Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

volvomax

I doubt that it can be dumbed down enough.

Maybe the next Mondeo could be brought over here.
It would have to be designed w/ the US in mind, just like the new Focus is.

verdugo

I'm with you traindriver. I'm 35, and my brother is 34. I went with him to a Ford dealership in Norway because he's looking for a new car. I said to myself "wow, that's nice. I would get that one."

I got a loaded VW Passat in 2006, so I'm not in the market for a new car yet. But when I am, I hope Ford has something to tempt me.

Maybe Joel can pull some strings?

verdugo

Maybe the next Mondeo could be brought over here. It would have to be designed w/ the US in mind, just like the new Focus is.

I realize that I'm not the typical american car buyer, but I don't think the Mondeo would have to be redesigned. They have some pretty good diesel engines in there, plenty of leg space in both front and rear (unlike the previous Mondeo).

Oh well, best of luck to all three (two?) domestic car companies.

One thing that I hope doesn't make it over to the US is taxes. Some cars in Norway have more than 100% tax.

volvomax

I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about content.
The switchgear,seats,engines,etc.
The current Mondeo is much more upmarket than prevoius ones.
It is the content of the car that would be too costly for it's intended market here in the US.
Someone mentioned that they own a Passat,it is a good example.
The new Passat is quite a bit more expensive than the Accord/Camry.
Consequently, it sells in far fewer numbers.
A Ford family sedan needs the widest possible audience.

oldfarmer50

"...a new car called the Verve..."

I love it! Where can I send my deposit?

You've got to get a better name for it though.

markm124

I am not certain that this is the correct forum for this, but here goes... I am close to leasing a new Honda Accord and there is a $595. acquisition fee included in the deal. Is this negotiable with the dealer or is this from Honda Finance and "carved in stone"? Thanks in advance for any help.

volvomax

Acq fees are Bank Fees, not dealer fees.

isellhondas

Some things aren't negotiable and acquisition fees are one of those things. Everyone pays this.

lemmer

We've probably been over this before, but here is a new case for me.

I called about this Lexus SC400. My usual questions ferret out the truth. The "owner" is a curbstoner. After I figured out he is such, he claims to be a dealer. When asked about his car lot (as required by Alabama law) he says he is associates with a used car dealer in town and sells his cars there. Is this car on that lot? Of course not. It is such a wonderful car, he drives it himself. It is so good that he thinks he is crazy to sell it. Does he work at the lot? Apparently not as he seems to have another fulltime job. Of course he can only be reached by cell phone. He claims he personally bought the car from an elderly gent in Tampa. I assume it was from an auction. In any case, it probably has an open title.

Should I buy a car from a curbstoner if it all checks out? My first impulse is not to buy anything from somebody with so many question marks surrounding them. Also curbstoners seem to be the worse of both worlds - the detriments of buying from a private party and the detriments of buying from a dealer with none of the benefits of either.

grandtotal

I can't believe you wasted the time to type all that. No, don't buy it, that's probably asking for trouble.

volvomax

Remember that when it comes to a used car, unless it's a CPO car, you are buying the car, not the dealer or seller.
Judge the car on it's own merits.
Have it inspected by a competent Lexus mechanic or dealer.

Do you have to pay sales tax to the curbstoner?

Mr_Shiftright

My experience is that curbstoners are down fairly far on the food chain, so they don't get the tasty bites, but rather the leftovers. Having said that, that doesn't mean it would be a BAD car, but I'd bet it isn't all that sharp either.

lemmer

In Alabama you always have to pay sales tax, either when you buy it or when you register it.

oldfarmer50

"...Should I buy a car from a curbstoner..."

From what I have read on Craigslist I would walk away.

From time to time I see posts from people who have been burned by these guys warning others to avoid them. Think of it, the curbstorner is by definition being dishonest with you. He is a car dealer posing as a private party. Why would he do this if the car was a good buy.

You can say a lot of bad things about dealers but at least they have a place where you can find them if the car blows up on the way home.

ghauto

Curbstoners are scam artists. State laws prohibit private citizens from selling multiple cars or vehicles other than those titled to them. Curbstoning involves individuals who ignore these laws meant to protect consumers from unlicensed, unscrupulous sellers. Frequently, they sell vehicles reputable dealers won't touch-those with hidden problems in their pasts-problems that can affect both the safety and the value of these vehicles. http://www.carfax.com/car_buying/curbstoning.cfm

That article in from Carfax should answer your question

oldfarmer50

Saw an ad from a small used car dealer today. It stated that even though this particular vehicle had been hit in the front it was "not a 907".

What does this mean? :confuse:

lemmer

I looked at the car - wasn't that good, wasn't that bad. I couldn't get excited about it, certainly not enough to overcome the whole curbstoning thing.

biker4

I keep seeing everyone saying that a dealer will always want to sell you the car on the lot for less than one he has to order. But financially that doesn't seem to make sense - unless I'm missing something. All things being equal the car on the lot has some floor space cost in it while the ordered car has none of that and overall it should cost the dealer less. So why does the dealer want to sell the car on the lot for less than a car he can order? Or conversly, why does he charge more for an ordered car than the one on the lot? :confuse:

boomchek

Sometimes ordered cars, if from another dealer, will cost money to bring in via transport.

Also you want to move the products on the lot, because the longer they stay there, the more they'll end up raking up in intertest costs.

oldfarmer50

"...why does he charge more for an ordered car than the one on the lot..."

Boy, that is, as they say, THE question. I have asked it several times on different forums and never really got a clear answer.

It does seem on the surface that a car fresh off the truck would be cheaper than the one a dealer has been burning up his floor plan money on. But the reality is a dealer would rather do anything to avoid ordering a single car from the factory. I have had dealers go as far as telling me that my chosen car was not being made any more to avoid ordering.

I have concluded several possible explanations for this behavior. First might be an increased cost for shipping a single unit vs. 10-20 units. Perhaps shipping a single car costs as much as shipping a whole lot of them. This would make a custom order a money loser.

The other reason might be the timing of orders with the manufacturer. Perhaps when the car makers get a glut of vehicles at the port or factory they offer dealers "specials" to take a bunch off their hands. If the dealer has a car like this on his lot he may be able to sell it at a lesser cost.

In the end our friends in the business get kind of nervous when you press for more details. I'm sure this is a deep dark secret of the auto industry know only to those who can give the secret handshake.

boomchek

Another simple explanation is by the time the car arrives, which would be 2-3 months, the customer might decide to change their mind about it.

If the customer is excited right there and then chances are better that they'll take a similar car right away.

We want deals to be done right now, and today, not in days, weeks, or months, unless it's completely unavoidable.

ghauto

Lots of reasons, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.. Here are some of the main ones.
-Customer may lose interest
-Vehicles on the ground, in the dealers stock age.. aged inventory cost the dealer money. Most inventory is floor planed or on a "credit line". So it is a daily cost.
-Makes the whole process much easier and faster for every one involved
-Less opportunities for the dealer / salesperson to screw something up
-Dealer may not get to RDR vehicle or has to wait. RDR is reporting the vehicle sold for inventory purposes-Many dealers work on turn and earn with the manufacturer. The quicker they turn the vehicles the quicker they get new ones.
-dealer may only have incentives on certain vehicles in stock
-salesperson / sales manager may have a bonus that day for sold AND delivered
- there are many more factors but those are the main ones
Hope that helps

oldfarmer50

"...the customer might decide to change their mind about it..."

Once again the flakes ruin it for us straight shooters who would never back out of a deal.

What would it take to change your mind? Would you do a custom order if the buyer paid 100% up front?

boomchek

I'd never refuse to order a car for somebody. But before I do I will exhaust all options with similar units on my lot, then seeing if there's one around locally, and farther out. If we find one farther out like in different city or province, then we'll give the customer the option to buy it and pay extra for shipping, or wait for their factory unit.

If we absolutely must do a factory order, then we will.

volvomax

Here is the simple answer. Car dealers want to sell a car today. Not a month or 3 months from now.

Plus, there are risks with ordering a car. The customer might change their mind, then the dealer is stuck with an oddball car. Incentives could change, raising the price of the car.
Finally, while an ordered car doesn't hurt your floorplanning, getting rid of a stock unit is still preferable.
One less older unit to floor. Past a certain point, stock units can no longer be floored and must be paid off.

biker4

Doesn't an ordered car count as a sale at the time of the order? Again, if a dealer has x invested in a car on the lot and he's trying to sell it to me for x+y why wouldn't he take x+y (or less) for an ordered car when the ordered car will cost him less than x and make more money on it?

boomchek

Unfortunately nothing counts as a sale until it rolls over the curb with the papers signed and insurance done. You can order 100 cars with deposits, but until they're picked up by the customers, the dealer doesn't get paid on it, and neither does the salesperson.

As for the lot car, eventually he'll have to sell it. The longer it is on the lot, the more money it will cost him, hence the sonner he can sell it the better off he'll be, even though a factory order can net him a few hundred more, but the risk of that factory deal cancelling is much higher than an in stock unit that can be delivered TODAY.

oldfarmer50

"...the risk of that factory deal cancelling is much higher..."

When you first said that I was kind of skeptical because I would never behave like that. Then I remembered a guy from work who is a Mustang fan. He has several times ordered Mustangs and then later cancelled his order. What a boob.

I would hate to think that he is the norm for car buyers.

boomchek

We usually get skeptical about factory orders because many if not most tube (cancel) unless there's a clause for a non refundable deposit.

In stock units that we can roll today are of number one priority.

fezo

This actually makes sense.

When buying new I generally know just what I want but I'm perfectly fine if the dealer trades to get it or cuts a really good deal on something I wouldn't have bought myself but just happens to be on the car he has.

My 00 Accord was a dealer trade but the thing I would have been happier if I'd I'd waited a bit was the color. We wanted a stick with a sunroof which limited the colors in his trade area. Ended up with out last choice but since even that was OK we did take it. It's a dark green. All the pains of a black car without that 10 minutes of looking spectacular after a detail.....

jchevrolet

Best Explanation that I've seen that answers the question correctly!

joebert

I know it will only be a day or two until the new incentives come out, but do people foresee the incentives of the last few months getting less/same/better?

rn6700

Bought a new car a week+ ago, but now am seriously considering a different car (same model, different color) from the same dealer. Am I stuck? All of the paperwork has been done and accessories are being added within the next 2 days. Plus, I've put about 400 miles on the car. Just need some help figuring out how to proceed. Thanks.

traindriver

99.9% chance you are stuck worse than a dead hog at a 4th of July picnic. Unless you bought something VERY high in demand, when you see the numbers fly across the desk you will probably learn to love the color you have now. At any rate, it will cost you a decent pile of money. Paperwork is done and you have 400 miles on it = USED car trade in. It's not new anymore. I'm not a dealer, but I would be very shocked to learn that I am wrong. If you get away with it, either your dealer is a saint or there's something about the deal you don't understand correctly. My 2 cents... Good luck.

rn6700

Very nice analogy - thanks! It's a 2008 Acura MDX, with supposedly a very hard to find color combination, according to the sales rep. (Of course, that was probably just a sales tactic, but it's not the reason I bought it.) Even if I'm stuck with it, I'm pretty sure I can learn to love it. I appreciate the feedback.

traindriver

At least you have a very nice car -- the MDX would be one of my favorites in that category. After learning about the model: it's a 2008 SUV. They don't want it back; the 09's are piling up I'm sure. "Hard to find color combination" might be another way of saying "less desirable" or I suppose it could mean "its popular and all of this combo in the 08 model have already been sold at this point." Hard to say, I wouldn't know.

My advice remains the same: Enjoy your (current) brand new MDX.
Since you have to go back for the accessories anyway, I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask but I'm thinking "fat chance."

dtownfb

I'm not in the auto business but they released the November 2008 sales numbers today. It's bad....across the board. I think all manufacturers and more importantly the dealers, will be doing something to move cars before the end of the year. I imagine the incentives getting better. What specifically, keep your eyes and ears open.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/by-the-numbers-november-2008-brother-can-you-- spare-a-dime-ed/#comments

verdugo

But before I do I will exhaust all options with similar units on my lot, then seeing if there's one around locally, and farther out

As a customer, I agree. If I can find exactly what I want (or a car that I'm happy with) locally/nearby, I rather get that than wait 3 months to get one from the factory.

When I bought my Grand Cherokee, I had to do a factory order. I had a list of things I wanted that many cars locally had. However, all the local cars had stuff that were deal breakers (DVD player in the back, 18" wheels, etc.).

The factory order took 4 weeks. I didn't put a deposit down, I just gave the dealer my word (everything was done via email). The price was the same for a factory order than for a car in inventory.

A.

isellhondas

" Hard to find color combination" usually means it's an unpopular color that few dealers will order.

Maybe not in your case but you will definatly lose a bunch of money.

jipster

You will receive $10

Make it $20 and you got a deal.

snakeweasel

We need your opinions!

My opinion is that you are spamming the boards. Now where is my money?

bar20

Anyone here work at a Ford or Lincon Mercury store. I have a question about employee pricing. I am trying to purchase a 2008 Lincoln Mark LT. Trying to get the employee pricing was like pulling teeth. You know call your dealer for Employee pricing. No, Mr Ford you as the manufacture are advertising it, you tell me. Maybe others complained but finally the Lincon web site gave me a price of $39,812, the MSRP says $45,445. In addition there is a $6500 rebate, a $1000 rebate if I finance through Ford Credit. There is also listed as special offers a "2008 Monochrome Elite Regional Discount Package a Savings of $1000 MSRP Value". This vehicle has that package, which I take to mean that I would get an extra $1000 off.
My question: Does the L/M dealer have to cover any of this out of his own pocket? The dealer is giving me the employee price with the rebates, but when I asked what the dealer was giving me from his side I got no answer. Plus they did not include the Monochrome discount. It may be that they think I will use their price with another dealer, because I do live quite a distance from them, but they have what I want on their lot. I am going to call them in a couple of days, and will look at the truck at the end of next week. Are you guys discounting beyond the employee price and rebates? There is a local Ford dealer that is advertising that he is giving $14,000 off MSRP on his remaing 2008 F150 Super Crew Cabs. $2871.00 of which is the dealer discount. I looked up what he had and none of them had a MSRP over the Lincoln.

joel0622

"2008 Monochrome Elite Regional Discount Package a Savings of $1000 MSRP Value

If you look at the window sticker that has already been discounted I would bet.

I am not at a L/M store but a Ford store, and no we are not going beyond Family Plan Price. It is already 4% back of cost plus the rebates

bar20

I downloaded a copy of the vehicles MSRP off the Lincoln web site. It shows the package price on the MSRP as $4795.00. there is no mention of a $1000.00 discount, and I think that is the normal package price according to Edmunds.
.
What is Family Plan Price?

Let's say that Ford has already been paid for this vehicle. They are offering a rebate of $6500.00 plus a $1000.00 finance rebate and let say a $1000.00 package rebate. This is given to the customer. Does the dealer get a 100% of this amount back from Ford? The difference between MSRP and Employee Pricing is $5633.00. How much is the dealer contributing of that or are they getting 100%. Are you saying you have to contribute 4% of your cost? If I take Edmunds dealer cost of $38,554.00, 4% of that is $1542.00. If Ford is talking your price including holdback it's even less than that. $1542.00 is not much of a discount from the dealer!

boomchek

Don't worry about what the dealer is making or getting back from Ford.

If you like the car and you like the price then buy it. If the price is too high for you then present a lower offer and go from there. If they can't do it then shop at a different dealer or buy a lower model.

If the dealer can then they will do it. So give them the opportunity without getting into complex accounting formulas relating to profit margins, holdbacks, dealer-Ford corporate relations and EP contribution refunds.

Good luck with your purchase.

bar20

The point is how do I know if they can do it or not? The first poster to my question mentioned the 4%, I didn't. I said holdback, not the others. What are they? I had a dealer in the Northeast tell me with a $1000 dealer discount he was making only a $800 profit, while a dealer in Georgia was selling them listed in Auto Trader,com at $2000.00 less then his "best price". How is that, when you all pay the same price for the vehicle?
However you are correct, if the dealer can do it they will do it. I am just not going to spend 4 hours at the dealers store to find out. BTW I could afford the truck at MSRP and pay cash for it. What I don't want to do is put 1/3 down on a 48 month loan and be upside down into the 3rd year.
What's complex about fractions,decimals and percentages, I learned those in the 5th grade?

verdugo

The point is how do I know if they can do it or not?

You ask the dealer. If he says no, that's your answer

No need to make things complicated. Like boomcheck said, you have a price in mind. Offer that to the dealer.

the_big_al

I don't want to rain on anyone vehicle's parade, but why would you want a Mark LT anyway and not a decked out F-150?? I haven't done any pricing or anything, but a Mark LT is really just a badge engineered F-150. I would think that you could get a heavily optioned F-150 or platinum edition F-150 at a better deal than the Lincoln...

Maybe you can explain why you would want the Lincoln over the Ford when they are basically the same vehicle????

grandtotal

Maybe you can explain why you would want the Lincoln over the Ford when they are basically the same vehicle????

The Ford does not come with a Lincoln badge. It has to be something like that because anybody shopping that sort of vehicle doesn't really want a pickup.

boomchek

All I'm saying is keep it simple, put in an offer, or if you really want to get down to it, pay $25 for a Car Cost program where you'll see exactly what the offers are, and what the cost on the car is, including holdbacks and what not.

Many times when I have customers comparing my prices to other dealers, the difference is more in the models than in the profit margins. There might be fewer or more options on one or the other vehicle causing a price difference.

I understand you not wanting to spend 4 hours a a dealership. If there's a dealer that has the vehicle you want, put in a an offer over the phone, and tell them if they can do it you'll leave them a credit card deposit on that unit.

I'm sure that will motivate them to get working on it.