Real-World Trade-In Values

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

jwm40517 said:

Don't know how it works in Florida, but here in KY if you buy a vehicle in Dec it will likely cost you a lot of money. Here we do not pay property tax on a car in the year of purchase, just sales tax. So, if you buy a $50K car in December you will owe about $600 in property tax the next year. If you wait until Jan for the purchase you will have one less property tax bill over the life of the car. Other states probably have different rules.


Here in CT, the property tax goes down every year.  Different towns have different personal property tax rates.  It could cost you more money to own a car in a less affluent area.

qbrozen

So, really, it doesn't matter when you buy it, right? If it decreases each year, you'll have, let's say, 6 yrs of somewhat significant value no matter what. 

corvette

Makes it sound appealing to find, say, a leftover 2018 model, in January, 2019, then when you pay taxes on it in 2020, they’re based on the book value of a 2018 vehicle on January 1, 2020. 

qbrozen

I'd personally prefer to not suffer 2 yrs of depreciation in 1 yr just to save $100 on taxes.

jwm40517

Here the property tax is based on what you own on Jan 1 of each year, even if you sell it later in the year. If you buy in December you will always have one more year of taxes. That first year will always be more because the value is based on a month old car instead of a 13 month old car. But that's just our KY system, your results may vary.

fushigi

No property taxes on cars or most things in IL. Just around $100 a year for registration.

Of course our property taxes on housing are second highest in the country so what one hand gives, the other takes.

stickguy

yeah, I would be happy to spend $1,000 in personal property tax on my car, to save the $12,000/year property taxes on my house.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

So, really, it doesn't matter when you buy it, right? If it decreases each year, you'll have, let's say, 6 yrs of somewhat significant value no matter what. 

If you are replacing a car with another car, on the same day (in KY), then it doesn't matter. You are still paying tax once per year. But, if you have the opportunity to sell a car in late December, and pick up the next one after January 1st, you can save a year of property tax.

I did that once.. I bought a car from a dealer in Chicago on December 20th, with 30 day tags. The current car lease was up on January 4th, but I turned it in on December 30th to the dealer, and took the tags to the county clerk that day, to get it off the property tax rolls. Waited until the next week to register the car I bought on December 20th, and skated on property taxes for one vehicle (in 2004). Woo hooo!! I'm still counting that $350, every day.

We still have property taxes on our real estate... though, not as high as NJ.

Sandman6472

We get the tax savings when trading in a vehicle but pay a auto tag fee yearly, I usually do it for two years as there's no savings, they just double the amount. Rather not be bothered every year to be honest. When I went back in October, I got a new handicapped placard, the blue one, but also have a handicap plate on my vehicle since we don't always take my vehicle, I need the blue one also. The clerk there told me I've got two years left on the current tag, seems we get a new tag every ten years. The A3 and the Versa got new tags this year and makes sense as the Versa was bought in 2009 and was time for a new tag. I'll get mine in 2020 but not sure I'll still have the Golf at that time...highly doubtful!!

The Sandman

xwesx

stickguy said:

yeah, I would be happy to spend $1,000 in personal property tax on my car, to save the $12,000/year property taxes on my house.

In most cases, it is not "or" but "and."

xwesx

Our system is a semi-annual $100 vehicle tax (e.g., registration) for passenger cars. It is less for trailers, more for larger rigs. Happily, we now have a permanent tag for vehicles +8 years (model years, not actual years) old, so, if you buy the car new, most people only need to pay that tax five times, then pay a 'z' tag tax and you don't have to pay again for as long as you own it. But, new owner, new Z tag. And, even if you're just making a title change, such as adding or dropping an owner.... new Z tag!

They get you one way or another.

tjc78

stickguy said:

NJ taxes the heck out of you (especially if you own a house) but at least they don't screw you with personal property tax. Just pay your (ridiculous) 6.875% sales tax, and get your registration, and be good for years.

6.625% now!  Don’t spend that extra $$ in one place. 

28firefighter

10.3% sales tax here. 

Plus 1.3% transit tax on the sale price of your car each year at registration. It decreases based on book value each year after new. 

stickguy

good thing I can't afford to live in Washington anyway! Ouch.

Delaware is cheaper than NJ for cars too, so that is still looking good,

tjc78

stickguy said:

good thing I can't afford to live in Washington anyway! Ouch. Delaware is cheaper than NJ for cars too, so that is still looking good,

Yeah ... but it’s Delaware. 

28firefighter

No state income tax or local taxes though. 

xwesx

28firefighter said:

No state income tax or local taxes though. 

Like I said.... they get you one way or another!

stickguy

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:

good thing I can't afford to live in Washington anyway! Ouch.

Delaware is cheaper than NJ for cars too, so that is still looking good,

Yeah ... but it’s Delaware. 

you know it is bad when people from Joisey are throwing stones...

I could replicate my house, similar neighborhood and town, about the same price, and the property taxes would be 1/4 (or less) than I pay now. That is before saving on the other taxes too.

steine13

nyccarguy said:

@steine13 [I] completely understand what you are trying to do.  There are a lot of brand new cars out there that you can lease her for under $200 per month [..]

Well guys, what can I tell ya.

Many moons ago, a friend loaned me an allegedly humorous book about catholics in the U.S.
The one thing that stuck with me was the approved form of family planning, which was known as the 'rythm method' and involved a number of steps. The way I remember it, step # 11 was where you went out to buy a bassinet.

It appears that my used-car search has come to fruition. Step #11 is where I pick up a leased 2018 Chevy Cruze 'LT' hatchback 6MT later this week.
They are driving it in from somewhere near Cleveland, well over 200 miles away.

It is in my preferred color, 'cajun red tintcoat' -- or as my daughter calls it, "old man red." It appears not to be HER preferred color. Tough.
I think of it as the color known in the automotive field as 'burgandy' (TM).

First payment due at pickup, $200 a month even, 24 months, 20k mile lease.
@nyccarguy called it.

Mr_Shiftright

That's pretty good. You didn't get the diesel, though, I gather.

steine13

I did not get the Diesel.

Which BTW is a turbo Diesel.... I didn't even "want" the turbo gas engine, it's just all they have now -- I've got a 2.5 mile commute, I don't think that does any of these techy engines any favors.

I do like driving the 1.4t though. So long as one doesn't bog it, it has a nice fat torque band.
I have no idea as to its longevity, though.

tjc78

stickguy said:

stickguy said:

good thing I can't afford to live in Washington anyway! Ouch. Delaware is cheaper than NJ for cars too, so that is still looking good,

Yeah ... but it’s Delaware. 

you know it is bad when people from Joisey are throwing stones... I could replicate my house, similar neighborhood and town, about the same price, and the property taxes would be 1/4 (or less) than I pay now. That is before saving on the other taxes too.

I’m weird ... I like it in Jersey, except of course how expensive it can be 

stickguy

jersey is fine. If you got lots of money. I was looking at houses in Burlington county (was always cheaper in the past). A decent looking townhouse in Mt laurel, property taxes (not that you get actual property with it!) were still in the 8K range, on a place selling for low 3's. Nuts.

qbrozen

Oh, I love Jersey. But, like you, just not the expense of it. I have no idea how I'll survive on a teacher's salary. I will have to earn extra money elsewhere.

stickguy

sell cars? Flip cars?

stickguy

I am really looking forward to (well, dreaming) of moving to someplace cheaper enough to fast track ditching a mortgage and getting down to really cheap living! Considering more of my payment now is escrow instead of P&I, that isn't likely to be happening here!

steine13

>> in the 8K range, on a place selling for low 3's. Nuts.

Dunno from nuts, but in relatively inexpensive East Lansing, Mi, we're paying $5k a year on a house the city 'thinks' is worth $170k...

stickguy

taxes should be the same, regardless of house price, place to place for a comparable unit. The real problem is if you want a bigger place, and suddenly you are living in a nice place, not palatial, and blowing past 15,000/year.

28firefighter

I have dreams of cashing out the equity in our home in Seattle (already up 5% in 8 months of living here on top of the 40% gain on our first home we put into it) and paying cash for a home in Pittsburgh or Cleveland, living the debt free life. Except the car lease(s). 

stickguy

exactly what I would have done if I had pulled off the plan to move to NC to be by the princess. who screwed that up by getting a job up here instead of down there!

cdnpinhead

I won't trouble you with what we pay in AZ for property taxes, but if I did it could help explain the influx of CA ex-residents. That said, they do hit us fairly hard for vehicle license fees -- generally ~$450/year for the first year for cars in the $25 - 30K price range. It goes down significantly year over year, which works well for those of us who drive cars into the ground. My 10-year-old TSX is down to ~$100 this year.

Mr_Shiftright

steine13 said:

I did not get the Diesel.

Which BTW is a turbo Diesel.... I didn't even "want" the turbo gas engine, it's just all they have now -- I've got a 2.5 mile commute, I don't think that does any of these techy engines any favors.

I do like driving the 1.4t though. So long as one doesn't bog it, it has a nice fat torque band.
I have no idea as to its longevity, though.

It's a car I would consider owning as a diesel, since I drive a lot. Not many manual transmission diesels out there in 2018, if you exclude trucks.

Mr_Shiftright

An older gent in the neighborhood wants to sell his 2006 Prius, with only 66,000 miles. Nice shape, dealer serviced. What do you think he could get for it private party retail? I was going to suggest $6500 firm as a price that would sell the car reasonably quickly. I've seen one with 96K for $6999 from a dealer and one with 38,000 miles for $8800 from a dealer. KBB says $7250 for excellent, but I don't know--are these older Priuses still in demand?

corvette

Prolly so, given the high gas prices we've seen lately. Remember when nutcases were bidding up 3-cylinder Geo Metros during the Great Recession? I'd think about listing it at $8,999 and drop the price to $7,999 in a week if there is no interest.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....strong money, but if he isn't in a hurry, that's possible. Yes, you're right, the gas prices might elicit a bit of a panic, especially in California.

In a way, cars in this price range are harder to sell than $20,000 cars, because they are too cheap for financing and too $$$ for most working class people to write a check for it.

qbrozen

Which trim is the Prius.

They seem to maintain somewhat of a following. There is a crowd out there who replace the batteries themselves and take a bit of pride in keeping them going.

Sandman6472

Heard back about my D V case. Figure from appraiser is at $2500.00. Now, we sit and wait it seems. According to Mr. Shifty, accident shows up on CarFax and any decent car guy will notice the damage from just by looking or by using that paint gauge thingy but any layman like me or you, can't see much. I know it drives a bit different and both drivers side doors need a bit more effort to close properly without some dash light coming on but besides some little stuff, that's it. Nothing else I really like better, so staying the course for the moment. End of story! Now once I find "the one", then we'll see!!

The Sandman


(P.S. Still getting over my recent surgery so not in much mood to do about anything, sitting in my recliner suits me fine...just fine. Until the wife really pushes me to do something, gonna see how it goes on a day by day basis. If I could stop, I'd about do it right now. Have zero desire to do anything, honestly. Sleep when I need to, have some insomnia now as it's 3:31 am, eat when I need to, shower when necessary, sit in my recliner when I want to. My oldest's been the best for me as she says do just what I'm doing, for as long as I need to. But even this will get old so am just about ready to get back "to me, 100%"...whenever that'll be. But soon...really soon, the ole Sandman will re-emerge from this nightmare. Just not sure when that'll be quite yet!!)

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Which trim is the Prius.

They seem to maintain somewhat of a following. There is a crowd out there who replace the batteries themselves and take a bit of pride in keeping them going.

I'm not sure of the trim. I think I'll go look at it. Owner is 94 years old, so right in the middle of the demographic

My friend Patrick, who isn't even close to 94 years old, drives a Prius. His name for it is "Maytag".

Yeah, I have to say, the Prius is an incredibly reliable car and I've seen them rack up impressive miles.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Which trim is the Prius.

They seem to maintain somewhat of a following. There is a crowd out there who replace the batteries themselves and take a bit of pride in keeping them going.

I'm not sure of the trim. I think I'll go look at it. Owner is 94 years old, so right in the middle of the demographic

My friend Patrick, who isn't even close to 94 years old, drives a Prius. His name for it is "Maytag".

Yeah, I have to say, the Prius is an incredibly reliable car and I've seen them rack up impressive miles.

Typical Toyota. Early worries about the Prius when it first came out included reliability and durability. Even the early models were pretty much perfected before being released. Certainly pads the "legendary" reputation of Toyota's reliability.

Still, it is just an eco-box that gets good mileage.

Mr_Shiftright

Prius reliability was established by taxi companies.

tifighter

I'm surprised we haven't seen a new Prius V. The taxi business alone would seem to justify it. Locally or over in Europe, most cabs are the V.

jwm40517

What causes the batteries to wear out, time or miles or both? I can not recall seeing the cost to replace batteries in a Prius. Wonder how much?

qbrozen

time, discharge/recharge cycles, and environmental factors.
You can get reconditioned packs, I believe. Or test/replace certain cells. I know I've read different adventures of owners in the past, but really didn't make special note. you can google and find more info.

Mr_Shiftright

I think if Toyota does it, it's around (roughly) $2,500. You can buy "reconditioned" battery packs from independent rebuilders, but they generally are only warrantied for 50K--70K (something like that) for around $1,000.

g8orgrant

Any thoughts on how a NEW one year old model, which is probably a few weeks/months from being a two year old model, should be priced? On one hand, you probably lose access to the ability to lease it with any subvented lease deals, but you still get the full new car warranty and covered maintenance in this case. Two examples -

https://www.jaguarfreeport.com/inventory/2017-jaguar-xe-25t-prestige-rear-wheel-drive-4-door-sedan-sajae4bg5ha947517

https://www.jaguarlarchmont.com/new/Jaguar/2017-Jaguar-XE-a16e2bb50a0e0991112b3aa340b80bde.htm

Is it as simple as finding a comparable CPO value and applying an adjustment for the miles? Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

stickguy

Don’t know about price, but I love the first one (blue). All the right options. Just don’t want the 19” wheels!

qbrozen

g8orgrant said:

Any thoughts on how a NEW one year old model, which is probably a few weeks/months from being a two year old model, should be priced? On one hand, you probably lose access to the ability to lease it with any subvented lease deals, but you still get the full new car warranty and covered maintenance in this case. Two examples - https://www.jaguarfreeport.com/inventory/2017-jaguar-xe-25t-prestige-rear-wheel-drive-4-door-sedan-sajae4bg5ha947517 https://www.jaguarlarchmont.com/new/Jaguar/2017-Jaguar-XE-a16e2bb50a0e0991112b3aa340b80bde.htm Is it as simple as finding a comparable CPO value and applying an adjustment for the miles? Any other thoughts? Thanks!

I always treat them as low-mileage used cars, personally, because that's exactly how it would be treated at trade time.

The most expensive one at auction had 3700 miles and hit $31,400. So $34k, maybe $34.5k seems reasonable to me.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree with Q--treat them as very low mileage used cars.

Let's say the dealer received that car in late 2016, in October. So it sits in his inventory until June 2018. No matter how you cut it, it has depreciated 19-20 months worth.

So in my opinion, if you buy that car, even heavily discounted off MSRP as it is, at $34K, and you total it the next day, the insurance is going to offer you about $28K--$29K. If you fight, you might get $31K.

g8orgrant

Thanks guys. One follow up to Q's response - when you said "the most expensive one at auction", are you saying the more expensive of the two examples I provided, or are you saying that across all the auction results, the most expensive of these models hit $31,400?

stickguy

OK experts, what is a reasonable price for this, and what are they fetching at trade/auction?

https://www.bmwmainline.com/certified/BMW/2017-BMW-2+Series-07feec180a0d04fe1b7fb243b2dbc182.htm