Real-World Trade-In Values

js06gv

@Mathias - I agree with you, and yes she has test driven the car. I'm not that bold! We went out one night just after my dealer got his first GT "just to look." I surprised her with the '11 four years ago also. Same drill, had her drive first to be sure she liked it but that one was an added car so a cleaner transaction with no trade involved.

qbrozen

you are right, its only worth it to the first buyer in this case. As a matter of fact, for some really strange reason I can't fathom, the base GTs are pulling MORE money than the Premiums right now.

The Premium comps to yours sold for $16.5k and $17.5k in the past month. The 2 Base models near your mileage went for $19.2k and $20k. Go figure.

What's even more amazing to me is how well the 2011s are holding their value. I would only get $22k for my 2013 with 11k miles if I traded today. Hopefully that means holding mine translates into not much more depreciation over the next 2 years.

flic1

Hi - I was wondering if you could provide a number for a 2012 Acura TSX (Special Edition, non-tech) with 36k (very clean, black/black, in Florida). My lease is up in 5 months but looking to negotiate a trade on a newly released model where dealer will likely not move much off MSRP. I'm not sure if they will make up the difference on the trade-in or not. Thanks much!

qbrozen

Prob about $17-17.5k

flic1

qbrozen said:

Prob about $17-17.5k

Thanks much, sort of where I thought it would come in. I think I'll be better off just turning it in at the end of the lease and pay the over-mileage rather than trade as my current payoff is about 22k....no way a dealer would get close to that.

js06gv

qbrozen said:

you are right, its only worth it to the first buyer in this case. As a matter of fact, for some really strange reason I can't fathom, the base GTs are pulling MORE money than the Premiums right now.

The Premium comps to yours sold for $16.5k and $17.5k in the past month. The 2 Base models near your mileage went for $19.2k and $20k. Go figure.

What's even more amazing to me is how well the 2011s are holding their value. I would only get $22k for my 2013 with 11k miles if I traded today. Hopefully that means holding mine translates into not much more depreciation over the next 2 years.

thanks again for the help. Ended up getting $18,800 on trade against an invoice less $1,500 price on the new car. I surprised the wife tonight with a Deep Impact Blue 2015 Mustang GT. She was very happy. Up this week....new exhausts!

henryn

OldFarmer, are you paying attention here? This gentleman just purchased a new 2015 Mustang GT for $1,500 under invoice. Why aren't you driving one? You know you want it!

qbrozen

js06gv said:

thanks again for the help. Ended up getting $18,800 on trade against an invoice less $1,500 price on the new car. I surprised the wife tonight with a Deep Impact Blue 2015 Mustang GT. She was very happy. Up this week....new exhausts!

Congrats. Seems crazy impressive for a new model. But it is winter up here, and end of the year.

tifighter

End of the year is here, and I have a line or two in the water. Again, asking about auction for -
08 Acura RDX sh-awd
Grey/tan
72000 miles
no Tech
just needs a light detailing, otherwise, ready to sell

KBB very good (not excellent) trade is $12500, so I'm thinking I could push 12k. Am I dreaming?

qbrozen

It is possible. They'd probably prefer to be closer to 11, but if it's real clean, knee deep in tread, etc, you could push.

mocyd

Hi,

Looking to possibly purchase an off lease 2012 Hyundai Genesis from a company who goes to auctions and buys a car for you. I would like to find out if the auction prices in SoCal area are within my budget. I would be looking for a 2012, w/ premium package, 25-35k in mileage, neutral color.

Thanks,

John

qbrozen

You will have to narrow that down. The Genesis comes in many forms.

tifighter

Thx Q. 5k miles on tires, new battery, etc. I'll try to work some magic.

brian125

mocyd said:

Hi,

Looking to possibly purchase an off lease 2012 Hyundai Genesis from a company who goes to auctions and buys a car for you. I would like to find out if the auction prices in SoCal area are within my budget. I would be looking for a 2012, w/ premium package, 25-35k in mileage, neutral color.

