>The point is that the government should not guarantee the warranty from various companies. A warranty is between the company and the consumer. If the company goes completely out of business (no one buys it), so does your warranty.
My point is the number of vehicles that the government will have to warranty will be only the ones still under warranty, which is 3yrs/36000 miles. After that......no worry. Your example is of a lifetime warranty. Not comparable.
".....yeah let's blame the government for GM and Chrysler's problems. I guess you didn't know that GM, Ford and Chrysler all used the HUGE loophole in the CAFE standards when they sold all those pickups and SUVs. See if a vehicle is over a certain weight, it does not count toward CAFE standards. Also the government gave GM, Ford and Chrysler extra credit for all the flex fuel vehicle they produced. Never mind that these vehicles actually got 25-33% less gas mileage fuel when using E85 fuel (which is only available at 1200 gas stations nationwide). But I guess you are right, the government made it impossible for them to make money."
Don't forget, the Asians, led by Subaru, used the loophole in the CAFE standards to declare their car based wagons as light duty trucks, thereby allowing them to guzzle a little more gas and not ruin their CAFE mileage on their cars.
".....Understood. My point is to not let GM go out of business but have the government back Gm as they go through re-structuring."
I've wondered how it would work if the Gov't stepped in and negotiated a deal w/ their creditors (who already have billions of our money) that would have the US back the B3's debt in full, give them 24 months to start paying, in return for say a 5 or 10% stake in the company. This way, the B3 get 24 months of debt relief, creditors are guaranteed the money, the Gov't gets millions of shares in the companies to sell, yet NO MONEY ACTUALLY CHANGES HANDS right now.
If the right side had done it, someone would have been tarred and feathered by now..However Clinton started the mess with the rest of crew ...
I don't think its Republicans versus Democrats or conservatives versus liberals. Its really about a block of southern senators wanting D3 to fail so that there will be more business for the transplants located in their states. More transplants mean more southern jobs and tax revenues. I expect the northern senators will remember this. The south has way more per capita government monies than the north. Maybe we'll see some military or NASA location transfers down the road? In Washington, you don't get mad, you get even! I wonder if D3 survive if down the road things like the Bowling Green Corvette plant and Louisville Ford plant will have their work moved elsewhere? I expect there will eventually be payback.
I think the US has long had tighter diesel emissions standards than the EU (especially California), but the EU has about caught up. Not sure about gas engines.
Here's one link, but maybe someone has one that's easier to decipher.
No, it's both. That's another reason diesels are more popular over there.
Which brings me to another question. If the Volt uses a "generator" to recharge the batteries that power the electric motors that actually DRIVE the car, then does the engine in the Volt have to meet US motor vehicle emissions standards, or standards for an auxilliary generator engine, which would be much less strict, if they even exist.
In addition while the D3 apologists always trot out their whipping boy, CAFE, as the major reason why they are failing they also always fail to mention that the old outdated CAFE standards exclude the most profitable vehicles in the lineups, the monster SUVs.
And as you say when comparing equal vehicles on a level playing field such as small autos or midsized autos the D3 as a group don't compete very well. CAFE or no CAFE.
Now legacy costs are a different story and those do make the D3 less competitive. But they brought those costs on themselves by being weak negotiators vs the UAW,
You'll probably think I need a checkup from the neck up for saying this, but I, ummm, kind of like that yellow Aztek shown in message #1499. To qualify what I mean by "like" here, I think it's interesting, in a similar way that, say, a Pacer is interesting. Now, I'd only express that view about the more recent Azteks, without the side cladding, because those with the cladding look absolutely hideous.
The problem is that they don't meet US emission and safety standards. That is the main hangup w/ the Chevy Beat.
If you were going to invest billions in designing a new car, why wouldn't you add the relatively small amount to make it available in as many markets as possible?
I don't think its Republicans versus Democrats or conservatives versus liberals. Its really about a block of southern senators wanting D3 to fail so that there will be more business for the transplants located in their states
According to that high profile gloom and doom study, the bankruptcy of the D3 would cause shutdown of so many suppliers which feed both domestic and foreign automakers, that ALL auto production (foreign and domestic nameplates) would cease for a year in this country. If such a dire thing was legitimate the senators would be racing to back the bailout. This proves that those predictions are wild exaggerations.
...all auto production (foreign and domestic nameplates) would cease for a year in this country
Nah, I'd expect some ramifications and delays to the transplants, but nowhere near a year. What will happen is with less competition, car prices will begin climbing up - simple supply and demand, as well as higher vendor costs. People talk about the successful airline bankruptcies and reorganizations. What they don't talk about is the reduced flight schedules and higher prices. A smaller, or lost, D3 will mean less choice and a bigger chunk out of your wallet when you buy.
that i read, that at this point they are basically an HMO that also sells cars. they had a huge market share more many years, so they have the most retirees. i think people are ignoring that the automakers did not cause this crisis, they are some big collateral damage.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Historical trends in the Big Three's market share prove that more and more Americans are not buying the Big Three's products. That would indicate that they are making vehicles that less and less Americans want to buy.
In order to fix that problem, they need to make vehicles that Americans want to buy. IE - something different than the status quo.
And a good way to do this is to study/imitate successful companies.
(Anybody care to hazard a guess as to the chances that GM will do this?)
Since the Big 3 makes such absolutely fantastic vehicles... so fantastic that no other manufacturer worldwide could ever hold a candle to them... we really don't need the bailout at all, right?
After all, they make the world's best vehicles... and everyone wants to buy one!
Thank you very much for the letter. It clears up that pesky misperception about how the Big 3 has been hemorraging money for the last few years and are now about to go belly-up.
Yet... Toyota could bring over the Yaris, Honda - the Fit, and Nissan - the Versa.
None of those vehicles initially met US emission and safety standards... but they do now. So what's keeping GM? Heck, even Ford will be bringing out the Fiesta, for pete's sake!
It's amusing how politicos that will gladly give endless hundreds of billions to irresponsible banks and to pseudo-nations as "aid" will whine and moan when there's a thought to divert some to their own countrymen...
This started years ago. Way before the economy went down. When GM started buying out employees, and getting them to retire early, instead of laying them off, like every other company does. Now they are paying retirement, and healthcare for people (under retirement age) who are no longer working for them. Obviously these people, since they retired early, will be collecting longer than someone who doesn't retire early. Which means there are way too many people being paid by GM, who no longer work for them. GM complains about their retirement costs, but fail to mention they brought it on themselves. Too bad GM, nor Congress can do anything about it, without legal action. Chapter 11 is the ONLY WAY out of this mess. If they plan ahead, they can survive as a much smaller, more efficient company. What worries me, is that GM will wait too long to start planning, and planning ahead has never been GM's strong suit. :sick:
Add on top of this falling market share because customers are turning off to the designs and value proposition of most of their line up in cars and you have a fantastic business model for failure.
Hey, it's a free country!
I still vote for pre-pack in any form that will limit the blood shed. This business must be restructured far more than the reported plans put on the table during the Begging Sessions.
Eliot Spitzer (yes, that Eliot Spitzer) suggests that the Big 3 compete for bailout funds, with the money going to only 2 winners. (He apparently assumes that all 3 need & want the money.)
I don't see your logic in "because we've done something wrong or questionable, that we should do another.".
Isn't this just [non-permissible content removed]-for tat? The same sort of thinking that had/has various groups seeking payback in various areas of the world for centuries? Only you're suggesting it in the economic environment. Maybe it's time to say we can't change the past; we can only do what's right from here on out.
No bailouts for anyone that fails, or cheats. In fact I suggest we toughen laws to go after employees that have profited greatly, stripping them of all income above the national average, in years which led up to their demise. For example if you run a stock firm, and invested the last 5 years in risky mortgages, and your firm fails because of that, anything you made in the last 5 years is seized - whether they grab estates, stocks, or accounts in Switzerland.
. For example if you run a stock firm, and invested the last 5 years in risky mortgages, and your firm fails because of that, anything you made in the last 5 years is seized - whether they grab estates, stocks, or accounts in Switzerland
Now that's a great idea. Maybe on top of that, all companies should pay into a fund....like 1% of profits, kind of an insurance plan, to keep them in line. If anything illegal was happening, all investors get paid back money that was lost through illegal or reckless transactions. If there are no problems, companies are rebated half the funds every 5 years...bit of an incentive to act responsibly.
You'll probably think I need a checkup from the neck up for saying this, but I, ummm, kind of like that yellow Aztek shown in message #1499
I think you could pick one up at a really low price.
Lack of side cladding or having it doesn't really help when a car is that butt ugly.
Which brings up another point. The new Chevy Traverse SAV seems to be a pretty descent vehicle, folding seats, new design, but does GM really need another SAV?
Do what the government did during World War II. They got all the scientists and brains of the day into one group and kept them in seclusion until they came up with the Atomic Bomb to end the War!
This is a war to invent something so new that the American car market would dominate the world. (Maybe the scientists will learn how to bend gravity and make cars think they are going downhill. No need for gas or even lithium batteries there.)
The point I'm making is... behaving in war terms. Use the money to the advantage of the best minds in a war situation, and they WILL come up with the answer. Forget the bailout per se.
From 1870 to 1930 the second largest purchase that Americans made was a piano.We lost that industry to overseas production and America still thrived and prospered.
Isn't the ultimate piano - the Steinway - still manufactured in New York? My family once had a Herman Winterer piano which was made in Philadelphia in 1935. You can still see the Winterer factory from I-95 though it is graffiti-scarred and in somewhat disrepair.
That's nice, but that's barely out of warranty. What about at 75K, 100K, 125K miles?
Ask the man who owns both a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham in excess of the mileages you posted - they do extremely well!!! You take care of a Cadillac or Buick and they'll reward you with decades of loyal service!!! :shades:
do what other firms have done when money is needed. Discount the merchandise by 50% enabling the taxpayer to contribute via purchasing and get something in return immediately.
The big three can immediately credit all of their dealers 50% of their inventory cost and cut the MSRP in half.
True, it would drive down the used car inventory value, but at least the dealer would still be in business, the factories would get their needed income, & the taxpayer would win with a new car.
No way should the taxpayer donate to the vehicle industry until that industry cuts inventory by slashing prices at least in half.
As for Middlefinger & his union minions, they don't deserve the retirement benefits at the expense of the rest of us. They had their chance to accumulate savings and investments on their own, just like the rest of us.
Washington should reach in my pocket to reward a failing company whose products I have owned and deeply regretted the purchase.
The endless reliability problems and when the dealership did manage to acutally fix the problem of course there would be ample greese in the interior and new scrathes in my paint, door nics, etc.
Where has the moral compass in this country dissappeared to? What happened to not stealing other peoples savings?
You are right to point out that there should be urgency just like in a war. But that urgency should be internal to the people and organizations, that created the problem over the years, and who could fix it. There is no great urgency, as the auto industry feels they just need to make a good show in DC, and continue as usual, and the government is forced to help.
There is no issue that the automakers can not solve THEMSELVES. They can rewrite their contracts amongst themselves and shrink their organizations and employees, to get their supply and costs = to the demand and revenue. They have not even started, as they feel it is not necessary, as someone in the government will come to rescue their lazy, arrogant a__es.
While the Steinway is a very top tier piano, the Austrian Bosendorfer, is probably the best. It also predates Steinway. Steinway has had factories in NY and Hamburg Germany for well over 100 years. A decent Steinway for your home is about twice the price of a new Buick. $50k will get you a very nice used Steinway.
True, it would drive down the used car inventory value, but at least the dealer would still be in business, the factories would get their needed income, & the taxpayer would win with a new car.
We would instantly have one million dollars in scrap metal sitting on our used car lot, no one with a pay off on there trade would be able to trade because they would be buried. Any one who ever wrecked a car would be screwed come claim time, and the list goes on and on as to why that would not work.
The government loans are not bail outs of the big three - The loans are a bail out of the UAW. If our government does it, sad to say, but I will never again buy a UAW made product. I have bought GM and Ford for the last 30 years. I hope at least Ford does not take the money.
Don't forget, the Asians, led by Subaru, used the loophole in the CAFE standards to declare their car based wagons as light duty trucks, thereby allowing them to guzzle a little more gas and not ruin their CAFE mileage on their cars.
That is true but Subaru sales are dong relatively well this year. And they did not go before Congress begging for money.
The government loans are not bail outs of the big three - The loans are a bail out of the UAW.
You make an interesting point. I was flipping the channels last night and stopped at MSNBC. They had a gentleman talking about the bailouts and the political parties. Basically he said since the Reagan era, the GOP has been trying ot break the unions because they support the Democrats. His theory is that this is why the GOP will not support any bailout. They see this as an opportunity to break the UAW for supporting Obama and the Democrats. The recent Senate talks broke down because the UAW would not make additional concessions. So there may be some truth to this.
It looks like Bush will have to come to the rescue. The Republicans in Congress are not happy. They know the bailout is not popular. And if Bush pulls the trigger, it lies squarely on the Republicans.
I think many Americans feel as you do. Bailing out the B3 is tantamount to encouraging poor business practices. It will only help them continue in the same direction. GM needs to file C11 and start shedding all the dead weight they have accumulated over the last 40 years of substandard automaking. Let Cerebrus do with Chrysler whatever they like. Who really cares? Though I would consider a Wrangler with small diesel engine for a desert rig.
The Unions as a whole have never supported GOP candidates. Many Republicans in the House voted for the bailout. I think it is more of a regional thing. There were several Democrats that voiced strong opposition to the bailouts. I think the country as a whole is against the tax payers subsidizing shoddy manufacturing practices, as demonstrated by GM especially. GM is down around 20% of the market this year. A large portion of those are fleet that make GM next to nothing. I would be surprised if you could find 10% of the population that would only buy GM. Maybe even less. Time for GM to cut loose from the entanglements they have gotten themselves into or just liquidate.
Live in DFW so don't have to listen to his radio show on the net at his site. Shame more don't listen. I agree with him the far right southerners wanted to break the unions and the far left liberals want us all to drive plug in personal commuting vehicles (trying to be polite).
But he went out of his way a few times to honor the President elected in 1980, saying his soothing speeches were a comfort in a troubled time. He reading his lines like an actor, wasn't the only answer for us-he was selected for us just like the country was prepared for the current President. Please note that I am very respectful of the offices of the government which are held by citizens for the common good of all. Our founding fathers were smarter than some believe. Separation of Powers, and the right to be free from your religion.
And I wished that Rick had shown his other cheek when he had the chance, maybe he will again. Ed reminded us that Rick and gm's zero interest loans after nine eleven gave all car manufacturers one heck of a great october sales month and got the country out of a major junk based on media led fear. Never fear even when you are looking down the barrel of a rifle, a knife in your back, or when a heck of a big guy has his nose against yours.
And on the show and his site, the other countries, without hesitation, have stepped up to save their automotive industries. Canada or is it just the Ontario Provincial government will add twenty percent of the loan/bailout to keeping Detroit going. Of course we know about the plants across the border from Detroit.
About ready to bust open the garage and put a big ole American truck in there, then on his show thought I heard $13k off of an h3, basic h3 for 19,999? Still thinking about that unlimited jk and the fun of seeing all those jeep employees all the time. Ed did remind us that this is inventory clearance and after this you may buy small because you can't afford anything else.
The radio show got a little far right about socialism and that it started with FDR and social security and the disgust about political decisions favoring one company versus another. A political decision by definition is a decision for someone at the expense of another. But he cleared up the misinformation about a political leader stating the "riots" in that Chicago building was only a sit-in. Does he remember Sol Alinsky too. F..tins, S..tins if I remember correctly from a management course in a southern red college, even had to read the playboy interview.
That's nice, but that's barely out of warranty. What about at 75K, 100K, 125K miles?
Ask the man who owns both a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham in excess of the mileages you posted - they do extremely well!!! You take care of a Cadillac or Buick and they'll reward you with decades of loyal service!!!
My father still has his 71 Impala. That says NOTHING about it's reliability, build quality, or it's driving dynamics (which are all less than stellar). It only means it's been sitting there for quite a while. His Impala, and your Buick and Cadillac are Dinosaurs, worth more as scrap metal than cars at this point.
i think most CR subscibers are not inclined to buy anything domestic. it's just not in their genes. all auto retailers are in trouble due to the housing meltdown and for which 4.50 gas was the match. look at the november sales percentages. it was a huge downturn across the board.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
worth more as scrap metal than cars at this point.
That may be true. However my wife's 1990 LS400 is still going strong and gets driven 3 or 4 times per week. It may be worthless as a trade-in. It is still a very reliable car for us to have. No good reason to sell it at scrap prices. We will just keep driving it until something expensive fails.
