Like others suggested take care of your transmission issue first. If you don't, you'll be paying for it in $6000 of negative equity.
Then pay down your lease a bit more. Chances are you'll be in a negative equity situation throughout the term of your lease because it's a Pontiac.
When you're in a better position to get a newer car then go and lease a VW of your dreams.
As for carrying over certain amounts of negative equity into new loans, it all depends on the banks and or finanacial companies. I'm surprised that VW would even let you carry over anything.
To find out what your vehicle is worht and what it stands you, call GM customer service and ask them for the "payout" of your car. Tell them you might want to buy it out today, how much will it cost you with all fees and taxes. Then they will give you a figure. That figure is what the car stands you.
Then go on a few online guides to determine approximate value of your car. Then compare your payout vs the posted value. That's how much you're upside down on, or have equity.
Once again deal with the issues at hand and pay down your lease some more before getting into another vehicle.
Hi, I am looking at an 09 c70. Volvo shows a $6500 marketing support thru end of July. Edmund also shows a $1750 rebate. Yet dealer says no reabte, and I can find nothinmg on volvo or web showing the rebate. Where does Edmunds get this data, or where do you sugget I look for it?
Any dealer out there familiar with the current state of Silverados/Sierras? I went to a dealer from which I had purchased an 02 Sierra Denali in 02 for below invoice and they wouldn't even deal with the current one they had (09 SD).
And it's not like I don't know how to deal. I got up three times during negotiations on the last one and was walking out the door when they finally agreed to the price.
But they were like "thanks for coming in, have a nice day" when I wouldn't budge off of invoice. Really?? $1000 over invoice and their parent company is just coming out of bankruptcy? And I see that the "Supplier" pricing on the intarwebs is about $700-$1000 over invoice for the regular Sierra/Silverados with the 6.2l.
I have to assume that they believe the 6.2l equipped trucks are going to bring a premium as inventory draws down during this extended summer manufacturer layover? I know they've had the truck on their lot since early March. Maybe they just need to let that one sit around another couple of months before they see the light...
They have their reasons why they don't want to sell it and you have yours why you don't want to pay that much. Just because there's corporate restructuring going on doesn't mean they are going to be willing to lose even more money on the vehicles they sell.
Since when does the dealer lose money when selling at invoice??
If that's the case, then Edmunds has "lots of 'splaining to do". Most of the guides on here suggest that if you don't get invoice you didn't negotiate the best deal possible. Especially on domestic high-margin pick ups.
I replied in the other forum, but in case you don't check it - the $6500 is a purchase rebate, the $1750 is lease support. You wouldn't get both. According to my former collegue at an eastern PA dealership, they are going for invoice - rebate (or even a bit below).
You get the $6,500 and the $1,750 if you do a lease but not if you do a straight purchase.
I wouldn't sell a C70 for invoice minus the $6,500 because we don't have any in stock so I am not going to go get a car for that price. I can see dealers that have more then one in stock selling them for that price.
Sure you lose money selling a new car at invoice. You have to pay the salesperson, you have to prep the car, pay the other people at the dealership, pay all the other overhead. Selling a car at invoice even with giveback and/or holdback money won't cover all those expenses so the new car is sold at a loss. The plan is that used cars and service make up the difference to keep the dealership running.
The pickup is only high margin at list price. Once you are down to 1000 over invoice minus incentives then it is really low margin. The dealership is only making 1000 plus the funny money from the manufacturer but that funny money is probably just going to barely cover the floorplan expenses. The car gets cleaned for a 100-150, full tank of gas for say 75-100 bucks(big tank in a pickup), pay the salesman a flat most likely of 150, pay the lot guy, pay the Sales manager, pay the GM and on and on it goes. Then the rest of the other regular overhead a business has, keeping the lights on, insurance, lease/mortgage, building maintenance, back office payroll(although at some Florida dealerships I bet the doc fee covers all of that).
No, I was referencing the previous Sierra Denali. I can only assume that they feel the demand will pick up as supply dwindles before the pick-up plants start running again. But that assumes that the economy stops shedding jobs at some point and people gain more confidence in it.
I was really just curious to know if anyone had seen a trend with the 6.2l equipped trucks. Is it that they are garnering a premium now with low availability and lower gasoline prices? Or is it a more regional trend?
The Edmunds TMV for the truck I test drove was actually below invoice, prior to rebates. I'm just confused...
But once again Edmunds TMV is made up of averages. That means some people pay less, and some people pay more than TMV.
