Real-World Trade-In Values

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Would highly suggest finding a used 2018/2019 GTI with a manual - they depreciate heavily and either of those model years will have the balance of a 6 year/72k mile warranty.

Too bad @breld doesn't have another one..

steine13

>> they depreciate heavily

That'd be sweet, esp. with the warranty, but it's not what I've found..

xwesx

steine13 said:

Learned Friends,
I'm asking for some information, and some advice as well, please.
cheers -m

Well, I guess I was thinking that you were going down the road of "she really needs something that will get her through all weather," yet you then moved the focus to mostly FWD, low-ground-clearance, sedans/hatches. I'm not sure that any of those really meet the need well unless she can drive to your house three blocks down to borrow something more weather-capable.

Crosstrek would probably fit the need, but may end up being more than the preferred budget. I picked up the one for my wife at $18.9K with 37K miles, 2018, basic Premium model with the 6MT a couple months ago now (in terms of the pricing), so they aren't that much. But, finding one in the vicinity might be a chore. Sadly, within that category (sub-compact crossovers/AWD), there isn't much out there with the option of a manual. Maybe that boxy little micro-Jeep thing?

explorerx4

I just checked Carvana for 18-19 GTI's. Didn't realize they charge for shipping.

kyfdx

One year later, my 2018 GTI SE brings an offer from Carvana that is $1000 more than I paid for it.

Sandman6472

My kids on her 2nd Hyundai Accent. Had a 2008 and after 11 years and 40K miles, someone hit it. She paid $17K cash for it. Insurance gave her $5K and she bought a 2020 Hyundai Accent base model again for $17K cash. Great little vehicle and her 2008 had only one issue, in year 4 her brake light switch failed. Repaired under the 5 year warranty in under two hours and I was on my way.
Hyundai Accent is a great little vehicle and "cheap to keep". My kids loves her second one and I'd consider getting one but I'd go for the top of the line model just for the sunroof. Can't go wrong with an Accent!!

steine13

The pandemic has done the used-car buyer no favors, that is clear.

For what it's worth, Carvana hasn't either. I don't know what possesses people to pay these comically high prices in exchange for what? A slick interface and lots of glad handling? It sure messes things up for those of us trying to get a good deal; these guys buy in serious volume.

@xwesx This ain't Alaska, nor Siberia. 5 inches of ground clearance + good snow tires, and viola. That's been my experience these last thirty years. AWD is nice, of course, but not essential.

My practice, subject to revision, of course, has been to buy cheap old, or bite the bullet and go new. For cars that hold their value, it really doesn't cost extra, at least not significantly. Plus it's 1/10 of the work.

Sandman6472

On the VW Golf, I've had a few issues I wasn't counting on. Overall, I like the driving dynamics of the vehicle but unhappy with the issues I've had. Would I buy another...that's a question I might have to answer within the next year or two. Right now, not sure I'd go down this road again truthfully!

xwesx

@steine13 Yeah, I saw that in your later posts. For some reason, I was thinking "UP" sort of winter weather...

stickguy

Civic is very nice. Stick is probably excellent. Likely hard to find, plus the model is being upgraded soon so supply might be an issue.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

Would highly suggest finding a used 2018/2019 GTI with a manual - they depreciate heavily and either of those model years will have the balance of a 6 year/72k mile warranty.

Even better, a golf (non GTI version). If you can find one. Cheaper, more economical, probably better for winter and crappy road duty. Especially for a kid starting out.

Or, a Jetta manual. Those are reasonably findable.

stickguy

And make sure to shop Brelds signature line. Everything there is always available.

corvette

explorerx4 said:

I just checked Carvana for 18-19 GTI's. Didn't realize they charge for shipping.

If it's not nearby, they do. I think it's free within a certain geographic area, kind of like CarMax. Also, the highest shipping fee I've seen at Carvana is in the $400s. CarMax is glad to send a car here from the west coast for $800+.

