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Comments
I'll survive without Grand Caravan with Sienna or Odyssey, not gonna cry about Hemi V8s because I love V6 inline bi-turbo, but Jeep Wrangler will be a loss for me. I had a lot of fun driving one to the Green Sands beach on Big Island
Your not supposed to take your rental car down the South Point Rd..
It is nice down there. I love those cliffs along the ocean also. The Jeep Wrangler will get picked up by some company. Of all the vehicles built by GM and Chrysler, that & the Corvette are the only two that will be missed by me. All the rest have better counter parts by other manufacturers.
Volt will never see the light of a showroom.
General Motors and Chrysler might need “considerably” more than the $21.6 billion in additional government loans they’ve already requested
:sick:
Regards,
OW
I think that is the plan in DC these days. Keep throwing money at the problem and it will fix itself. Too bad the car Czar has not watched GM lose money most of the last 20 years on poor product and poor management and horrible deals made with the UAW.
I'll miss them but GM had taken most of the Saabness out of them anyway.
Hey, if we get the Saudis to buy up several billion in GM stock they could get us not only at the pump but the showroom as well.... :sick:
And the article goes on to state that there are 9 million people in Sweden. So this means that about 1 in 100 people in Sweden will buy one of their cars. So some in Sweden will never buy a Saab? Maybe the people of Sweden need to start buying Saabs? Simple solution.
Or with government regulations and the auto companies loading the vehicles up, have they priced vehicles out of reach of many. I don't think we need to go to the Tata Nano that I saw was launched today, but maybe some of these companies need to produce cars that cost somewhere between the current $25,000 sedan and the Tata Nano.
It's called the Ford Fiesta. :shades:
Actually, it was first called the Chevy Aveo, but now Ford is going to show GM how to do it right. Not that Hyundai (Accent/Elantra/Sonata) and Nissan (Versa/Cube/Sentra) haven't already.
That Cube looks like a real nice ride for the money...huge backseat too. Why couldn't GM or Chrysler come up with that? (Don't know how big Fiesta's back seat will be, so don't know if Ford did or not).
Chrysler in GM are black holes. Only new bond and UAW contracts as well as a new board of directors can save those companies. Buy Ford!
An the same subject, why is it so hard to put a socket on a hybrid. You would think at the very least these would be options on the current hybrids out now.
We dislike them too.
Who do we take care of? Foreign Banks. We gave them $120 Billion of TARP money.
We wouldn't want a foreign company to lose money in loaning to or investing in the US. Many of us do want the company that has 44 million more vehicles on America's roads than any other company to disappear though, and the sooner the better. After all, we do think ahead.
Oil companies have union workers. Generally they pay FAR MORE than union workers. Both to keep good people and to avoid the hassles a Union brings to a company. I am not sure what side you are on. When you point out how Union companies keep the stockholders from making a decent return, that tells me you think the Unions are the problem in the USA. A company like GM that has not made a decent profit in over 20 years should just close up shop and quit causing consumers grief with their substandard vehicles. I think that 9% should be about bare minimum profit for a well run company. 10-12% would be preferable. GM has not made 5% in recent history. Time to chop it up and sell it for cord wood.
A small business is the guy down the street making a living. A large corporate organization is some Havana smoking, Armani wearing, private jet flying snob who is looking to us to maintain his lifestyle when he doesn't do a good job.
Unfortunately, government seems to be fond of any sort of welfare...now we have it for both the bottom AND the top income brackets of our societies. Doesn't matter which party is in power either.
If cars were made by small businesses, we'd love them. Ford is trying to SHRINK, and we start loving them more. We love Honda because it's a smaller manufacturer. Mazda is popular, Subie, Mitsubishi...all smaller car companies. GM, Chrysler, Toyota, you see a lot more hate towards the auto megacompanies, and a lot of calls for them to shrink (Especially GM...too many brands!!).
If its anybodies fault, blame the arrogant greedy bastards on Wall St.
That scenario is a bunch of bulloney you're believing. That story is created by the very people who have so much to gain - the billions in loans. So if you don't think people will embellish a story for billions of $'s then you need to leave Disneyland.
GM and Chrysler have been headed towards BK for many years, well before the financial crisis of the last year.
As it stands, GM loses money on every car made. Bankruptcy may allow them to turn things over so that they can make profittable cars.
The argument of manufacturing jobs is a century old. Textile mills, steel mills, computer outsourcing. Fact is that new industries spawn and hire a new crop of workser.
Also as we are in a bad recession, I sincerely doubt that GM bankruptcy will make that much of a hickup. Also, if GM scales down, it leave a bigger market for Ford.
Define for me what happens to all the creditors when a company goes bankrupt?
ALL Accounts Payable (debts owed) are frozen at $0 so none of the suppliers get a $.00 from GM for all those parts, so with significantly reduced income at all these suppliers force them to layoff thousands and not pay there bills, etc., etc... a snowballing effect. Plus, when you consider over 75% of cars are built by suppliers and GM is mostly a final assembly shop, it gets even worse for the entire auto supply chain affecting businesses across the country... no bull... FACT!
Maybe if you owned a business you would understand what its like...
When the airlines went bankrupt, did Boeing go out of business?
Size of the company or industry does not make it eligible for a pass to perpetuity supported by non share holder taxpayers.
As for the Great Depression, the Great War, & the "Great Society"? Been there, done that.
That's what they've been getting...GM keeps deferring payments. In some cases, that's what they're STILL getting, to the point where the suppliers have had to tell GM "COD or nothing." Which GM is still trying to avoid paying.
Want to give a bailout? Give it to the suppliers. GM and Chrysler have GOTTEN bailouts, and are STILL trying to avoid giving that money to the suppliers.
You really want to give your tax money to someone who doesn't want to pay you for products you've ALREADY delivered?
solve our nation’s crisis.
There are about 40 million people over 50 years old in
the work force Pay them $2 million apiece – tax free –
with the following stipulations.
1] They leave their jobs and do not get another.
40 million job openings.
Unemployment fixed.
2] They each buy new American built cars.
40 million cars ordered.
Auto Industry fixed.
3] They either buy a house or pay off their mortgage.
Housing crisis fixed !.
In the news, Obama Auto Task Force Working Against Deadline, Public Anger (U.S. News)
"The task force faces a deadline of March 31 to decide whether the government will continue to provide funds to General Motors and Chrysler while the companies attempt to restructure."
That being said some piecemeal bailout will probably the strategy used.
Hasn't that been the American foreign policy dogma since 1945?
It would also cost $80000000000000.....would China really be dumb enough to make such a loan? :lemon:
It might solve some of the Big 2.3 problems too...all of the high wage oldsters would be gone from the payrolls. Maybe put some kind of pension stipulation in it too, ie: if you take the 2M, you forfeit the pension.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Jeep, truck, and minivan business might be able to stay afloat, but it would be a relatively small-time operation. I don't know if it would be enough to subsidize any passenger cars.
Your comparing apples to organes: Boeing makes over 80% of its planes vs. auto suppliers make 75%+ of cars, GM is mostly final assembly, very difference scenario, plus you and I don't buy planes, we buy cars. If GM went bankrupt, would you buy a car from them? Nope, nada, no f!@#$ing way! So their supply chain goes down the CH-11 path with them along with hundreds of thousands of jobs... and the economy!
Is it worth taking that risk? Nope!
And I probably will never by a GM; but I would be more likely to buy a GM that went through bankruptcy than one that continues to suck my tax dollars.
Unemployment is so hi, even another million job losses is just a blip on the radar screen. If the UAW cared about jobs so much, they would have readily cut their pensions and accepted pay decreases.
People aren't buying cars from GM NOW...that's the whole point of why they need a bailout. Because they aren't, and haven't been. I wouldn't, nope, nada, no stinking way right NOW. They already got a ton of my money, they should give me a car for FREE! :mad:
Maybe you missed that the government will support the suppliers. The feds are preparing to allow GM and/or Chrysler to go under.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/mar2009/bw20090319_960219.htm?chan- =top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis
If GM goes under, that will not affect the demand for cars. If people want to buy 9M vehicles this year, they will buy 9M vehicles no matter if GM exists or not. The suppliers will simply build more Ford, Chrysler and other parts for the people who will then buy more Fords and Chryslers. The failure of 1 manufacturer will make the others left stronger, allowing them to pickup business.
After AIG-gate, the administration is going to be really hesitant to hand out any bailout.
The parts manufacturers will get nervous, but if they have not been paid yet, what makes you think they will be paid now???? It is time to face the inevitable. The parts manufacturer should be the one to say "Sorry GM. Cash first if you want the parts".
Why Not? I will buy one if the product is good and the price is even better.
You have to learn to trust the product on it own. Which is what will happen with your vehicle in 3 years or less. No warranty. But you still keep it. No? Why? Because it is a good product. Make a good product, go to BK court, and I can bet my salary that sales will be better and profits even better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The idea does have possibilities. :P
And therein lies the flaw in the argument. If you buy an airline ticket from a bankrupt airline, that relationship lasts only the few hours you are on the flight. If you bought a TV from Circuit City last month, your relationship is ultimately with the TV mfr.
Now, a car, which is significantly more money than a TV or flight, is also a relationship that will last a long time as well. People will take more pause over that situation than they will the others.
Personally, I believe what we are seeing now is a Government sponsored "bankruptcy", only we aren't calling it that.
Also how long are factory warranties? Limited and for 3 years?
Honestly, the disservice by GM taking tax payers money probably steers customers away more than bankruptcy.