and tell me things like they didn't use the wrong type oil, the computer just printed it out that way.
That’s interesting that you mention that. After I pointed out various things that this clown was doing wrong, we now climb out of the pit.
He grabs a hose and starts to put oil into the car from the bulk container. I said, “WHOA” he says, “now what”? I said, "you’re putting in the wrong oil"!! He said, “it’s 5W-30 what’s wrong with that”? I said, it’s supposed to take 5W-20, look at the cap”. He looks at the cap and says, “OH !!” and goes off to get the one quart containers of the 5W-20. He puts in 4 more quarts and stops. I said, “it takes more than 5 quarts, keep going”. The Genesis V8 engine takes 6.8 quarts with a filter. You gotta watch these guys like a hawk. That’s why I like to do this stuff myself. It just isn’t worth the effort to take the car in for simple things.
In case anyone is wondering no, I didn’t make him drain out the one quart of 5W-30 that he first put in. I was just glad to get out of there. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was shopping for a Honda today and a dealership wanted to sell me a "new" car that already had 190 miles on it. They claim it was a trade with another dealership that was driven here from another state. Is this normal practice? Or is this car basically a demo/test drive car that has been driven hard? Advice, please!
190 miles is a little higher than usual but it's very possible that it was a dealer trade. Doesn't mean it was driven hard. Maybe it was on a few test drives too. Most new cars are anyways. I wouldn't worry about it.
"...A "one owner car" doesn't add value to a car..."
I guess you have never used Carfax. The little Carfax guy is always popping up to remind you that "1 owner used Jipmobiles are worth an average of $1500 more".
This may just because people's perception that a one owner car is better but just like a painted hood, perception is reality most of the time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I don't think that's true. Ad afer ad on television, and the newspaper, call attention to the fact that, "this car has had only one owner!". Or, maybe it's like the repainted hood thing... a one owner car brings value to the dealership trying to sell it, but doesn't add value for the consumer trading it in?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
When we price a car (trade in or lot car) we really don't care about how many owners a car has had. Again, miles, condition, market etc. determine the price. Say you were looking at 2 cars, one perfect and the other worn tires, s few scratches, and maybe a pitted windshield. The perfect car had 3 previous owners and the flawed car had 1, both priced the same, which one would you choose? How could the number of owners possibly affect the value of a car? Besides, if you look at Edmunds, NADA, Kelley, Black Book or auction reports, there is no add or deduct for previous ownership.
The perfect car had 3 previous owners and the flawed car had 1, both priced the same, which one would you choose?
It's usually the opposite of that though. Someone knows they won't be keeping a car longer than a year or two, they are less likely to keep up with proper maintenance/repairs.
It's usually the opposite of that though. Someone knows they won't be keeping a car longer than a year or two, they are less likely to keep up with proper maintenance/repairs.
That, and depending on the age, the question of WHY so many owners. A 4 year old car with 5 owners is a red flag in my book.
CARFAX doesn't set the market, O.F., buyers do, and buyers don't pay over book value because of one owner, in my experience---what if the one owner was a doofus? "One owner" is not a quantifiable thing, like mileage, damage, etc. It's mere PUFFERY and isn't worth ten cents in my book. It's a sales tool, it's not a value item IMO. It's like "runs great" or "always garaged". So what? My garage is a dark spider-infested hole.
You ever gamble shifty... maybe a little poker during boys night out? This one owner thing is like being dealt 2 aces in the hole. It doesn't mean you are going to win, but you sure have a better chance of doing so than the guy who was just dealt a 2 of hearts and a 8 of clubs (he's the guy looking to buy a 4 prior owners car).
When buying a car, a smart buyer will play the percentages. i.e not buying a car that's been painted, not buying a car that's had 4 owners in 2 years... not buying a car that has a big pair of fussy dice hanging from the mirror. Sure, any of these things on their own could be PUFFERY, but you increase your odds of buying a less troublesome car (which is real value) by steering clear of them.