28firefighter

Most I've ever seen from Vroom or Carvana is $599 for delivery - and that was coast-to-coast. Bringing a car from an east coast CarMax to a west coast CarMax is $1800-$2000.

explorerx4

@corvette,
One of my friends is having a Carmax car shipped to CT from CA for almost 2K.
It's a kind of a hard to find wagon for his wife.

corvette

Yeah, I think I paid $800 or $900 to have my TDI arbitrage wagon sent here from New Mexico.

qbrozen

Tough to say on the Accent. It would probably hit $7k at the block.

No manual Fits? That is surprising.

steine13

Thanks for the valuation, Q.
$7 at the block means they'll probably let it go for $9 or a little less. With no miles and clean-looking, that would be a good running-around car for a quite a while. She'll drive it. Great time to be car shopping. We won't see the the warm side of freezing for the next couple of weeks.

As far as the Fits: Yep. Tried both autotrader and cars.com. Nada.

breld

I think from your earlier comment you're not a fan of Mazdas then?

I had a previous gen Mazda3 hatch with a manual and though it was wonderful. Starting in 2016 you could get the top trim (Grand Touring) with the stick. Lots of nice features. Nice naturally aspirated 4 cylinder and a great shifting manual.

Not as loved on the market as a Subaru or Honda, so pricing tends to be better.

breld

Or if you want to take over a $91/month lease for 20 more months I have a nice Leaf for you.

stickguy

I wonder how long it would take to drive a leaf from CO to NJ? Only about 1,900 miles. With charge stops every what, 2 hours (140 miles?) So maybe 15-20 stops at how many hours each at a charge point station (5?) I guess, unless those chargers are way faster than I think, you could spend 2 full days just parked outside of a walmart plugged in. Even 15 stops at 2 hours each is more than a full day.

I guess you just need to drive around the clock, just taking naps at the charging stations! 25 hours driving I guess at 70 average speed, if you can even do that in a leaf. Or would want to drive one that far, even if it had the range.

Maybe not such a good idea after all. Could try it in a Tesla long range, with supercharger access and might not be too bad.

breld

Probably easier overall to just get it shipped. Find the most affordable, non-covered option. I mean, it's just a Leaf.

breld

For kicks, I checked the values of that Leaf on Carvana and Vroom - they're a full $3-4k less than the end of lease residual!

Now, some may say that's a bad lease because you're so far under, but the truth is it's a wonderfully perfect lease with a severely inflated residual AND large discounts up front (hence the $91 (plus tax)/month payment).

That is, if you ride out the lease like most competent people would.

stickguy

if you were close by, and I was not about to inherit a car, taking over that lease would be perfect for me. Cheap, would serve my needs short term, not too long a committment. So a perfect way to kick the tires on EV life. And see how badly my range anxiety would kick in!

steine13

@breld
>> I think from your earlier comment you're not a fan of Mazdas then?
>> I had a previous gen Mazda3 hatch with a manual and though it was wonderful.

Let me see if I can explain this to you... I don't want to alarm you, but there are people, and I don't know why they do this, but they keep cars for a long long time. Many months. Years even. Crazy, I know. And when you do that, then oxydation forms, and nowhere so spectacularly as on the Mazdas I see around here.

Dumb jokes aside, for all I know they've got that fixed, but I'd have to be sure.

And while highway miles are easy on the drivetrain, typically, it's just a concentrated high-speed spray of salt water.Even our 2003 Toyota, which still looks OK on the painted parts and even the underbody, is having problems. Sliding doors, the hood release, the fuel door -- all these mechanicals are seizing from corrosion. It's serious and unpleasant to deal with. No fair-weather cars for me.

Michigan cars age in dog years.

Tempting on the Leaf, be the perfect running-around car for the wife. Problem is the transport, as stated.

tifighter

RE: the Leaf, at that kind of deal, it would seem worth looking into shipping it. That could be some cheap motoring.

breld

Truth is the Leaf is pretty nice. It "did it's job" and whet my appetite for the EV experience.

150 miles of range is not bad. Acceleration isn't nearly as brisk as a Tesla, but the delivery of the power is fun in its own right. And having the Tech and Cold Weather packages makes for a very nice vehicle.

tifighter

Are there any restrictions on the Leaf going out of state? I know CO has a strong EV incentive which surely factors into that low payment. Some states say a car has to remain in state for a certain amount of time for the credit to apply. Just curious.

breld

Yeah, I am aware that may be an issue but don't know the definitive answer.

andres3

explorerx4 said:

@corvette,
One of my friends is having a Carmax car shipped to CT from CA for almost 2K.
It's a kind of a hard to find wagon for his wife.

$2K would make great road trip money! IF you have the time to spare, I'd rather spend the $2K road tripping; if it was a nice car.

stickguy

it does sound like a nice vacation. plane fare out, 5 nights hotel and food/gas along the way, and get to see the country.

explorerx4

It will be a long time before I get on an airplane again.

kyfdx

explorerx4 said:

It will be a long time before I get on an airplane again.

Certainly, not until after a vaccination

andres3

Remember the movie 12 Monkeys? The virus was spread on an airplane right.

steine13

Progress report... On Thursday, Mademoiselle drove to a Subaru dealer near Detroit, they had an Impreza Premium 5sp in Very White. I tagged along but mostly kept my mouth shut... she drove, liked the setup and the visibility... she did not care too much for the transmission. I can see why, I tried it later, and it was notchy and imprecise, somewhat like the one in my Pontiac Vibes.. not exactly a joy, just better than an automatic. I wouldn't worry about it too much, it shifts, it's OK, but the car turns at 3,500 rpm at 75 mph on the freeway. That would get old really quick; A Subaru boxer ain't no Honda four in terms of smoothness.

So she's going to go to our local Subaru guy and try to work a deal where they order her a Crosstrek with the six speed. That's a solid four grand above the Impreza base, for not a lot of extra equipment, but for a long-term purchase, might as well get it right. I expect haggling on a car that ain't there yet will be a pain. She'll find out. I'll go along if she asks me to.

The real question is whether she should bite the bullet and go for a GTI. It'd be another four grand, which is stretching things a bit, plus you give up the AWD, plus you get the fabled Volkswagen reliability.

I'd still go that route, but my finances are a little more settled, of course. I think of VW/Audi products as well-engineered and solid cars that could nearly last forever, but with hefty maintenance and repair requirements along the way. A below-average VW would be painful indeed.

qbrozen

breld said:

Or if you want to take over a $91/month lease for 20 more months I have a nice Leaf for you.

Nissan is one that keeps the original leaser liable after transfer, correct?

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Or if you want to take over a $91/month lease for 20 more months I have a nice Leaf for you.

Nissan is one that keeps the original leaser liable after transfer, correct?

Yes

Michaell

28firefighter said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Or if you want to take over a $91/month lease for 20 more months I have a nice Leaf for you.

Nissan is one that keeps the original leaser liable after transfer, correct?

Yes

Ask @breld - he can give you chapter and verse on Nissan leases.

stickguy

in her case, I would go with the Crosstrek. Not sure a GTI is a good idea, everything considered.

shop around. These are not hard to find. There are 91 Crosstrek manuals within200 miles of me. here is one even listed at a decent discount.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/838312727/overview/

Weird. Oddly only 4 premiums within 200 miles of Ann Arbor. Different world up there!

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/836284010/overview/

corvette

Wouldn't a used Golf R get her AWD?

28firefighter

corvette said:

Wouldn't a used Golf R get her AWD?

Expensive.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Or if you want to take over a $91/month lease for 20 more months I have a nice Leaf for you.

Nissan is one that keeps the original leaser liable after transfer, correct?

Yes

Ask @breld - he can give you chapter and verse on Nissan leases.

That is who I was talking about because he wants out of his Leaf. Although it is so cheap it seems pointless. Just add to the fleet.

steine13

@stickguy
I agree, it is the adult choice™.
Part of me is rooting for the GTI, but then I can just buy one for myself.

>> miles of Ann Arbor
Bite your tongue! Ann who? I'm a Michigan State Spartan and contractually obligated to hate Wolverines. Which I do. But I still sent my kid to engineering school there

>> . Different world up there!
Amen, brother.

@28firefighter
>>used Golf R
Expensive. Unobtainium. Guaranteed to have been beat on -- though I reckon they can take it.
Insurance costs might be interesting for a 21-year-old

A Crosstrek Premium, full coverage, would be almost exactly $100/month for her. That is fantastic for Michigan...before I switched to Progressive, I was heading for >$3k per year for 3 cars and 3 drivers, 2 cars with full coverage, and no accidents or tickets from any of the drivers. My costs dropped by a factor of three if you factor out the statutory requirements. Insurance is a racket.

Used cars with MT are almost impossible to find, and when found, offer no real savings over new.

We gave up after figuring out that a 5-year-old Cruze LS 6speed would cost $8-9k retail if bought right. At that point, bring the $20k Impreza and call it good... and inch up from there, of course. We all know how THAT goes.

An old friend of mine just wrote to me about his Audi TT (2nd generation). As a lark, I looked for those with MT... either generation... pretty cars, but man they are thin on the ground. There's been a real phase change with respect to buying stick shift cars.. you can search nationwide and not come up with all that many candidates.

28firefighter

IMO this is a great used value. Top trim, manual, and nearly four years of warranty left.

http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/22483373

stickguy

that probably is a good deal. Late in the year sale, so over 3.5 years of the warranty left too. I just can't deal with black over black.

Michaell

Toyota Corolla SE sedan is available with a stick shift.

So are the Corolla hatchbacks.

stickguy

good luck finding one. I check occasionally, and they are never in stock. Might get lucky and find a Civic LX.

steine13

The Corolla would have been great -- but she doesn't fit. Like I said, she's 5 nothing... She can't get far enough away from the airbag when she's set up to drive. This is the only car so far that hasn't worked.. others have been a little awkward. Civic, Impreza/CTrek, Golf are all good.

Otherwise the Corolla would have been top of list.

kyfdx

steine13 said:

The Corolla would have been great -- but she doesn't fit. Like I said, she's 5 nothing... She can't get far enough away from the airbag when she's set up to drive. This is the only car so far that hasn't worked.. others have been a little awkward. Civic, Impreza/CTrek, Golf are all good.

Otherwise the Corolla would have been top of list.

I love the GTI. But, it doesn't have a lot of front ground clearance. And, the stock all-seasons are not very good in the snow, in my experience. That is the one I'd pick as well (I did!), but I have other driving options, or if needed for daily commuting, the resources to do a winter tire set-up.

No love for the Golf?

I didn't realize the Crosstrek and Impreza came with different manual transmission set-ups.

steine13

>> No love for the Golf?

No.

I "read on the internet" how the 1.4 TSI is a 100k mile engine. That's neither here nor there.
Then Steve Lang of 'Hammer Time' fame said the same thing.
THEN I saw a local ad that did nothing to reassure me:

2016 Sportwagon 6MT, 106k for $6k. I clicked on it, thinking salvage title, scam, whatever... but no:

One owner, all maintenance done at the dealer, clean car.... broken turbo. No help from the dealer or VW, they want $3,500 to replace. Would someone please buy his car and do the work?

Someone did, apparently, because the ad disappeared after a few days. VWs will last a long time, but it can be an expensive ride. I'd have a lot more confidence in the 2.0, it's a proven engine..not without its own quirks and issues (cough, high-pressure fuel pump), but it'll be long-term viable for someone with resources.

I just hate feeling like an idiot for buying a 'superior' product and then paying through the nose to keep it running.

I've had two VWs all my life -- a 1978 Passat [Dasher] in Germany I got as a hand-me-down when I was a student... and a 1988 Fox, orginally from Oregon, rust free, for a couple years in the late 90s... simple, solid, pleasant cars both, as was an '87 Audi 4000 that succumbed to rusting fuel lines... my wife still calls that the most solid car we ever owned.. I like VAG products, but man...