Real-World Trade-In Values

fezo

I do realize that I am an amateur in the midst of professionals.... Going to more cars than drivers was a big step for me. Hadn't done that since I was single and had an old 56 Buick Special as a toy. I'm sure I'm heading for the world of "oh, what's one more?".... Actually the answer to that is insuring the bugger. NJM doesn't seem to buy the concept that I can only drive one at a time.

Yeah, on that Pilot I have a hard time seeing how you can make changing vehicles worth your money. I'm not thrilled with the Ody on gas but there's little sense in doing anything about that.

woodyww

A few times here over the years people have posted about wanting to trade a Honda--cars with superb reliability & resale value--for a Hyundai, which have resale values that are probably the worst since Yugos. :confuse:

The Pilot sounds like a nice one, worth keeping unless you put on a huge amount of miles. But if you trade it, I'd urge you to do so on other than a Hyundai--a better mileage Honda, Toyota, or Subie (get a Japanese car, not Korean)......

lemmer

You are kind of in a bad place either way. You don't want a big SUV because gas prices are high. Depreciation is high on big SUVs because gas prices are high. The reason you want to sell it is the reason nobody else wants it all that much.

We have a 2006 Pilot EX-L 2wd that is probably taking a similar beating in the resale department, and I have no intentions of selling it. In city driving we get 18 mpg on regular gas. On the highway at 80 mph, we usually get a touch over 23 mpg. I don't know what else can match this mpg that can also haul my family of four along with my friend's family of four when we go out to eat on weekends, or haul the grandparents to church with us, or haul my mountain bike in the back down rough dirt roads with the family along with me, or bring home a huge washing machine, bring extra friends along with my kids home from school with a week's groceries behind the third row, haul a trailer full of landscaping stuff from Home Depot, etc. The only other choice would be a minivan (probably an Odyssey). If I totalled the Pilot today, I would be really tempted to go out and buy another one just like it.

Much like many people think of doing, my Dad panicked and traded in a loaded 2005 Yukon XL for a Subaru Forester. He owned the Forester for about three months before he traded it in on a 2006 4dr GMC pickup. Although the Forester was rated for it, it couldn't really pull his boat, pull his riding lawn mower on a trailer, move a piece of furniture and so on. It was a decent enough car, it just didn't suit his needs or desires. So in his attempt to save gas money, he lost a huge amount trading back and forth in the course of less than a year.

kyfdx

Rather than spending $6K+ to trade for a more fuel efficient vehicle, I'd probably use that money to buy a second commuter car...

Maybe a 7 year-old Corolla with about 100K miles?

narek

I rarely calculate my mpg, but I don't think I top 20mpg very often. I do have a heavy foot. Can't help it. When I do calculate it's usually a very consistent 17mpg average.

90% of my regular driving is short, around town trips. I'm a taxi-mom. I'd call it city driving. That's the bulk of the 15,000 miles I average per year. The new job is requires driving, about 8-10 days a month, averaging 600 miles per month since I started which is going to add another 7,000 miles to the usual 15,000 per year. THAT driving is all stop and go, shutting the car off and starting it back up just minutes later. I get paid by the stop, so time is of the essence. I have to get out of the car for probably 50% of the stops. Those are the ones where I do the shut off/start up. I imagine that would erode my mpg even further.

We owe nothing on the Pilot. It just dawned on me that in one year and another 22,000 miles it'll be over 87k. Where in the world will gas prices be then?? How many years can I keep that up??

I'm looking at an '09 Hyundai Sonata Limited 4cyl. mpg 22-34. I figured at $4 a gallon (I expect that we'll reach that well before the end of this year) and at the low end of the new car mpg (22mpg) the savings would be about $110 a month. I'm still negotiating the deal, but I think I can safely say that I'll end up financing (after my crappy trade-in offer. lol) just a hair more than 50% of the OTD price. That $110 gas savings would cover more than half the loan payment on the new car.

Enter the warranty factor. The Pilot is long out of warranty. The brand spankin' new Hyundai comes with a 5yr/60k basic and 10yr/100k drivetrain warranty. Oh yes, and 5yr/unlimited miles roadside service.

narek

A few times here over the years people have posted about wanting to trade a Honda--cars with superb reliability & resale value--for a Hyundai, which have resale values that are probably the worst since Yugos

Yeah, except Toyota's resale values are slowly slipping, and well, the resale value for MY Honda ain't what I was promised when I bought it.

Resale values on a Hyundai Sonata are based on 5 year old models that were new without the bugs worked out. They have steadily increased in quality and reliability, giving comparable Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans a run for their money, particulary in the newly reworked '09 model. (The main reason I'm not even looking at a "new" '08) They are one of Consumer Reports "recommended" vehicles. In the value and warranty departments they can't be beat. It won't be long before the resale values of Hyundai catch up with the pack.

Believe me, I've done my homework.

kyfdx

It won't be long before the resale values of Hyundai catch up with the pack.

:surprise: Not as long as they keep discounting them... When it comes to Hyundais holding their value, I'm from Missouri..

narek

My husband drives a 10yo Dodge conversion van 5 minutes to work. As manager for my teenage son's soccer team he also transports gear and players to/from games. It also tows our boat. Besides those Home Depot runs, that's all we use it for. Gas hog that it is, it's perfect for those needs. On paper it has no value at all. For us it has all the value I just listed.

It just make sense to me to dump one of the gas hogs. In my opinion it's the one that still has at least some value on paper.

narek

Not as long as they keep discounting them... When it comes to Hyundais holding their value, I'm from Missouri..

Save the difference in cost between the Hyundai and other comparable models up front and invest it. Add the investment value to the resale value of the Hyundai at the end of 5 years and I bet I'm ahead.

kyfdx

Paraphrasing....

Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it...

fezo

That second commuter car is a variation of what I did.

It seemed silly to use the van as an around town vehicle to drive by myself but if I was going to have a cheaper running thing the whole idea was to have fun and I landed a 99 Celica convertible. 30 mpg and the top goes down. Works for me. You have to hunt a little for them but they are out there.

I'd take that bet that the Honda or Toyota will serve you better financially over 5 years. I like what Hyundai has been up to but people have been saying for several years now that they've caught Honda and Toyota and the market will show that - but it hasn't.

cccompson

There's no point - she's hellbent on buying it.

In spite of Honda having offered big incentives for awhile on Pilots, the resale was still pretty good until this year. The market has tanked for just about all SUVs.

Of course, it could be worse - the other day my Honda salesman related that a customer was trading in a Freestyle (Freestar? - I can't keep with Ford) and was $10,000 upside down. She owed $21K and the best bid he could get from anybody was $11K. Even worse, he was taking in an '06 Jeep Commander ($43K sticker) and giving the guy $20K.

fooseven

08 scion tC in milwaukee

liftback coupe, manual transmission
4700 miles

white with black leather (aftermarket) interior

also has been lowered to accomodate trd springs and front sway bar for a smoother ride and tighter handling

this is not a stock tC but it doesn't look like one of the ricer setups either, no spoiler or added molding or silliness. it is a slick looking car and drives very nicely but I don't have any attachment to it, and if that's going to be the case I may as well be driving a used civic and save some money. I have a motorcycle for the 'fun' driving.

exb0

Narek, your logic almost makes sense. The EPA gas mileage on a 4-cyl Sonata is 21/30, the difference is 4 mpg. If you drive 22K per year at $4 gallon, you will save $1K per year.

Here is where your logic almost makes sense. If you buy a base Sonata GLS for $16,500 (www.fitzmall.com) and you keep it for 5 years, and continue to drive 22K per year, you might break even with the cost of Pilot by then. You will save 5K in gas and the Sonata with 110K on the clock might be worth about $2K more than the Pilot with 170K on the clock.

However, if you get the Sonata Ltd, or any of the conditions above don’t hold true, this transaction will cost you more in the long run.

gooddeal2

I rarely calculate my mpg, but I don't think I top 20mpg very often. I do have a heavy foot. Can't help it. When I do calculate it's usually a very consistent 17mpg average.

I'm looking at an '09 Hyundai Sonata Limited 4cyl. mpg 22-34. I figured at $4 a gallon (I expect that we'll reach that well before the end of this year) and at the low end of the new car mpg (22mpg) the savings would be about $110 a month.

If you can get 17mpg average on the Pilot, you should be able to get more than 22mpg average on the 4cyl.

My brother gets about 24mpg on the Altima w/ 100% local driving, 2 miles each way to work w/ 5 to 6 stop signs/lights.

scottinky

the pilot MIGHT run you $150-160 a month if you drive it a lot, with NO CAR PAYMENT. New car, $350 at least, plus 80-100 in fuel. You lose. I made the same mistake. traded a 2003 pathfinder for a 2008 armada, then dumped it after 3 months and lost $5500 to get an Odyssey, with is $170 a month cheaper inpayment, and absolutely kills the SUV in mileage. I can drive it for $30 a week at current prices.
I will come out ahead at the end, but I sure wisH i had the 5500 in my checking account.

gooddeal2

Well, you're talking about trade in a brand new car for a brand new car = big depreciation.

Back to the gas saving...if he can get 17mpg on the pilot w/ EPA15/20 (base on revised EPA for 2008). He should be able to get 25mpg w/ EPA 21/30.

Pilot @ 22K/year = 22K / 17mpg = 1294 gallons * $3.70 = $4787/year OR 398$/month

Sonata @ 22K/year = 22K / 25mpg = 880 gallons * $3.70 = $3256/year OR 271$/month

That's $127 saving per month that he can use toward the new car. If he goes w/ the Altima or a smaller car, he can save even more.

Altima w/ EPA 23/31 @ 22K/year = 22K / 27mpg = 814 gallons * $3.70 = $3011/year OR 250$/month (saving $148/month)

Corolla w/ EPA 27/35 @ 22K/year = 22K / 31mpg = 709 gallons * $3.70 = $2623/year OR 218$/month (saving $180/month)

mikefm58

Just to re-emphasis what others have just posted, if you get out the calculator and do the math, it almost never makes financial sense to trade-in just to save on gas. It will takes years to break even.

But if you're the type that likes to drive something new every few years and the financials don't hurt, then go for it. It's your money, like they say, you can't take it with you, so enjoy it. Good luck.

stickguy

there were some other considerations she listed. Such as the Pilot will be pushing 100K in a little over a year, no warranty, etc.

Plus of course, sounds like she would like a new car, which is the real purpose of Edmunds, isn't it?

Since you have the Dodge van too, I see how you don't need an additional car. But if you still wanted the ilot for some duties, it cold end up being cheaper to get something older (but small) to handle a lot of the miles the Pilot gets.

volvomax

Car is probably worth somewhere @ $14,000

jdunnisher

volvomax,

Could you please provide the trade-in value on the following? Would I be better off selling private party due to the manual tranny?

Location: Phoenix, AZ
Year/Make/Model: 2005 Acura RSX
Body Style: 2-dr
Engine: 4-cylinder, 5-spd manual
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 36,500
Color: Taffeta White, Gray interior
Major Options: Moonroof, Climate Control
Condition: Very clean
Exterior - paint in very good condition, protectant re-applied each 6 months
Interior - excellent, no carpet stains
Tires - original
Brakes - original
Maintenance - all dealer serviced
Other: Original owner, no accidents, rear bumper repainted

narek

I have taken all comments to heart. I really have. I still have not yet decided what to do. I am not emotionally attached to the Sonata. Of course I would love to have it, but I don't care to make a decision that may potentially take years to payoff either. The Pilot may have reached the point that it has more value to us as a useable vehicle than it does on paper.

We are considering keeping the Pilot and adding a smaller, fuel efficient used car to put most of the miles on. I have a teenage son who I'm going to have to let get a drivers licence sooner or later, and having an extra car in the family may be needed in a year or 2 anyway. I kinda like the idea of him in the Pilot as he learns to drive. It'll keep him safer.

I have decided to not make any decisions this weekend at least. Taking some time off usually helps remove any emotion from the decision making process, where it doesn't really belong anyway. For me it's not a "gotta have that car right now" emotion, it's the fear of making a wrong decision for something this big. I need to talk it out over a few drinks first. :shades:

mikefm58

The Pilot may have reached the point that it has more value to us as a useable vehicle than it does on paper.

I always say owning an older beater car (not that your Pilot is) that is up to date on maintenance, still runs good and is paid off, is worth (to me), the monthly payment on the vehicle I'd be replacing it with.

I just sold my '99 Honda CRV with 135K miles and miss it already :sniff:

fezo

Good plan. I'm sure the Pilot is worth more to you than it is to the market.

I wouldn't start your son on the Pilot but that's me. To me big vehicles like that are trickier to learn than a smaller car. There are loads of folks that would argue the other way.

Cool off periods are good.

volvomax

An auto RSX is prob worth a grand more than a manual one.
Yours is prob worth @ $11,000 on a trade.

woodyww

There's no point - she's hellbent on buying it. (the hyundai)

Here's the weird thing: over the years, I've noticed that people who are "hellbent on buying" hyundai's--seem completely obsessed with the idea. Almost more than the most hardcore bmw fanatic. And talking about other cars they might consider--hondas, toyotas (Prius?), or subies for example, forget it.

An '04 Pilot EX with moderate miles sounds to me like a great deal for around $11k-ish. But I remember in previous "gas crisis" events, people dumping big-block Vette's, Caddy's, whatever, cheap......

But thankfully Narak has decided to think it over: I need to talk it out over a few drinks first.

(FWIW, I have a fully equipped bar in my cool bachelor pad, kind of like Tim Matheson in Animal House had in his room when he was entertaining the Dean's wife, if you catch my drift....great place to talk over car buying decisions......). :shades:

mattandi

Borrowing from my brother. He wants to sell it, I might buy it. Curious what it is really worth, trade and private party.

Winston Salem NC
2004 Yukon XL SLT
Vortec 5300 V8 Flex Fuel
4spd. Auto
FWD
67671 miles
Silver ext. / Shale int.
SLT trim decor (leather, running boards, full function front seats, seat heat, Bose sound, adjustable pedals, steering wheel audio controls, rear audio controls, cross rails, XM, Onstar, power fold mirrors)
DVD
17" alloys
HD towing package
Stabilitrak
Power sunroof
Int. and ext. in decent shape, no major damage or wear apparent
Noticeable scrape on body, left rear just behind wheel well

isellhondas

The market has fallen apart on anything that gets dismal gas mileage.

Nobody wants them. The wholesalers won't even make a bid on them and the dealers that sell them new laugh at us when we call them for a buy bid.

I feel bad for the people who come in desperatly trying to get our from under whatever tanker they are driving. A lot of these people have long commutes and gas prices are killing them.

We cringe when we see a Durango or Suburban pull in.

lemmer

What are the best deals in the used market? Are sports cars values falling fast?

corvette

What are the best deals in the used market?

I'd say Durangos and Suburbans are good deals, if and only if you don't believe gas prices will increase past $4/gallon.

volvomax

Sports car values really aren't changing much.
Some, like SL Mercedes always free fall depreciate, others like Miata's don't.

isellhondas

Depends on what you mean by "best deal".?

If you want the most car for the dollars spent, buy a big SUV.

Sports cars? It depends I suppose.

volvomax

Trade is probably $12-13,000

mattandi

thanks v-max.

cccompson

So what do you do?

Decline to take the trade-in if nobody will bid on it?

Or do you offer what might seem to the seller to be a ridiculously low price in order to guarantee you won't be stuck if values fall even more?

I've been astonished at the number of used SUVs crowding new store lots of late. It seems as though we are still a long way from hitting bottom on their prices.

stkntraffic

What's even more amazing is to scan through our local Craigslist. Absolutely unbelievable what private sellers are asking for their trucks/SUV's. They're obviously trying to sell for what they owe, and have no idea how upside down they really are.

cccompson

Yes, private sellers seem to be pricing "by the book" which is WAY WAY over market now.

isellhondas

Of course, and this is what we have to deal with...

" I see what they are going for on Craig's list"

"Well, you see what people are ASKING for them"

Then they will tell me...

" Oh, it's not THAT bad on gas"

Seriously, this is a big problem now that is getting worse.

The wholesalers don't want them and they "no sale" at the auctions.

lemmer

How do they no sale? Do they start with a minimum bid?

isellhondas

No, they have a reserve on them. That is the very least the seller will take. When the bids don't hit the reserve, they "no sale".

corvette

Over half of what I see on Craigslist are obvious scams using mac.com e-mail addresses (which is surprising, since a .mac subscription is $99 per year).

imidazol97

What does using a "mac.com" email address mean. This is new to me.

corvette

The e-mail addresses on the handful of scams I looked at had a mac.com domain (ending with @mac.com).

qbrozen

you guys are making me think we picked the wrong time to buy a used XC90.

isellhondas

That won't be a problem unless you panic and try to sell it.

Used is the way to buy those!

mattandi

Nah, good time to buy, just not the best time to be selling or looking to trade one.

dodgehappy

Columbus Ohio
2006 Dodge Durango SLT
5.7 HEMI Engine
4WD
27300 miles
Dark Blue Metalic
Grey Leather
8 Passenger
Rear DVD
Alpine Sound
Factory Remote Start
Factory body color Running Boards
Interior- Great condition
Exterior- Couple small dents/dings/scratches

isellhondas

A Durango with the Hemi V-8??

Take the Kelly blue and divide it by two!

Not really, but get ready for bad news.

sebring95

Probably trading for a new one to get the $2.99 fuel guarantee

isellhondas

It's a gimmick. Read the fine print.

You can take a rebate or the 2.99 gas. No free lunch!