about the dealership?
Sure, how about not go there and not give them your business. Even though they treated him like crap, he still chose to give them his business. This shows the dealership that they can threat the next custome rlike crap, as long as the price is better than someone else's.
Finally according to him the only reason the deal was cancelled is because THEY voided it. That doesn't even make sense. No dealer is going to cancel a car deal unless they can't get the customer approved, or something else transpired that we haven't heard about.
There's no abuse going on here, oregonboy. There are sometimes drastic differences in viewpoints about what went on, but no one's been abusive.
However, it would be nice if we didn't use the word "grinder" to describe other members, just as it'd be nice if people would stop labeling salespeople as sleezy or greedy. Conversations would go a lot better, IMO.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
That makes more sense, but you should've still walked when they started playing games with you.
What would I have done? Tried to work with one of the dealers with the other offer. In your original post, you said you went to the "bad" dealer to see if they could beat the price of offers you already had. So it wasn't just about the bad credit.
I hear you on not having enough time, which is why it's even more important to be upfront and walk away as soon as they start the bait and switch. You want to pay X, and your credit score is XXX. Can they do the deal?
If yes, sign and you're out of there. If they can't, go to another dealer.
Simple and painless. Is it possible to get financing arranged through a credit union ahead of time? Despite what the dealer told you, you do have options. And you don't have to subject yourself to their games.
Finally, it must be said, maybe you shouldn't be buying a new car. Maybe buying a used car would be better. Or you could buy a cheaper new car, and finance less? (don't get mad I don't know the exact details of your credit/situation, so they're genearl suggestions).
The title of this forum involves asking those of us in the business questions.
I went back and re-read that exchange and I didn't see where anyone was "verbally abused" Questions were answered in a straightforward manner and nothing was sugar coated.
I stayed out of the discussion because I thought the answers given were right on target.
People who ask questions shouldn't be treated rudely but they should expect direct answers even when they don't like what they hear.
People who ask questions shouldn't be treated rudely but they should expect direct answers even when they don't like what they hear.
Absolutely true!
I just hate to see a new poster second-guessed by several regulars, and the name calling (grinder) is completely uncalled for.
I have noticed that the postings on Edmunds have declined over the last few months. I would think that the Hosts would want new posters to be treated with courtesy rather than be unduly criticized by the professionals for not knowing how the game is played.
I have noticed that the hosts give you guys, who work in the industry a lot of slack, which is fine. You have a tough job. One that I would not want to take on, especially in today's economic climate. Still, I think that you should all try your best to go easy on the newbies.
I would think that the Hosts would want new posters to be treated with courtesy rather than be unduly criticized by the professionals for not knowing how the game is played.
Your implications have already been addressed by my cohost and that should be the end of the story as far as this topic is concerned. If you have further questions or concerns about hosting policy please take it to email. We'll stick to addressing quick questions for car dealers here.
I just hate to see a new poster second-guessed by several regulars, and the name calling (grinder) is completely uncalled for.
Wait a minute now, wait a minute.
First of all, I don't know why you equate grinder with a four letter word. Car biz have words like that. Do you get offended on behalf of sea mammals when they use the phrase "clubbed like a baby seal"?
A grinder is somebody who fights for every single cent even past the point of where most (emphasis is mine) would give up. it wasn't meant as an insult.
In addition, nobody second guessed the OP. He related his story, and we told him he should've left when the dealership started playing games. It's solid advice, and it's advice that I stand by.
"...you should all try your best to go easy on the newbies..."
Have you ever gone on other car forums? The worst treatment on Edmunds is like Candyland compared to some of those other slug fests. If a new person gets upset at what is said here he/she will die from shock on some of those other sites. :surprise
At least on this site the "F" word is not used in every sentence.
when I first started coming here I got blasted a couple of time (still do) but I learned to ignore the posters who were just feeding their egos. Some of the most blunt responses contain the best advice.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I just realized that too many of posters in this topic are actually working in dealerships. So this is why they were rude. Instead of just helping me out, they choose to attack me. It's really funny though, it feels like I'm complaining to the actual dealership and those responses are just like coming from the the dealer itself. "You did this!!!".. "Oh well, and you did that!!!"
boomchek, I don't have to explain to you my reasons for not leaving. My question was what to do as a response to the dealer disrespect. The best answer I got was to send a file to BBB. I did that and I also sent to Toyota customers experience center. I didn't request for analysis, my question was simple.
You said, "Finally according to him the only reason the deal was cancelled is because THEY voided it. That doesn't even make sense. No dealer is going to cancel a car deal unless they can't get the customer approved, or something else transpired that we haven't heard about. " Obviously you didn't read my whole post or just trying to ignore parts of it. First, I said that they gave excuses to cancel the deal (go to my original post and read the excuses), the manger said "I'D RATHER NOT SELL THE CAR IF I'M GETTING LOW RATING". THIS IS A FACT, after that they just started giving stupid excuses. When you "analyze" next time, you have to "analyze" the whole post not the only parts you like. Second, I got approved and the papers were printed and signed, it's just at the last minute when they knew I wasn't totally satisfied, they refused to give me the papers and started giving excuses.
verdugo, Thanks for your reply. I have enough cash to get a new car. I'm trying to lease a car and I offer $5k total due at signing to relief my monthly payments. However, I'm just shocked how when I offer $5k out of pocket, they still ask for $250 monthly for a car like corolla. My brother paid a total of $4250 at signing and now he's paying $110 monthly for a Honda civic for the same term. How can a cheaper car with high residual value like Corrola become hugely more expensive. Now please someone tell me who is the grinder. I'm new here, and my SSN is only 3 months old. I literally can't do anything in this country but to wait 2 years to establish my credit and live like everyone else.
isellhondas, "Do you really think the tern "grinder" is that offensive?
People who go to extremes in their attempt to squeeze the last drop of profit out of a deal never seem to be embarassed by their tactics.
I shake my head sometimes and I'm glad I don't live that way but this is how they go through life and they don't care what others think. " You just contradicted yourself, yes it's offensive and you can see why in your post.
oregonboy, thank you for support. I was really shocked when I got backfired like I'm the one who was the disrespectful and the deceiving person. I waited 5 hours and I have my reasons but I didn't ask to review ME. My question was what to do as response to this disrespectful dealer. When I found that there are new replies to my post I was excited to read them, but then I became extremely shocked when I read them. I was confused, what's wrong here?!! I mean I didn't expect too much attack on me. I think I see what is this forum really about and I realized I'm just talking to the gang I talked to in the dealership. Thanks again for standing up
Side note: I have not followed this whole thread, but you really should not put that size of a down payment down on a lease. In fact, my philosophy is never pay more than first month and tags.
You are rebuilding your credit and cash I assume is tight. If you put that 5K down and worst case scenario - you total this car in the next day or the next year. The insurance company will take care of the car, the leasing company and everyone is made whole except you. You are out 5K.
You seem like a good guy, and I agree with a previous poster. If you need to stick within a monthly budget, then work backwards to find a car that works for you.
For example. If you wanted to pay $250 per month at 60 months. Assuming a 6% interest rate. You would looking at a loan of just under $13,000. Add in your $5,000 down payment and now negotiate for a car $18,000 OTD.
You are ignoring the credit history. This changes everything. He stated that he has no credit. The banks are tightening up their stipulations and aren't interested in loaning without a high money factor or cosignor.
The rules that you are applying do not apply to him. I recently had a deal where Porsche Financial turned down an applicant who only had a student visa. He was approved everywhere else, but Porsche was not interested. Some banks are different and with limited credit history, he will either not be approved or approved with a very high rate and perhaps more down than normal.
I want to buy a 2001 to 2005 jeep grand cherokee with a V8 and A/T and "Part Time 4 wheel drive" (I want to be able to put it in and take it out of 4 wheel drive). Do they make this and what model do I look for???
I've never leased cars. But the one thing I've been hearing about on Edmund's by everybody (salespeople and customers alike) is that you should NEVER put money down on a lease. Golic gave you good advice.
So now we know a bit more about situation. It's not that you have bad credit, it's more like you are trying to build credit, right? I wish joel could chime in. He's in F&I, and his perspective would help.
Check out other forums here in Edmunds. There are better places to post. Just off the top of my head, the Grand Cherokee was redesigned in 2005. Stay away from early 2005s -- first year model bugs and all.
Here is customer’s perspective on why you were treated the way you were. Of course, my opinion is based only on your side of the story.
You are a fresh immigrant with no car buying experience in the US. People like you are often taken advantage of by unscrupulous salespeople.
You have low credit score. People with poor credit usually pay high gross (i.e. profit) because they are just happy to get approved and get a car.
You don’t have reliable transportation to shop for a car, and you were desperate to buy one right then and there. If the salesman sensed that, that is another potential for high profit.
Looks like the salesman qualified you properly and went for the kill. After five hours on a busy Saturday, his hopes were crushed when he realized that he is going to get a measly $100 mini commission, and he blew his top.
When you went to complain to the manager, he decided to cancel the deal because he knew that he is going to get low Customer Satisfaction Survey score from you and canceled the deal. This score affects dealer’s bonus from the manufacturer. The manager knew that if he goes through with this deal, he might lose more in bonuses than make on your deal.
The only thing you can do is to learn from this experience. As far as punishing the dealer; you can tell your friends not to shop there, and post your dealer review on different sites to alert other potential customers.
maenjj: You're correct you did not have to explain you reasons for not leaving. But you asked "My question was what to do as a response to the dealer disrespect."
I think most gave an answer, and it was that you should have walked when a dealer direspected you.
And this still doesn't make sense to me: it's just at the last minute when they knew I wasn't totally satisfied, they refused to give me the papers and started giving excuses.
Comments
The easiest way is to negotiate an out the door price, meaning with all taxes and fees included.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I happen to have nice credit and will let them know right off I'm not there to waste time. That said most try to stretch out an extra buck anyway. Last time was maybe two years ago when buying a car for my daughter. I tried to give this salesman that I dealt with before my business but he wouldn't budge on an unrealistic price. He was stunned when I bought elsewhere and said I should have called. No. That's his job. He knew there was a $1,700 price difference on a similar car.
A: they didn't have what you wanted
B: doubled your downpayment
That shouold have been a sign that it's not a good place to do business with. Plus after they:
C: changed the numbers on you
those should have been signs too that it's time to leave.
I don't understand people that reward bad dealerships with their business.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Possible, but I don't think so. This salesman stated several times that he had been with this dealership for over 35 years. Usually guys with that much seniority make their own deals.
When I picked up the car he couldn't resist telling me that he wasn't going to give me the car for the price I paid so according to him the SM overruled him. Good thing too as I wasn't bluffing. I would have walked at his price.
As it is I've put 85K miles on it in the last 7 years without too many repairs.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You may not have the terms quite right. Dealer Prep, Doc Fees, and Destination Charges might all be what you mean. Destination fees are about the only one that you are stuck with. Some dealers won't get rid of doc fees so, as boomcheck said, you need to take that into account (some buyers make the salesperson take that amount off the selling price so that they aren't really paying it) and deal with an OTD price.
BTW - apologies to the good guy sales people in here but there are more of those old fashioned bozos out there that you might think. Not like the old ninety percent of the politicians give the rest a bad name scenario but not like you have to look hard to find them either. I find it varies by dealer and if I want to avoid them I'll have to stop buying Hondas or learn to drive 35 miles to buy....
Problem is, I never seen an honest dealership. I mean I went to two dealers before and they always start by giving a doubled price (i.e. in a toyota dealership I got a monthly payment for Camry that started with $350 and $4500 down, and later I made it $150 with the same down payment after negotiations). I have never experienced a dealership that doesn't start by putting really high unreasonable price and when I negotiate they start to hide for half an hour in their manager room then come back with the same price minus 10 dollars. I don't know what to do with those dealers, they waste too much time until u get the good price.
This is why I didn't leave that dealer, because when I got the price I wanted (when they gave me "if applicant has 700+ score" offer ), I waited. Then later they changed to the cheaper trim, I said ok I don't want to repeat all those negotiations again with another one.
BTW, I see that each "brb" of a salesperson is equal 30 minutes. But I'm really surprised that some people find it hard to believe that I spent 5 hours in a dealership ?
I mean when you negotiate how much time do you spend until you get your price ?
The minute I came in the guy started playing game
And you still were there 5 hours after that? I agree, you're a grinder.
I'm not excusing the dealer. He didn't act in good faith, but it takes two to tango. And oh boy did you tango!
Lets not confuse honesty with capitalism. Do not fault a dealer for wanting to maximize profits.
I hear what you are saying on your transaction, but it appears you live in an area with multiple dealerships. Don't look at them as the evil empire, make it a game, make it fun. Not saying you should play one off the other for the last nickel. But use the internet - find the guy who will give you the best price and dont spend all day trying to make dealer B give you the deal that dealer A already offered??
But that's me...
Last time I bought it took 20-30 minutes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And while we're at it, let's not fault a customer for wanting to minimize expenses. :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
"It is nothing more than additional profit to absorb overhead i.e.: accounting personnel, detail, fuel costs, etc I typically take it into account when pricing vehicles for internet customers." so i was just making sure what he was saying was correct and if i had to pay that. he then got made at me it seems and said i shouldnt worry bout 700 bucks when your trying to buy at 40000k car. thats rude!
Seriously, it really doesn't matter what column the dealer wants to put his money in. Figure out if the price is good and proceed accordingly. The bottom line is all that matters to you.
I'm not excusing the dealer. He didn't act in good faith, but it takes two to tango. And oh boy did you tango!
I have to agree here also. Why were you even at this dealer if you had a lower offer from another?
Even if he said, "We''ll match any offer" why reward laziness?
You SHOULD have gone to the dealer that gave you the lower offer in the first place.
The only reason to go elsewhere is to try and grind out some more discount, hence a grinder.
Sorry, that's wrong.
During an appraisal, nobody is going to check brake pads or notice oil leaks etc.
Would you rather pay "book" value for an average car that will soon need repairs done or would you rather pay a bit more for a car that the store just spent 1500.00 on to bring it up to top condition?
BTW, we routinely pay over "book" for cars at auction and cars that are being traded in. Why? Because they are well worth the extra money!
Of course a full reconditioning would increase the value but how do you know if the dealer did this or just dropped it on the lot fresh from the auction?
Several cars I have purchased had obvious things that needed to be fixed. I had the foresight to have the cars checked out first so I made the necessary repairs a condition of buying. I've also tried asking "What repairs have you made?" and gotten brushed off with statements such as "If they saw anything that needed fixing they would do it". At one store they wouldn't even tell me if they had changed the oil before putting it on the lot.
How would you suggest a buyer go about getting this information?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
First, I don't have a car that takes me everywhere when I need, one dealer is in New Jersey, and others are in New York. I can only go in Saturday because I work 8 hours a day and commute two hours just to get to my work. And I went to that specific dealer because I spoke to him over the internet and he said he can get the deal with limited credit history. I didn't want to bring co-applicant in the first place.
So guys, it's common sense that I go to the dealer that has a good offer already IF they accept me right away without requiring good credit co-applicant. It's a common sense to leave the dealer early IF I have a way to go to a different dealer in the SAME and ONLY day I have in week. So instead of trying to be smart, BE smart and ASK what kept me from leaving the dealer there.
hmmm... pay $100 per hour for labor and 40% mark-up for parts, at a dealership, to bring it up to "top condition" for a total of $1,500. Or, do it yourself and spend $350. Or, take it to Mieneke, Midas, or an independent and spend $785. You make it sound like your getting something for free in your equation. :shades:
You know how to put an opponent in a figure four leg lock, or an arm bar? :sick:
I'd think that anything other than a straight answer, on what was repaired, would lead one to believe jack wasn't done. Tell me there was a 154 point inspection on the car, and I want to see a check list on everything... indicating good, fair, poor condition, and repairs made or suggested.
First of all, you should have filled out an application prior to going to the dealer and gotten pre-approved.
Second, ALWAYS have a way to leave the dealership if things don't work out.
Get a friend to go with you so you have a ride.
Referrals are the best way to buy a car. Have someone refer you to a dealer and salesperson that can help you.
It always amazes me that the Hosts who monitor these boards allow these guys to verbally abuse and drive away the newbies who just came here for a little advice and support. YOU HEAR THAT HOSTS? How about enforcing a little courtesy around here? :lemon:
A word to the masses. Never ever fill out an online credit application on dealer sites. Every dealer credit application page that I have seen is not SSL protected. That means that your personal information is not encrypted and is transmitted over the Internet in clear text where anybody can intercept it and use it for identity theft. Protected sites start with https:// instead of http://.
In addition, if their web sites are not secure, do you think their computers that hold your personal info are secure? Even bank servers are hacked, and they have huge IT shops that try to secure their servers.
Most people here understood by the way he wrote out the first post that he shopped a bunch of dealers, and instead of going to the lowest price dealer or where he received good service he went to yet another one to beat the lowest price. Usually these dealers will say anything like I'll get you approved, I'll beat all the prices, we have every color here, to get the people in and we end up with a situation that maenjj had.
At Honda I was the most nicest and easy going salesperson ever, but my customers chose to walk an deal with high pressure prick salespeople because they saved $100. Even when I followed up they told me sorry but my service was the best but someone else offered them better price and they ended up going there. upon arrival they had a crappy experience but bought anyways since they were there already. If price is your only goal, then that's what's going to happen. Friendly service will go out the window so don't expect it from those types of dealers.
Back to the analysis..... When they were switching him back and forth on different units he should have gotten up and walked if it was not a car he wanted. Plus he needed a cojo because of his limited credit who wasn't there with him.
These things make everything more complicated.
He finally asked what he should have done, or is there a way to complain about the dealership?
Sure, how about not go there and not give them your business. Even though they treated him like crap, he still chose to give them his business. This shows the dealership that they can threat the next custome rlike crap, as long as the price is better than someone else's.
Finally according to him the only reason the deal was cancelled is because THEY voided it. That doesn't even make sense. No dealer is going to cancel a car deal unless they can't get the customer approved, or something else transpired that we haven't heard about.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
However, it would be nice if we didn't use the word "grinder" to describe other members, just as it'd be nice if people would stop labeling salespeople as sleezy or greedy. Conversations would go a lot better, IMO.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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That makes more sense, but you should've still walked when they started playing games with you.
What would I have done? Tried to work with one of the dealers with the other offer. In your original post, you said you went to the "bad" dealer to see if they could beat the price of offers you already had. So it wasn't just about the bad credit.
I hear you on not having enough time, which is why it's even more important to be upfront and walk away as soon as they start the bait and switch. You want to pay X, and your credit score is XXX. Can they do the deal?
If yes, sign and you're out of there. If they can't, go to another dealer.
Simple and painless. Is it possible to get financing arranged through a credit union ahead of time? Despite what the dealer told you, you do have options. And you don't have to subject yourself to their games.
Finally, it must be said, maybe you shouldn't be buying a new car. Maybe buying a used car would be better. Or you could buy a cheaper new car, and finance less? (don't get mad I don't know the exact details of your credit/situation, so they're genearl suggestions).
Best of luck, and let us know how it turned out.
Very few people have the time, skills, tools or ability to work on their own cars.
The chain stores are probably the LAST place I would bring a car to. Believe me, I know from having spent most of my life in the automotive industry.
Unless you REALLY know the industry, you really shouldn't throw out numbers.
Yes, there are good independents out there who know what they are doing.
These guys are usually very close on their labor rates to what dealers charge and they too, mark up the parts they install.
I went back and re-read that exchange and I didn't see where anyone was "verbally abused" Questions were answered in a straightforward manner and nothing was sugar coated.
I stayed out of the discussion because I thought the answers given were right on target.
People who ask questions shouldn't be treated rudely but they should expect direct answers even when they don't like what they hear.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Absolutely true!
I just hate to see a new poster second-guessed by several regulars, and the name calling (grinder) is completely uncalled for.
I have noticed that the postings on Edmunds have declined over the last few months. I would think that the Hosts would want new posters to be treated with courtesy rather than be unduly criticized by the professionals for not knowing how the game is played.
I have noticed that the hosts give you guys, who work in the industry a lot of slack, which is fine. You have a tough job. One that I would not want to take on, especially in today's economic climate. Still, I think that you should all try your best to go easy on the newbies.
Perhaps, but we do encourage interaction and public postings tend to make that inevitable.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Your implications have already been addressed by my cohost and that should be the end of the story as far as this topic is concerned. If you have further questions or concerns about hosting policy please take it to email. We'll stick to addressing quick questions for car dealers here.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
+1 and I'm a customer. :P
Wait a minute now, wait a minute.
First of all, I don't know why you equate grinder with a four letter word. Car biz have words like that. Do you get offended on behalf of sea mammals when they use the phrase "clubbed like a baby seal"?
A grinder is somebody who fights for every single cent even past the point of where most (emphasis is mine) would give up. it wasn't meant as an insult.
In addition, nobody second guessed the OP. He related his story, and we told him he should've left when the dealership started playing games. It's solid advice, and it's advice that I stand by.
Angel
People who go to extremes in their attempt to squeeze the last drop of profit out of a deal never seem to be embarassed by their tactics.
I shake my head sometimes and I'm glad I don't live that way but this is how they go through life and they don't care what others think.
Have you ever gone on other car forums? The worst treatment on Edmunds is like Candyland compared to some of those other slug fests. If a new person gets upset at what is said here he/she will die from shock on some of those other sites. :surprise
At least on this site the "F" word is not used in every sentence.
when I first started coming here I got blasted a couple of time (still do) but I learned to ignore the posters who were just feeding their egos. Some of the most blunt responses contain the best advice.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
boomchek, I don't have to explain to you my reasons for not leaving. My question was what to do as a response to the dealer disrespect. The best answer I got was to send a file to BBB. I did that and I also sent to Toyota customers experience center. I didn't request for analysis, my question was simple.
You said, "Finally according to him the only reason the deal was cancelled is because THEY voided it. That doesn't even make sense. No dealer is going to cancel a car deal unless they can't get the customer approved, or something else transpired that we haven't heard about. "
Obviously you didn't read my whole post or just trying to ignore parts of it. First, I said that they gave excuses to cancel the deal (go to my original post and read the excuses), the manger said "I'D RATHER NOT SELL THE CAR IF I'M GETTING LOW RATING". THIS IS A FACT, after that they just started giving stupid excuses. When you "analyze" next time, you have to "analyze" the whole post not the only parts you like.
Second, I got approved and the papers were printed and signed, it's just at the last minute when they knew I wasn't totally satisfied, they refused to give me the papers and started giving excuses.
verdugo,
Thanks for your reply. I have enough cash to get a new car. I'm trying to lease a car and I offer $5k total due at signing to relief my monthly payments. However, I'm just shocked how when I offer $5k out of pocket, they still ask for $250 monthly for a car like corolla. My brother paid a total of $4250 at signing and now he's paying $110 monthly for a Honda civic for the same term. How can a cheaper car with high residual value like Corrola become hugely more expensive. Now please someone tell me who is the grinder.
I'm new here, and my SSN is only 3 months old. I literally can't do anything in this country but to wait 2 years to establish my credit and live like everyone else.
isellhondas,
"Do you really think the tern "grinder" is that offensive?
People who go to extremes in their attempt to squeeze the last drop of profit out of a deal never seem to be embarassed by their tactics.
I shake my head sometimes and I'm glad I don't live that way but this is how they go through life and they don't care what others think. "
You just contradicted yourself, yes it's offensive and you can see why in your post.
oregonboy, thank you for support. I was really shocked when I got backfired like I'm the one who was the disrespectful and the deceiving person. I waited 5 hours and I have my reasons but I didn't ask to review ME. My question was what to do as response to this disrespectful dealer. When I found that there are new replies to my post I was excited to read them, but then I became extremely shocked when I read them. I was confused, what's wrong here?!! I mean I didn't expect too much attack on me. I think I see what is this forum really about and I realized I'm just talking to the gang I talked to in the dealership. Thanks again for standing up
You are rebuilding your credit and cash I assume is tight. If you put that 5K down and worst case scenario - you total this car in the next day or the next year. The insurance company will take care of the car, the leasing company and everyone is made whole except you. You are out 5K.
You seem like a good guy, and I agree with a previous poster. If you need to stick within a monthly budget, then work backwards to find a car that works for you.
For example. If you wanted to pay $250 per month at 60 months. Assuming a 6% interest rate. You would looking at a loan of just under $13,000. Add in your $5,000 down payment and now negotiate for a car $18,000 OTD.
I'm totally confused as to WHY you would have stayed there if you were that unhappy. There are lots of Toyota dealers.
In my 14 years of doing this, I have NEVER spent anywhere near five hours with a customer.
I happen to have the highest customer satisfaction score in our store and I work hard to maintain this.
I would much rather not sell a car than to sell a car to an unhappy customer. I want them to leave happy otherwise it isn't worth it to me or to them.
Ther are always two sides to every story.
The rules that you are applying do not apply to him. I recently had a deal where Porsche Financial turned down an applicant who only had a student visa. He was approved everywhere else, but Porsche was not interested. Some banks are different and with limited credit history, he will either not be approved or approved with a very high rate and perhaps more down than normal.
I've never leased cars. But the one thing I've been hearing about on Edmund's by everybody (salespeople and customers alike) is that you should NEVER put money down on a lease. Golic gave you good advice.
So now we know a bit more about situation. It's not that you have bad credit, it's more like you are trying to build credit, right? I wish joel could chime in. He's in F&I, and his perspective would help.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Check out other forums here in Edmunds. There are better places to post. Just off the top of my head, the Grand Cherokee was redesigned in 2005. Stay away from early 2005s -- first year model bugs and all.
There are no part time 4 wheel drive Grands. They're all either 4x2 or full time 4x4.
http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/systems_by_vehicle/
A.
You are a fresh immigrant with no car buying experience in the US. People like you are often taken advantage of by unscrupulous salespeople.
You have low credit score. People with poor credit usually pay high gross (i.e. profit) because they are just happy to get approved and get a car.
You don’t have reliable transportation to shop for a car, and you were desperate to buy one right then and there. If the salesman sensed that, that is another potential for high profit.
Looks like the salesman qualified you properly and went for the kill. After five hours on a busy Saturday, his hopes were crushed when he realized that he is going to get a measly $100 mini commission, and he blew his top.
When you went to complain to the manager, he decided to cancel the deal because he knew that he is going to get low Customer Satisfaction Survey score from you and canceled the deal. This score affects dealer’s bonus from the manufacturer. The manager knew that if he goes through with this deal, he might lose more in bonuses than make on your deal.
The only thing you can do is to learn from this experience. As far as punishing the dealer; you can tell your friends not to shop there, and post your dealer review on different sites to alert other potential customers.
But you asked "My question was what to do as a response to the dealer disrespect."
I think most gave an answer, and it was that you should have walked when a dealer direspected you.
And this still doesn't make sense to me:
it's just at the last minute when they knew I wasn't totally satisfied, they refused to give me the papers and started giving excuses.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX