All I know was that it said something like USA limited or something like that on the side. I understand the company went out of business and the Body shop wanted $1100 to replace both running boards to make them be the same and fix the scrape on the front fender. I spent $180 on cleaning and detailing it just before I let the buyer look at it.
rroyce: I'm trying to be open and honest with you here and trying to give you a chance to do the same.
I would be having a fit! Is this car at a dealer? Don't they have jackstands ? I bet you will have a few bends in the unibody weld creases. Inspect that car carefully before taking it home.....Be NICE but assertive ! Good luck...............geo
So you got more for your car by selling it yourself. Thats whats supposed to happen. By admitting the buyer of your van did not do his "homework" sounds like you are also admitting you got more $$ than you would have from an informed buyer.
I may have missed something, but what point are you making here?
Was it a good one? I got an offer at about what I considered to be the value of my trade-in and I didn't seem to suffer on the price of the RX300. However, I was looking for a more expert opinion here.
I'm sorry for confusing things by talking about what I actually did.
Yup, its a dealer. A pretty well known one in South Jersey. I'm waiting to hear back from the general manager and from VW customer care now. All this, plus they've had the car like this for 2 and a half weeks! And that's just in addition to the other things I brought it in for, which no one at the dealership seems to know if they are done.
any reputable shop set a car on tires, much less a dealer! There are certainly jack points under there, but in fact they are on a structural rail that runs all the way back. It shouldn't hurt it any.
sounds like the guy who sold a Caravan to an immigrant who didn't speak english and clubbed him like a baby seal! Amazing! Tell us more Big0, this is getting interesting. ; ) Mackabee
I did find out that Ideal USA was the exact name of the conversion.
Well, I do also have pictures but nobody here seems to be interested in people knowing that you can actually trade-in a car for KBB or NADA wholesale value so I don't see the value in showing them here. Its just not in their financial interest for people to know that.
Last car I traded in was in '99. I had all the KBB and NADA numbers. Best offer I was given was $1000 under those numbers...
There's no conspiracy here - dealers will offer only what they can expect to get at auction (or less), because that's where they're going to sell your car 99 times out of 100.
Ok, so I've had this happen on the last three cars I've picked up (2 in 2001 and 1 last week). You get all of this information from all of these websites and they show "Invoice Price" - they are all within a couple hundred dollars of each other (??????). Then, the dealer shows the invoice and it is several hundred dollars more. Unfortunately I didn't bring a print out but I did look at the invoice and it never seems they are "adding" anything after the fact.
If you could possibly spare the time, please take out an invoice and then book it on one of the sites (although I love Edmunds for certain things, KBB car builder seems to be the most accurate - Hey Edmunds, why can't you make a configurator that knows that you can't get xxx if you get xxx and tell you like the KBB or Chrome Data one does???). Then please post what you find.
It's very discouraging to do all kinds of research and then have a number that is much lower than the actual invoice.
mfullmer - the dealer invoice might include advertising costs that the manufacturer charges the dealer. Neither Edmunds or KBB show this, as it varies by region (Edmunds does have a disclaimer about this.) Try www.carsdirect.com to see what they post as invoice - that might give you a clue.
"...but nobody here seems to be interested in people knowing that you can actually trade-in a car for KBB or NADA wholesale value so I don't see the value in showing them here."
I dont recall anyone on this board saying that it couldn't be done. If it's a hot vehicle, the stronger money it will command which may bring it near a value published in a KBB or NADA. I believe KBB words its trade quotes something along what it MAY be worth IF its in top condition, not what it IS worth.
"its just not in their financial interest for people to know that."
Its not in their financial interest to spend more money on your vehicle IF it can be had at an auction for less.
Store A has an item for $500. Right down the street store B has same item for $700.
Where would you buy?
BTW- I am not a dealer. However, as someone who has bought waaay too many new vehicles(that just about always involves a trade) The car guys here are telling it the way it is. In fact, most times the dealer ENCOURAGES me to sell on my own if I dont like the trade value quoted to me. I really dont think the dealers feelings are hurt if you choose not to offer your trade.
kbb's website seems to be the most accurate for building an invoice price. chromedata, edmunds, etc, don't usually account for the distributor fees, advertising, and other costs that will be on the actual invoice.
If you're talking about a Toyota, Chevy, or Nissan, I can give you a general idea of the real invoice numbers.
Solid invoice on a '03 Max SE 6 spd Titanium Ed, with slider and cloth in the Northwest? Any other sugar the dealers are throwing the consumers or factories throwing the dealers? I know with the March release of the '04's, some dealers have quite a few of the '03's piling up...my local dealer has had about 40 and holding steady for weeks. Thanks... Regards Vikd
Thanks for the responses. I did notice the advertising on the invoice that wasn't on any of the internet sites. However, I don't understand why "region" would make any difference. They all have you put in your zip code, supposedly for regional pricing. The problem that I see with it is that the thing I find mostly about advertising on these sites is speaking about the DEALER charged advertising and telling people to negotiate this as a dealer cost of doing business.
I realize that the Manufacturer to Dealer charge is part of the invoice price of the car but since they really don't emphasize this in the car building process (and I'm talking from experience. I spent several months researching and building the '03 Tahoe I just picked up without ever noticing the "disclaimer" about the regional advertising - although I knew it would come up on the invoice.), like my original post said, it makes the consumer less sure about themselves when they get into the dealership.
The whole message I'm stating is: Consumers use these sites as a way to gain confidence in the intimidating negotiations process. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, if you go in there with different numbers than the dealer has, it puts the consumer at somewhat of a loss.
mfuller - This discussion has come up before and Edmund's take has basically been that you should use their TMV rather than their invoice because they can't keep up with the different (legitimate) ad fees charged to the dealer because they vary so much from region to region (i.e. a dealer in Boston might be charged $250 for advertising while one in a small town in Iowa might not be charged any fee).
So the dealer has a piece of paper that has a different number than Edmunds. Who cares? Use the Edmunds number (if it is lower), compute an out-the-door price you are willing to pay for a car, and offer it.
All the dealer can do is accept it or refuse it. If they accept it, then you have a nice car. If they refuse it, then you learned something.
Any other incentives on that veh right now? How motivated are you Nissan folks to push these out to make room for the '04's? Hope I'm not being too intrusive in to the secret world of auto sales, but what are you typically selling those for right now? I know, lotsa ?'s but I am in the market for a sedan in that segment and want to cover the bases. I know the '04's have received some very mixed reviews but nevertheless, it's still a re-design...
I don't know about everyone else but we have alot of people switching from the 3.5 Altimas to the Maxima's because of the 2.9 and 1000 dollar rebate. We sell for a couple hundred over invoice and the customer keeps the rebate. Of course today with freezing rain and sleet I would love to see somebody here today.
The Max still sounds like a heck of a deal right now... Freezing rain and sleet huh?...sounds like typical Northwest weather in late Jan but not this year...topped out at mid 50's and sun couple days ago and hasnt cooled down much since... I wish you luck; freezing rain/sleet is about as bad as it gets...
I live in houston, TX - probably the energy industry capital of the world. Recently, I was in the market for a new German sports sedan and noticed an interesting trend.
As you probably know, the past 2 years have not been happy ones for the energy industry (read: Enron, etc). Consequently, many energy-related sales people, engineers, traders, and such have become unemployed.
On several occasions during my car search I encountered ex-energy company professionals that had recently turned to selling BMWs and Audis. Being that I also happen to work for an energy firm (that is beginning to downsize), I have become curious what a person selling BMWs/Audis/M-Bs, etc. makes. I would imagine they're on salary + commission....just don't have a good idea of how much.
I realize that this is a loaded question with many factors involoved (location/cost of living, ability to sell, industry factors, etc). However, I figure if we get a dialogue going, we could get an ballpark idea.
Assume no auto sales experience, but a very strong knowledge of product (most of the time I was telling salesmen about their cars and rumors of future models). Also a bachelor's degree from a well regarded university. 3-5 years professional experience.
I know I'm posting this on the wrong board, but since you Nissan guys are here I'm just checking what incentives you have on the Altima and Maxima, and when they expire? Like Vikd, I like both of those cars and may be buying soon.
I ordered a 2003 Nissan Sentra SER Spec-V the beginning of this month. Well, at the time, the price we came to, I thought was pretty good. But well, as time goes by, I noticed that by the time the car gets here (sometime in March), I could probably get a better deal some place else. But thats the thing, I dont want to go to another dealer. The reason I ordered the car was because no Nissan dealer around my area (Bay Area) has the one I like (options, color).
So I was wondering, is the negotiation of the price still open? Or is it set from when I ordered it. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
I recently purchased a used 2001 Yukon. I was wondering if anyone knew how I could get a copy of the window sticker? I tried GMC's website without success. thanks
It is reasonable to expect that you will be able to get a car that is on the dealer's lot for a lower price than the one you have to order. They need to move the inventory they have.
The document you signed is legally binding and the only way you can get out of it is to sacrifice your deposit. You would not want the dealer to back out of their end of the contract would you? What if your car came in and they sold it to someone else?
Can you get a deal at another dealer that is less than your agreed price minus your deposit? If not, you better stick to what you have.
The Maxima has 1000.00 rebate and financing specials. The thing I like about it , is that you get both . Rates for the Maxima are .9% up to 36 months and 2.9 for 48 and 60 months. No rebates or incentives for Altima's but they do have .9 up to 36 and 3.9 for 48 and 60 months.
The SER Spec V has a 500.00 rebate on it right now plus the low financing rate. This will probably continue until your car gets there. Based on the 2002's it may get up to 1000.00 plus the finace rates. If you are a recent college grad you could qualify for a additional 500.
Well, its just good common sense and business ethics and besides that, its law.
I hope we can all agree that those are good things to follow. However, we may disagree about what is common sense and business ethics sometimes but hopefully we do it without losing our sanity as alfox suggests. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.
That post was probably the silliest thing I've ever read. Why would I rely on the Edmunds "Invoice Price" when it is wrong? I negotiate up from the Invoice and it would make no sense for me to conclude that I'll pay only $500 over the Edmunds Invoice or walk when that Invoice price isn't correct.
I guess by your statement you don't value your time enough to not want to waste time "learning" that they are two different numbers.
That is a handy combination of incentives plus special rate. I am also eligible for the VPP plan through Nissan; what do you typically sell an '03 Max SE for to similar consumers with VPP eligibity?...or do you even get many of these types of buyers? I know most of what the program entails by reading what Nissa NA provides on the vendor website, but am curious to see how the process translates in the real world.
You take the invoice amount minus 4.3%.Not including the freight and ad fee. Take that amount and add 2.5% delivery fee. Add 540 destination and 500 ad fee. Subtract the 1000.00 rebate and that will be your amount.
Alright...easy enough. I came up with about 23,7 for a SE 6 spd Titanium Ed with power roof and cloth... Sound about what you're letting 'em go for to other VPP participants?
I am in the market for a one/two yr old mid luxo sedan with a budget of about 20k, but if I could a brand new Max... hhmmm???
I'm not a dealer, but... The advertizing fees could be one of the big things that differ from Edmunds numbers. The ones set by the manufactor seem to not be negotiable. The dealer or regional ones????
I've been poking around on Ford Ranger pickup numbers for some months. And here are some other things that could change the number.
One is when the vehicle was built. Ford seems to change it's charges around a lot. Right now they are giving A/C away, with a full list price credit on the sticker. There is another option also done this way. And, they make some options 'required' when combined with other ones. So, Edmunds give you 'current' charges, but the vehicle you are buying could have set on the lot for months, with differing charges at its build time. And the dealer pays the build date price, and this is what he will price from.
There are other options, the exact same option name, that appear to have different prices based on the 'region' you are in. Some of these are the 'credit' charges, lower prices on options. I have no idea what Ford sales region I am in, so this is very confusing. And yes, this is Ford's online pricing, and yes they also ask for my zip code. But a certain option can still come up with multiple 'region' differences. This is on the 'build your truck' screens....
They are making it tougher for us people to know the 'invoice' price.
P.S. I'll probably just keep my 94 Ranger, there isn't a lot of difference in it and the new ones.
I understand all of you guys answers, but I dont think what I signed my a contract of some sort. It was basically a paper that stated that I authorize the dealer to order the car for me. And that we can to an agreed upon price. But no where does it say the price is not further negotiable.
mney6 - yes, I do hope that Nissan will have a nice customer cash in March. That I know I will be entitled to.
So, if I read your post right, it's really not the amount you pay that is important. It's how much the dealer makes that determines if a car is a good value to you ? If that's how you determine what you'll pay then you should complain to those sites that give you inaccurate information. With the popularity of web sites like this, the tail sometimes seems to be wagging the dog. Consumers should be demanding that these web sites match their information to the manufacturer-to-dealer invoices, not the other way around.
One thing I've never understood. Edmunds, for example, is able to compile data on vehicles sold nationwide to get their TMV figures. But they can't keep track of manufacturers regional advertising charges?
You are exactly right. If they can keep up with so many cars and options, why is it so hard to also list a small regional fee that I assume stays the same for the model year?
we can list the price of floor mats for every vehicle made, but can't keep up with a known charge that has been the same cost for years across a known geographical region.
like Edmunds et al has a vested interest in maintaining traffic. Now, which would be more popular, a site that showed higher but accurate invoice numbers or one that showed lower "invoice" numbers?
Could that be a possible motivation or am I out in left field?
Comments
rroyce: I'm trying to be open and honest with you here and trying to give you a chance to do the same.
dealer? Don't they have jackstands ? I bet
you will have a few bends in the unibody weld
creases. Inspect that car carefully before
taking it home.....Be NICE but assertive !
Good luck...............geo
So you got more for your car by selling it yourself. Thats whats supposed to happen. By admitting the buyer of your van did not do his "homework" sounds like you are also admitting you got more $$ than you would have from an informed buyer.
I may have missed something, but what point are you making here?
Was it a good one? I got an offer at about what I considered to be the value of my trade-in and I didn't seem to suffer on the price of the RX300. However, I was looking for a more expert opinion here.
I'm sorry for confusing things by talking about what I actually did.
Talk about dangerous!
; )
Mackabee
"clubbed him like a baby seal" ROFL...LOL...bwaahhahahaha
Ed
I did find out that Ideal USA was the exact name of the conversion.
Well, I do also have pictures but nobody here seems to be interested in people knowing that you can actually trade-in a car for KBB or NADA wholesale value so I don't see the value in showing them here. Its just not in their financial interest for people to know that.
There's no conspiracy here - dealers will offer only what they can expect to get at auction (or less), because that's where they're going to sell your car 99 times out of 100.
If you could possibly spare the time, please take out an invoice and then book it on one of the sites (although I love Edmunds for certain things, KBB car builder seems to be the most accurate - Hey Edmunds, why can't you make a configurator that knows that you can't get xxx if you get xxx and tell you like the KBB or Chrome Data one does???). Then please post what you find.
It's very discouraging to do all kinds of research and then have a number that is much lower than the actual invoice.
Thanks in advance!
I dont recall anyone on this board saying that it couldn't be done. If it's a hot vehicle, the stronger money it will command which may bring it near a value published in a KBB or NADA. I believe KBB words its trade quotes something along what it MAY be worth IF its in top condition, not what it IS worth.
"its just not in their financial interest for people to know that."
Its not in their financial interest to spend more money on your vehicle IF it can be had at an auction for less.
Store A has an item for $500. Right down the street store B has same item for $700.
Where would you buy?
BTW- I am not a dealer. However, as someone who has bought waaay too many new vehicles(that just about always involves a trade) The car guys here are telling it the way it is. In fact, most times the dealer ENCOURAGES me to sell on my own if I dont like the trade value quoted to me. I really dont think the dealers feelings are hurt if you choose not to offer your trade.
If you're talking about a Toyota, Chevy, or Nissan, I can give you a general idea of the real invoice numbers.
Ed
Thanks... Regards Vikd
I realize that the Manufacturer to Dealer charge is part of the invoice price of the car but since they really don't emphasize this in the car building process (and I'm talking from experience. I spent several months researching and building the '03 Tahoe I just picked up without ever noticing the "disclaimer" about the regional advertising - although I knew it would come up on the invoice.), like my original post said, it makes the consumer less sure about themselves when they get into the dealership.
The whole message I'm stating is: Consumers use these sites as a way to gain confidence in the intimidating negotiations process. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, if you go in there with different numbers than the dealer has, it puts the consumer at somewhat of a loss.
MSRP is $27,643, invoice on it is $25,157
hope this helps,
Ed
All the dealer can do is accept it or refuse it. If they accept it, then you have a nice car. If they refuse it, then you learned something.
We sell for a couple hundred over invoice and the customer keeps the rebate.
Of course today with freezing rain and sleet I would love to see somebody here today.
Freezing rain and sleet huh?...sounds like typical Northwest weather in late Jan but not this year...topped out at mid 50's and sun couple days ago and hasnt cooled down much since...
I wish you luck; freezing rain/sleet is about as bad as it gets...
Regards....Vikd
As you probably know, the past 2 years have not been happy ones for the energy industry (read: Enron, etc). Consequently, many energy-related sales people, engineers, traders, and such have become unemployed.
On several occasions during my car search I encountered ex-energy company professionals that had recently turned to selling BMWs and Audis. Being that I also happen to work for an energy firm (that is beginning to downsize), I have become curious what a person selling BMWs/Audis/M-Bs, etc. makes. I would imagine they're on salary + commission....just don't have a good idea of how much.
I realize that this is a loaded question with many factors involoved (location/cost of living, ability to sell, industry factors, etc). However, I figure if we get a dialogue going, we could get an ballpark idea.
Assume no auto sales experience, but a very strong knowledge of product (most of the time I was telling salesmen about their cars and rumors of future models). Also a bachelor's degree from a well regarded university. 3-5 years professional experience.
Any ideas?
So I was wondering, is the negotiation of the price still open? Or is it set from when I ordered it. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
The document you signed is legally binding and the only way you can get out of it is to sacrifice your deposit. You would not want the dealer to back out of their end of the contract would you? What if your car came in and they sold it to someone else?
Can you get a deal at another dealer that is less than your agreed price minus your deposit? If not, you better stick to what you have.
I've seen a lot of pics of the 04 Maxima, and I think the 03 is a nicer car. Of course, perceptions usually change when you see them in person.
Ed
Let's turn this around...
Suppose your car finally arrives but another customer shows up who likes it and is willing to pay more than you agreed to?
Would you be upset if they sold it out from under you?
The thing I like about it , is that you get both .
Rates for the Maxima are .9% up to 36 months and 2.9 for 48 and 60 months.
No rebates or incentives for Altima's but they do have .9 up to 36 and 3.9 for 48 and 60 months.
This will probably continue until your car gets there.
Based on the 2002's it may get up to 1000.00 plus the finace rates.
If you are a recent college grad you could qualify for a additional 500.
No, big-O agreed with isell. isellhondas' take on such things has been known for several years here.
I think there is more common ground among most people than we realize, and if they just take the time to talk about it sanely, they will find it.
I hope we can all agree that those are good things to follow. However, we may disagree about what is common sense and business ethics sometimes but hopefully we do it without losing our sanity as alfox suggests. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.
Ed
I guess by your statement you don't value your time enough to not want to waste time "learning" that they are two different numbers.
Thanks and good info as always!
Regards... Vikd
Take that amount and add 2.5% delivery fee.
Add 540 destination and 500 ad fee.
Subtract the 1000.00 rebate and that will be your amount.
I am in the market for a one/two yr old mid luxo sedan with a budget of about 20k, but if I could a brand new Max... hhmmm???
Regards... Vikd
The advertizing fees could be one of the big things that differ from Edmunds numbers. The ones set by the manufactor seem to not be negotiable. The dealer or regional ones????
I've been poking around on Ford Ranger pickup numbers for some months. And here are some other things that could change the number.
One is when the vehicle was built. Ford seems to change it's charges around a lot. Right now they are giving A/C away, with a full list price credit on the sticker. There is another option also done this way. And, they make some options 'required' when combined with other ones. So, Edmunds give you 'current' charges, but the vehicle you are buying could have set on the lot for months, with differing charges at its build time. And the dealer pays the build date price, and this is what he will price from.
There are other options, the exact same option name, that appear to have different prices based on the 'region' you are in. Some of these are the 'credit' charges, lower prices on options. I have no idea what Ford sales region I am in, so this is very confusing. And yes, this is Ford's online pricing, and yes they also ask for my zip code. But a certain option can still come up with multiple 'region' differences. This is on the 'build your truck' screens....
They are making it tougher for us people to know the 'invoice' price.
P.S. I'll probably just keep my 94 Ranger, there isn't a lot of difference in it and the new ones.
mney6 - yes, I do hope that Nissan will have a nice customer cash in March. That I know I will be entitled to.
That's the key. Did you sign a contract with that phrase in it? Was the price stated on the contract?
One thing I've never understood. Edmunds, for example, is able to compile data on vehicles sold nationwide to get their TMV figures. But they can't keep track of manufacturers regional advertising charges?
Ed
Could that be a possible motivation or am I out in left field?