4 owners in 2 years I have never seen, not a good example. One owner in 4 years vice 2 owners is more common. I have been doing this for 15 years and only 1 customer has demanded a one owner car. Does that give you an idea of the minority.
If the market cared about "one owner" it would be an add-on in all the price guides, but it's not because it's not a concrete thing. Would you rather pay more for a car from one careless, negligent owner or two conscientious ones?
I find "one owner" utterly meaningless myself. Why don't houses or used guitars sell for more with "one owner"?
It's all very romantic but it means nothing if you try to quantify it.
The car either speaks for itself or it doesn't. You are looking at the car, not some sales puffery IMO. That can lead you to a huge mistake as easily as nirvana.
I think there is a perception by the general car buying public that one owner vehicles are somewhat more desireable, even though for us in the car business it doesn't make a difference, hence no added value in price guides for this.
"...any of these things on their own could be PUFFERY, but you increase your odds of buying a less trouble some car by steering clear of them..."
Wow Jip, I agree with you again (I'm getting worried). That is exactly my point.
As for Shifty saying Carfax doesn't set the market, well, when you pull a Carfax on a one owner car they tell you that on average people pay $1500 more for a one owner vehicle because "people perceive them to have been driven and cared for more consistently". That may just be a perception they are trying to create but as I've said perception is reality.
But now I'm wondering, do people pay $1500 more for a one owner car on average? What say you sales folks?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'd like to believe you but I've never seen this operative in the ordinary used car market.
I would LOVE to here from CARFAX about where they got THAT statistic. They don't even LIST condition in their database, only miles and ownership.
Isn't a rental company "one owner"? Do rental cars sell for $1500 more?
Is a one owner car with 150,000 miles and shabby worth $1500 more than a two owner car that's pristine with 75,000 miles?
If CARFAX is saying that given two cars side by side, identical in EVERY respect---that a man off the street will gladly pay $1500 more because I tell him "the one on the left is a one owner car"-----pardon me while I laugh up my sleeve. :P
In other words, "one owner" has to be *attached* to something substantial, like very clean, like very low miles, like passing a mechanical inspection. And that of course, makes it impossible to weigh the sole effect of "one owner".
It's like saying I'm thin, rich, blonde, well-educated and happy and the conclusion therefore is that "happy people get more dates" :P
For me I'd rather have a car that's just overall well maintained with maintenance history.
Sure a one owner car with proper credentials (maint records, good condition and upkeep) will always command more, but like Shifty said, it's gotta be attached with some solid evidence of good upkeep.
I've seen one owner 3 year old cars come in on trade that looked dirtier and more banged up than a 14 year old multiple owner Civic I just picked up for my sister.
One owner" is not a quantifiable thing, like mileage, damage, etc. It's mere PUFFERY and isn't worth ten cents in my book. It's a sales tool, it's not a value item IMO. It's like "runs great" or "always garaged".
I would much rather buy a car thats been garaged (spiders and all) over one that has sat out in the elements all its life. Generally, the paint finish is much nicer. That's worth something.....
True, true, but you are judging a quantifiable thing, the paint. You are not judging my ownership history..
If it was in my garage, and had spider footprints etched into it, you wouldn't care if I were the original owner or not. You'd care about the paint, right?
I agree with boomcheck. I live in Sacramento and I bought a dealer trade car from Walnut Creek. I got the car with 160-ish miles. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
Check the window sticker. That will tell you to which dealership it was shipped. If it says it's the dealership where you bought it or one that is pretty close, I'd consider walking away -- not because there's anything wrong with the car, but b/c I'd get a bad vibe/juju from that dealership.
We ask if the customer is an original owner to get a better history of the vehicle.
For example, someone might say yes, they are the first owner. This way we can go over all maintnenace that has been done since the owenr would remember it or have receipts for it.
If this owner is not the original owner, we'll ask how long they had it for. Then we'll ask where they bought it. Based on the info (where they bought it) we'll know right away what kind of life the car had. For example if it's from a Repo type lot, then chances are the vehicle had very little maintenance done to it. Because people who have their cars repoed usually won't spend money on maintenance, if they can't even afford the payments. So it might mean the car was probably poorly maintained.
