Real-World Trade-In Values

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

Already a very strong price. Manual I'm sure is holding it back, but the auction numbers don't seem to reflect that. Would hit somewhere in the mid $25k range at the block.

WOW! Over 70% of original MSRP at the auction? Let's say they come $400 off their asking price that's close to 77% of it's original sticker price after 4 years and almost 50K miles.

qbrozen

You think they'd lease well

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

You think they'd lease well

Chrysler Capital sets very strong residuals for them, especially the Sport S models. The Money factors are on the high side, so they don't lease particularly well. I'm very curious to see how the new JLU Wranglers Drive.

100chuck

2010 Taurus SHO

I think I'm ready to move on from my Taurus SHO details below:
Located Ypsilanti Michigan
Red exterior, black interior, car came loaded with every available options 66,000 miles, car is in good shape inside and out except for a few problems.
The bad: rear window shade doesn't work, sun roof is broken thankfully in the closed position, two accidents, first accident I hit a deer, second accident car merged into my lane. VIN:1FAHP2KT2AG130488
I was wondering should I fix the sunroof and what would be the trade-in and private party values

Thanks

DATE REPORTING ENTITY DETAILS
11-19-2014 County :Washtenaw
State :MI
Vehicle Description : 2010 Ford Taurus
Vehicle Type: Passenger Car, Suv, Van
Vehicle Maneuver: Going Straight Ahead
Initial Impact: Front, Center
Vehicle Parked?: No
Struck Fixed Object?: No
Vehicle Struck Animal?: Yes
Most Damaged Area: Front, Center
Damage Severity: Minor Damage
Vehicle Fire?: No
Occupant Extricated?: No
Driver Airbag Status: Not Deployed
Pass. Airbag Deployed?: No
06-18-2016 County :Washtenaw
State :MI

Vehicle Description : 2010 Ford Taurus
Vehicle Type: Passenger Car, Suv, Van
Vehicle Maneuver: Turning Left
Initial Impact: Front, Right
Vehicle Parked?: No
Struck Fixed Object?: No
Most Damaged Area: Front, Right
Damage Severity: Minor Damage
Vehicle Fire?: No
Occupant Extricated?: No
Driver Airbag Status: Not Deployed
Pass. Airbag Deployed?: No

qbrozen

Was the car fully repaired? What was replaced/painted?

nyccarguy

I’ll make the popcorn 

qbrozen

Well, a nearly 9-yr-old Ford sedan means it isn't exactly valuable anyway. Even in nice shape, its a $7500-$8k trade. Assuming the repairs went well, we're still going to knock it down to $6500. Take off another $500 for the moonroof (assuming they test it). So $6k'ish.

On PP, it is a low mileage SHO. I'd throw a $9995 sign on it and maybe let someone beat me down to $8500 if it sits too long.

100chuck

qbrozen said:

Was the car fully repaired? What was replaced/painted?

Yes the car was fully repaired after both accidents
Front bumper, grill, windshield, transmission condenser
passenger side front panel, front wheel, and headlight assembly

qbrozen

Yikes! Can't believe the carfax calls that "minor."

Really tough for me to judge without "putting my hands on it." Guess I'll stick with my number above, but could be lower depending on the quality of work.

100chuck

qbrozen said:

Yikes! Can't believe the carfax calls that "minor."

Really tough for me to judge without "putting my hands on it." Guess I'll stick with my number above, but could be lower depending on the quality of work.

Well Bambi bounced off the bumper and hit the windshield causing it to crack. I was thinking about $6500 for trade-in until the sun-roof decided to jam last Thursday. Thanks for the info

nyccarguy

100chuck said:

Yikes! Can't believe the carfax calls that "minor."

Really tough for me to judge without "putting my hands on it." Guess I'll stick with my number above, but could be lower depending on the quality of work.

Well Bambi bounced off the bumper and hit the windshield causing it to crack. I was thinking about $6500 for trade-in until the sun-roof decided to jam last Thursday. Thanks for the info

You know, if the car is real clean they might not check the sunroof.

jpp75

Hey q, helped a friend this morning who is looking at a new car (XC40 or EPace).

What's an average value for the following:

2015 Mini S; John Cooper works edition; AWD; automatic; 2 doors; 20k miles; decent/good condition and no accident history.

Edit: Located in Denver

Thanks!

Sandman6472

Q or Shifty, wondering if the accident has hit my Carfax yet. Can't get to the Vin # quite yet as I can't even walk into the garage. Give me a few days and will have it for ya. Keeping it at this point as too much going on to test drive anything. And with all these bills coming in, best to keep my spending to a minimum. And still, have no clue as to what to even buy. A Hyundai/Kia hybrid is looking to be a smart move but a 328i is my dream vehicle. But keeping the Golf is the smart move going forward and since I own it, it'll stay backed into the garage for the time being. No one drives it but me which is good.

The Sandman

Did you post this VIN before? I don't remember but if you did, maybe we could find it.

stickguy

I got passed a few days ago by a mini convert. Plate was “fastjcw”. Yes it was a John cooper works model.

qbrozen

jpp5862 said:

Hey q, helped a friend this morning who is looking at a new car (XC40 or EPace). What's an average value for the following: 2015 Mini S; John Cooper works edition; AWD; automatic; 2 doors; 20k miles; decent/good condition and no accident history. Edit: Located in Denver Thanks!

The made an automatic JCW? Seems counterproductive.

AWD? Now I'm really confused. Is this a Paceman? And, while we're at it, what color?

explorerx4

Those sunroofs have software to control them. Maybe they can reset it.

steine13

Tales from the crypt.

Well maybe not the crypt, but you know what I mean: The nether regions of the market.
tl;dr: It's still really bad down there, economic recovery notwithstanding.

Kid & I went to look at a '12 Fiesta/hatch/stick/144k at a dealership on Thursday. Asking $3,900, Q pegged it at $1,500-$2. Good to drive, 5'0 daughter loved the seating position, but it was a rat. Trans whined in 1st and 5th, bad smoker's car, fan only works on high ($10 reostat, seriously?), radio doesnt work at all. no thanks but an educational experience.

Yesterday it was time for an '11 Fiesta/sedan/stick/177k from the original owner. Asking $4(!) but recently serviced with timing belt and water pump. Plastic cracked in front, dent in trunk lid from backing into his other car a bit, plastic not quite lining up. Otherwise, fantastic. Tight, drives great, has cruise, gear whine in 5th is there but you have to listen for it, felt like 44k miles less than the first car, not 33k more. Both cars have camshafts that look not only clean but NEW, I guess that's what 12k synth oil changes will do. No sign of body work -- never mind it could use a little.

Both cars have rust under the hood and other places from the 4-month-a-year salt batch. Highway miles are great for the engine, but dog miles for the rest of the car.

The owner makes it a selling point that he just had replaced the windshield -- I asked him why that should matter to me, I didn't crack the old one, well the old one was a little hazy when you drove into the sun. I reckon if you sand it against kicked-up dirt on Michigan's highways for nearly 200k, that happens. Crypt, indeed.

We talked price, I offered him $3 pending a safety inspection -- my mechanic is a couple miles away -- but no nickel-and-diming. He said he had to sleep on it; his truck was old and he didn't mind the spare car. OK then. Oh yeah: He's around sixty, pleasant to deal with, an engineer by trade(*).

I think he did me a favor, because I will rescind my offer. For $3, there are not many better choices -- well except maybe $2,850 asking for the '98 Lexus I posted a few days ago -- but for a little over $5, I'm looking at half the miles and fewer years. I really like this little car, and my daughter does too, and it's one I feel confident buying without an inspection if I have to. Very simple, VIN stickers everywhere, valve train visible, and what else is there?

Anyway, folks, that's what it's like down there. It's expensive to be poor. I will have to adjust my predilections, I reckon. But I think I found my new go-to model.

(*) Your free quip of the day, courtesy of one of our theorists: "Engineers and dogs are trained. Physicists are educated." I didn't try that on my new friend.

nyccarguy

@steine13 - I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and completely understand what you are trying to do.  There are a lot of brand new cars out there that you can lease her for under $200 per month, especially since you are looking for a base model with a stick.  A new Civic LX.  Sure it will cost more than one of these $4K crap boxes.  You know these cars are going to have to have some money put into them to keep them roadworthy.

sda

steine13..I am a bit confused. Is it the Lexus that you are going to make a offer on or are you in search of a different Fiesta that you haven't found yet?

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

@steine13 - I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and completely understand what you are trying to do.  There are a lot of brand new cars out there that you can lease her for under $200 per month, especially since you are looking for a base model with a stick.  A new Civic LX.  Sure it will cost more than one of these $4K crap boxes.  You know these cars are going to have to have some money put into them to keep them roadworthy.

I gotta agree with this. One of those $150/mo Encores or some such thing. That way you know you have brand new tires, brakes, etc, etc. No worries at all. So it is a fixed price. Buy a $3k car and you are simply gambling. Could be $3k down the drain and you have to start over again.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

@steine13 - I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and completely understand what you are trying to do.  There are a lot of brand new cars out there that you can lease her for under $200 per month, especially since you are looking for a base model with a stick.  A new Civic LX.  Sure it will cost more than one of these $4K crap boxes.  You know these cars are going to have to have some money put into them to keep them roadworthy.

I gotta agree with this. One of those $150/mo Encores or some such thing. That way you know you have brand new tires, brakes, etc, etc. No worries at all. So it is a fixed price. Buy a $3k car and you are simply gambling. Could be $3k down the drain and you have to start over again.

I would know. I’m currently driving one. 

Mr_Shiftright

Being somewhat of an authority on crap-boxes, , I have come to understand that there are 3 kinds of crap-boxes:

1. The kind your friend bought for $3,000, and who claims "it runs great" and "no problems". But when you go for a ride with him, the interior smells like gasoline, one wiper blade doesn't work, the radio crackles from blown speakers, there are ominous clunks when braking, the passenger seat doesn't retract, and the left rear power window doesn't work, The key fob is lost so you use the key to open the doors. The left rear tail light is cracked and taped over. Something is dripping onto the ground. You smell coolant somewhere.

2. The kind you buy and it seems to run pretty well (probably Japanese or old domestic) but it always wants something, seemingly once a week. Nothing truly major, but each "something" requires an agonizing decision of whether its better to "fix it or live with it"? And, of course, you don't really want to take it on any kind of long trip. It's a grocery getter. You wouldn't take it to a job interview and your wife or girlfriend hates it.

3. The kind you regret buying a few days after you made the purchase. Things you weren't told about come to light. You didn't notice the AC compressor belt was disconnected. That little noise in the muffler is actually the catalytic leaking. The CEL suddenly turns on. One tires is nearly flat. The back doors don't open from the inside. There are annoying rattles you didn't hear the other day. It seems to burn oil. The timing chain rattles when cold.
This really is a crap-car.

kyfdx

He said he only wanted a car for the summer. Hoping to sell then, for $1000 loss, max. That leaves out a cheap lease.

28firefighter

@Mr_Shiftright I’m struggling to fit the Viggen into this. Mechanically it’s in great shape, the body isn’t much of a looker, and my wife loves it. She rode in it for the first time last night and promptly fell asleep. Said they were the most comfortable seats in a car she’s ever experienced. 

Mr_Shiftright

Just ride that train as long as it rolls. You could be lucky after all. I have heard of people falling of a roof and landing on a passing flatbed truck carrying mattresses.

So you could be ok here. I admire a man who takes a calculated risk.

steine13

>> only wanted a car for the summer

The reading comprehension prize clearly goes to kyfdx.

But the rest of y'alls are correct. This is looking more and more like a fool's errand. I'm gonna talk to a buddy of mine about parking my van in his pole barn over the winter.

That's the issue in this climate when you have one garage and one extra parking spot -- when we have a 3rd car it is in the way and more trouble than it's worth.

Regarding the Lexus, I was just amused that the dealer is pricing it $650 lower to start with than the owner in his craigslist ad. I'd totally love to get it but I'd play with it for three weeks and then get bored and complain about the size and the gas mileage... most of my trips are under ten minutes... heck half my trips are by bicycle

jpp75

qbrozen said:

jpp5862 said:

Hey q, helped a friend this morning who is looking at a new car (XC40 or EPace).

What's an average value for the following:

2015 Mini S; John Cooper works edition; AWD; automatic; 2 doors; 20k miles; decent/good condition and no accident history.

Edit: Located in Denver

Thanks!

The made an automatic JCW? Seems counterproductive.

AWD? Now I'm really confused. Is this a Paceman? And, while we're at it, what color?

I admit I'm not well versed in all the Mini combinations but it's definitely AWD, automatic and JCW. It's gray with a darker interior but the seats are a light gray/plaid combo. After googling a little I do think it's a Paceman.

explorerx4

@steine13,
Since you have a new driver, getting something older and cheap may not be the worst thing.
My kids had some 1st year driving issues, but they were fine after that.

qbrozen

jpp5862 said:

jpp5862 said:

Hey q, helped a friend this morning who is looking at a new car (XC40 or EPace). What's an average value for the following: 2015 Mini S; John Cooper works edition; AWD; automatic; 2 doors; 20k miles; decent/good condition and no accident history. Edit: Located in Denver Thanks!

The made an automatic JCW? Seems counterproductive.

AWD? Now I'm really confused. Is this a Paceman? And, while we're at it, what color?

I admit I'm not well versed in all the Mini combinations but it's definitely AWD, automatic and JCW. It's gray with a darker interior but the seats are a light gray/plaid combo. After googling a little I do think it's a Paceman.

Unfortunately, those are too rare for me to price. Last one to go through Manheim was a year ago.

A regular ole S paceman AWD would be about $16k. Now, that is right about the same as a plain hardtop Mini. A JCW of that is in the mid $19k range. So I suppose it is reasonable to say the paceman JCW should also be in the 19s. But YMMV.

28firefighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

Just ride that train as long as it rolls. You could be lucky after all. I have heard of people falling of a roof and landing on a passing flatbed truck carrying mattresses. So you could be ok here. I admire a man who takes a calculated risk.

“Calculated”

Mr_Shiftright

You know.....the "odds". Some used cars have better odds than others.

On a Saab like yours, you could get lucky.

If it were a Mini Cooper with a CVT transmission, a Land Rover Freelander, a Cadillac Catera, or a Mazda RX-8, you're pretty much doomed.

steine13

explorerx4 said:

@steine13,
Since you have a new driver, getting something older and cheap may not be the worst thing.
My kids had some 1st year driving issues, but they were fine after that.

This particular "new driver" has had her license for three years, has had her own brand-new car for some of that time ... not really hers, but hers to use ... and shared one with me the other times. At least they were sticks.

Now she has a summer job, I'd like to inject some reality with something well used. But it's not working.

Thanks for the support, guys. Times sure have changed since I was a student.

explorerx4

@steine13,
I forgot how early you can get a permit in Michigan.

steine13

Ya, the learner's permit starts at 14 and 9 months!

Michaell

jpp5862 said:

jpp5862 said:

Hey q, helped a friend this morning who is looking at a new car (XC40 or EPace). What's an average value for the following: 2015 Mini S; John Cooper works edition; AWD; automatic; 2 doors; 20k miles; decent/good condition and no accident history. Edit: Located in Denver Thanks!

The made an automatic JCW? Seems counterproductive.

AWD? Now I'm really confused. Is this a Paceman? And, while we're at it, what color?

I admit I'm not well versed in all the Mini combinations but it's definitely AWD, automatic and JCW. It's gray with a darker interior but the seats are a light gray/plaid combo. After googling a little I do think it's a Paceman.

Paceman is like a Cooper inflated to 120 PSI

cdnpinhead

All the new Minis look like they've been inflated to 120 psi, at least to me.

jpp75

qbrozen said:

Unfortunately, those are too rare for me to price. Last one to go through Manheim was a year ago.

A regular ole S paceman AWD would be about $16k. Now, that is right about the same as a plain hardtop Mini. A JCW of that is in the mid $19k range. So I suppose it is reasonable to say the paceman JCW should also be in the 19s. But YMMV.

Thanks q! Appreciate the info, I suspected around $19. If he moves forward I'll let you know what he gets.

kyfdx

steine13 said:

Ya, the learner's permit starts at 14 and 9 months!

That is really scary

Mr_Shiftright

Kid needs a Hellcat.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Kid needs a Hellcat.

Hellcat Widebody!

xwesx

100chuck said:

Well Bambi bounced off the bumper and hit the windshield causing it to crack. I was thinking about $6500 for trade-in until the sun-roof decided to jam last Thursday. Thanks for the info

Argh! The timing!!!!

xwesx

steine13 said:

Ya, the learner's permit starts at 14 and 9 months!

Funniest thing.... Yesterday, my wife was talking with my son about things he might want to do this summer. He pauses for a minute or so, at first contemplative, and then clearly just afraid to speak his mind. She finally coaxed him into voicing his thoughts, and he says, "Well, I would really like to drive." !?!

This is the same kid that is usually lost in some circuit board or leisure-reading Fine Homebuilding and Make! magazines. I thought for sure that I would have to coax him into learning to drive before he flies the coop in a few years, not jumping headlong into the process at fourteen.

In Alaska, children can test for the learner's permit at fourteen and provisional license at sixteen. The provisional license has some restrictions, IIRC, such as times of day and passengers, etc. I don't recall all the details. Anyhow, picking up a driver manual from DMV is on my list of things to do this week.

He is still three weeks away from the 'big' 1-4.

But, now I have to get serious about making sure the van is up to the task of helping a new driver learn how to actually drive a vehicle. I'll leave the cheating of modern vehicles to later in the game (once he knows how to drive).

steine13

You guys are funny. I'll show her these. Hellcat!

FWIW, the MI graduated license system is GREAT. Beyond what the state does, there was some cheesy slip she got after, like, three hours of classroom instructions and a couple of driving lessons. It came before the official graduated license and I think it was a local deal. The only thing "official" about it was the instructor's signature.

It had instructions for the parents: Stay in neighborhoods, go slow, avoid peak traffic times, stay off the freeways, but practice driving. I thought it made sense.

What really made me think is when Sophie was ten or so, I showed her how to ride a bicycle in traffic. That made me realize how much goes into just a slow ride through the neighborhood. Who has the right of way? Where do you have to look for trouble? What happens when THAT guy doesn't see you? There is so much we do in traffic without thinking about it that's not obvious.

Another one was four-way stops -- it had not occurred to me how even a half second of hesitation gets everyone confused. So I told her, your behavior is your communication. Show them what you're going to do. We have four uneventful years now; three on her own. I'm convinced that biking to school from 7th grade onward made a big difference. A stick helps, too. Try texting with that.

roadburner

I know I sound like a broken record, but my advice is to send your child to streetsurvival.org/ at a minimum.
If you can afford it, send them to a 1 or 2 day teen driving school- one that actually teaches them how to drive. A good list of such schools can be found here. We sent our son to the 2 Day Teen School at the BMW Performance Center. It was worth every penny.

xwesx

roadburner said:

I know I sound like a broken record, but my advice is to send your child to streetsurvival.org/ at a minimum.
If you can afford it, send them to a 1 or 2 day teen driving school- one that actually teaches them how to drive. A good list of such schools can be found here. We sent our son to the 2 Day Teen School at the BMW Performance Center. It was worth every penny.

Great advice, though. Even with the best of parental instruction, teens often learn much more from instructors who are *not* their parents, and different perspectives can open up a whole world of understanding for them.

chrisk327

What was the dollar amount of the damage?

The insurance company paid $8000. This was mainly due to how new it was and that it was all new parts directly from Subaru. There were no junkyard or aftermarket parts at the time. Also the LED headlights were close to $2K of that. Needed primarily a hood, bumper, headlights and the fenders. It sounds a bit worse than it was and i have pictures. It was a 20-25mph accident where someone ran a stop sign on me and I hit them broadside. Obviously I can't do much about the carfax now.


Depending on how much you get for the car, it looks like you'll suffer somewhere between a $1,000 and $6,000 loss due to diminished value. That amount you should have gone after from the insurance company (usually the 3rd parties as it was their fault).

I'd hope in a newer car that junkyard or aftermarket parts were not used. That would defeat the purpose of a repair in the first place.

andres3 said:

chrisk327 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

chrisk327 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

chrisk327 said:

I was wondering what the real world value is of my car.
2016 WRX STi base model. 20K miles. WR Blue.
it has an accident on the car fax noting frame damage. The accident was a front end accident, fully repaired with new subaru parts had literally 1 hr on the bill for frame pulling for the radiator support.

Hmmm...well a radiator support isn't frame damage, so there might have been more to it, or the data was entered wrong. Do you have a VIN you can post? We'll take a look at it.

Hi, the Vin is below.

JF1VA2M65G9810636

Thanks
Chris

Okay Thanks. The CARFAX report is pretty demonstrative on the damage. It says:

Damage reported after accident
Structural damage reported
Damage to front
Damage to left front
Damage to right front

Perhaps Q can do the math on this one, but given how relatively new it is, it's going to scare a lot of buyers away.

If you have a detailed repair order that can clarify matters for the buyer, that might lessen the value hit somewhat--but I suspect the deduct is going to be substantial here.

What was the dollar amount of the damage?

The insurance company paid $8000. This was mainly due to how new it was and that it was all new parts directly from Subaru. There were no junkyard or aftermarket parts at the time. Also the LED headlights were close to $2K of that. Needed primarily a hood, bumper, headlights and the fenders. It sounds a bit worse than it was and i have pictures. It was a 20-25mph accident where someone ran a stop sign on me and I hit them broadside. Obviously I can't do much about the carfax now.

Depending on how much you get for the car, it looks like you'll suffer somewhere between a $1,000 and $6,000 loss due to diminished value. That amount you should have gone after from the insurance company (usually the 3rd parties as it was their fault).

I'd hope in a newer car that junkyard or aftermarket parts were not used. That would defeat the purpose of a repair in the first place.

yeah I get that. I tried pursuing diminished value at the time of the accident, I just hit walls with the insurance company and got nowhere. I dropped it finally, the next step was small claims. I was just tired getting the car repaired, dealing with the kids, back and forth on the comparative negligence, do I get 10% of the fault, 15%, 20%, I settled on 15%.

chrisk327

nyccarguy said:

chrisk327 said:

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

chrisk327 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

chrisk327 said:

I was wondering what the real world value is of my car.
2016 WRX STi base model. 20K miles. WR Blue.
it has an accident on the car fax noting frame damage. The accident was a front end accident, fully repaired with new subaru parts had literally 1 hr on the bill for frame pulling for the radiator support.

Hmmm...well a radiator support isn't frame damage, so there might have been more to it, or the data was entered wrong. Do you have a VIN you can post? We'll take a look at it.

Hi, the Vin is below.

JF1VA2M65G9810636

Thanks
Chris

Okay Thanks. The CARFAX report is pretty demonstrative on the damage. It says:

Damage reported after accident
Structural damage reported
Damage to front
Damage to left front
Damage to right front

Perhaps Q can do the math on this one, but given how relatively new it is, it's going to scare a lot of buyers away.

If you have a detailed repair order that can clarify matters for the buyer, that might lessen the value hit somewhat--but I suspect the deduct is going to be substantial here.

What was the dollar amount of the damage?

Oh boy. Well... this is kind of a gut evaluation. If we're talking trade-in, even if repaired perfectly, I'm gonna say $21k-$22k. Now, if you sell it yourself, due to the desirability by young men of little means, I think it wouldn't get hurt SO bad because they'd be happy to save a couple grand (remember, this is just my gut talking), so I'd try pricing it at $27,495 or $27,995 and take the first $26k offer. 

Point of reference, fair retail for a clean one would be $30k.

Thanks. I was kind of hoping that the trade in value would be around the $26K you're tell me I should take, but I do understand the situation here.

How much do you owe on it?  How come you want to ditch it?  Glad you didn’t get hurt.

I don't owe a lot, I put a lot down, I owned my car outright before this. I want the money out of the car to roll into the next car. I wnt to ditch it b/c well, its behaves like an STI, and even though I thought it was OK and cool as a daily, I'm growing tired of it. Its got a very firm suspension, its fun to wring out when you want to have fun, but in the daily grind its peaky and a pain in traffic. It is a tad on the small side, I could really go a size up. All of these complaints are things that are inherent in the car, but I "had" to have the STI rather than an automatic WRX, so here we are.

I basically want something more comfortable, a bit more room, automatic.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Being somewhat of an authority on crap-boxes, , I have come to understand that there are 3 kinds of crap-boxes:

1. The kind your friend bought for $3,000, and who claims "it runs great" and "no problems". But when you go for a ride with him, the interior smells like gasoline, one wiper blade doesn't work, the radio crackles from blown speakers, there are ominous clunks when braking, the passenger seat doesn't retract, and the left rear power window doesn't work, The key fob is lost so you use the key to open the doors. The left rear tail light is cracked and taped over. Something is dripping onto the ground. You smell coolant somewhere.

2. The kind you buy and it seems to run pretty well (probably Japanese or old domestic) but it always wants something, seemingly once a week. Nothing truly major, but each "something" requires an agonizing decision of whether its better to "fix it or live with it"? And, of course, you don't really want to take it on any kind of long trip. It's a grocery getter. You wouldn't take it to a job interview and your wife or girlfriend hates it.

3. The kind you regret buying a few days after you made the purchase. Things you weren't told about come to light. You didn't notice the AC compressor belt was disconnected. That little noise in the muffler is actually the catalytic leaking. The CEL suddenly turns on. One tires is nearly flat. The back doors don't open from the inside. There are annoying rattles you didn't hear the other day. It seems to burn oil. The timing chain rattles when cold.
This really is a crap-car.

In 2002 dollars, I was able to avoid a crap box by spending $3,500 plus taxes and fees, by buying from a used car dealer, sticking to Honda, and going with high miles (166K). Also, he had receipts for a few things showing he put some effort into reconditioning the car wherever it had some faults.

andres3

steine13 said:

Tales from the crypt.

Well maybe not the crypt, but you know what I mean: The nether regions of the market.
tl;dr: It's still really bad down there, economic recovery notwithstanding.

Kid & I went to look at a '12 Fiesta/hatch/stick/144k at a dealership on Thursday. Asking $3,900, Q pegged it at $1,500-$2. Good to drive, 5'0 daughter loved the seating position, but it was a rat. Trans whined in 1st and 5th, bad smoker's car, fan only works on high ($10 reostat, seriously?), radio doesnt work at all. no thanks but an educational experience.

Yesterday it was time for an '11 Fiesta/sedan/stick/177k from the original owner. Asking $4(!) but recently serviced with timing belt and water pump. Plastic cracked in front, dent in trunk lid from backing into his other car a bit, plastic not quite lining up. Otherwise, fantastic. Tight, drives great, has cruise, gear whine in 5th is there but you have to listen for it, felt like 44k miles less than the first car, not 33k more. Both cars have camshafts that look not only clean but NEW, I guess that's what 12k synth oil changes will do. No sign of body work -- never mind it could use a little.

Both cars have rust under the hood and other places from the 4-month-a-year salt batch. Highway miles are great for the engine, but dog miles for the rest of the car.

The owner makes it a selling point that he just had replaced the windshield -- I asked him why that should matter to me, I didn't crack the old one, well the old one was a little hazy when you drove into the sun. I reckon if you sand it against kicked-up dirt on Michigan's highways for nearly 200k, that happens. Crypt, indeed.

We talked price, I offered him $3 pending a safety inspection -- my mechanic is a couple miles away -- but no nickel-and-diming. He said he had to sleep on it; his truck was old and he didn't mind the spare car. OK then. Oh yeah: He's around sixty, pleasant to deal with, an engineer by trade(*).

I think he did me a favor, because I will rescind my offer. For $3, there are not many better choices -- well except maybe $2,850 asking for the '98 Lexus I posted a few days ago -- but for a little over $5, I'm looking at half the miles and fewer years. I really like this little car, and my daughter does too, and it's one I feel confident buying without an inspection if I have to. Very simple, VIN stickers everywhere, valve train visible, and what else is there?

Anyway, folks, that's what it's like down there. It's expensive to be poor. I will have to adjust my predilections, I reckon. But I think I found my new go-to model.

(*) Your free quip of the day, courtesy of one of our theorists: "Engineers and dogs are trained. Physicists are educated." I didn't try that on my new friend.

He's over-asking at $4K, you make a strong offer of $3K, and he wants to sleep on it? Crazy, if you ask me. Unless it just went on sale within the last 36 hours.

andres3

steine13 said:

Ya, the learner's permit starts at 14 and 9 months!

Actually, Michigan is an odd State, they have educated law enforcement people in power, particularly in the State Highway Patrol force, that advocate for things like smart speed limits based on safety, science, and statistics, rather than myths, revenue, and fear-mongering.

They are advanced and 1st world, which unfortunately, I can't say the same of most States in the USA, at least when it comes to traffic laws and enforcement.

One of those "advanced" forms of knowledge comes from understanding the problem with 16 year-olds learning how to drive for the first time isn't that they are 16, but that they have 0 years of experience. Studies show 19 year-olds with 0 years experience do just as badly. 19 year-olds with 3 years experience tend to do just as well as a 22 year old with 3 years experience behind the wheel.