For example while we're waiting for more inventory to come in as factories just reopened a couple weeks ago (I sell Mopars), we're in a serious shortage of everything. The managers would not blow away anything last month because then we wouldn't have anything to sell this month, nor would we make any money last month.
So whatever we sold last month we sold with really good gross, enabling us to get through to this month.
If we would have blown everything away, nobody would make any money last month (no volume) and we'd have nothing to sell this month. It's gotta balance out somehow. If we have one truck left, and nobody else near us has that truck, then we'll sell it sooner than later, and it's going to be for good gross.
I put a deposit down on a new car and signed some papers to take delivery two days after signing. The next day after signing I received a deal from another dealer which was considerably below the 1st dealer's deal. I left a $1000.00 deposit with the 1st dealer. I called there the next day to cancel the purchase. I never took possession of the car, received any copies of any papers I signed and was told that the final papers would be signed upon the car's delivery to me.
Now they are telling me refunding the deposit is not such as easy procedure. They want me to come to the dealership and talk to the GM. Can they keep my money when I tried to cancel the purchase the next day and never took delivery of the car? I live in Maryland.
It depends entirely on the terms of the contract you signed and upon what actions the dealer took or had to take to fulfill your order. You have to read the contract you signed. Chances are they will try to meet the other dealer's offer, which might be okay if it's true; or they may try to sell you another car or some such. I think if you politely insist on your money back you might get it, and if that doesn't work, go to your local DAs office and find out what to do next. Next time, clarify what is or is not refundable.
The Edmunds TMV for the truck I test drove was actually below invoice, prior to rebates. I'm just confused...
Easy way to answer that.
Sometimes TMV is just flat out wrong.
Good example is back when the Range Rover Sport first came out. We had a multi-month waiting list for the cars from the start and it just got longer as the 2006 MY went on. We were still selling Sports for full list or within 500-1000 bucks of full list after it had been out for over a year. We were the only Land Rover dealer for for our part of the state and the closest dealer was over an hour and a half away. I don't even think they came out with money on the 2006 MYRange Rover Sport till after the 2007 MY cars were already on the ground.
TMV price on a Range Rover Sport at the time was 1000ish over invoice.
We were not selling them that cheap. The Land Rover dealer closest to us wasn't selling them that cheap either. I don't know how TMV figures its geographic boundaries when you put a Zip code in but I have to assume it was pulling sales from the Boston metro area and maybe the NYC/NJ area. Lots of dealers around there and a much more cut throat market but we were far enough away that we rarely had any competition with them. Also the way Land Rover has their Business builder money set up if you sell a car out of your market area you don't get the Business builder money. Kind of cuts down on dealers trying to steal business from from markets that don't directly border their market.
You should be able to get them to match the price. Tell them you weren't shopping them after the fact, just that you got a late email quote from another dealer that's more attractive than theirs. If they don't want to match then ask them nicely for a refund of the deposit, but I have a feeling they will try to hold on to you as a customer by trying not to give the money back.
If the papers you signed said "non refundable deposit" then you're gonna have a hard time getting it back.
Look at it this way though. You put a deposit on a vehicle you want to buy and then I (as a dealership) turn around and cancel your deal and refund your money because someone else offered me more for the same car. You wouldn't be very happy probably cause you'd have to start your shopping from the beginning. So it goes both ways. If you're civil but reasonable with them, you should have a satisfactory outcome.
Good luck and let us know.
By the way, how much cheaper was the other dealer's offer?
"...I wouldn't sell a C70 for invoice minus the $6500 because we don't have any in stock so I am not going to get a car for that price..."
Let's say you did a dealer trade, how much would that ad to the price? You have the cost of actually getting the car to your store and if the other dealer wouldn't take one of your units you would lose holdback right? Any other costs?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Short answer: Sure, they can keep your deposit.. they are keeping it right now!
Long answer: Go to the dealer... tell them you decided against buying their car and want your money back. It is an easy procedure... all they have to do is write the check. Are they legally entitled to keep it? I have no idea, but I do know that dealerships, in general, are not in the practice of keeping funds for which no transaction takes place. It just isn't worth the hassle. Don't threaten legal action, etc.... Just be firm that you want the money back.... and that you understand that they might not be able to write the check that minute, but you are more than willing to drop by the next day to pick it up.
If this was very recently, pay the $50 and stop payment on the check. If it's already been cashed, just be firm.. 99% of the time, you'll get your money without much hassle. The reason they want you to come in and "talk to the GM", is so they have another opportunity to sell you on the car. It isn't to explain why they want to keep your money.
We refund deposits. BUT....... my feelings on it are this. When I sold and took a deposit I told the buyer that deposits on a car are no different then earnest money on a house. If you put earnest money on a house and you just decide that you don't want the house be it buyers remorse, found another house, etc then what happened to your earnest money?
People backing out on a deal they put a deposit down because of a better price has always been a pet peeve of mine. If you called back a buyer and said that you changed your mind about selling it to them because you got a better offer the buyer would go nuts and call us a bunch of lying crooks.
We can and do hold onto some deposits. On ordered vehicles, we have them sign a non-refundable deposit form to let them know what they are doing. If they want to back out, then they lose their deposit. This typically falls into the $5k category.
I think that if no actual car has been ordered, and no particular work has been performed, then holding a deposit has no basis. But if a car is on its way, or all the prep work has been done for delivery of a car in inventory, it's not unreasonable to keep a deposit.
Again, the contract is the key element here. What does it say?
People backing out on a deal they put a deposit down because of a better price has always been a pet peeve of mine
I'm with Joel. In a perfect world, the OP would've contacted the original dealer and tell them about this last minute quote and given them a chance to match it, rather than put a deposit with the second dealer.
Lots of bad behavior from dealers, but customers are guilty of this too.
On order units for us it depends on if it is an "odd ball" unit or not. If it is something that will fall into our inventory with no problem then it is not a big deal. But if get something like an order for a a lariat truck with leather and carpet delete or an XLT long box v-8 manual transmission. then we ask for a non refundable deposit.
I guess the value of a handshake is an old fashined thing of the past now.
Yeah, can you imagine calling a customer and telling them.....
" Mr. Jones, we found another buyer willing to pay us more for the incoming car that you left a deposit on last week. We will be mailing you back your deposit check"
I guess it's OK to do this to a dealer but not OK the other way around.
Yeah, like I said. Shaking hands on a deal means nothing unless nobody calls and offers the product for less.
" The dealer is not out anything"
Oh really? Suppose the poor salesperson spent three hours on a busy Saturday, with the customer, finally striking a deal. Maybe sending someone on a dealer trade.
Only to have another store cut the price by a few bucks?
Yeah, I guess I am old fashioned. I suppose it's all about the almighty buck!
"...I suppose it's all about the almighty buck..."
No I think it's all about the almighty ME. People today have such a sense of entitlement that they think nothing about some poor slob trying to earn a living.
I've had people buy from me and then find a lesser quality item at another table cheaper and then have the nerve to come ask for a refund.
Retail would be perfect if it weren't for the customers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wrong. The dealer still has the car. If the dealer keeps the deposit, he has the car and the customers money.
Wrong to you too :P
Opportunity cost, he could've sold the car to somebody else already. Now he still has to pay floorpan on it, and who knows when it will get sold. As somebody mentioned, the salesperson could've sold other cars during the time he spent with the guy who backed out.
And finally, as all the salespeople here have said, unless it was a very specific car, there is almost no way that they'd keep the money.
Customers love to complain about dealer's screwing them, but then they are (almost) proud and think it's ok when they screw the dealer.
It takes two to tango, and it's much better when the dance partners trust each other and are dancing to the same beat (sorry, been watching So you think you can dance) :P
I think by me working in the car biz in sales taught me a lot on how to deal with commission sales people selling other items.
Because we recently bought a condo, we're also out shopping for furniture and electronics for the home. Most of the salespeople we ran into are on commission.
I think I am the easiest guy to close because I know what they have to go through to make a sale.
For a big screen tv I went back to the original guy that helped me, waited fro him 30 minutes (while some other customer was wasting his time with some nonsense - I was eavesdropping while waiting ) but I bought the TV from him.
When we're out shopping for furniture, same thing. Dealt with the original sales guy who helped us, told him to give us some time and space (15 minutes). We then picked out what we wanted, struck a good deal, and were done with it in about 30 minutes. I can't see myself wasting mine or someone else's time.
I never put down a deposit. After researching the price I just tell the dealer I'm on my way to close the deal that day.I give him my cell and say I'm on the way. If he can sell it before I get there, give me a call and I'll turn around. No hard feelings. I'll move on to something else. I've been buying cars since 1968 and have never lost a car or a deposit. Have I overpaid for a car? Absolutely. I try to learn something from every transaction. Three things seem to work -- knowledge, respect, and honesty. Those things didn't work in 1968 but they seem to work now.
I honestley belive that with allot of people its not actually the extra $200 they save by grinding the deal out but the satisfaction they get out of winning.
I learned a long time ago always leave room for the customer to win. If I could sell something for $20K I would always start out at $21K That give Gary the Grinder a $1000 to win with and a good story to tell his friends about how well he did at the dealership. It also leads to referal sales. If you are a car guy you definitley want to have the rep as being a guy that will work with you. if you actually do give the customer your best price out the chute you are setting yourself up for failure.
I know that about 5% of the people really do want the best no haggle price when they ask for it and will walk, but I will give up the 5% to get the the other 95%
Just an update. I took my Traverse in for the repairs today. I asked the service advisor what they think was causing the paint problems. He told me that something had been spilled on the car before I bought it. He could not tell me what. I complained that they knowingly sold me a damaged car. Things got very heated. I am really not sure where to go from here. Lawyer maybe?
I think you are escalating the issue beyond where it has to be---not that you don't have the right to satisfaction---you do---but any competent paint shop can repair the car to look like new without repainting the entire automobile. And since there is no accident on record, there will be no depreciation for repainting fenders and hood.
As for a "spill", this would show up immediately, so this would have been noticeable when you took receivership of the car. I doubt any chemical would take months to do its nasty work.
But regardless, many new cars are slightly damaged or stained in shipping and are repaired before they are sold. Perhaps yours was one of those. It is perfectly legal to do this as long as the damage is not over a certain dollar amount (varies by state).
I think you'd be wasting your money with a lawyer, IMHO. Get the car repainted in the places it's bad, get a WRITTEN warranty on the work, and enjoy your new car----is my advice to you.
I asked the service advisor what they think was causing the paint problems. He told me that something had been spilled on the car before I bought it. He could not tell me what. I complained that they knowingly sold me a damaged car. Things got very heated
You're kidding? You're story doesn't make any sense. Your service advisor freely tells you, without any arm twisting, that the car you bought from their dealership was probably damaged by a spill before you bought it... could have been kool--aid for all he knew, then doesn't understand why you got all steamed up? It's hard to believe a service advisor could be so "ignert".
I'd want a new car. Or, a new paint job and 2 grand in compensation for selling me a defective car.
"I purchased a 2009 Chevrolet Traverse in April of 2009. This weekend I noticed the paint is starting to chip off in spots and has large circular blimishes in others."
You should have looked the car over before purchase.
"What I would really like is a new car."
Your car is used..2 months used. The dealer is a for profit buisness and they certainly will lose money if they gave you a new car. The car is yours dont expect any compensation but maybe a few oil changes.
"I am really not sure where to go from here. Lawyer maybe?"
If you want to spend your money get a lawyer. Maybe you can prove a point.
Although I understand where you're coming from, keep in mind that they did not sell you a damaged car. The car was in like new condition, and you took delivery of it in like new condition. If it would be damaged then you'd see the damage and wouldn't take delivery of it, right?
The fact that a defect came up afterwards is a seperate issue that is being addressed by offering a repaint of the defective areas. Whether the defect was caused by the factory or by the dealer, the bottom line is it will be fixed.
You can get a lawyer, but I can't see a judge or jury agreeing with you that you should get a new car. So you'll spend some good coin on a lawyer and waste a lot of your own time and the result would probably be the same as to where you're now: the court will tell the dealer to repaint the defective areas.
Does the situation suck? Yeah it does? Is it fixable? Yeah it is, and that's what's going to happen. Can you live and be satisfied with the repairs, well that is entirely up to you. Other than accept their offering, you can also give them a bad survey or complain to head office but I don't think that will get you anything more than what you're getting now.
And jipster, what's $2 grand have anything to do with it? Why not $100 or why not $50000? The dealership is not going to give up any coin for a defect they're paying to fix already. No warranty work comes with monetary compensation so why should it be any different here?
In rereading mej's original post, is it possible he could have had a cheap wax job done on his car... and the knucklehead doing the detail job went a little overboard with the buffer? If not, then yes... he was sold a damaged car. Just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean it's not there.
To me the bottom line is, if the car was damaged and repaired at the dealership it should have been disclosed to any potential buyer. To not do so is fraudulent in my book, certainly unethical. You put so much as a speck of paint on an unsold car to cover up a scratch... it should be disclosed.
If we're talking about replacing a defective tire, mirror of muffler... no problem. But, to repair and repaint the hood of a brand new car excellerates that cars depreciation rate... and compensation should be provided to the buyer. 2 grand sounds about right.
Just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean it's not there.
Well, no because it's not there anymore so that dopesn't make it a damaged car anymore.
What difference does it make whether you replace at damaged muffler, mirror, or repaint damaged paint? If he insists he can ask for a replacement hood from another Traverse of the same color. It's all the same.
I still don't see how it would accelerate the depreciation. It wasn't repainted with crayola markers, it was done (or should be done) professionally.
Plus if there is a loss, it won't happen until the car is sold. For example the insurance company in BC has provisions to compensate people for dimished value due to accidents caused by someone else. After all why should you suffer a lower resale value on your car due to accident history on file when someone else hit it. However they won't compensate a person for that specific lost value until the car is sold because technically you're not suffering a loss until you actually sellt the car and accept a lower price than you would otherwise had the car been accident free. (If that all makes sense).
What difference does it make whether you replace at damaged muffler, mirror, or repaint damaged paint?
A lot in my book. If you are buying a 4 month old vehicle from someone, and they say the muffler was recently replaced due to a defect... no big deal. Now, you tell them you had to have the hood recently repainted because the paint was falling off... who the heck would want to buy a car like that? There certainly is no assurance paint won't start falling off the side panels or roof a year or two down the road. It raises a couple of big red flags for me, and I would think most other people. Therefore you'll take a lot bigger hit in depreciation. So, you really can't compare a original factory paint job to replacing a muffler or tire... or to a "professional" repaint.
Now you take the hood off another new Traverse and put it on mine, that would be a lot more acceptable than repainting.
Plus if there is a loss, it won't happen until the car is sold
You buy a 30 thousand dollar vehicle and 4 months later the paint is falling off... would you feel a loss?
But, to repair and repaint the hood of a brand new car excellerates that cars depreciation rate
I'm not sure if the OP's problem was limited to the hood or not. If it was, couldn't they just replace the hood? That way there would be no repaint, and resale value wouldn't really be affected, right? I mean, 3 years down the road nobody will notice that the hood is 2 months newer than the rest of the car.
Maybe the OP can propose this solution to the dealer? Disclaimer, I have no idea of how much it costs to repaint a hood vs. replacing it. If a new one is so much more, maybe the OP can cover the difference?
But, to repair and repaint the hood of a brand new car excellerates that cars depreciation rate
I'm not sure if the OP's problem was limited to the hood or not. If it was, couldn't they just replace the hood? That way there would be no repaint, and resale value wouldn't really be affected, right? I mean, 3 years down the road nobody will notice that the hood is 2 months newer than the rest of the car.
Maybe the OP can propose this solution to the dealer? Disclaimer, I have no idea of how much it costs to repaint a hood vs. replacing it. If a new one is so much more, maybe the OP can cover the difference?
have no idea of how much it costs to repaint a hood vs. replacing it.
Wouldn't a new hood come unpainted and have to be shot with the color of the vehicle? Kinda would put the person in the same postion. You know they aren't going to take a painted hood off an identical car and then have the potential for another ticked off customer.
Comments
Like others suggested take care of your transmission issue first. If you don't, you'll be paying for it in $6000 of negative equity.
Then pay down your lease a bit more. Chances are you'll be in a negative equity situation throughout the term of your lease because it's a Pontiac.
When you're in a better position to get a newer car then go and lease a VW of your dreams.
As for carrying over certain amounts of negative equity into new loans, it all depends on the banks and or finanacial companies. I'm surprised that VW would even let you carry over anything.
To find out what your vehicle is worht and what it stands you, call GM customer service and ask them for the "payout" of your car. Tell them you might want to buy it out today, how much will it cost you with all fees and taxes. Then they will give you a figure. That figure is what the car stands you.
Then go on a few online guides to determine approximate value of your car. Then compare your payout vs the posted value. That's how much you're upside down on, or have equity.
Once again deal with the issues at hand and pay down your lease some more before getting into another vehicle.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I am looking at an 09 c70. Volvo shows a $6500 marketing support thru end of July. Edmund also shows a $1750 rebate. Yet dealer says no reabte, and I can find nothinmg on volvo or web showing the rebate. Where does Edmunds get this data, or where do you sugget I look for it?
Thanks you, Dave
And it's not like I don't know how to deal. I got up three times during negotiations on the last one and was walking out the door when they finally agreed to the price.
But they were like "thanks for coming in, have a nice day" when I wouldn't budge off of invoice. Really?? $1000 over invoice and their parent company is just coming out of bankruptcy? And I see that the "Supplier" pricing on the intarwebs is about $700-$1000 over invoice for the regular Sierra/Silverados with the 6.2l.
I have to assume that they believe the 6.2l equipped trucks are going to bring a premium as inventory draws down during this extended summer manufacturer layover? I know they've had the truck on their lot since early March. Maybe they just need to let that one sit around another couple of months before they see the light...
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It's like there is blood in the water and shoppers think they are doing a store a favor by letting them lose money on a car!
I understand that the supply part of the curve is moving lower, but if the demand part also moves lower then the premium will not be supported.
If that's the case, then Edmunds has "lots of 'splaining to do". Most of the guides on here suggest that if you don't get invoice you didn't negotiate the best deal possible. Especially on domestic high-margin pick ups.
I don't know what their reason might be, that's something only their sales manager and/or general manager would know.
But you said they agreed to the price. So did you buy it or no?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I wouldn't sell a C70 for invoice minus the $6,500 because we don't have any in stock so I am not going to go get a car for that price. I can see dealers that have more then one in stock selling them for that price.
The pickup is only high margin at list price. Once you are down to 1000 over invoice minus incentives then it is really low margin. The dealership is only making 1000 plus the funny money from the manufacturer but that funny money is probably just going to barely cover the floorplan expenses. The car gets cleaned for a 100-150, full tank of gas for say 75-100 bucks(big tank in a pickup), pay the salesman a flat most likely of 150, pay the lot guy, pay the Sales manager, pay the GM and on and on it goes. Then the rest of the other regular overhead a business has, keeping the lights on, insurance, lease/mortgage, building maintenance, back office payroll(although at some Florida dealerships I bet the doc fee covers all of that).
I was really just curious to know if anyone had seen a trend with the 6.2l equipped trucks. Is it that they are garnering a premium now with low availability and lower gasoline prices? Or is it a more regional trend?
The Edmunds TMV for the truck I test drove was actually below invoice, prior to rebates. I'm just confused...
For example while we're waiting for more inventory to come in as factories just reopened a couple weeks ago (I sell Mopars), we're in a serious shortage of everything. The managers would not blow away anything last month because then we wouldn't have anything to sell this month, nor would we make any money last month.
So whatever we sold last month we sold with really good gross, enabling us to get through to this month.
If we would have blown everything away, nobody would make any money last month (no volume) and we'd have nothing to sell this month. It's gotta balance out somehow. If we have one truck left, and nobody else near us has that truck, then we'll sell it sooner than later, and it's going to be for good gross.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Who cares about the "minus incentives" part? I thought that was paid by the manufacturer and not the dealer.
Now they are telling me refunding the deposit is not such as easy procedure. They want me to come to the dealership and talk to the GM. Can they keep my money when I tried to cancel the purchase the next day and never took delivery of the car? I live in Maryland.
Easy way to answer that.
Sometimes TMV is just flat out wrong.
Good example is back when the Range Rover Sport first came out. We had a multi-month waiting list for the cars from the start and it just got longer as the 2006 MY went on. We were still selling Sports for full list or within 500-1000 bucks of full list after it had been out for over a year. We were the only Land Rover dealer for for our part of the state and the closest dealer was over an hour and a half away. I don't even think they came out with money on the 2006 MYRange Rover Sport till after the 2007 MY cars were already on the ground.
TMV price on a Range Rover Sport at the time was 1000ish over invoice.
We were not selling them that cheap. The Land Rover dealer closest to us wasn't selling them that cheap either. I don't know how TMV figures its geographic boundaries when you put a Zip code in but I have to assume it was pulling sales from the Boston metro area and maybe the NYC/NJ area. Lots of dealers around there and a much more cut throat market but we were far enough away that we rarely had any competition with them. Also the way Land Rover has their Business builder money set up if you sell a car out of your market area you don't get the Business builder money. Kind of cuts down on dealers trying to steal business from from markets that don't directly border their market.
If the papers you signed said "non refundable deposit" then you're gonna have a hard time getting it back.
Look at it this way though. You put a deposit on a vehicle you want to buy and then I (as a dealership) turn around and cancel your deal and refund your money because someone else offered me more for the same car. You wouldn't be very happy probably cause you'd have to start your shopping from the beginning. So it goes both ways. If you're civil but reasonable with them, you should have a satisfactory outcome.
Good luck and let us know.
By the way, how much cheaper was the other dealer's offer?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Let's say you did a dealer trade, how much would that ad to the price? You have the cost of actually getting the car to your store and if the other dealer wouldn't take one of your units you would lose holdback right? Any other costs?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Long answer: Go to the dealer... tell them you decided against buying their car and want your money back. It is an easy procedure... all they have to do is write the check. Are they legally entitled to keep it? I have no idea, but I do know that dealerships, in general, are not in the practice of keeping funds for which no transaction takes place. It just isn't worth the hassle. Don't threaten legal action, etc.... Just be firm that you want the money back.... and that you understand that they might not be able to write the check that minute, but you are more than willing to drop by the next day to pick it up.
If this was very recently, pay the $50 and stop payment on the check. If it's already been cashed, just be firm.. 99% of the time, you'll get your money without much hassle. The reason they want you to come in and "talk to the GM", is so they have another opportunity to sell you on the car. It isn't to explain why they want to keep your money.
Good luck!
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People backing out on a deal they put a deposit down because of a better price has always been a pet peeve of mine. If you called back a buyer and said that you changed your mind about selling it to them because you got a better offer the buyer would go nuts and call us a bunch of lying crooks.
When I expressed my surprise of how easy it was, the salesman told me that they are not allowed to keep deposits without delivering a vehicle.
Again, the contract is the key element here. What does it say?
I'm with Joel. In a perfect world, the OP would've contacted the original dealer and tell them about this last minute quote and given them a chance to match it, rather than put a deposit with the second dealer.
Lots of bad behavior from dealers, but customers are guilty of this too.
Yeah, can you imagine calling a customer and telling them.....
" Mr. Jones, we found another buyer willing to pay us more for the incoming car that you left a deposit on last week. We will be mailing you back your deposit check"
I guess it's OK to do this to a dealer but not OK the other way around.
I don't think it's OK in either case. The only thing is, the dealer is not out anything - the customer is out his money.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Wrong. The dealer has tied up a car that might have been otherwise sold.
Yeah, like I said. Shaking hands on a deal means nothing unless nobody calls and offers the product for less.
" The dealer is not out anything"
Oh really? Suppose the poor salesperson spent three hours on a busy Saturday, with the customer, finally striking a deal. Maybe sending someone on a dealer trade.
Only to have another store cut the price by a few bucks?
Yeah, I guess I am old fashioned. I suppose it's all about the almighty buck!
No I think it's all about the almighty ME. People today have such a sense of entitlement that they think nothing about some poor slob trying to earn a living.
I've had people buy from me and then find a lesser quality item at another table cheaper and then have the nerve to come ask for a refund.
Retail would be perfect if it weren't for the customers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wrong. The dealer still has the car. If the dealer keeps the deposit, he has the car and the customers money.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Wrong to you too :P
Opportunity cost, he could've sold the car to somebody else already. Now he still has to pay floorpan on it, and who knows when it will get sold. As somebody mentioned, the salesperson could've sold other cars during the time he spent with the guy who backed out.
And finally, as all the salespeople here have said, unless it was a very specific car, there is almost no way that they'd keep the money.
Customers love to complain about dealer's screwing them, but then they are (almost) proud and think it's ok when they screw the dealer.
It takes two to tango, and it's much better when the dance partners trust each other and are dancing to the same beat (sorry, been watching So you think you can dance) :P
Because we recently bought a condo, we're also out shopping for furniture and electronics for the home. Most of the salespeople we ran into are on commission.
I think I am the easiest guy to close because I know what they have to go through to make a sale.
For a big screen tv I went back to the original guy that helped me, waited fro him 30 minutes (while some other customer was wasting his time with some nonsense - I was eavesdropping while waiting
When we're out shopping for furniture, same thing. Dealt with the original sales guy who helped us, told him to give us some time and space (15 minutes). We then picked out what we wanted, struck a good deal, and were done with it in about 30 minutes. I can't see myself wasting mine or someone else's time.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I learned a long time ago always leave room for the customer to win. If I could sell something for $20K I would always start out at $21K That give Gary the Grinder a $1000 to win with and a good story to tell his friends about how well he did at the dealership. It also leads to referal sales. If you are a car guy you definitley want to have the rep as being a guy that will work with you. if you actually do give the customer your best price out the chute you are setting yourself up for failure.
I know that about 5% of the people really do want the best no haggle price when they ask for it and will walk, but I will give up the 5% to get the the other 95%
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
As for a "spill", this would show up immediately, so this would have been noticeable when you took receivership of the car. I doubt any chemical would take months to do its nasty work.
But regardless, many new cars are slightly damaged or stained in shipping and are repaired before they are sold. Perhaps yours was one of those. It is perfectly legal to do this as long as the damage is not over a certain dollar amount (varies by state).
I think you'd be wasting your money with a lawyer, IMHO. Get the car repainted in the places it's bad, get a WRITTEN warranty on the work, and enjoy your new car----is my advice to you.
You're kidding? You're story doesn't make any sense. Your service advisor freely tells you, without any arm twisting, that the car you bought from their dealership was probably damaged by a spill before you bought it... could have been kool--aid for all he knew, then doesn't understand why you got all steamed up? It's hard to believe a service advisor could be so "ignert".
I'd want a new car. Or, a new paint job and 2 grand in compensation for selling me a defective car.
You should have looked the car over before purchase.
"What I would really like is a new car."
Your car is used..2 months used. The dealer is a for profit buisness and they certainly will lose money if they gave you a new car. The car is yours dont expect any compensation but maybe a few oil changes.
"I am really not sure where to go from here. Lawyer maybe?"
If you want to spend your money get a lawyer. Maybe you can prove a point.
The fact that a defect came up afterwards is a seperate issue that is being addressed by offering a repaint of the defective areas. Whether the defect was caused by the factory or by the dealer, the bottom line is it will be fixed.
You can get a lawyer, but I can't see a judge or jury agreeing with you that you should get a new car. So you'll spend some good coin on a lawyer and waste a lot of your own time and the result would probably be the same as to where you're now: the court will tell the dealer to repaint the defective areas.
Does the situation suck? Yeah it does? Is it fixable? Yeah it is, and that's what's going to happen. Can you live and be satisfied with the repairs, well that is entirely up to you. Other than accept their offering, you can also give them a bad survey or complain to head office but I don't think that will get you anything more than what you're getting now.
And jipster, what's $2 grand have anything to do with it? Why not $100 or why not $50000? The dealership is not going to give up any coin for a defect they're paying to fix already. No warranty work comes with monetary compensation so why should it be any different here?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
To me the bottom line is, if the car was damaged and repaired at the dealership it should have been disclosed to any potential buyer. To not do so is fraudulent in my book, certainly unethical. You put so much as a speck of paint on an unsold car to cover up a scratch... it should be disclosed.
If we're talking about replacing a defective tire, mirror of muffler... no problem. But, to repair and repaint the hood of a brand new car excellerates that cars depreciation rate... and compensation should be provided to the buyer. 2 grand sounds about right.
Well, no because it's not there anymore so that dopesn't make it a damaged car anymore.
What difference does it make whether you replace at damaged muffler, mirror, or repaint damaged paint? If he insists he can ask for a replacement hood from another Traverse of the same color. It's all the same.
I still don't see how it would accelerate the depreciation. It wasn't repainted with crayola markers, it was done (or should be done) professionally.
Plus if there is a loss, it won't happen until the car is sold. For example the insurance company in BC has provisions to compensate people for dimished value due to accidents caused by someone else. After all why should you suffer a lower resale value on your car due to accident history on file when someone else hit it. However they won't compensate a person for that specific lost value until the car is sold because technically you're not suffering a loss until you actually sellt the car and accept a lower price than you would otherwise had the car been accident free. (If that all makes sense).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
A lot in my book. If you are buying a 4 month old vehicle from someone, and they say the muffler was recently replaced due to a defect... no big deal. Now, you tell them you had to have the hood recently repainted because the paint was falling off... who the heck would want to buy a car like that? There certainly is no assurance paint won't start falling off the side panels or roof a year or two down the road. It raises a couple of big red flags for me, and I would think most other people. Therefore you'll take a lot bigger hit in depreciation. So, you really can't compare a original factory paint job to replacing a muffler or tire... or to a "professional" repaint.
Now you take the hood off another new Traverse and put it on mine, that would be a lot more acceptable than repainting.
Plus if there is a loss, it won't happen until the car is sold
You buy a 30 thousand dollar vehicle and 4 months later the paint is falling off... would you feel a loss?
I'm not sure if the OP's problem was limited to the hood or not. If it was, couldn't they just replace the hood? That way there would be no repaint, and resale value wouldn't really be affected, right? I mean, 3 years down the road nobody will notice that the hood is 2 months newer than the rest of the car.
Maybe the OP can propose this solution to the dealer? Disclaimer, I have no idea of how much it costs to repaint a hood vs. replacing it. If a new one is so much more, maybe the OP can cover the difference?
I'm not sure if the OP's problem was limited to the hood or not. If it was, couldn't they just replace the hood? That way there would be no repaint, and resale value wouldn't really be affected, right? I mean, 3 years down the road nobody will notice that the hood is 2 months newer than the rest of the car.
Maybe the OP can propose this solution to the dealer? Disclaimer, I have no idea of how much it costs to repaint a hood vs. replacing it. If a new one is so much more, maybe the OP can cover the difference?
Wouldn't a new hood come unpainted and have to be shot with the color of the vehicle? Kinda would put the person in the same postion. You know they aren't going to take a painted hood off an identical car and then have the potential for another ticked off customer.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart