When Portland Opera increased our season ticket price for next year 44%, we gave it up.
In the spirit of sophisticated entertainment, I went to the movies on Sunday to see the new "Friday the Thirteenth". Matinee tickets are now up to $8.00 apiece at that theater! I swear that not that long ago, they were more like $6-6.50.
Now, $1.50 isn't going to break me, and isn't going to stop me from seeing Madea go to Jail, but that still represents a 23-33% increase, in the course of a year.
Yeah, we should only be eating 3 out of 7 days of the week like the rest of the world instead of every day like the gluttonous Americans we are. We should also be bathing once every two months, give or take, as well. Just think of all the money we'd be saving on water, soap, and toiletries. And shoes...? We don't need no stinking shoes! The rest of the world goes barefoot, so should we!
Yeah, we should only be eating 3 out of 7 days of the week like the rest of the world instead of every day like the gluttonous Americans we are. We should also be bathing once every two months, give or take, as well. Just think of all the money we'd be saving on water, soap, and toiletries. And shoes...? We don't need no stinking shoes! The rest of the world goes barefoot, so should we!
That's not the the high life style most people in the US are talking about. The one they're talking about is needing an SUV for each driver to drive 5 minutes to work every day, then eating 2 double quarter pounders with cheese and a super size fries for lunch (and a DIET coke). In some ways we ARE pretty gluttonous...and while that's fine when you can afford it, several years ago we started to not be able to afford it. however, rather than admitting that we had CEOs increasing their bonuses to pay for it, homeowners taking HELOCs to pay for it, etc etc, rather than acknowledging the reality that, just maybe, we don't have enough money coming in to pay for it and maybe we need to cut back somewhere.
Now people are finally admitting it, though some still don't like that fact, and some are still trying to avoid it (CEOs, Madoffs, anyone elected to office in Washington, etc). Time to get with the program...you don't NEED to carry 3 cellphones! Seriously, I see people doing it.
I see your point, but some individuals are outright expressing their unwillingness to cut back. They're royally peeved that they have to get up and go to work every day to pay for these bailouts. They figure that they're not cutting back until some of the "fat cats" cut back - gotta pay for the bailouts, they feel entitled to enjoy their lives.
I also see their point.
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I see their point too...why should WE have to pay so that THEY get to keep their "high life style" while WE get to cut back? it's a bit unfair...then again, that's why I mentioned my list of people unwilling to admit to reality.
They figure that they're not cutting back until some of the "fat cats" cut back - gotta pay for the bailouts, they feel entitled to enjoy their lives.
I say "Too bad" to that crappola. My GF just told her 18 year old son that he does not have a right to a cell-phone and his 250 text-messages, when he can't afford it. Cell-phone cancelled. The kid wrecked a car and now wants a loan for another one - we told him walk and get to work.
Everyone should be expected to have some pride in this life, and to support yourself (unless your totally disabled - but even Steven Hawking shows you can always make a living from a wheel chair).
The kid wrecked a car and now wants a loan for another one - we told him walk and get to work.
My youngest son was the teen-ager from hell, chip on his shoulder with a "world owes me a favor" attitude. When he went away for his first year at college, I offered him my 7 yr old Honda CRV with 100K miles to drive. He says "I wouldn't be caught dead driving that boxy thing". I said, "OK, you can walk then". He came home for Chrstimas break begging me to let him take the CRV, smartest thing I ever did with him.
What IS it with kids these days? I asked my Dad for a car for my 16th birthday and got a profanity laced response, "Get a (censored) job and buy your own (censored) car and pay for the (censored) insurance!" Well, I did get a job and bought a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe for the grand total of $650. Dad mellowed out a bit when he saw I took responsibility and helped me with the insurance. I was very careful driving my new old car and maintained it religiously. I had no accidents and no traffic tickets. I was able to buy a 1979 Buick Park Avenue a few years later and passed the Special Deluxe down to my brother.
I too see Congress preaching to everyone else to cut back and not use jets, but they use the high-flying lifestyle full of carbon production while they want us put into early Beetle horsepower little cars. They gave themselves a $7000 raise but preach to auto executives and others about cutting salaries and private jet travel. They don't want to subsidize GM while other countries have subsidized their auto industry through the decades as they undercut ours due to our self-inflicted wounds.
If Congress cut, I'd believe the whole country needs to inhale and cut back. Congress is just waiting for the recovery so they can add on the cap and trade tax which they forgot to mention during the campaign as a tax. Everyone's energy bills will go up and that will hurt.
They don't want to subsidize GM while other countries have subsidized their auto industry through the decades as they undercut ours due to our self-inflicted wounds.
That's fine with me. I've never heard a convincing argument in favor of subsidies.
Just because taxpayers in other countries allow their governments to pick their pockets to prop up failing companies doesn't mean that we should allow our government to do the same thing to us.
Look at our very own farm subsidy program, which enriches 1 per cent of us at great cost to the other 99 per cent. That should tell you everything that you need to know about government subsidies.
What subsidizing does is keep those businesses going that aren't necessarily the most efficient or have the best products. It is also unfair to people who want to compete, and that is a BIG problem, that impresses upon everyone (who understands) that the system is fixed for those in power (more so then even today!).
For example say Dell got a $100 subsidy for each computer they sell, because the foreign companies are subsidizing their computer companies. Now if I want to get into the computer business, and I can make the same computer for $50 less, but I get no subsidy, then I have been locked out of starting a business, as my computer will cost $50 more, rathe rthan $50 less.
That simple example applies to any industry. Subsidies help those in power at the opportunity expense of others AND also adds injury to insult, by taking our tax money to provide the subsidy.
Congress is just waiting for the recovery so they can add on the cap and trade tax which they forgot to mention during the campaign as a tax. Everyone's energy bills will go up and that will hurt.
That will just about pay for the $400 tax cut for 95% of working families. I figured about $450 per year more on the utility bills. Of course it will be bigger taxes on factories that are not at zero GHG emissions. How many auto factories put out ZERO GHG? The manufacturers that are not already going broke need to get out of the country quick while they have enough money to build in a less repressive country. I am sure that was some of the thinking on that new Ford factory in Brazil.
If you live in a cave and hunt with a bow and arrow for your food, there should be little change other than more company and fighting to keep the masses out of your cave.
PS Get the cook book by Ted Nugent "Kill it and Grill it.
AND also adds injury to insult, by taking our tax money to provide the subsidy.
Makes for an uneven playing field. They give money to GM they should give an equal percentage to all automakers building cars in the USA. Then we are right back in the same situation GM going broke because they can no longer compete with the competition. Putting off the inevitable will not make it any easier for those losing their jobs.
I have no ipod, no blackberry, no cable tv, no Nike Air, no under armor, no 2002-2009 vehicles, no texting package or insurance on my cell phone, no 17 inch rims, no vacations over 3 days in over a year, no smooth top stove, no dutch door fridge, no auto loans or lease payments, no college loans, no college financial aid coming to me, no child tax credit, no boat, no suv, no camper, no motorcycle, no foreign brand cars, no dog, no daily newspaper, no timeshare, no blue ray player, no warranties on any vehicles or extended ones on appliances, no electric start mower, no gardener, no accountant, no tax man, no financial planner, no tutor, no maid, no cook, no nanny, no network (like with Verizon), and no big contribution to the current downturn. Some might even argue that I don't splurge enough to boost the economy.
Do I still live the high life?
I have a big car, a big house, a big truck, a big mortgage, a big yard (no food garden), TWO magazine subscriptions (not CR), and live well below my means. I could argue that the high life is living just within your means so your lifestyle is not at risk in a downturn or contributing to it. I don't agree that I should try to avoid the high life by living in a small, cramped house, shoved into a crowded neighborhood, within biking distance from my job, paying higher taxes, and sharing a small, cramped car with a tiny engine that would handle well on curvy roads that are a mere ten hour drive away.
If we can spend $8B MORE on earmarks, and $30B MORE on college financial aid, how about helping GM so one day they can offer internships and eventually good jobs to those college students? The transpalnts do very little development or counting of their money in the US.
".....Just because taxpayers in other countries allow their governments to pick their pockets to prop up failing companies doesn't mean that we should allow our government to do the same thing to us."
I hope that can go the other way too, as in just because other countries allow their companies to pollute like crazy, have little to no safety regulations, and pay their workers a pittance doesn't mean that our government has to do the same for us.
".....Now if I want to get into the computer business, and I can make the same computer for $50 less, but I get no subsidy, then I have been locked out of starting a business, as my computer will cost $50 more, rather than $50 less."
While I agree in principle, the main question I would have is WHY you wouldn't get no subsidy. If you are an American company, you should be treated the same as other American companies.
I hope that can go the other way too, as in just because other countries allow their companies to pollute like crazy, have little to no safety regulations, and pay their workers a pittance doesn't mean that our government has to do the same for us.
I agree with you're trying to say here...up to a point. I don't think that any government should have a say in how much people are paid for their work.
They wouldn't have to have a say, just "encourage" making/doing it here, and "discourage" making/doing it elsewhere. Tax breaks could be one way, and making sure that if a company builds a plant elsewhere, make sure that that foreign plant AT LEAST meets our standards in terms of safety, pollution, etc.
While I agree in principle, the main question I would have is WHY you wouldn't get no subsidy. If you are an American company, you should be treated the same as other American companies.
Well, our brilliant farm subsidy program doesn't treat all farmers equally. Most of the money goes to grain farmers. You'll get nothing if you grow fruits or vegetables.
How does a tax break differ from a subsidy? They're just slightly different ways of picking my pocket.
Government doesn't create wealth. It just redistributes it to suit the whims of those in power. You & I as taxpayers foot the bill for these tax breaks.
There's really only one honest way for a company to get my money: make things that I'm willing to pay for. Tax breaks & subsidies amount to a state-sanctioned mugging. If a company can't survive without these, it should go out of business.
make sure that that foreign plant AT LEAST meets our standards in terms of safety, pollution, etc.