For a long time CR was considered the lone source of un-biased (no advertising $$) thorough testing information available. This did not bode well for the Detroit 3 in the 80's and 90's, because their cars were "sub-par", and CR said so. :surprise:
Then go and buy them - I'll be last to stop you. Of course as a loyal supporter, you will buy at MSRP+$2000 ADM (dealer fund) + $2500 (UAW fund), won't you? Oh, I forgot - it's not about you - it's abou making ME buy their cr.., I mean product. Of course, that's on top of my taxes going now to Gettelfinger election comittee...
Comments
My point is the number of vehicles that the government will have to warranty will be only the ones still under warranty, which is 3yrs/36000 miles. After that......no worry.
Your example is of a lifetime warranty. Not comparable.
The problem is that they don't meet US emission and safety standards. That is the main hangup w/ the Chevy Beat.
Don't forget, the Asians, led by Subaru, used the loophole in the CAFE standards to declare their car based wagons as light duty trucks, thereby allowing them to guzzle a little more gas and not ruin their CAFE mileage on their cars.
'cause either way you are going to go to jail.
Nah, the guys that steal billions still get to run the companies they stole from. The jerk who robs a bank goes to jail.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I've wondered how it would work if the Gov't stepped in and negotiated a deal w/ their creditors (who already have billions of our money) that would have the US back the B3's debt in full, give them 24 months to start paying, in return for say a 5 or 10% stake in the company. This way, the B3 get 24 months of debt relief, creditors are guaranteed the money, the Gov't gets millions of shares in the companies to sell, yet NO MONEY ACTUALLY CHANGES HANDS right now.
I don't think its Republicans versus Democrats or conservatives versus liberals. Its really about a block of southern senators wanting D3 to fail so that there will be more business for the transplants located in their states. More transplants mean more southern jobs and tax revenues. I expect the northern senators will remember this. The south has way more per capita government monies than the north. Maybe we'll see some military or NASA location transfers down the road? In Washington, you don't get mad, you get even! I wonder if D3 survive if down the road things like the Bowling Green Corvette plant and Louisville Ford plant will have their work moved elsewhere? I expect there will eventually be payback.
And I always thought Europe was the leader in emission standards.
Maybe the safety standards?
Here's one link, but maybe someone has one that's easier to decipher.
Which brings me to another question. If the Volt uses a "generator" to recharge the batteries that power the electric motors that actually DRIVE the car, then does the engine in the Volt have to meet US motor vehicle emissions standards, or standards for an auxilliary generator engine, which would be much less strict, if they even exist.
And as you say when comparing equal vehicles on a level playing field such as small autos or midsized autos the D3 as a group don't compete very well. CAFE or no CAFE.
Now legacy costs are a different story and those do make the D3 less competitive. But they brought those costs on themselves by being weak negotiators vs the UAW,
If you were going to invest billions in designing a new car, why wouldn't you add the relatively small amount to make it available in as many markets as possible?
Like Fit, Yaris, Versa, for example.
According to that high profile gloom and doom study, the bankruptcy of the D3 would cause shutdown of so many suppliers which feed both domestic and foreign automakers, that ALL auto production (foreign and domestic nameplates) would cease for a year in this country. If such a dire thing was legitimate the senators would be racing to back the bailout. This proves that those predictions are wild exaggerations.
Nah, I'd expect some ramifications and delays to the transplants, but nowhere near a year. What will happen is with less competition, car prices will begin climbing up - simple supply and demand, as well as higher vendor costs. People talk about the successful airline bankruptcies and reorganizations. What they don't talk about is the reduced flight schedules and higher prices. A smaller, or lost, D3 will mean less choice and a bigger chunk out of your wallet when you buy.
they had a huge market share more many years, so they have the most retirees.
i think people are ignoring that the automakers did not cause this crisis, they are some big collateral damage.
Historical trends in the Big Three's market share prove that more and more Americans are not buying the Big Three's products. That would indicate that they are making vehicles that less and less Americans want to buy.
In order to fix that problem, they need to make vehicles that Americans want to buy. IE - something different than the status quo.
And a good way to do this is to study/imitate successful companies.
(Anybody care to hazard a guess as to the chances that GM will do this?)
Since the Big 3 makes such absolutely fantastic vehicles... so fantastic that no other manufacturer worldwide could ever hold a candle to them... we really don't need the bailout at all, right?
After all, they make the world's best vehicles... and everyone wants to buy one!
Thank you very much for the letter. It clears up that pesky misperception about how the Big 3 has been hemorraging money for the last few years and are now about to go belly-up.
:shades:
None of those vehicles initially met US emission and safety standards... but they do now. So what's keeping GM? Heck, even Ford will be bringing out the Fiesta, for pete's sake!
It's amusing how politicos that will gladly give endless hundreds of billions to irresponsible banks and to pseudo-nations as "aid" will whine and moan when there's a thought to divert some to their own countrymen...
Hey, it's a free country!
I still vote for pre-pack in any form that will limit the blood shed. This business must be restructured far more than the reported plans put on the table during the Begging Sessions.
Regards,
OW
A Better Bailout Plan
Isn't this just [non-permissible content removed]-for tat? The same sort of thinking that had/has various groups seeking payback in various areas of the world for centuries? Only you're suggesting it in the economic environment. Maybe it's time to say we can't change the past; we can only do what's right from here on out.
No bailouts for anyone that fails, or cheats. In fact I suggest we toughen laws to go after employees that have profited greatly, stripping them of all income above the national average, in years which led up to their demise. For example if you run a stock firm, and invested the last 5 years in risky mortgages, and your firm fails because of that, anything you made in the last 5 years is seized - whether they grab estates, stocks, or accounts in Switzerland.
Now that's a great idea. Maybe on top of that, all companies should pay into a fund....like 1% of profits, kind of an insurance plan, to keep them in line. If anything illegal was happening, all investors get paid back money that was lost through illegal or reckless transactions. If there are no problems, companies are rebated half the funds every 5 years...bit of an incentive to act responsibly.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think you could pick one up at a really low price.
Lack of side cladding or having it doesn't really help when a car is that butt ugly.
Which brings up another point. The new Chevy Traverse SAV seems to be a pretty descent vehicle, folding seats, new design, but does GM really need another SAV?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This is a war to invent something so new that the American car market would dominate the world. (Maybe the scientists will learn how to bend gravity and make cars think they are going downhill. No need for gas or even lithium batteries there.)
The point I'm making is... behaving in war terms. Use the money to the advantage of the best minds in a war situation, and they WILL come up with the answer. Forget the bailout per se.
Isn't the ultimate piano - the Steinway - still manufactured in New York? My family once had a Herman Winterer piano which was made in Philadelphia in 1935. You can still see the Winterer factory from I-95 though it is graffiti-scarred and in somewhat disrepair.
Ask the man who owns both a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham in excess of the mileages you posted - they do extremely well!!! You take care of a Cadillac or Buick and they'll reward you with decades of loyal service!!! :shades:
The big three can immediately credit all of their dealers 50% of their inventory cost and cut the MSRP in half.
True, it would drive down the used car inventory value, but at least the dealer would still be in business, the factories would get their needed income, & the taxpayer would win with a new car.
No way should the taxpayer donate to the vehicle industry until that industry cuts inventory by slashing prices at least in half.
As for Middlefinger & his union minions, they don't deserve the retirement benefits at the expense of the rest of us. They had their chance to accumulate savings and investments on their own, just like the rest of us.
Here's some good whine for Detroit.
Ponzi Scheme Celebration
Regards,
OW
The endless reliability problems and when the dealership did manage to acutally fix the problem of course there would be ample greese in the interior and new scrathes in my paint, door nics, etc.
Where has the moral compass in this country dissappeared to? What happened to not stealing other peoples savings?
The answer to the question is NO NO and NO.
You are right to point out that there should be urgency just like in a war. But that urgency should be internal to the people and organizations, that created the problem over the years, and who could fix it. There is no great urgency, as the auto industry feels they just need to make a good show in DC, and continue as usual, and the government is forced to help.
There is no issue that the automakers can not solve THEMSELVES. They can rewrite their contracts amongst themselves and shrink their organizations and employees, to get their supply and costs = to the demand and revenue. They have not even started, as they feel it is not necessary, as someone in the government will come to rescue their lazy, arrogant a__es.
While the Steinway is a very top tier piano, the Austrian Bosendorfer, is probably the best. It also predates Steinway. Steinway has had factories in NY and Hamburg Germany for well over 100 years. A decent Steinway for your home is about twice the price of a new Buick. $50k will get you a very nice used Steinway.
We would instantly have one million dollars in scrap metal sitting on our used car lot, no one with a pay off on there trade would be able to trade because they would be buried. Any one who ever wrecked a car would be screwed come claim time, and the list goes on and on as to why that would not work.
That is true but Subaru sales are dong relatively well this year. And they did not go before Congress begging for money.
You make an interesting point. I was flipping the channels last night and stopped at MSNBC. They had a gentleman talking about the bailouts and the political parties. Basically he said since the Reagan era, the GOP has been trying ot break the unions because they support the Democrats. His theory is that this is why the GOP will not support any bailout. They see this as an opportunity to break the UAW for supporting Obama and the Democrats. The recent Senate talks broke down because the UAW would not make additional concessions. So there may be some truth to this.
It looks like Bush will have to come to the rescue. The Republicans in Congress are not happy. They know the bailout is not popular. And if Bush pulls the trigger, it lies squarely on the Republicans.
What is everyone's thought on this theory?
I think many Americans feel as you do. Bailing out the B3 is tantamount to encouraging poor business practices. It will only help them continue in the same direction. GM needs to file C11 and start shedding all the dead weight they have accumulated over the last 40 years of substandard automaking. Let Cerebrus do with Chrysler whatever they like. Who really cares? Though I would consider a Wrangler with small diesel engine for a desert rig.
The Unions as a whole have never supported GOP candidates. Many Republicans in the House voted for the bailout. I think it is more of a regional thing. There were several Democrats that voiced strong opposition to the bailouts. I think the country as a whole is against the tax payers subsidizing shoddy manufacturing practices, as demonstrated by GM especially. GM is down around 20% of the market this year. A large portion of those are fleet that make GM next to nothing. I would be surprised if you could find 10% of the population that would only buy GM. Maybe even less. Time for GM to cut loose from the entanglements they have gotten themselves into or just liquidate.
But he went out of his way a few times to honor the President elected in 1980, saying his soothing speeches were a comfort in a troubled time. He reading his lines like an actor, wasn't the only answer for us-he was selected for us just like the country was prepared for the current President. Please note that I am very respectful of the offices of the government which are held by citizens for the common good of all. Our founding fathers were smarter than some believe. Separation of Powers, and the right to be free from your religion.
And I wished that Rick had shown his other cheek when he had the chance, maybe he will again. Ed reminded us that Rick and gm's zero interest loans after nine eleven gave all car manufacturers one heck of a great october sales month and got the country out of a major junk based on media led fear. Never fear even when you are looking down the barrel of a rifle, a knife in your back, or when a heck of a big guy has his nose against yours.
And on the show and his site, the other countries, without hesitation, have stepped up to save their automotive industries. Canada or is it just the Ontario Provincial government will add twenty percent of the loan/bailout to keeping Detroit going. Of course we know about the plants across the border from Detroit.
About ready to bust open the garage and put a big ole American truck in there, then on his show thought I heard $13k off of an h3, basic h3 for 19,999? Still thinking about that unlimited jk and the fun of seeing all those jeep employees all the time. Ed did remind us that this is inventory clearance and after this you may buy small because you can't afford anything else.
The radio show got a little far right about socialism and that it started with FDR and social security and the disgust about political decisions favoring one company versus another. A political decision by definition is a decision for someone at the expense of another. But he cleared up the misinformation about a political leader stating the "riots" in that Chicago building was only a sit-in. Does he remember Sol Alinsky too. F..tins, S..tins if I remember correctly from a management course in a southern red college, even had to read the playboy interview.
Ask the man who owns both a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham in excess of the mileages you posted - they do extremely well!!! You take care of a Cadillac or Buick and they'll reward you with decades of loyal service!!!
My father still has his 71 Impala. That says NOTHING about it's reliability, build quality, or it's driving dynamics (which are all less than stellar). It only means it's been sitting there for quite a while. His Impala, and your Buick and Cadillac are Dinosaurs, worth more as scrap metal than cars at this point.
it's just not in their genes.
all auto retailers are in trouble due to the housing meltdown and for which 4.50 gas was the match. look at the november sales percentages. it was a huge downturn across the board.
That may be true. However my wife's 1990 LS400 is still going strong and gets driven 3 or 4 times per week. It may be worthless as a trade-in. It is still a very reliable car for us to have. No good reason to sell it at scrap prices. We will just keep driving it until something expensive fails.
2018 430i Gran Coupe