Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

bretfraz

It's always been my understanding that Edmunds buys the info from some 3rd party. Once they get it, they post it. They prolly do not have anyone doing fact checking on 3rd party info. Since prices change several times per year I imagine it would take a decent sized staff just to keep up with the info.

I wonder how well Edmunds is doing financially.

tahoma17

I've been negotiating a deal on a new vehicle from a Toyota dealer and reached agreement on the numbers. I am paying cash, a trade-in and have my own financing for the balance, yet the contract they have written up (I haven't signed yet) is a Retail Installment Sale Contract/Simple Interest Finance Charge, and they've told me that's the only contract form used in California. Anyone know if that is true? It shows no interest or finance charge rates (marked as "N/A") and shows a lump sum payment due for the total amount less the trade in (due in 5 days). Thanks for your input.

xccoachlou

even after a signed contract...

Here's the link, 7 On Your Side, the local ABC station's Eyewitness News program.

I didn't watch the show tonight but had heard about it.

And you guys wonder why I am loathe to enter a Honda dealer...

- Lou

P.S. In case the above doesn't work, here's the actual URL http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_7side_013003_dealer.html

ramped1

for the dealers. It's the end of the month. Do you guys need to blow out some cars to make quota this weekend?

zueslewis

That's why I'm picking up my 300M tomorrow!!

As a former car guy, I know what the last couple of days of the month is worth!!

thel

because it was the end of the month and he knew I was interested in a new CR-V.

I told him I still wanted to pay $22,000 for the CR-V (about $400 over TMV) and I wanted $26,500 for my 2001 Tahoe LT. He asked if I had talked to any other dealers about my offer. I said that the Honda dealer 30 miles away said that they could probably do the deal but I hadn't gone into the store b/c I hadn't had the time (and I'm not super-badly in need for a CR-V anyway). He basically told me that if the other guy would do the deal then I should buy from thr other guy b/c he didn't want to be that "buried" in my Tahoe.

Guess that end of the month stuff only goes so far.

abtseller

end of the month stuff will only get you to the edge of reality, not into the twilight zone. You're optimistic about the value of your Tahoe.

Ed

thel

I got advice from Terry, I looked at asking prices for other similar Tahoes on dealer lots, I don't think I'm in the twilight zone but I'm not into the CR-V enough to let go of my Tahoe unless I can get very good money for it.

grandtotal

It's no good looking at asking prices for other Tahoes, the dealer isn't going to give you that.

abtseller

so I realize I'm not talking about your truck specifically, but we just sold an 01 with 26k on it, LT, 4wd, loaded up to the hilt. We had about 2k less in it than you're asking for yours.

You're best bet would be retail, of course, but then you're fighting all the rebates/ finance intentives, etc, of the new ones.

Tahoes are a little strange to hit sometimes. You're either going to sell it the first day you have it, or you'll sit on it for months. Maybe the Honda dealer isn't confident that he can move it quickly enough to make it worth his while.

No offense intended, honest.



Ed

thel

I wasn't trying to get what the dealers were asking. I actually started at about $3,000 below that. Around here, the local Chevy dealers are asking right around $29,500-30,000 for Tahoes equipped like mine with as much or more miles. I wanted $3,000 less than that b/c I figure that even after the minimal reconditioning required that a $3,000 markup was resonable.

No offense taken Ed. I know you're just here to help. I appreciate yor efforts here in Town Hall and think that you make a fine contribution to the discussions here.

isellhondas

I asked our used car manager how the Tahoes were doing at the auction. He said they were really running hot and cold. He said that last month they were strong but they are pretty soft now.

Trouble is, the dealer really doesn't want to pay you more for it than what the actual value is.

You are also competing head on with brand new ones, low interest financing etc.

Also, don't confuse what your local Chevy dealers are asking. It may be far less than they are getting.

And, it'll never be worth as much as it is right now. Time is not on your side here.

You may just want to keep it?

isellhondas

Well, I always hate hearing stories like the one you've posted. Too bad it was a Honda dealer in this case but I hope you realize it could have been any make.

Here's my take on it...

I think the buyer had probably shopped the deal all over creation. Look how far he had to travel in order to buy a car. He had to KNOW a mistake had been made I would have to think!

Still, it had to be a very sloppy dealer to let such a mistake slip by.

I think they had every right to inform the customer that a large error had been made.

They could have tried to appeal to the customer's sense of fair play in an attempt to recover some of the loss.

If the customer refused, they simply should have eaten it and gone on with business.

mfullmer

Maybe there was something else going through your mind when you read my post but I never suggested that "dealer profit" was the most important thing. Value is just that - "What it is worth to any one person". I derive "value" for vehicles on a car-by-car basis. Since I mostly by GM cars, I figure value as a certain amount over what the dealer pays for it. It's not about "profit" for the dealer.

I NEVER said that I thought the manufacturer invoice SHOULD match an internet invoice price. Just as you suggest, I WAS complaining to the internet boards for not having the correct information. Once I saw the actual invoice, I never even told him about the interent price I had been given. Disclosures or not, it's not that hard to get proper information.

I'm not sure what you read before you posted your response but I guess you were in too big of a rush to be combative and obviously didn't read it since you had the same point of view I did.

landru2

"I figure value as a certain amount over what the dealer pays for it. It's not about "profit" for the dealer."

However, I would be interested in reading how you feel that "a certain amount over what the dealer pays" is different from the profit for the dealer.

vikd

Congrats on the 300M. Still deciding myself between that, an '01 LS or a '02/'03 Max. Of the three, I have not yet driven the M; will do that this weekend. I do really like the 'Special' edition of the M. If I can find one of those at a reasonable price, it will probably be the frontrunner to occupy my driveway. Can I ask what your paying for your M and which model/configuration it is? Thanks again for the suggestions..they remain on my shopping list.

Regards... Vikd

thel

that pretty much jives with what a different Honda dealer told me yesterday. The nice Tahoes were bringing good money at the auctions but the "average" ones weren't doing so well. Of course, everyone likes to think that their car is nice and not just average LOL.

zueslewis

and I'm looking stronger at the WRX - there's a dealer in Allentown, PA (Becker Subaru) that seems very professional and courteous. The Chrysler guys chapped me - yes, it does make a difference and yes, I'd change my mind about a vehicle choice based on the way I'm treated.

ateixeira

Do you like the new "face" on the 2004 WRX? If so you may want to wait. Even if you don't, odds are prices on the 2003s will drop once the 2004s are close.

-juice

zueslewis

the 2003. I'm an impulse buyer. If I don't buy now, I won't be in the mood again for a while.

grandtotal

I suggest you give it a miss if you're present ride is OK. You seem to be shopping two very different cars (at least in my mind). Maybe you need to get a better handle on what it is you want. Of course that wouldn't make you an impulse buyer then, would it? So maybe I'm wasting my time typing this.

zueslewis

and I have about 6 or 8 vehicles that would fit my needs. After doing the job I do, I'm shopping people, which are much more important than the actual vehicle.

I'm looking for a performance sedan. The 300M, WRX, Honda Accord V6, Lincoln LS, Mazda Millenia S, Cadillac STS, etc are all in the same boat to me. And you'd better believe I'd autocross a Cadillac STS - I'll enjoy the looks I'll get when I post better times than most of the Civics. In autocross, the car is important, but it's the driver that makes the difference.

ateixeira

If you want to surprise people get a WRX wagon. ;-)

-juice

grandtotal

...for different folks. I find the vehicle I want then set about finding the right people.

zueslewis

many vehicles will work, and although I'll take great pride in my vehicle whatever it is, I tend to take vehicles for granted given the nature of my job, whih, in many ways, is more "vehicle absorbed" than when I was in the car business.

I see, daily, the pointless issues, heated discussions and held grudges that go on between people over their cars. I want a nicer experience - a break from my job. That's my first priority.

vikd

How 'bout picking up an STi version of the WRX...as many ponies as that Northstar STS.
What about visiting a different Chrysler dealer...that is if youre still in to the M?
A WRX just does not fit in to the performance sedan category, imo.
Happy continued shopping...will finsish my selection process this weekend.

Regards... Vikd

zueslewis

I'm 5'7" tall, so I don't need a Crown Victoria, I'm a hard core auto enthusiast - obsessive, if you will.

An STS would get the new Whipple Supercharger, a 300M would get the Kenne-Belle Unit, the Accord was get a Jackson Racing impeller. Nothing stays stock at my house. A WRX would get the larger turbo from STi, larger intercooler and injectors.

The WRX is really cool, that's why it was my first choice. The others work well, especially with my wife in mind and no matter what, it'll be fun to drive.

stickguy

Gee, if nothing stays stock at your house, what have you done to the wife and the dog??

nice spread of cars. I thought I was the only one that changed my mind so much. I've moved from considering a Mini, Civic Si, 5 series, 3 series, Lexus GS, '93 MR2, new MRS, a Miata and an RX8. And thats just this week.

The ultimate salesman nightmare: someone who treats cars like pornogrophy. You remember the quote from a Supremem Court justice: I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it?

zueslewis

unfortunately, my german shepard, Zues, died 2 weeks ago. Hit by a female cell phone using Mercedes SUV driver, no less. Bummer. That dog was my shadow for 10 years.

The car thing - I'm so wishy-washy, but I have the right and so do you!

If I keep my Mustang, I still haven't decided on what size stroker motor to use.

My wife's going crazy and says if she hears another thing about that Mustang, she'll divorce me.

I asked "is that all it takes?" Honey should I go with 17" or 18" wheels? Honey? Dear? Where'd you go?

Party time!!

vikd

interesting choice since it finally landed on our shores. The STi version ups the ante even further. The Zues version of the STi would be just down right SCARY!!! Fun, but sheeesh...
Not that youre vertically challenged, but at 5'7', a 4 door Cooper S (if they made one) would be a perf. sedan for you... ;-/
Sorry about the German Shepherd; great dogs. Theres been one in our family for 22 years, not the same one of course... that is a bummer!

Regards... Vikd

zueslewis

cutesy, but I'm from Texas and we do road trips. Not a 2000-mile roadtrip car, as far as I see. We also roadtrip to Ohio, South Carolina, etc.

I spent 6 years in Europe and I've always liked mid-size to larger cars that can cruise at 100 plus.

vikd

a joke...
Cruised right along in an LS V8 sport at about 100 mph up a certain stretch of northbound I-5 in Oregon. Only slowed down before approaching known trooper hiding spots...and also because I started feeling (yawn) responsible... ;-> That car was FUN and much smaller than one would assume from a Lincoln...

Regards... Vikd

zueslewis

I lived in Beaverton for 3 years and Medford/Central Point for 2 years.

I'm not opposed to smaller cars, by any means, but they have to have MAJOR guts, like the WRX, GTI, Jetta VR6, Mazda 6, etc.

sandman46

Very sorry to hear about your dog. Personally, I think cell phones should be banned while driving. People do some real bonehead things while talking and driving. Bet that lady felt real bad about the accident, but no exscuse for the tragedy that occured.

The Sandman :-(

stickguy

bummer about the dog. My daughter has a dog obsession, and asks for one at least 10 times a day, but I haven't caved (actually, my wife says no) yet.

I know what you mean about the divorce. My wife runs away with her ears covered when I start talking about one car or another. She finally got smart, and told me to get anything I want without asking, knowing that I can't make up my mind (or will be too chaep to drop big $$ ona fancy new one). WOn't she be sorry some day.

zueslewis

that "it's easier to got forgiveness than permission".

I had just been promoted to fleet/commercial F&I manager and I had wanted a motorcycle for quite a while. We lived in a small town in WY and I was friends with the owner of the small Kawasaki shop in town.

I was talking to the owner of my dealership about the cool, black ZX-11 (last year's model even) that the shop guy was desperate to unload at $100 over cost.

I told my boss that if I asked my wife, she'd say "no" for sure, and that would be the end of it. He told me that "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission". That's gold.

I bought the bike on July 16, 1993. The only problem was, and I knew my boys, my mother-in-law and I were taking my wife out to dinner for her birthday, but the two thoughts never met in my head. As I rode up on my shiny new black bike, she came out and said "It's my birthday - you buy a new motorcycle and all you got me was a watch?"

All I could say in my defense is, "But I bought so I could take you riding!" Didn't work.

dtwleungnyc

If I tell you that my friend is ordering 2 Nismo turbo charger for his G35. That won't screw up your selection process right? 8)

zueslewis

but I want to buy a Skyline next year, imported by Motorex - an R34. Tell your friend to have a blast with that - I'm sure he will!

grandtotal

Doesn't sound like much of an impulse purchase if you're talking about it now.

zueslewis

Ever since I started play Gran Turismo on Play Station!

I'm an impulse buyer (combat shopper, I call it) on normal day-to-day things.

For instance, I make the realization I need new white t-shirts. Go to Wal-Mart, find the Hanes packages in my size, make sure Fruit of the Loom isn't cheaper, buy the shirts, leave the store. No need for months of research and cotton fiber testing.

Same with a car.

xccoachlou

If only buying a car were as easy, and as cheap, as buying tee shirts.

Now, if you want to avoid buying tee shirts altogether, take up running and sign up for races. You get a free tee shirt with every race.

- Lou

zueslewis

I've been consumed by cars since I was old enough to look over the grille of my oldest brother's '62 Impala SS 409.

Cars are second nature to me, and getting a new or used one IS like clothes shopping. There's no emotion, except the excitement of owning the new one. There's no special research, because all I do is automotive research, whether for work or hobby.

I equate my car buying experience to that of a professional fisherman dropping into the store for a new rod or reel. He knows what works, knows what he's paying and he picks it up. Period.

mfullmer

The "Invoice" for the vehicle and how much I am willing to go over that invoice does not necessarily equal "Profit" for the dealer.

If the vehicle has only been there a couple of weeks, the dealer still has the remaining holdback. There may be other incentives that are dealer and not consumer oriented. I'm not concerned with those. That goes towards dealer profit and I'm not concerned about that.

Thats why, as I said, I figure the "value" (to me) as a certain amount over invoice (What the dealer PAID for the vehicle.). I'm not concerned with the profit that he makes as a result of the sale.

This is why getting the correct "invoice" price (since these websites are giving a lot of that information) is important to me before I go in to work up the deal.

bobst

Fullmer, if you see different invoice prices on this and other websites, you could just take the lowest one, add on a reasonable dealer markup, calculate your OTD offer, and see if it is accepted.

If your offer is refused at a few dealers, then you have proof that you have to increase it.

isellhondas

Not a flame in any way...I just don't understand the thinking of people like yourself, so please help me here...

First of all, why do you worry about what a dealer paid for the car and why do you even think about holdback?

Isn't the VALUE of the car more important?

If you were in the market for a low supply, high demand car would you not buy it because you felt the dealer was making too much (gasp)profit?

Would you then settle for a car you didn't like as well strictly because you could buy it for less of a markup?

I just don't understand and maybe I misread your posts.

powerman

Zues,

Sorry to hear about your dog. We just had to put down our shephard/hound mix due to complications from his diabetes. It is really hard losing your daily companion.

melandmal

Your way is the correct way. When we were looking at buying a midsize SUV, the two finalists were the Explorer and the Pilot. Even though we could have bought the Explorer at $1,000 less than invoice, we opted for the Pilot at $1,000 under MSRP. The dealer made a tidy profit on the Pilot but who cares because the VALUE of the Pilot was much greater to us.

xccoachlou

I think DK = Dealer's Kid?

bigorange30

The same thing has been happening to me here too.

vikd

...in the SW portion near Aloha/Farmington.
Since you seem to know the area, I was putting that LS to the test northbound I-5 between Eugene/Springfield and Albany. Coincidentally, just prior to that trip, I drove a rented Avalon XLS down to Medford and back...that was actually not a bad veh either save for the softer suspension and much floatier ride than the LS.
Lived in OR all my life...great place to be (though Beaverton's getting way too populated with by far the worst traffic in the Portland metro area!!!).

Regards...Vikd