Thanks,

John

John ,

I'm looing to pull the trigger on a Audi S6 by months end and have been undecided selling my BMW X-5, or R-Spec Genesis Sedan . Check your IM page I will send you details On my 2013 Genesis.

chilsin

My lease on 2012 Acura MDX with 29,200 miles is coming up n February. It was a 10K/36 lease and I have one payment left.
The Residual is 25,412.70
Could you please let me know the trade in value as I'm contemplating turning this a month early and sign up a new one.

stickguy

You certainly planned the miles exactly right.

Michaell

chilsin said:

My lease on 2012 Acura MDX with 29,200 miles is coming up n February. It was a 10K/36 lease and I have one payment left.
The Residual is 25,412.70
Could you please let me know the trade in value as I'm contemplating turning this a month early and sign up a new one.

Where are you located? AWD or FWD? Color, inside and out? Condition?

All of these are factors in determining the most accurate trade value.

chilsin

Located in NJ, AWD, exterior color - Bali blue pearl, interior - Taupe, condition - good (normal wear and tear).

qbrozen

About $26k-$26.5k on the MDX (no tech nor advance packages, right?). So sounds like they nailed it pretty accurately on that residual. $25,412.70 plus your 1 payment puts you damned near dead even.

chilsin

This is probably why the dealer said he can't do much with the existing lease when I approached for a new lease.

Michaell

chilsin said:

This is probably why the dealer said he can't do much with the existing lease when I approached for a new lease.

The good news is that you don't have any negative equity to deal with; the bad news is that there is no positive equity to help out the up front costs on the new lease.

maxnbubs

Was told to post my question in this thread. Looking for some feedback on 4 cars. 2 bought by dealers at auction, and the other 2 look to be trade-in. I heard that some dealerships might be more inclined on giving a better deal if using in-house financing, as they will make more money back over the life of the loan. Is that true?

I'd like to figure out if I should be negotiating different prices on cash vs financed. Any input is appreciated. Cars I have my eyes on are below. I think the last one is the best option.

Would like to know price dealer paid (if possible)
2011 g37 ipl ebay

Would like to know price dealer paid (if possible)
2011 g37 ipl NJ

Looks to be a trade-in. Thinking I could offer $17k cash, maybe less
2011 g37 ipl tx

This was a trade-in, has a very good carfax report. Thinking I could offer $20k cash.
2011 g37 ipl md

qbrozen

I'm a bit lost. IPL is a special limited edition, yes? So... how do you tell them apart? Take the one in MD... title says Journey, description says IPL, car fax says Base. There is a HUGE difference in the values based on the trim. Base models with 30k-40k are $19k-$20k at dealer auction. Journeys are only about $1k-$1500 more. BUT IPLs? $26k-$27k! That is why I'm doubting these prices a bit.


The black one in NJ is a Sport, per Manheim, and was in below average condition, so it only got $20k. That is the lowest price paid, with the highest miles, and the worst condition. So if you want a bottom-feeder, that's the one.

Have no idea on the ebay one. per the auto check provided, it was last in Michigan in June. See my averages in the first paragraph.

Sounds like you want to pay less than they can get for it by just sending it to auction, so unless there is something wrong with the vehicle, the odds are not good for you. As for how you pay, yes, they can make extra off you through financing, etc.

maxnbubs

Yes, the ipl is a special edition. I am not too worried about getting an ipl, but the one in MD is very attractive (price and condition). Its priced along the lines of the 2011 g37s coupes, but is an ipl (adds $2k-$3k imo). Lol, I keep editing this post...anyways, the trim levels go journey -> s -> ipl

Just looking at the carfax it is a very well maintained car (my biggest concern). The next option would be the blue g37 in houston.

On that note...is $20k cash a good offer on the one in MD?

isellhondas

maxnbubs said:

Was told to post my question in this thread. Looking for some feedback on 4 cars. 2 bought by dealers at auction, and the other 2 look to be trade-in. I heard that some dealerships might be more inclined on giving a better deal if using in-house financing, as they will make more money back over the life of the loan. Is that true?

I'd like to figure out if I should be negotiating different prices on cash vs financed. Any input is appreciated. Cars I have my eyes on are below. I think the last one is the best option.

Would like to know price dealer paid (if possible)
2011 g37 ipl ebay

Would like to know price dealer paid (if possible)
2011 g37 ipl NJ

Looks to be a trade-in. Thinking I could offer $17k cash, maybe less
2011 g37 ipl tx

This was a trade-in, has a very good carfax report. Thinking I could offer $20k cash.
2011 g37 ipl md

I know it drives some used car shoppers nuts but, sorry, there is no way for you to find out what a dealer paid for cars they buy at auction. You should concentrate more on the VALUE of the car to you and not fret over how much profit a store may be making.

And, trying to offer 4000.00 under what a used car is advertised for probably won't work either. With an offer like that the store would be losing money.

In addition to what a store pays for used cars there are transportation charges to be added if the auction cars were trucked to the store.

Once the cars arrive, they are typically detailed and run through the shop. It's not at all uncommon for a store to spend 1000-2000 dollars or more getting the car in shape to retail. I believe our store spent an average of 800.00 in the shop getting the cars in top condition. I'm sure there are places that only do the minimum.

Then there are those "little things" like overhead, commissions etc.

Having said all of this, you can offer whatever you are comfortable with but if you make an offer as you've indicated you probably won't be taken seriously.

Good Luck!

maxnbubs

isellhondas said:

I know it drives some used car shoppers nuts but, sorry, there is no way for you to find out what a dealer paid for cars they buy at auction. You should concentrate more on the VALUE of the car to you and not fret over how much profit a store may be making.

And, trying to offer 4000.00 under what a used car is advertised for probably won't work either. With an offer like that the store would be losing money.

In addition to what a store pays for used cars there are transportation charges to be added if the auction cars were trucked to the store.

Once the cars arrive, they are typically detailed and run through the shop. It's not at all uncommon for a store to spend 1000-2000 dollars or more getting the car in shape to retail. I believe our store spent an average of 800.00 in the shop getting the cars in top condition. I'm sure there are places that only do the minimum.

Then there are those "little things" like overhead, commissions etc.

Having said all of this, you can offer whatever you are comfortable with but if you make an offer as you've indicated you probably won't be taken seriously.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the reply, I'm not so worried about the price the dealers paid, but was told that the members posting in here might be able to find the auction price, so I thought I'd ask.

IMO for the one in MD, the dealer got the car on a trade-in for a new car. I predict the buyer got $20k-$21k for the trade-in, and the dealer made the majority of their money of the sale of the new car. Which is why its priced aggressively.

$20k is a starting point for the negotiating, with $21k being my max. If we can't agree I'll move on. However, I think trying to sell a rwd coupe with a red interior in DC during the winter is not going to be easy...Also, I won't be in the DC area til the end of january, so if it is still available at that point the car will have been on the lot for 2 months.

If you had a customer come in and offer $20k on a used car that is for sale (regardless of price) would your dealership want to deal with a cash or finance deal?

Thanks for your input.

qbrozen

well, again, if the MD car is truly an IPL, they are already advertising it for rock bottom. I mean, they send that to auction, it pulls $24,500, let's say, and they pay the transport and fees, they are still clearing right near what they've advertised it for. So my guess is, unless something it wrong with it or its not an IPL as stated, they'll send it to the block unless someone takes it for that price.

If they even consider taking $20k, then something is very very wrong and alarms should be going off in your head.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

well, again, if the MD car is truly an IPL, they are already advertising it for rock bottom. I mean, they send that to auction, it pulls $24,500, let's say, and they pay the transport and fees, they are still clearing right near what they've advertised it for. So my guess is, unless something it wrong with it or its not an IPL as stated, they'll send it to the block unless someone takes it for that price.

If they even consider taking $20k, then something is very very wrong and alarms should be going off in your head.

It has the badging, the wheels, & the red leather interior (which I think was an IPL exclusive, though I could be wrong). That's a sexy looking car - Black with Red Interior. They're asking price is close to what I paid for my new 175 hp Legacy:)

maxnbubs

qbrozen said:

well, again, if the MD car is truly an IPL, they are already advertising it for rock bottom. I mean, they send that to auction, it pulls $24,500, let's say, and they pay the transport and fees, they are still clearing right near what they've advertised it for. So my guess is, unless something it wrong with it or its not an IPL as stated, they'll send it to the block unless someone takes it for that price.

If they even consider taking $20k, then something is very very wrong and alarms should be going off in your head.

Got it. I didn't know that a dealership would send it to auction if it was on the lot for too long or they weren't getting their asking price. So regardless if I make my offer today or in 3 weeks, there bottom line will be about the same.

And yes, its an ipl for sure, no question about that. This one has a very good maintenance history and is priced around what the g37s coupes are going for. I'd rather not have the red interior, but you win some and you lose some...

One last thing to add...if you are looking at the ipl, you know that it has all the bells and whistles. Whereas with a g37s, its kind of hard to tell if it has all the options that were available.

isellhondas

Dealers really don't care one way or the other if you pay cash or finance. They get their money either way.

The may mark up their buy rate a point or so but if you want to pay cash that works too!

Once in awhile our UCM would red tag some of the used cars that had been around too long. These tags were always aggressive and reflected what he hoped he could get at auction. Nothing wrong with these cars but maybe they had been on the lot for 45 days.

People would still sometimes offer thousands of dollars less than the tags. Then they would walk away only to discover that the car they liked was rock bottom priced. They would return to find the car had been snapped up by someone else.

I would gently let them know that there was a good possibility this would happen if they walked. They would give me a distrustful look and say " If it's meant to be, it's meant to be"

At that point I would focus my attention on moving that car!

akiladebeste

Can someone give me some insight into the trade in value of my car? It is a 2012 BMW 135i w/m sport package. I have been leasing it since 2012 and the lease is up this April. Just wondering what I would get for it at the dealer if I were to trade it in. Thanks!

Best,

Michaell

akiladebeste said:

Can someone give me some insight into the trade in value of my car? It is a 2012 BMW 135i w/m sport package. I have been leasing it since 2012 and the lease is up this April. Just wondering what I would get for it at the dealer if I were to trade it in. Thanks!

Best,

Color? Interior / exterior

Miles?

Condition?

Location?

Transmission?

All the above will help our expert get the right trade value.

stickguy

without knowing any of that, I will bet it is lower than the residual amount.

Michaell

stickguy said:

without knowing any of that, I will bet it is lower than the residual amount.

Safe bet - BMW has a habit of inflating their residuals.

breld

Makes for a pretty good deal in any case - pay the depreciation based on an inflated residual, then hand it back (and buy another one at the lower fair value if you like it).

If the actual fair value is less than the contractual residual, can you negotiate the buyout with the dealer?

henryn

I don’t claim to be an expert on leasing, but I don’t think it works that way. Whoever leased you the car is the owner at the end of the lease. For most people, for most cases, the automobile manufacturer (or importer) is the agency that leases you the car, and they own it at the end of the lease. It could be some financial institution (bank or whatever), but more likely the manufacturer or their North American subsidiary.

I’m going to guess in this case that is BMW of North America. If the residual is too high, and the car is worth less, than they are the ones stuck with that. They will sell it to the dealership where it was turned in, or put it up for auction somewhere. In either case, BMW of North America has to eat the difference between the residual and what they can actually get for the car when they sell it.

Leasing can definitely be more complex than buying.

kyfdx

henryn said:

I don’t claim to be an expert on leasing, but I don’t think it works that way. Whoever leased you the car is the owner at the end of the lease. For most people, for most cases, the automobile manufacturer (or importer) is the agency that leases you the car, and they own it at the end of the lease. It could be some financial institution (bank or whatever), but more likely the manufacturer or their North American subsidiary.

I’m going to guess in this case that is BMW of North America. If the residual is too high, and the car is worth less, than they are the ones stuck with that. They will sell it to the dealership where it was turned in, or put it up for auction somewhere. In either case, BMW of North America has to eat the difference between the residual and what they can actually get for the car when they sell it.

Leasing can definitely be more complex than buying.

Oh.. you can definitely trade a car in early, even if BMWFS owns it.. The car has a payoff. That payoff may be different for a Chevy dealer than a BMW dealer, and maybe even different if you want to buy it yourself, but it still has a payoff and you don't need the bank's permission to trade it in..

Whether it's worth more than the payoff.... that's another story.

And, at the end of the lease, is another story, still...

steine13

The real question is:
WILL THE LESSEE BE ABLE TO BUY THE CAR FOR MARKET VALUE?

This very different from buying "another one like for fair value."
Better the devil you know.

The answer is (i) NO.
The banks definitely don't like the practice, for the obvious reasons.
And then the answer is (ii) It Depends.

This used to come up in Terry's day quite a bit.
From what I remember from a decade ago, most captive banks WOULD negotiate, if approached properly.
As in, call within 60 days or so of the lease ending, and be prepared to speak to a supervisor.

Also, Honda reportedly would not negotiate lease buyouts as a matter of policy.
They know a thing or two about protecting their brand.
See also: No Customer Rebates, Ever.

BMW would negotiate, but not always, and the customer had to be insistent.

More recently, I've heard from a friend and Volt owner that Ally bank (GM) will not negotiate Volt buyouts.
That's a shame, as those numbers are particularly, uh, volatile. Plus it's a car where you really might wish to know how it was treated.

This past Monday, I handed back a Cruze 1LT. The residual was $13, and the auction value was around $9 per qbrozen. I didn't want the car, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't been willing to negotiate to make some of that $4,000 go away... it can't be easy being Ally.

If anybody has anything to share on the subject, I'm sure lots of people in this discussion would be interested.

Cheers -Mathias

Michaell

steine13 said:

The real question is:
WILL THE LESSEE BE ABLE TO BUY THE CAR FOR MARKET VALUE?

This very different from buying "another one like for fair value."
Better the devil you know.

The answer is (i) NO.
The banks definitely don't like the practice, for the obvious reasons.
And then the answer is (ii) It Depends.

This used to come up in Terry's day quite a bit.
From what I remember from a decade ago, most captive banks WOULD negotiate, if approached properly.
As in, call within 60 days or so of the lease ending, and be prepared to speak to a supervisor.

Also, Honda reportedly would not negotiate lease buyouts as a matter of policy.
They know a thing or two about protecting their brand.
See also: No Customer Rebates, Ever.

BMW would negotiate, but not always, and the customer had to be insistent.

More recently, I've heard from a friend and Volt owner that Ally bank (GM) will not negotiate Volt buyouts.
That's a shame, as those numbers are particularly, uh, volatile. Plus it's a car where you really might wish to know how it was treated.

This past Monday, I handed back a Cruze 1LT. The residual was $13, and the auction value was around $9 per qbrozen. I didn't want the car, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't been willing to negotiate to make some of that $4,000 go away... it can't be easy being Ally.

If anybody has anything to share on the subject, I'm sure lots of people in this discussion would be interested.

Cheers -Mathias

My understanding is that the finance companies hold insurance policies for the cars coming back from lease. If the market value is less than the residual value, the insurance pays off. That's why you aren't seeing as much horse trading on residuals.

akiladebeste

Michaell said:

akiladebeste said:

Can someone give me some insight into the trade in value of my car? It is a 2012 BMW 135i w/m sport package. I have been leasing it since 2012 and the lease is up this April. Just wondering what I would get for it at the dealer if I were to trade it in. Thanks!

Best,

Color? Interior / exterior

Miles?

Condition?

Location?

Transmission?

All the above will help our expert get the right trade value.

White (ext) Red (int)

A little north of 40,000 miles

Very good condition (everything is under warranty and new)

Chicago

automatic trans

Best,

isellhondas

Residuals are typically not negotiable.

Sometimes in an effort to move cars, manufactures will set residuals too high so that payments can be artificially attractive. Then they pay the price later. I've never understood this and from what I hear they seem to have learned some lessons.

qbrozen

135i - assuming you have the premium pack as well (because a BMW without a moonroof takes a pretty decent hit), the trade-in value would be somewhere right around $24k.

henryn

Michaell said:

My understanding is that the finance companies hold insurance policies for the cars coming back from lease. If the market value is less than the residual value, the insurance pays off. That's why you aren't seeing as much horse trading on residuals.

isellhondas said:

Residuals are typically not negotiable.

Sometimes in an effort to move cars, manufactures will set residuals too high so that payments can be artificially attractive. Then they pay the price later. I've never understood this and from what I hear they seem to have learned some lessons.

Based on what Michaell said, they pay the price upfront in the form of an insurance policy. I for one would be very interested in learning more about this. Perhaps I need to go spend some time with google.

hdmazon21

Im sick of all these different quotes that a dealers will give you when you are trying to trade in your car. Why is it that KBB always has a high trade in value than what the dealers always offers! I finally did a find dealer that would give me what I wanted for my Nissan and I was able to walk away with a newer car. I just hate that it took sooooo long!

Michaell

hdmazon21 said:

Im sick of all these different quotes that a dealers will give you when you are trying to trade in your car. Why is it that KBB always has a high trade in value than what the dealers always offers! I finally did a find dealer that would give me what I wanted for my Nissan and I was able to walk away with a newer car. I just hate that it took sooooo long!

Sometimes you have to be patient to get what you want for trade value.

isellhondas

Of course dealers want to pay as little as possible for trades just like the new car buyers want to pay as little as possible.

The various "books" aren't as important as what similar cars are bringing at auction. Auction prices reflect REALITY. Dealers can't steal cars at auction because they'll get outbid.

Also, sources like KBB assume the cars don't need anything to be fixed.

When used cars are appraised they are quickly looked over, taken for a very short drive and that's it.

Once the inspection has been done it is often discovered the car needs brakes, has oil leaks and other problems that have to be taken care of.

stickguy

Craig, I assume that dealers factor in a certain $ cushion for rehab, right? So if you really do gave a perfect, needs nothing trade you have to fight to prove it, since the first offer assumes it does have needs?

Michaell

stickguy said:

Craig, I assume that dealers factor in a certain $ cushion for rehab, right? So if you really do gave a perfect, needs nothing trade you have to fight to prove it, since the first offer assumes it does have needs?

When my daughter traded in her '10 MINI for her '14 MINI last spring, I paid $50 for a thorough cleaning, inside and out, just before going to the dealer.

The only thing wrong with it was a scrape on the rear bumper. I figured it would cost the dealer a few hundred to buff & paint it.

I had q give me a trade value ... he hit it at $11,500. $12,000 if they were feeling generous.

Dealer examined the car, declared it "line ready", and offered $12K.

This was on Saturday ... on Monday, the car was on their website with an asking price of $15,888. Not one thing was done to it.

And, this is a "one price" dealer, so no negotiating on the asking price.

isellhondas

Dealers know things may need to be replaced that often the seller knows nothing about.

They try, of course to take in the trades for as little money as possible but by the same token, they don't want to lose a deal over a trade.

I know we often stepped up and paid more than we would have liked to.

Then there were a few cars we paid way over book and still made money.

Sandman6472

Ditto to my Tucson...Q gave me a price and Carmax hit that price. I would've liked a bit more but depreciation and it being a Hyundai, I had to take my lumps. Took the Carmax appraisal with me to VW and at first, they were almost a thousand less and I was ready to walk since I really had no intention of trading, I was just curious. My sales guy told me to just sit tight, came back in a few minutes later and went up $500 but I said thanks, and got up. He then said, if I can meet Carmax's price, will you sign a contract tonight? Said sure, knowing that wasn't gonna happen but guess what, it did and I signed though i was a bit stunned while signing as I really didn't think they'd do it mid month. Figured I'd have to wait till the end of December if I really wanted to make a deal but they outfoxxed me here and just decided, what the hell!!!
Love the Golf but have now gotten VW corporate in the mix with the shaking/vibration issue. Eventually, I know it'll be fixed but hate taking the time since they've already had it 3 times in the shop tweaking it.

The Sandman