Our current Congress in the 2007 Energy bill mandated the use of CFL bulbs by 2012 I believe it is. Yet they cannot be made in the USA due to regulations regarding mercury. They have put 1000s of UNION employees out of work that were making incandescent bulbs. These are not a cheap product and most of the money is going to China that now produces all CFLs that I could find in the stores. So much for buying American. When our government forces US to buy Chinese goods. No talk of subsidizing those workers displaced by lame legislation.
I agree, when does congress get a pay cut for lousy performance. The frustrating thing is, everyone complains about congress, but all we have to do is vote ALL of them out - no more career politicians. Additionally, congress only has certain delegated powers - nothing more. The population has somehow come to believe the government can do anything it wants as long as there are enough votes. This is far from the truth. The government is only authorized certain powers REGARDLESS of how many votes there may be. The population need only READ the constitution.
Your ideas sound great. Now try and sell them to a cable news watcher who believes Honda, Toyota, and the rest of the flag waving imports, build everything they sell here in US factories. All the while everything GM, Ford, and Chrysler make is imported from Mexico. That's the crap they are spewing in the media. You see, I used to be one of those "mis-informed" morons. Someone opened up my eyes. Oh, and having two transmission failures in a Honda before 20k miles, and Engine Sludge Cover up fiasco from Toyota, kind of sealed the deal on over rated Asian brands.
the main question I would have is WHY you wouldn't get no subsidy. If you are an American company, you should be treated the same as other American companies.
Probably because anyone trying to startup a business is a "nobody" to the legislators. A startup does not have lobbyists, or wouldn't be recognized yet. Do you think that if I bought a former auto-plant, and declared "I'm in business and need help" that I would be given $4B or so? or $2,000 for every vehicle I build?
It'll probably take the death of the Big Three and the availability of nothing but imports to show the fanboys their imports aren't really all that. "Gee, this Accord really isn't as good as I thought it was! It's really just average at best and its frequently scheduled dealer maintenance is killing me!"
I just have to ask... I drive an import, Nissan Versa that I have no issues with. I've driven Nissans exclusively since 1980, almost 2 millions miles combined driving with no major issues. I keep up with the regular maintenance schedule. If the D3 go away, why am I suddenly going to think my cars are just average at best? Why is ANYONE who is happy with their cars going to suddenly change their mind if Detroit no longer provides them with options?
What if only GM and Chrylser go away? Are Ford owners suddenly going to realize that they should have been buying GM all along?
I understand you're a fan of Detroit, but I don't see import owners suddenly "seeing the light" about what they were missing. They've made their choice and it's something that Detroit hasn't been able to reverse.
And throwing more of our money at them to stave off Chapt 11 only have them wind up at the restructuring under Chapt 11 seems insane.
I think it is safe to say at least one of the D3 will survive and possibly two. I think GM is toast as they are not showing any innovation to get out of their mess. They have to know they cannot continue with the legacy costs selling half as many vehicles. It is not rocket science.
You are right about Asian service. Toyota really gouges on basics like oil changes. The whole time I owned the 2005 GMC PU I did not pay for a single service at the GMC dealer. They would send freebie coupons in the mail. Toyota which is right across the street from the GMC dealer charged $60 for an oil change with cheapo 30 weight dino oil. Wanted $70 more for synthetic. They were no better than GMC at fixing problems I have with this Sequoia.
The best service I have gotten over the years in San Diego was from Bob Stall Chevrolet and Drew Ford/VW/Hyundai. The local Honda and Lexus dealers are jerks.
I didn't say that import buyers would think their cars are bad, just that they aren't as good as they were hyped-up to be. Who's to say that Toyonda won't slack off now that they don't have the Big Three to worry about anymore? Of course Hyundai-Kia would only benefit.
This goes back to 1989. A co-worker had a 1984 Accord and told me he took it in for its scheduled maintenance. I asked how much it was and he said "$400." Four hundred dollars? That's a lot in 1989 money. I looked at his receipt and much of it was stuff I could've done for him for free!
Toyota has VW hot on its heals World wide. They cannot slack off too much. A case can be made for the Jetta TDI being the most economical car in the class. Real world mileage is coming in at over 40 MPG in a great handling sedan and wagon. Priced more than competitive with the offerings from Toyota. Add to that VW US sales were only off 3.2% last year. None of the other majors can claim that. We should be giving them a subsidy to get that plant built and in full operation down in TN. Makes more sense than throwing money down the GM toilet. Rewarding good behavior will make the US stronger than rewarding failures like GM.
That's odd! Toyota and VW seem to be at opposite extremes of the scale. Toyota may be reliable, but it's as dull as unflavored rice cakes. VW might have nice design with a flair for performance, but they only run every other Tuesday.
You are right about Asian service. Toyota really gouges on basics like oil changes. The whole time I owned the 2005 GMC PU I did not pay for a single service at the GMC dealer.
Oh the domestic dealers will try to gouge you too, if you give them half a chance. I remember when my Intrepid was around the 25,000 mile mark, they tried to get me to come in for about $300 worth of crap. The main thing I wanted done was a tranny service. I think they tried to stick me for spark plugs (you know, the ones that are supposed to go 100K on the regular schedule, and 50K on the "severe"?), a coolant flush (for 5 year/100K mile coolant?!), and new belts (owner's manual calls for a 60,000 mile service interval), and a few other odds and ends.
In the end, I think I got my mechanic to service the tranny, at 30,000 miles, for around $100. New spark plugs came at 51,000 miles. I had the coolant and belts replaced at 86,000 miles. Even though it had the 5 year/100K coolant, the mechanic said that if you change it a little early (this was just shy of 4 years), it's really better for it. And then, you can get away with just doing the coolant. If you wait until 5 years, you really should replace the hoses, too.
The Toyota dealer my uncle bought his Corolla from wasn't so hot when it came to service. In fact, they even lost track of his car once, and couldn't find it! Nowadays, when he needs something done, he just takes it to my mechanic.
Oh, as for quality, I'd say his Corolla has been decent. Not rock-solid ultra-reliable, but still decent. It has about 170,000 miles on it, mostly highway, and the two biggest repairs I can think of were the catalytic converter and the water pump. The water pump went out in 2007. The catalytic converter is a two part unit. One part was replaced in 2007, and the other part just maybe a month ago.
On the Nissan front, my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima is pushing 280,000 miles. Other than having the tranny crap out at 35,000 miles, and replaced under warranty, the car has been pretty good. I don't know if they take it in for those high-priced 30K mile service intervals or not, though. Or does Nissan try to push that, the way Honda and Toyota seem to?
VW has had reliability issues in the past. Just as GM has had. VW has cars in the rest of the World that Toyota and GM can only wish they had. I would say VW will pass up GM this year if they have not already done so. I wish they would build the Rabbit PU with that great TDI engine again. Who else has EVER built a PU truck that gets 50 MPG? And when you find one for sale they sell for more than they did originally.
Obama, if you are listening. Make sure the best survive with guaranteed loans. Propping up losers will not make America stronger.
I think prices at different dealers varies quite a bit. My inlaws have an 05 Camry that they take to the dealer for routine maintenance. When they bought it, the dealer gave them $12 per oil change as long as they own the car. The car now has near 90k miles on it w/o any issues and no excessive charges.
When I owned an '01 Nissan Pathfinder, I bought if new from a dealer that also sold Oldsmobile, Jeep, and Kia all at the same location. They treated me just like anyone who bought one of their other makes.
I had the Pathfinder for 4 years and maintenance was never an issue and I never paid anything outrageous for service or recommended service.
When I had a '00 Jetta TDI, the oil changes were a bit more, but it was a diesel that used synthetic oil. Back then, I paid $45 per oil change for synthetic, but that was every 10k miles so it equaled out. The only other maintenance item was the fuel filter that is a must to change at required intervals and that was like $40-50 every 20k miles. I only had the VW a little over a year and 35k miles and never paid for anything other than what I've mentioned and was treated very well.
Ironically, the only dealership I have been really put off by was Saturn. They were a real PIA dealing with warranty issues of severe oil consumption (qt every 250-500 miles on an engine with 60k) and a manual transmission the periodically would jump out of gear.
When I owned a Suburban it seemed it was always at the dealer and the bill was never under $500 and usually over $1,000. So it's not like just because it's domestic it automatically is cheap to maintain. When the trans died at 45k and GM told to bad it's out of warranty, the dealer wanted $3500. I about choked and found a reputable independent trans mechanic that rebuilt it for me for $1600 with updated components and a 3 year unlimited mile warranty. The trans was way better than new in how it shifted and it held up until I traded it in.
Finding a good independent mechanic is far better than wasting money at the dealership.
I cannot even imagine owning a vehicle with 280k miles on it. Let alone driving it. My beater 99 Ford Ranger is at 112k and needs a transmission overhaul. I will just nurse until I decide what to do. I just had it serviced for $93. I should probably sell it and buy a full size diesel Ford. I like the older models pre 1995. Ford may be the only domestic left to get parts from. That Ranger is the highest mileage vehicle I have ever owned.
I cannot even imagine owning a vehicle with 280k miles on it
Me either, by the time most cars get to 100k, rattles develop that drive me nuts, the suspension gets worn with the bushings etc wearing out. Even though many cars can go 200k, I can't deal with them that long. I generally drive them to 100k or so and replace.
I cannot even imagine owning a vehicle with 280k miles on it. Let alone driving it.
Well, my Mom and stepdad carpool to work together. He drops her off, and then goes on to his job. They put about 125 miles per day on the car, mostly highway, so it's really not that stressful. I gotta admit, it scares me a bit that they're driving around in something that high-mileage...almost a role-reversal from the old days of when Mom would worry about me driving around in some old mastodon that was older than me! The car still looks good though, and even sounds fine. Well, truth be told, its engine always sounded kinda crude to me, even when new, but I think that's just because I'm used to the sound of a V-6 or V-8.
They bought a 2008 Altima about a year ago, but don't drive it much, choosing instead to keep running the '99. I think the dealer was only going to give them around $600 in trade, so they opted to keep it. They use the new one though, when they go on long trips. I think it might have about 9-10,000 miles on it now.
As for the dealership, the only time I ever took my Intrepid in was for warranty/TSB work, or a recall.
A reporter is looking to speak to consumers who purchased a domestic vehicle in the past and got burned (poor quality, reliability, etc) and will no longer purchase a domestic car again. Please send your daytime phone number to ctalati@edmunds.com by Thursday, March 12, 2009.
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OK, so your assumption is that import buyers have fallen for hype. I'd contend that an awful lot of us have not. Detroit put out a lot of bad cars for a long time and the quality of the current offerings from Detroit is almost irrelevant. It would take a disastrous experience with a Nissan to get me looking elsewhere right now.
Would YOU slack off if you were Toyonda right now? I don't think so.
He doesn't want to drive a Honda CRV? Smart kid. Maybe he doesn't want to be stranded either
He drove it for 2 years and never had a problem. I eventually sold it for $6K, not bad for a 10 yr old vehicle with 140K miles that cost $18K brand spanking new. Those suckers really held their value.
Continuous improvement is part of the corporate culture of both Honda and Toyota.
They do not have the Detroit mentality - where lip service is paid to quality until the wolf is at the door, and suddenly they find quality "religion."
It's a matter of corporate culture - which Ford, of all the domestics, has made the most progress in changing. Note that Ford's quality gains have therefore been more consistent across its lineup compared to GM and Chrysler, and have been trending upward for the past several years.
So I doubt that Toyota and Honda would slack off if GM and/or Chrysler vanished. It's not like those two companies were the toughest competitors in the American market anyway.
Oh, I have an excellent independent mechanic for my older cars. However, finding one that has the expertise and capital to service newer cars is tough to find. The equipment and special tools alone are prohibitively expensive. Wonder if any independent mechanics are getting a heck of a deal on equipment from all these dealers that are folding?
I'm a little confused, as was pf_flyer, by your original comment that if (perhaps when?) the D3 go away import buyers will come to realize their vehicles aren't as great as they thought.
Your comment could be read as since the D3 are gone, the "bad" vehicles are no longer being produced and because of this all the imports are going to drop down somewhat to just being average, everyday transportation. In other words, instead of them being above the curve or at the higher limit than the domestics, with the domestics gone they no longer have the lower-level product offerings to compete with so they drop down to the average? And if that's the case, then if the imports disappeared the domestics would rise up to above average?
Or were you basing your comment on Honda, Toyota, Hyundai slacking off after the D3 bite the dust?
Lastly, while I do agree that the imports do charge a lot and have a lot of scheduled maintenance how frequently are the vehicles in the shop in-between these maintenance intervals? While it may be cheaper to service a domestic, if you start adding up the number of times you have to take the domestic in for service you'd be surprised that it could be even more. The domestic dealers charge hella prices for service and play the "you need this serviced too" B.S. as well!!!! That's why I repair as much as I can myself and only take my vehicle into the shop when I absolutely have too.
Own one and then get back to us. You haven't so your assumptions are baseless. Again, no offense intended.
That's how I was converted. I grew up in a 100% domestic family until an uncle of mine (who was only 7 years older than me) bought a new '87 Honda CRX SI. That car blew me away in terms of quality and being fun to drive. Then in college while I was still driving various domestics, my college buddies had Celica's, Accords, Preludes, Civics, MR2's etc, which were great to drive and reliable, where as my domestic alternatives were not.
In Lemko's defense, he likes the larger GM cars which are unappealing to me, but overall have been some of GMs better offerings. But to those of us who grew up in the 80's and 90's driving small domestic cars, which were completely outclassed by those from Toyota and Honda IMO.
Since college, I've owned two foreign cars and 3 others that were domestic names with powertrains from asian companies. They were all more rewarding than all of my pure domestics.
The jury is still out on my 07 Expedition. So far I've been extremely happy with it. We've been cranking the miles on it with several out of state trips during the last year. It's up to 45k and I bought with 20k 9 months ago. So far it has been reliable. We always take it because my wife and I along with the kids hate to take her 07 Grand Prix company car anywhere because it is a sorry excuse for a car. I don't have one nice word to say about it other than it is reliable and free and neither is enough to get me to drive anywhere unless I have to. We are actually counting down the days until it gets replaced this summer.
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Trying to sustain an unsustainable "high life style" is what got us into this mess in the first place.
In the spirit of sophisticated entertainment, I went to the movies on Sunday to see the new "Friday the Thirteenth". Matinee tickets are now up to $8.00 apiece at that theater! I swear that not that long ago, they were more like $6-6.50.
Now, $1.50 isn't going to break me, and isn't going to stop me from seeing Madea go to Jail, but that still represents a 23-33% increase, in the course of a year.
That's not the the high life style most people in the US are talking about. The one they're talking about is needing an SUV for each driver to drive 5 minutes to work every day, then eating 2 double quarter pounders with cheese and a super size fries for lunch (and a DIET coke). In some ways we ARE pretty gluttonous...and while that's fine when you can afford it, several years ago we started to not be able to afford it. however, rather than admitting that we had CEOs increasing their bonuses to pay for it, homeowners taking HELOCs to pay for it, etc etc, rather than acknowledging the reality that, just maybe, we don't have enough money coming in to pay for it and maybe we need to cut back somewhere.
Now people are finally admitting it, though some still don't like that fact, and some are still trying to avoid it (CEOs, Madoffs, anyone elected to office in Washington, etc). Time to get with the program...you don't NEED to carry 3 cellphones! Seriously, I see people doing it.
I also see their point.
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I say "Too bad" to that crappola. My GF just told her 18 year old son that he does not have a right to a cell-phone and his 250 text-messages, when he can't afford it. Cell-phone cancelled. The kid wrecked a car and now wants a loan for another one - we told him walk and get to work.
Everyone should be expected to have some pride in this life, and to support yourself (unless your totally disabled - but even Steven Hawking shows you can always make a living from a wheel chair).
My youngest son was the teen-ager from hell, chip on his shoulder with a "world owes me a favor" attitude. When he went away for his first year at college, I offered him my 7 yr old Honda CRV with 100K miles to drive. He says "I wouldn't be caught dead driving that boxy thing". I said, "OK, you can walk then". He came home for Chrstimas break begging me to let him take the CRV, smartest thing I ever did with him.
We get to pay for the bailouts, end of story, as the sheeple are too controlled to form a meaningful revolt.
They don't want to subsidize GM while other countries have subsidized their auto industry through the decades as they undercut ours due to our self-inflicted wounds.
If Congress cut, I'd believe the whole country needs to inhale and cut back. Congress is just waiting for the recovery so they can add on the cap and trade tax which they forgot to mention during the campaign as a tax. Everyone's energy bills will go up and that will hurt.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's fine with me. I've never heard a convincing argument in favor of subsidies.
Just because taxpayers in other countries allow their governments to pick their pockets to prop up failing companies doesn't mean that we should allow our government to do the same thing to us.
Look at our very own farm subsidy program, which enriches 1 per cent of us at great cost to the other 99 per cent. That should tell you everything that you need to know about government subsidies.
For example say Dell got a $100 subsidy for each computer they sell, because the foreign companies are subsidizing their computer companies. Now if I want to get into the computer business, and I can make the same computer for $50 less, but I get no subsidy, then I have been locked out of starting a business, as my computer will cost $50 more, rathe rthan $50 less.
That simple example applies to any industry. Subsidies help those in power at the opportunity expense of others AND also adds injury to insult, by taking our tax money to provide the subsidy.
That will just about pay for the $400 tax cut for 95% of working families. I figured about $450 per year more on the utility bills. Of course it will be bigger taxes on factories that are not at zero GHG emissions. How many auto factories put out ZERO GHG? The manufacturers that are not already going broke need to get out of the country quick while they have enough money to build in a less repressive country. I am sure that was some of the thinking on that new Ford factory in Brazil.
If you live in a cave and hunt with a bow and arrow for your food, there should be little change other than more company and fighting to keep the masses out of your cave.
PS
Get the cook book by Ted Nugent "Kill it and Grill it.
Makes for an uneven playing field. They give money to GM they should give an equal percentage to all automakers building cars in the USA. Then we are right back in the same situation GM going broke because they can no longer compete with the competition. Putting off the inevitable will not make it any easier for those losing their jobs.
Do I still live the high life?
I have a big car, a big house, a big truck, a big mortgage, a big yard (no food garden), TWO magazine subscriptions (not CR), and live well below my means. I could argue that the high life is living just within your means so your lifestyle is not at risk in a downturn or contributing to it. I don't agree that I should try to avoid the high life by living in a small, cramped house, shoved into a crowded neighborhood, within biking distance from my job, paying higher taxes, and sharing a small, cramped car with a tiny engine that would handle well on curvy roads that are a mere ten hour drive away.
If we can spend $8B MORE on earmarks, and $30B MORE on college financial aid, how about helping GM so one day they can offer internships and eventually good jobs to those college students? The transpalnts do very little development or counting of their money in the US.
I hope that can go the other way too, as in just because other countries allow their companies to pollute like crazy, have little to no safety regulations, and pay their workers a pittance doesn't mean that our government has to do the same for us.
While I agree in principle, the main question I would have is WHY you wouldn't get no subsidy. If you are an American company, you should be treated the same as other American companies.
I agree with you're trying to say here...up to a point. I don't think that any government should have a say in how much people are paid for their work.
Well, our brilliant farm subsidy program doesn't treat all farmers equally. Most of the money goes to grain farmers. You'll get nothing if you grow fruits or vegetables.
How does a tax break differ from a subsidy? They're just slightly different ways of picking my pocket.
Government doesn't create wealth. It just redistributes it to suit the whims of those in power. You & I as taxpayers foot the bill for these tax breaks.
There's really only one honest way for a company to get my money: make things that I'm willing to pay for. Tax breaks & subsidies amount to a state-sanctioned mugging. If a company can't survive without these, it should go out of business.
Our current Congress in the 2007 Energy bill mandated the use of CFL bulbs by 2012 I believe it is. Yet they cannot be made in the USA due to regulations regarding mercury. They have put 1000s of UNION employees out of work that were making incandescent bulbs. These are not a cheap product and most of the money is going to China that now produces all CFLs that I could find in the stores. So much for buying American. When our government forces US to buy Chinese goods. No talk of subsidizing those workers displaced by lame legislation.
Probably because anyone trying to startup a business is a "nobody" to the legislators. A startup does not have lobbyists, or wouldn't be recognized yet. Do you think that if I bought a former auto-plant, and declared "I'm in business and need help" that I would be given $4B or so? or $2,000 for every vehicle I build?
And yet they usually don't.
The population has somehow come to believe the government can do anything it wants as long as there are enough votes.
You sure you don't mean Congress instead of the population? :shades:
What if only GM and Chrylser go away? Are Ford owners suddenly going to realize that they should have been buying GM all along?
I understand you're a fan of Detroit, but I don't see import owners suddenly "seeing the light" about what they were missing. They've made their choice and it's something that Detroit hasn't been able to reverse.
And throwing more of our money at them to stave off Chapt 11 only have them wind up at the restructuring under Chapt 11 seems insane.
You are right about Asian service. Toyota really gouges on basics like oil changes. The whole time I owned the 2005 GMC PU I did not pay for a single service at the GMC dealer. They would send freebie coupons in the mail. Toyota which is right across the street from the GMC dealer charged $60 for an oil change with cheapo 30 weight dino oil. Wanted $70 more for synthetic. They were no better than GMC at fixing problems I have with this Sequoia.
The best service I have gotten over the years in San Diego was from Bob Stall Chevrolet and Drew Ford/VW/Hyundai. The local Honda and Lexus dealers are jerks.
Oh the domestic dealers will try to gouge you too, if you give them half a chance. I remember when my Intrepid was around the 25,000 mile mark, they tried to get me to come in for about $300 worth of crap. The main thing I wanted done was a tranny service. I think they tried to stick me for spark plugs (you know, the ones that are supposed to go 100K on the regular schedule, and 50K on the "severe"?), a coolant flush (for 5 year/100K mile coolant?!), and new belts (owner's manual calls for a 60,000 mile service interval), and a few other odds and ends.
In the end, I think I got my mechanic to service the tranny, at 30,000 miles, for around $100. New spark plugs came at 51,000 miles. I had the coolant and belts replaced at 86,000 miles. Even though it had the 5 year/100K coolant, the mechanic said that if you change it a little early (this was just shy of 4 years), it's really better for it. And then, you can get away with just doing the coolant. If you wait until 5 years, you really should replace the hoses, too.
The Toyota dealer my uncle bought his Corolla from wasn't so hot when it came to service. In fact, they even lost track of his car once, and couldn't find it! Nowadays, when he needs something done, he just takes it to my mechanic.
Oh, as for quality, I'd say his Corolla has been decent. Not rock-solid ultra-reliable, but still decent. It has about 170,000 miles on it, mostly highway, and the two biggest repairs I can think of were the catalytic converter and the water pump. The water pump went out in 2007. The catalytic converter is a two part unit. One part was replaced in 2007, and the other part just maybe a month ago.
On the Nissan front, my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima is pushing 280,000 miles. Other than having the tranny crap out at 35,000 miles, and replaced under warranty, the car has been pretty good. I don't know if they take it in for those high-priced 30K mile service intervals or not, though. Or does Nissan try to push that, the way Honda and Toyota seem to?
Obama, if you are listening. Make sure the best survive with guaranteed loans. Propping up losers will not make America stronger.
When I owned an '01 Nissan Pathfinder, I bought if new from a dealer that also sold Oldsmobile, Jeep, and Kia all at the same location. They treated me just like anyone who bought one of their other makes.
I had the Pathfinder for 4 years and maintenance was never an issue and I never paid anything outrageous for service or recommended service.
When I had a '00 Jetta TDI, the oil changes were a bit more, but it was a diesel that used synthetic oil. Back then, I paid $45 per oil change for synthetic, but that was every 10k miles so it equaled out. The only other maintenance item was the fuel filter that is a must to change at required intervals and that was like $40-50 every 20k miles. I only had the VW a little over a year and 35k miles and never paid for anything other than what I've mentioned and was treated very well.
Ironically, the only dealership I have been really put off by was Saturn. They were a real PIA dealing with warranty issues of severe oil consumption (qt every 250-500 miles on an engine with 60k) and a manual transmission the periodically would jump out of gear.
When I owned a Suburban it seemed it was always at the dealer and the bill was never under $500 and usually over $1,000. So it's not like just because it's domestic it automatically is cheap to maintain. When the trans died at 45k and GM told to bad it's out of warranty, the dealer wanted $3500. I about choked and found a reputable independent trans mechanic that rebuilt it for me for $1600 with updated components and a 3 year unlimited mile warranty. The trans was way better than new in how it shifted and it held up until I traded it in.
I cannot even imagine owning a vehicle with 280k miles on it. Let alone driving it. My beater 99 Ford Ranger is at 112k and needs a transmission overhaul. I will just nurse until I decide what to do. I just had it serviced for $93. I should probably sell it and buy a full size diesel Ford. I like the older models pre 1995. Ford may be the only domestic left to get parts from. That Ranger is the highest mileage vehicle I have ever owned.
Me either, by the time most cars get to 100k, rattles develop that drive me nuts, the suspension gets worn with the bushings etc wearing out. Even though many cars can go 200k, I can't deal with them that long. I generally drive them to 100k or so and replace.
Well, my Mom and stepdad carpool to work together. He drops her off, and then goes on to his job. They put about 125 miles per day on the car, mostly highway, so it's really not that stressful. I gotta admit, it scares me a bit that they're driving around in something that high-mileage...almost a role-reversal from the old days of when Mom would worry about me driving around in some old mastodon that was older than me! The car still looks good though, and even sounds fine. Well, truth be told, its engine always sounded kinda crude to me, even when new, but I think that's just because I'm used to the sound of a V-6 or V-8.
They bought a 2008 Altima about a year ago, but don't drive it much, choosing instead to keep running the '99. I think the dealer was only going to give them around $600 in trade, so they opted to keep it. They use the new one though, when they go on long trips. I think it might have about 9-10,000 miles on it now.
As for the dealership, the only time I ever took my Intrepid in was for warranty/TSB work, or a recall.
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Would YOU slack off if you were Toyonda right now? I don't think so.
He drove it for 2 years and never had a problem. I eventually sold it for $6K, not bad for a 10 yr old vehicle with 140K miles that cost $18K brand spanking new. Those suckers really held their value.
They do not have the Detroit mentality - where lip service is paid to quality until the wolf is at the door, and suddenly they find quality "religion."
It's a matter of corporate culture - which Ford, of all the domestics, has made the most progress in changing. Note that Ford's quality gains have therefore been more consistent across its lineup compared to GM and Chrysler, and have been trending upward for the past several years.
So I doubt that Toyota and Honda would slack off if GM and/or Chrysler vanished. It's not like those two companies were the toughest competitors in the American market anyway.
I'm a little confused, as was pf_flyer, by your original comment that if (perhaps when?) the D3 go away import buyers will come to realize their vehicles aren't as great as they thought.
Your comment could be read as since the D3 are gone, the "bad" vehicles are no longer being produced and because of this all the imports are going to drop down somewhat to just being average, everyday transportation. In other words, instead of them being above the curve or at the higher limit than the domestics, with the domestics gone they no longer have the lower-level product offerings to compete with so they drop down to the average? And if that's the case, then if the imports disappeared the domestics would rise up to above average?
Or were you basing your comment on Honda, Toyota, Hyundai slacking off after the D3 bite the dust?
Lastly, while I do agree that the imports do charge a lot and have a lot of scheduled maintenance how frequently are the vehicles in the shop in-between these maintenance intervals? While it may be cheaper to service a domestic, if you start adding up the number of times you have to take the domestic in for service you'd be surprised that it could be even more. The domestic dealers charge hella prices for service and play the "you need this serviced too" B.S. as well!!!! That's why I repair as much as I can myself and only take my vehicle into the shop when I absolutely have too.
Own one and then get back to us. You haven't so your assumptions are baseless.
That's how I was converted. I grew up in a 100% domestic family until an uncle of mine (who was only 7 years older than me) bought a new '87 Honda CRX SI. That car blew me away in terms of quality and being fun to drive. Then in college while I was still driving various domestics, my college buddies had Celica's, Accords, Preludes, Civics, MR2's etc, which were great to drive and reliable, where as my domestic alternatives were not.
In Lemko's defense, he likes the larger GM cars which are unappealing to me, but overall have been some of GMs better offerings. But to those of us who grew up in the 80's and 90's driving small domestic cars, which were completely outclassed by those from Toyota and Honda IMO.
Since college, I've owned two foreign cars and 3 others that were domestic names with powertrains from asian companies. They were all more rewarding than all of my pure domestics.
The jury is still out on my 07 Expedition. So far I've been extremely happy with it. We've been cranking the miles on it with several out of state trips during the last year. It's up to 45k and I bought with 20k 9 months ago. So far it has been reliable. We always take it because my wife and I along with the kids hate to take her 07 Grand Prix company car anywhere because it is a sorry excuse for a car. I don't have one nice word to say about it other than it is reliable and free and neither is enough to get me to drive anywhere unless I have to. We are actually counting down the days until it gets replaced this summer.