Also there are some used car lots that typically sell cars with big accident histories or rebuilts, so if the car came from there, then we'll know that it's likely that it was a rebuilt. We will do an accident history search, but this gives us heads up.
So we ask that question more to find out the car's background rather than to pay extra because it was a "one owner"
What's the Car Fox? That isn't one of those naughty sites is it? tisc tisc
I'm not sure, but I think kristie was referring to me. :surprise:
Sorry kirstie... the Jip be married. But, I'll put this one away in my files... just in case.
Or, kristie could be referring to the Carfax commercial on t.v. This husband and wife are in a dealership sitting in front of a nervous salesman, asking him to see a carfax report. The salesman obviously knows there is something wrong with the car (repainted hood, or third owner in two years perhaps), so he plays dumb and pulls out a stuffed animal of a fox, saying,"yeah... car fox... got it right here!" :P
Or, kristie could be referring to the Carfax commercial on t.v.
Bingo! That ad makes me laugh. "No, I said CarFAX." "Car Fox... it's the same thing."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Nope, but it will charge most Hyundai smart keys unless there is too much wax on the vehicle.
I heard that. :P
Since we're now talking about another subject of which I'm well versed, I found a great wax a few weeks ago. It was developed as a high voltage electrical insulator wax so dirt would not stick to the insulator and cause flash-over to adjacent insulators. This stuff is easy on/easy off and the water beads are the smallest I've ever seen. Nice stuff, I'm glad I found it.
I'll bet you never expected this response.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I wouldn't worry about it. I bought my Impala new with almost 300 miles on it. It was an '04 leftover that I bought in October of '04. It had a build date of April of '04. It has done just fine since then.
I bought a new car July 22 (yes I got the clunker discount) and I just discovered today July 24 that it was manufactured 7-18-08. They didn"t have it in stock so they had to drive it in from 130 mi. away. Mabe the original lot wanted to palm it off on somebody else for some unknown reason. Is this even good for a car to sit for a year? What do you think. Thanks Linda
Your car build date was 6mo and mine was a yr. before the purchase and it sat through a cold Ohio. winter.Also they actually drove it 130 mi. not 13 (typo).
I personally would not worry about it much. I just purchased a 09 Murano on 7/8/09 that was manufactured in 5/08. Had the options and color we wanted. Also bought a Ram MegaCab on 2/4/09 which had a build date of 4/07 - yes it was new. It was on a small rural dealer's lot and was the only 1500 MegaCab within 300 miles with the options I wanted, so I went for it. Hopefully they will be as reliable in the long run as getting one right off the truck.
Okay folks - So I've decided that when my lease ends, I would like to get into a 2010 Toyota Sienna XE. I have 2 lease payments left on my current lease, I am currently over mileage..I'm trying to figure out what my next best move is. Can I get out of the van early, do I make the 2 final payments and keep adding to the mileage and fee i'll be charged, what opinions can you all offer?
I had contacted a few local Honda dealers wanting to know if there were any loyalship programs, where i could hand this one in now and get into something new and i've been given the cold shoulder, so I guess those don't exist or they just didn't want to be bothered. I'm looking to purchase the next van, since I learned leasing isn't for me. Any tips, suggestions..I'd greatly appreciate it, I find car purchasing so intimidating and scary!! THanks!
A bunch of questions for you: Do you mean Sienna XLE or Sienna CE? XE is a mistype, I just can't tell if you left a character out or mistyped a character. Approximately how many miles will you drive between now and when your current lease ends? What do you have to pay per excess mile? What is your monthly payment? What will it cost to pay out your lease today? You'll need to ask Honda this. What is the residual value of your Odyssey?
Sienna is a good choice, no matter which trim you have selected, but you were considering a smaller vehicle. Do you really need a minivan or are you still 'keeping up with the Joneses'?
Answers to your questions Do you mean Sienna XLE or Sienna CE? I mistyped, I actually meant LE. Approximately how many miles will you drive between now and when your current lease ends? I'm at 46000 right now, I estimate I'll be closer to 49,000-50,000 by the time lease is over. I'm trying to limit driving to commute and short trips around town, trying not to travel too far. What do you have to pay per excess mile? .15 (so say I go 5000 over, that'll be $750..YIKES). What is your monthly payment? 538 What will it cost to pay out your lease today? From the Honda Financial Website, my payoff today would be $16,378.06. Another, YIKES. What is the residual value of your Odyssey? 15484
This van I have paid far more than it's worth, when I crunch numbers and see what I have paid I want to just cry, I feel so foolish that years ago I threw so much money away that could have been put into savings, etc. Seeing and driving this van give me daily reminders of how foolish I was. So that's why now I keep asking all of these questions, I want to make a purchase that won't leave me feeling sick. The thought of paying this van off, doesn't sit well with me because it'll be my constant reminder of where all my money has gone.
I was considering a smaller vehicle, I went and took my kids and sat in a few and they were just too close to one another and I felt so cramped, now that I'm used to the extra space, i'd miss going without, so i'm pretty settled on sticking with a van. Mind might still change, we'll go a few more times to check vehicles out. We did to a degree like the Mazda5, which gives us the space, but I don't like that it doesn't have stability control or traction control, those seem like pretty standard features these days. I'm liking the Sienna over the Odyssey.
C'mon Joel, give it to her straight. Anyone one that been on this forum for the last few days knows the only reason that cars sit on lot for long periods is because the dealer is waiting for all of the body pieces to arrive so they can put the car back to the way it was built before it fell off the truck.
It takes lots of time to do that stuff. Then they have to make sure the paint job will be just right so a discerning buyer will never know. To get that kind of a paint job probably accounts for most of the time the car was at the dealer before they they felt it was ready for sale. You can't rush a perfect undetectable re-paint, you know.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Comments
That was exactly my point
That’s interesting that you mention that. After I pointed out various things that this clown was doing wrong, we now climb out of the pit.
He grabs a hose and starts to put oil into the car from the bulk container. I said, “WHOA” he says, “now what”? I said, "you’re putting in the wrong oil"!! He said, “it’s 5W-30 what’s wrong with that”? I said, it’s supposed to take 5W-20, look at the cap”. He looks at the cap and says, “OH !!” and goes off to get the one quart containers of the 5W-20. He puts in 4 more quarts and stops. I said, “it takes more than 5 quarts, keep going”. The Genesis V8 engine takes 6.8 quarts with a filter. You gotta watch these guys like a hawk. That’s why I like to do this stuff myself. It just isn’t worth the effort to take the car in for simple things.
In case anyone is wondering no, I didn’t make him drain out the one quart of 5W-30 that he first put in. I was just glad to get out of there. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was shopping for a Honda today and a dealership wanted to sell me a "new" car that already had 190 miles on it. They claim it was a trade with another dealership that was driven here from another state. Is this normal practice? Or is this car basically a demo/test drive car that has been driven hard? Advice, please!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I guess you have never used Carfax. The little Carfax guy is always popping up to remind you that "1 owner used Jipmobiles are worth an average of $1500 more".
This may just because people's perception that a one owner car is better but just like a painted hood, perception is reality most of the time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well me and the little Carfax guy care. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I don't think that's true. Ad afer ad on television, and the newspaper, call attention to the fact that, "this car has had only one owner!". Or, maybe it's like the repainted hood thing... a one owner car brings value to the dealership trying to sell it, but doesn't add value for the consumer trading it in?
.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
It's usually the opposite of that though. Someone knows they won't be keeping a car longer than a year or two, they are less likely to keep up with proper maintenance/repairs.
That, and depending on the age, the question of WHY so many owners. A 4 year old car with 5 owners is a red flag in my book.
When buying a car, a smart buyer will play the percentages. i.e not buying a car that's been painted, not buying a car that's had 4 owners in 2 years... not buying a car that has a big pair of fussy dice hanging from the mirror. Sure, any of these things on their own could be PUFFERY, but you increase your odds of buying a less troublesome car (which is real value) by steering clear of them.
I find "one owner" utterly meaningless myself. Why don't houses or used guitars sell for more with "one owner"?
It's all very romantic but it means nothing if you try to quantify it.
The car either speaks for itself or it doesn't. You are looking at the car, not some sales puffery IMO. That can lead you to a huge mistake as easily as nirvana.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
What's the Car Fox? That isn't one of those naughty sites is it? tisc tisc
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow Jip, I agree with you again (I'm getting worried). That is exactly my point.
As for Shifty saying Carfax doesn't set the market, well, when you pull a Carfax on a one owner car they tell you that on average people pay $1500 more for a one owner vehicle because "people perceive them to have been driven and cared for more consistently". That may just be a perception they are trying to create but as I've said perception is reality.
But now I'm wondering, do people pay $1500 more for a one owner car on average? What say you sales folks?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I would LOVE to here from CARFAX about where they got THAT statistic. They don't even LIST condition in their database, only miles and ownership.
Isn't a rental company "one owner"? Do rental cars sell for $1500 more?
Is a one owner car with 150,000 miles and shabby worth $1500 more than a two owner car that's pristine with 75,000 miles?
If CARFAX is saying that given two cars side by side, identical in EVERY respect---that a man off the street will gladly pay $1500 more because I tell him "the one on the left is a one owner car"-----pardon me while I laugh up my sleeve. :P
In other words, "one owner" has to be *attached* to something substantial, like very clean, like very low miles, like passing a mechanical inspection. And that of course, makes it impossible to weigh the sole effect of "one owner".
It's like saying I'm thin, rich, blonde, well-educated and happy and the conclusion therefore is that "happy people get more dates" :P
Sure a one owner car with proper credentials (maint records, good condition and upkeep) will always command more, but like Shifty said, it's gotta be attached with some solid evidence of good upkeep.
I've seen one owner 3 year old cars come in on trade that looked dirtier and more banged up than a 14 year old multiple owner Civic I just picked up for my sister.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Absolutely not - not a penny more.
I would much rather buy a car thats been garaged (spiders and all) over one that has sat out in the elements all its life. Generally, the paint finish is much nicer. That's worth something.....
If it was in my garage, and had spider footprints etched into it, you wouldn't care if I were the original owner or not. You'd care about the paint, right?
Check the window sticker. That will tell you to which dealership it was shipped. If it says it's the dealership where you bought it or one that is pretty close, I'd consider walking away -- not because there's anything wrong with the car, but b/c I'd get a bad vibe/juju from that dealership.
For example, someone might say yes, they are the first owner. This way we can go over all maintnenace that has been done since the owenr would remember it or have receipts for it.
If this owner is not the original owner, we'll ask how long they had it for. Then we'll ask where they bought it. Based on the info (where they bought it) we'll know right away what kind of life the car had. For example if it's from a Repo type lot, then chances are the vehicle had very little maintenance done to it. Because people who have their cars repoed usually won't spend money on maintenance, if they can't even afford the payments. So it might mean the car was probably poorly maintained.
Also there are some used car lots that typically sell cars with big accident histories or rebuilts, so if the car came from there, then we'll know that it's likely that it was a rebuilt. We will do an accident history search, but this gives us heads up.
So we ask that question more to find out the car's background rather than to pay extra because it was a "one owner"
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I ever do. They may because if you say it was a 2 owner car and you believe one owner was better, they may bid it lower.
That's about the funniest thing I've read here in a long time.
I'm sure jmonroe will agree.
What's the Car Fox? That isn't one of those naughty sites is it? tisc tisc
I'm not sure, but I think kristie was referring to me. :surprise:
Sorry kirstie... the Jip be married. But, I'll put this one away in my files... just in case.
Or, kristie could be referring to the Carfax commercial on t.v. This husband and wife are in a dealership sitting in front of a nervous salesman, asking him to see a carfax report. The salesman obviously knows there is something wrong with the car (repainted hood, or third owner in two years perhaps), so he plays dumb and pulls out a stuffed animal of a fox, saying,"yeah... car fox... got it right here!" :P
Bingo! That ad makes me laugh.
"No, I said CarFAX."
"Car Fox... it's the same thing."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I bet he won't agree that there's such a thing as too much wax :P
I heard that. :P
Since we're now talking about another subject of which I'm well versed, I found a great wax a few weeks ago. It was developed as a high voltage electrical insulator wax so dirt would not stick to the insulator and cause flash-over to adjacent insulators. This stuff is easy on/easy off and the water beads are the smallest I've ever seen. Nice stuff, I'm glad I found it.
I'll bet you never expected this response.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Sorry, I think jmonroe had to bring his Genny back to the dealer for repairs. Seems the springs collapsed under the weight of excessive wax.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I had contacted a few local Honda dealers wanting to know if there were any loyalship programs, where i could hand this one in now and get into something new and i've been given the cold shoulder, so I guess those don't exist or they just didn't want to be bothered. I'm looking to purchase the next van, since I learned leasing isn't for me. Any tips, suggestions..I'd greatly appreciate it, I find car purchasing so intimidating and scary!! THanks!
Do you mean Sienna XLE or Sienna CE? XE is a mistype, I just can't tell if you left a character out or mistyped a character.
Approximately how many miles will you drive between now and when your current lease ends?
What do you have to pay per excess mile?
What is your monthly payment?
What will it cost to pay out your lease today? You'll need to ask Honda this.
What is the residual value of your Odyssey?
Sienna is a good choice, no matter which trim you have selected, but you were considering a smaller vehicle. Do you really need a minivan or are you still 'keeping up with the Joneses'?
Do you mean Sienna XLE or Sienna CE? I mistyped, I actually meant LE.
Approximately how many miles will you drive between now and when your current lease ends? I'm at 46000 right now, I estimate I'll be closer to 49,000-50,000 by the time lease is over. I'm trying to limit driving to commute and short trips around town, trying not to travel too far.
What do you have to pay per excess mile? .15 (so say I go 5000 over, that'll be $750..YIKES).
What is your monthly payment? 538
What will it cost to pay out your lease today? From the Honda Financial Website, my payoff today would be $16,378.06. Another, YIKES.
What is the residual value of your Odyssey? 15484
This van I have paid far more than it's worth, when I crunch numbers and see what I have paid I want to just cry, I feel so foolish that years ago I threw so much money away that could have been put into savings, etc. Seeing and driving this van give me daily reminders of how foolish I was. So that's why now I keep asking all of these questions, I want to make a purchase that won't leave me feeling sick. The thought of paying this van off, doesn't sit well with me because it'll be my constant reminder of where all my money has gone.
I was considering a smaller vehicle, I went and took my kids and sat in a few and they were just too close to one another and I felt so cramped, now that I'm used to the extra space, i'd miss going without, so i'm pretty settled on sticking with a van. Mind might still change, we'll go a few more times to check vehicles out. We did to a degree like the Mazda5, which gives us the space, but I don't like that it doesn't have stability control or traction control, those seem like pretty standard features these days. I'm liking the Sienna over the Odyssey.
Neither, it's just pretty slick. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
C'mon Joel, give it to her straight. Anyone one that been on this forum for the last few days knows the only reason that cars sit on lot for long periods is because the dealer is waiting for all of the body pieces to arrive so they can put the car back to the way it was built before it fell off the truck.
It takes lots of time to do that stuff. Then they have to make sure the paint job will be just right so a discerning buyer will never know. To get that kind of a paint job probably accounts for most of the time the car was at the dealer before they they felt it was ready for sale. You can't rush a perfect undetectable re-paint, you know.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl