Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

bar20

Boomcheck that's exactly what I plan on doing. As far as why I want the Lincoln over a Ford F-150? It's because I don't want to drive something that every Tom,Dick,Larry,Moe & Curley drive. I need a pick-up but not as a work truck. A friend of mine said that a Lincoln Mark LT is a Ford F-150 in a Tuxedo. I understand it's not for everybody. Lincoln sold about 6000 last year, Ford sold at least 20 times that many F-150's. Why do people need a HOG F-150?
I follow the car/truck boards and get an idea what buyers are paying for their vehicles. I also know that the dealer "cost" quoted on places like Edmunds are not the true dealer cost, because if they were, the dealers would be out of business in a month. How many times have you seen ads like "At dealer invoice" or "$100.00 over dealer invoice". I worked in the wholesale business for 38 years and know what kind of margin of profit you need to stay in business. I am not out to squeeze that last nickel from a dealer, because I know he needs to make a profit on almost every sale they make. Anyway I thank you for your responses.

boomchek

Good luck bar20. I don't sell Fords so I have no clue as to their current programs.

Personally I don't question why one buys this over that, that is your decision and your business.

Like I said, don't sweat the small stuff, present an offer you can live with and hope the dealer accepts it.

Keep in mind it's year end, so they are most likely very motivated to move it.

Good luck.

gator5000e

I was set to take delivery on a new CTS today. All details had been worked out, price agreed on, etc. The dealership just needed a credit app to get the lease approved. They fax over a credit app and along with the app is a Privacy Policy form. The form basically reads that they can take my “Private Information” and disclose it to anyone, including "Marketing Service Providers", "Affiliates" and “Other Third Parties”. Private Information is defined as info we received through any apps or forms and includes name, address, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER and income.

This form is not giving me the option to opt out of this policy. It is merely an acknowledgment of what they can and might do with my information with or without my permission.

The dealer General Manager says no one has ever bitched at this before and that it has never caused a problem. I do not like the idea they may give my SS# out to anyone they want to, even though the Gen Manager says, verbally, they won’t do it.

This really bugs me but am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

obyone

One oif our local Lincoln dealers had the4 Mark LT advertised as $39,565 minus Ford employee plan ($4468) minus $6500 customer cash minus $1000 Ford financing for a total price of $27,597 before TTL.

I'm not in the car sales biz. As a consumer I have to figure Ford is subsidizing all the discounts leaving the dealer with a flat fee for moving the truck. How much? At this point I wouldn't be concerned because I would have to beleive that the $27K +TTL is a good deal no matter what the dealer makes off the deal. At this point I would be more concerned if Ford is going to be around for the 3/36 warranty period rather than the resale.

When I saw the original ad I almost called the Lincoln dealer. I remembered though that these are 4 speed auto when most manufacturers are offering 5 and 6 speed makes it seems outdated.

obyone

This really bugs me but am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

Not to say your credit is bad. But this allows them to shop for a better rate or if in the case of marginal credit gives them the flexibility to find a source of credit.

Personally, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

boomchek

Obyone is correct. This lets them shop for a good rate for you, or people who apply for financing.

I wouldn't be concerned. They're not going to go and sell your SSN to identity theives and then turn around and say that you agreed to it.

I also doubt that they will sell your info to credit card companies.

golic

trust your HR manager at your employer can do more harm with your SSN than the GM can.

The GM's verbal promise is not worth the paper its written on, BUT, trust me, they have been selling your info for the last 10 years..now they just have to tell you they are doing it via the Privacy Policy.

For me, I subscribe to a credit monitoring service. Sure I pay $12 per month, but I sleep much better at night.

gator5000e

Thanks, golic. For what it's worth, I am my HR Department and employer. LOL! You are probably right, but know that I do know about it, I don't like it. At least they should provide an opt out provision.

verdugo

I don't like it

There's a simple solution. Just pay cash for your car

tidester

But this allows them to shop for a better rate or if in the case of marginal credit gives them the flexibility to find a source of credit.

Then I am wondering why the general manager didn't just say that?

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

snakeweasel

Paying cash, thats what I am planning to do.

Maybe I will do in all in pennies.

gator5000e

My credit is excellent. A lease program was in place. I even asked them to check with the outside lease company to see if the rates fell. they said they wouldn't fall even with the Fed cut. So there was not going to be any shopping or looking for a better deal.

Here is the language of the Privacy Policy:

In accordance with federal regulations, we are giving you this notice to tall you how we may use non-public personal information ("Private information") about you. This notice applies to both current and former customers of XXXXX Dealership

Collection and Use of Public Information:

We collect Private Information about you from the following sources:

- Information we receive from you, such as information on application or other forms, which may include your name, address, social security number and income.

- Information about your transactions with us, our affiliates, or others, such as your account balance and payment history.

- Information we receive from consumer reporting agencies, such as your credit history and creditworthiness.

Disclosure of Private Information

We may disclose Private Information (described above) under the following circumstances:

1) To Marketing Service Providers

We may disclose all Private Information to companies that perform marketing services for us or to other financial institutions with which we may enter into joint marketing agreements. We may make such disclosures about you as a
consumer, customer, or former customer.

2) Among Affiliates

Some of the Private Information described above may consist of information about your history of dealing with us or our Affiliates, such as identification information, account history and balances and payment history (which we refer to
as "Transaction Information"). We may share Private Information that consists of Transaction information with our Affiliates. Our Affiliates include other automobile dealerships and financial companies. We do this to provide you with the products and services we and our Affiliates offer.

3) With Other Third Parties

In addition, we may share all Private Information about you as a consumer, customer, or former Customer with other non·affiliated third parties, as permitted by law.

Then it asks me to sign an acknowledgment of this privacy policy. If the purpose of this "policy" is to benefit the customer to try to secure better financing, then it should clearly say so and limit any disclosure to that.

But it clearly does not do that and allows the disclosure of Private Information (ie, SS#) to Marketing Service Providers, Affiliates and Other Third Parties. I don't see how disclosure to these three categories are just for the purposes of obtaining a better rate.

It's too bad, but they are more than likely going to lose a sale over this BS.

joel0622

I am suprised that there is no opt out option also. That form really has not allot to do with the financing portion. You agreed to that when you signed the credit app its self. All that form really is for is a CYA for the dealership.

I personally though would not let it effect my purchase plans.

I bet if push came to shove and you refused to sign they would still sell you the car. I have people refuse to sign arbitration agreements all the time. I don't even skip a beat, I just write refused to sign on it, make an X, draw a line and say sign there.

joel0622

Ok, I just read ours and there is no opt out option on it either

It is a Federal Form not a dealership form

In a nut shell the last paragraph on ours says that the info is need to know basis only and that it will only be released to 3rd parties as permitted by law.

I have never really read this form before. I guess if you really dig into it can sound scary.

boomchek

Every dealer's privacy policy sounds about the same. It is mostly for CYA purposes.

I'll try to explain it step by step:

We collect Private Information about you from the following sources:
- Information we receive from you, such as information on application or other forms, which may include your name, address, social security number and income.
- Information about your transactions with us, our affiliates, or others, such as your account balance and payment history.
- Information we receive from consumer reporting agencies, such as your credit history and creditworthiness.

This just tells you that the'yre going to get your credit history info from your bank or a credit bureau.

When you opened up a bank account you singed the same thing. I had customers who have a special clause put on their credit files that prohibits any info exchange between the banks/dealers/credit card companies without the customer's written permission. What that does however, is slow the approval process down to a crawl, until all parties get a written and signed consent letter from the customer. Last time we had that the approval took about 3 weeks.

We may disclose Private Information (described above) under the following circumstances:
1) To Marketing Service Providers
We may disclose all Private Information to companies that perform marketing services for us or to other financial institutions with which we may enter into joint marketing agreements. We may make such disclosures about you as a
consumer, customer, or former customer.

This means that if they hire a marketing company to print up letters and invitations to a sale, then it will be ok for them to receive your name for the purpose of printing it on an envelope. Or they might want the marketing company to do a mass email to their customers, so they'll give that company a list of customer names and email addresses for that purpose.

The financial institution part is same. They might send you offers for credit cards and what not.

2) Among Affiliates
Some of the Private Information described above may consist of information about your history of dealing with us or our Affiliates, such as identification information, account history and balances and payment history (which we refer to
as "Transaction Information"). We may share Private Information that consists of Transaction information with our Affiliates. Our Affiliates include other automobile dealerships and financial companies. We do this to provide you with the products and services we and our Affiliates offer.

This means that they can communicate with a credit bureau and banks that you used during the approval process. It also means that the banks may pre approve you for their credit card offers if you have decent credit. If this dealer is part of a dealer group, then you may get offers from their sister stores as well.

3) With Other Third Parties
In addition, we may share all Private Information about you as a consumer, customer, or former Customer with other non·affiliated third parties, as permitted by law.

That means if they have to find an approval with non affiliated financial institutions, then they may do so, without asking you again for permission. It also means they can "share" (I read sell) your info to other companies for the purpose of spam and junk mail.

The unfortunate thing is whether you like it or not, every dealer in the country has this policy or has been doing this. If you don't want to give up your credit info, then pay cash.

Will they sewll your SSN to an identity thief? I highly doubt it. Will you get offers for a GM Visa after this? Very likely.

zwartepiet

Hi. I have a question about fees to expect on an out-of-state purchase. I have never purchased a car out-of-state before but I am about to do so. First of all, there is the title transfer fee and the tag fee. Can I expect an out-of-state dealer to handle the title transfer to my state and to provide me with tags from my own state at the close of the deal? Can I expect an out-of-state dealer to handle registration of my vehicle in my home state? If the answer is "no" to both of those questions, does the dealer deserve any documentation fee at all?

joel0622

Are you financing or paying cash? It makes a difference

If you pay cash they will probably have you sign an out of state tax affidavit and let you settle up in your home state when you register it.

If you are financing they will collect the taxes for your home state and mail them to your county office. The reason being is if you finance they have to perfect (record) the lien.

Now this is the norm, I am sure there are 20 different examples where it has been done different.

zwartepiet

Thanks for your reply. I'm financing part of the deal. I'm more concerned about understanding the DMV fees that will be charged on the sales contract than I am about the taxes, but thanks for responding..

I guess to rephrase my question - From a dealer's perspective, how are the sales contract fees different for an out-of-state buyer vs. a resident buyer?

gator5000e

Thanks, boomcheck. You make perfect sense, but you interpreted everything you explained. If they are going to limit the use of the privarte information as you say, then the policy should be very specific about when and where they are going to use it. It can't take too long to write out something specific. Limit who the parties that will have access to this information. Put in an opt out clause. Put in a clause that they will ask permission from you before doing anything you mentioned and will tell you who they are selling it to. Even most banks have specific privacy polices that limit who has access. Heck, I am not even getting the lease from GMAC. It's coming from a third party bank. Let me sign or see their privacy form.

The way this form is worded, they can provide this information anytime to anyone, during or after the sale. Sorry, it may be harmless, but I am not giving someone who I do not know the ability to send my private info to whomever they want.

Again, I understand what you are saying the form means, but I say spell it out.

volvomax

They aren't different at all.

Most states require the selling dealer to at least obtain a title for an out of state buyer.
After that, the buyer takes the title to their local DMV and pays the local DMV for plates and sales tax difference, if any.

Some dealers use 3rd party title services to handle that portion for their customers, but usually costs extra.

verdugo

Maybe I will do in all in pennies.

Ohh, I'd love to see a picture of that.

boomchek

the policy should be very specific about when and where they are going to use it. It can't take too long to write out something specific

In that case they'd have to rewrite it every time they hook up with a different vendor, bank, financial institution and so on. And usually they'd have to get a lawyer to rewrite it. The policy now is fairly broad and general, but keep in mind it is protected by law, so they won't sell your name, income, and SSN to a guy in an alley for $100 cause you "gave them persmission".

Heck, I am not even getting the lease from GMAC. It's coming from a third party bank. Let me sign or see their privacy form.

That's why they have a broad privacy policy in place. Otherwise in this situation, they'd have to be writing out one that deals specifically with that 3rd party leasing company.

If you cancel the deal and go elsewhere, chances are you're going to have the same if not very similar policy in place to sign. Unfortunately there's no other way around it unless:

You pay cash.

or

You build your own motorized vehicle out of scrap parts and wood and drive it on your own property unregistered and uninsured.

Actually even if you pay cash, they probably would make you sign a privacy form because they might need to share your info with the taxman, DMV, or aninsurance company.

isellhondas

This makes no sense.

We require every person who buys a car to sign a Privacy Report. On it there is a large box that they check where they "opt out" so that even if we did give their info to a third party (we never would do this) we wouldn't be able to do this.

I wouldn't sign that either unless I could opt out.

joel0622

I thought the same thing isell till I read ours today. I know the old ones do. I never pay any attention to them because the sales person gets them signed before the paper work comes to me.

BTW, for all of you who say to just pay cash........ Cash buyers sign them to.

verdugo

BTW, for all of you who say to just pay cash........ Cash buyers sign them to.

I didn't know that. So I guess if you really don't want to sign that form, you have to buy from a private party and pay cash?

oregonboy

I have to think that in today's market, the dealer would not let a real buyer walk over the refusal to sign.

kyfdx

Aren't most of these notices, not agreements?

Isn't what you are signing just an acknowledgement that you've been provided a copy of the privacy policy?

That's their policy... Even if you refuse to sign the acknowledgement, it doesn't really change anything.

At least that's my take on it...

gator5000e

Bingo, kyfdx! That's exactly right. It's an acknowledgment, not an acceptance or agreement. If I do a deal with them, I have no choice in the matter.

madmanmoo

Don't you sign something just like this when you sign up for a new credit card?

joel0622

It is nothing more really then a car dealers form of a HIPPA. The thing you sign when you go to the Dr.

gator5000e

A HIPAA authorization is restricted on who the provider can release the information to. You are generally asked on most HIPAA forms who they are allowed to release the info to. All I am saying is be more specific and define who these parties are who may get your information and put in an opt out clause if you don't want it to happen.

gator5000e

Has anyone leased a car through US Bank? The dealership offered to arrange a lease via US Bank but some Google and other online research shows they are very difficult to deal with and are very harsh when it comes to wear & tear and other general end of lease issues. It would be appreciated if anyone has a copy of a current US Bank lease that they could post or e-mail to me.

Thanks.

volvomax

We do plenty of business w/ US Bank and they are just fine.
If you damage the car, you will have to pay for it.
If the tires are below 4/32's, you will have to get new ones.
If you have a star or large chip in the windshield, you will need a new one.
They do have a disposition fee, no it isn't negotiable.
If you are hard on cars, or are worried about wear and tear, i'm sure your dealer can sell you an excess wear and tear policy.

verdugo

It would be appreciated if anyone has a copy of a current US Bank lease that they could post or e-mail to me.

You know, for somebody who is really worried about his information being shared to 3rd parties, I found your request a bit ironic.

jmonroe

Maybe I will do in all in pennies.

Ohh, I'd love to see a picture of that.

C'mon, he's probably gonna buy a Hyundai...how many could there be? :shades:

jmonroe

snakeweasel

C'mon, he's probably gonna buy a Hyundai...how many could there be?

Have you checked out Hyundai prices lately?

In reality I am leaning towards Nissan this time around, but not sure what to get.

tallman1

how many could there be?

They wouldn't let him pay with pennies anyway. Even though it is legal tender, retailers can refuse pennies.

gator5000e

Well, I figured if someone has a copy it would be blank or any private info would be redacted or covered up with white-out. Also, the back of the lease with the terms and definitions does not have any private information. That was all I was looking for.

jmonroe

Have you checked out Hyundai prices lately?

Yes I have. Who do they think they are? :mad:

In reality I am leaning towards Nissan this time around, but not sure what to get.

Son #1 has an 03' Altima and really likes it. Although he says the leather in my 05' XG 350 is nicer and he can't believe the power of his mother's 06' Sonata LX V6, go figure. When his mother heard that comment she said that was the last time he was going to drive it! What a kill joy. All she needs is a car with 4 good tires and a windshield. I'm the one that insisted that she needed the V6. I liked the way it moved too.

jmonroe

joel0622

Retailers don't have to accept $20 bills if they don't want to. If he is man enough to carry that many and go through the hassle then fine. The PITA factor on the buyer would be much higher then ours.

snakeweasel

Yes I have. Who do they think they are?

They think they are manufacturers of some pretty good cars.

isellhondas

Many years ago when I had a peper route, I would make extra money doing monthly collections in routes other than my own. In those days nobody paid by mail and we would collect at the door.

So, I was collecting in a route that wasn't mine one day. I knocked on the door and a nasty old guy told me.." Oh, have I been waiting for YOU!"

He went back into his house and emerged with a coffee can full of pennies.

He raised the can in the air and threw them EVERYWHERE! All over his lawn, flowerbeda and the sidewalk! At the time, I think the monthly charge was 2.50 or something like that.

Then he gave me a nasty smile and said " Here is your money you SOB,,,you will find your money where I've been finding my paper every morning!"

I laughed at him and told him it wasn't my route and that he better start picking up the pennies before he tried cutting his grass!

grandtotal

I laughed at him and told him it wasn't my route and that he better start picking up the pennies before he tried cutting his grass!

Great story with a happy (as far as I'm concerned) ending.

jmonroe

At the time, I think the monthly charge was 2.50 or something like that.

I remember when a weeks worth of papers cost 45 cents when I had my first paper route.

Those paper route days do bring back memories alright, good and bad. I found out there were some people who would try to beat a 12 year old kid out of that 45 cents. My Father used to ask, "How many weeks are you going to let that happen? That's your money they're keeping, you had to pay your route man that money now your a banker for them". At first I didn't get it then I finally woke up but only after I spoke up and told them they weren't getting anymore papers from me! :mad:

Car thing: I'll bet my last cold toes they were grinders.

jmonroe

venture

In reality I am leaning towards Nissan this time around, but not sure what to get.

A friend turned in his (don't know what year) Maxima with 450,000 miles on it. :surprise: He's is in sales and drives A LOT.

His company got him a new Rogue.

snakeweasel

A friend turned in his (don't know what year) Maxima with 450,000 miles on it.

I am looking more at the Versa as it will be my car and used mostly for commuting and running errands. To replace my wifes car a Maxima would be good as hers would be used for trips, evenings out and stuff like that. But since it is her car its more her choice.

bar20

boomchek, I just wanted to let you know I negotiated $16k off the MSRP using all of Ford's rebates. This was all done over the internet and the phone. I will be picking the truck up on Jan. 2.

boomchek

Sounds like a nice deal. I am sure you'll be happy and they'll be happy to move a truck off their lot.

explorerx4

'boom,
don't know if you are a hockey fan, but i have had nhl network on tonight.
they are carrying the hnic broadcast.
at one point, there was an exchange between ron mcclean and don cherry where one one them said, 'what do you think we are? americans?'.
i loved it.

jbone108

I looking for an answer to a couple questions about leasing a car. Here are my questions.
1. If you are leasing the car for 24 months and the first payment is “waived”. How many payments will I make 23 or 24?
2. With a “sign and drive” lease. Are there any out of pocket expenses due at signing?

Thanks for your help