Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

dindak

evandro : The push through room is impressive in the 04, though calling it an alternative to an SUV is a bit much.

dan : I think the 04 dash is not for everyone. People used to very conservative Honda/Buick/Toyota type dashes probably won't like it. You are right though, the materials are not the issue as they are good.

ab348

That center-stack plastic surround excepted, perhaps? ;-)

Bushwack

Of course the buttons are plastic! But the feel, design and overall appearance is sub par (as they were with the previous model). It seems more like they belong on a child's toy then a sedan sports-car wanna be.

Buick and Olds did a good job with the various plastic buttons whether on the radio, a/c or steering wheel controls. For plastic, their appearance is more classic then 'toyish'. The only reason I purchased my Regal was its 'bang for the buck' value (heck, not because I like the dull dash). Otherwise, for $7K more the Acura TL-S would have been the choice in that price range. I wanted a wolf in sheeps clothing kinda car that also had some conservative lines. With a GTP, Pontiac wants to showcase a 4 door contemporary sports car (remember the '89 Maxima ad campaigns??). Well, aside from FWD they have the right engine and suspension, but the majority of interior components are very sub par.
 
As for the exterior, I am going to back peddle a bit. All in all the car looks good. The rims is what makes the aggressive appearance. But the nose seems incomplete and the rear needs LEDs. Infiniti did a terrific job with the G35's styling. THAT is the chances GM should take with the Pontiac division. Love or hate the body clad moldings of previous generations Grand Prix's and Bonnevilles, my hats off to Pontiac for taking that leap (and both cars sold well during those model years).

dindak

I have an Intrigue and the knobs in the 04 GP feel as good if not better. I think the design of the dash (which you don't like) is maybe clouding your view on the quality of the button plastics.

One thing that does bother me though is the base GT comes with plastic wheel covers with steel wheels and no ABS. If you add those 2 options you may as well go GT2. Hence the base price on the 04 is a little deceptive. GT1 is basically the SE now I guess.

regfootball

"What should the buttons be made of then?"

better plastic.

"but the design is a little more sporty looking than some people like"

I don't think sporty is the right word there.....

evandro

I don't think that LEDs can be found in sub-30 grand car's tail-lights as commonly as in a mid-30 grand car's as the G35...

Yet, if you're really into LEDs and GM, get a CTS... ;-)

dindak

"better plastic"

Feels the same/better than the Intrigue which you yourself said was good. Ah well, I think this topic has been beaten to death.

Let's hear about how the car drives from some owners.

regfootball

I don't recall saying the Intrigue plastic was great, but I have said the car as a whole is a decent car. I still think they could have improved the plastic in that car. Might wanna see if it was someone else who said that.

Let's hear about how the car drives from some owners.

hammen2

Dan, don't buy the warranty from the dealer. At least not without shopping Capper Auto Center or one of the other places that sells GM Major Guard warranties. You don't have to buy it up front. You could also look at a third-party warranty (like Warranty Gold or 1Source), though those don't cover as much as the Major Guard (they're not as expensive either, though :-)

Hope this helps,

--Robert

dindak

All EXT warranties are a loosing game to the consumer on average. Unless you have a car that is a lemon, I too would avoid them. Leave the issue alone for now Dan.

orwoody

Only get the warranty if you plan to keep the car a while and through the dealer if they'll negotiate it to cost or so. I ended up negotiating a 6yr/75k $100 deductible for over 50% off what they said was the discounted price. Ended up paying roughly what the independents were offering - the dealer would rather sell at little or no profit than give away a sale. Besides with a GM provided warranty if you decide to trade it later you can get a refund/partial refund. Many of the independents won't offer that.

as for the plastic buttons, the only ones that bother me on the 2004 are the PW/PDL toggles. They seem a step or two down from the rocker type of the previous generation. I think the rest of the dash and console are better as well as the new HUD - which I have really missed from my 2000 GTP.

I also thought I read the Gen III could run on either regular or high test gas?

johnclineii

a. If you are going to buy the extended warranty (and I won't get into the wisdom or lack thereof of that decision), at least get the GM one. Horror stories abound about third party payers not paying. Also, there is no reason to buy it until the last time you can do so, which is right before the regular warranty expires. What if you total the car before then, trade it off or move to Britain? In any such event, you will not need to buy the warranty if you haven't already!

b. The Gen III CAN run on regular. If it is supercharged, for maximum performance, it must have premium. Why pay the extra money for the supercharger and then settle for subpar performance? The anti-knock sensor will dial back timing if regular is used.

dindak

Some small rural areas have gas pumps with no premium. It's nice to have the option of going regular if you're in a pinch. You are right though, GTPs need premium or there is no point.

dan165

Went in around 5:00 last night, signed the papers and picked up my GT-2. Unfortunately it was a bit wet from the rain, but it was all washed up with nice shiny black tires. I decided to skip the extended warranty, I've never thought they were a good deal especially since cars are made so much better these days.

My wife and I drove into downtown Toronto and cruised around in it. We got lots of looks as there are really none of these on the road yet, though I have noticed the advertising has started. We stopped in for dinner and parked the car on the street right out front. I think I took about 2 or 3 looks out the window to check on it.

The car drives very well. Highway cruising is effortless and city driving is much better than the SUVs I've been driving. Car corners very well and everything feels solid. Like others have mentioned I wish dual zone was available, but that said, when we go on trips we usually take our SUV which has it. This car will be my daily driver and I have a feeling I will enjoy it!!

It's a great car guys, highly recommend people at least take a test before dismissing it. I used to put down domestics, but they have come a long way and this car is proof. Some can say what they like about the dash but it's very functional and well made. The red glow at night is very cool.

vcjumper

I actually think the Accord has a more modern looking dash design.. 04 GP stereo and hvac controls look like standard parts bin from any GM vehicle in the last 10 years.

regfootball

just checking, is that good or bad?

johnclineii

Yes.

dindak

Ya, stereo looks very Delco and the hvac controls look very similar to the ones in our Alero. I think they are fine though, no reason to re-invent the wheel. Delco re-did all of the stereos a couple of years ago and they are pretty up to date with RDS and all.

vcjumper

I guess its the corporate look but its getting pretty stale. No need to change the innards but new faces would be nice.

evandro

I don't know about the Accord's controls tilted up, they look so much like a washer's controls... And then there are those ridiculously small stereo controls...

dan165

It's amazing how easily some people here get derailed from the real important part of a car, how it drives. Nit picking about the plastic quality on every knob and which parts bin they came from, wow.

Any of the 04 owners have any comments on how their car drives? Any one take a test yet? Let's move this discussion on boys!

Took the GP over to my buddy's house. He is a real car guy and is driving a Maxima right now. He was impressed, but I think he would look at a GTP. He told me he wasn't too thrilled with the new 04 Max looks at all.

fred707

I agree totally. I have stated numerous times in this board about this stupid argument over knobs and plastic. If you want to get into detail. Let me state. Are the knobs on my Comp-G fully functional for my flintstone fingers (YES) Do I look at the stereo and think Hmmm Does this radio look retro ? (NO)

Let me address Radio - Most people get after market radio's installed. And the delco uses an integrated XM tuner.

The drive- Firmer on the Comp-G than GT 1-2. The seats wrap you with love. The experience wonderful. The ride far surpasses my 00 Accord, The car is worth a drive. When you drive it and you need to feel compelled to dis-mantle it you than have that right. But drive all of em and see how they feel.

Make a list and check off what you liked and disliked. If you end up checking a car off because it has "Not up to date controls" and you choose a car with less performance because of better buttons. I will ask the moderator to add a "I like the buttons on my car, that lacks perfomance" group

dindak

Too funny. So right.

I'll have to take a test after my CFA exams on May 31st. Just no time before that.

Glad you are enjoying the cars.

gasoline

I read that GM states that the NA 3.8L does 0-60 in 8.5 sec. This seems awfully slow to me.
I own a 01 impala (3800 Series II) and chevy claimed that it could do it in 7.7 sec. Is the Series III engine slower even with an extra 5 lb/ft boost (230 lb/ft vs. 225 lb/ft)
I have even read that 97-03 model Grand Prix GT's doing 0-60 in about 7.6 sec.
Hell there are 4 cylinder Accord's and Altimas doing 0-60 in the range of 8.5-9.0 seconds with much less hp and torque.
The 04 and 03 models are approx. the same weight and have similar gear ratios.

vcjumper

GP is a much heavier car than the 4 cylinder imports, and heavier than the model it replaced too. Maybe GM is just being conservative with their numbers.

vcjumper

If performance is all that mattered we would all be driving WRX's.

RE: Most people install aftermarket stereos. The fact that many cars have very nicely integrated stereos now, or in GM's case have stereos that control things like air bags doesn't make it easy these days. I would say 1 in 10 grown adults I know install aftermarket stereos in their cars. 25 years old and under the percentage would be higher but what 25 and under person wants to drive a 3600lb car?

dindak

"If performance is all that mattered we would all be driving WRX's"

Ya..not. I think the point you missed was, too much time is being spent discussing the knobs on the dash and nothing else.

dan165

I have not taken the GP to extremes yet as I want the brakes to get worn in and the engine to break in a little. The car does not feel slow in anyway though I have not done a 0-60 test. I think the car does feel faster from 0-30 or 40 than the Accord did but that probably has to do with the engine type.

No issues to report yet. Looking forward to a trip up north for this long weekend. Still getting lots of looks, have not seen another 04 on the road yet. Other GP drivers seem to be the most interested.

orwoody

I don't know about the official numbers but (my opinion based on 20 minute test drives) the 2004 GT and GTP both seem/feel quicker than my 2003 GT. They are on par if not a notch better than my 2000 GTP, but deliver the feeling with more control. I think GM is being conservative or publishing wrong numbers.

fred707

Just left the track with my Comp G and ran a 14.135@100mph stock. Great time little cool so that helped alot. And the reason why you seem slower in an 03 vs an 04 is 20 more horses and 20 more lbs of torque. I plan on adding a Borla exhaust and an SLP air intake system. Should cut my time down greatly

ruski

no, torque on '04 is the same 280 lbs*ft as on the '03.

vcjumper

Is not standard on the GTP up here, its a $1250 option on a $34K car. Is the GTP fabric the same old Dodge Neon style fabric like the lower models?

ab348

Sadly, it appears so. I picked up a GP brochure yesterday (after the salesman said they didn't have any; I look at the rack and there they are - I won't be dealing with *that* guy) and all they show is the uglycloth (TM Regd.) in either parchment ofr graphite, or leather in the same tones.

Interestingly, the parchment interior appears to have a lot of graphite accents. I'm going by the brochure since this dealer had only graphite models in stock. Hopefully it will look better in person than it does in the brochure.

I dunno guys; I know you want to talk about things other than the interior but in sitting in one yesterday I really was unimpressed. Aside from the hard plastic on the dash, that center console is the same hard material. I think they missed the mark.

johnclineii

Well, that interior caused me to only consider other cars. And I doubt I am alone.

I don't want leather, and I refuse to put up with that juvenile cloth. Something a bit more tasteful might not have rubbed me that way.

Then again, I also have issues with what passes for a backseat.

Had a 98 GTP, was determined to buy an 04. Won't be happening.

dindak

You guys really are nit picking the interior to death. Take the car for a ride for petes sake. If you hate the car so much, say so and leave it alone.

Aside from the so so designs in the seat material I think the interior is just fine.

orwoody

I like the 2004 much better since I drove them. My opinion on the choice of pattern on the cloth is that it makes the car look cheap... I would not buy the std cloth. The leather is a couple steps up from the previous (what is in my 2003) and on par with my wife's Volvo and several BMWs, Toyotas., Nissons, Mercedes...I've been in. They are also much more comfortable seats than previous. (but still not as comfy as the multiway I had on the 96 Bonneville)
As for the Parchment interior, yes many/most of the interior dash and trim pieces are the gray/charcoal. After being at the dealer several times now(for oil changes on my other rigs) and driving both a GTP and GTP w/comp pkg; I'd get the Charcoal interior if I bought one. The unit they had at our Auto show had the parchment and it shows dirt too well. The seats were showing color on the seat from people's trousers and jeans.
   As much as I like the sport red, polo green, I really like the 2004 in Black. I'm not even a black car fan... but this car looks good in it and even the comp 10 spoke wheels are looking less offensive.

regfootball

considering as how a person can spend 400 hours or more a year in a car I don't understand why having some standards and 'nitpicking' (or rather, being selective) on interiors is unreasonable.

oldsman01

I'm one to nitpick a car's interior myself, but I also consider the class of car. To me, the new GP's interior isn't all that much off mark from other car's in it's class. Well, except for that terrible cloth. Although the leather more than makes up for it as the leather used on the 04 is a much higher grade than in the past. I remember when the Cadillac CTS first came out, alot of people criticized it's interior because it was not a Lexus/Audi/BMW carbon copy. Now you hear very little complaining about the CTS interior other than it's lack of a temp gauge(which Cadillac has already corrected). Here's some food for thought for Pontiac; upgrade the cloth on the new GP and offer automatic climate control on high end models. So in closing the new GP's interior may not be perfect but it's certainly not the worst by any means.

jmr001

Went Saturday and got a new 2004 GTP. GM was offering an early lease turn in My lease was due up in October 2003. Turned in the car with GM picking up the balance of the lease payments.

Test drove a GTP with silver exterior and dart pewter leather interior. Drove very nice. Quiet, little road noise and very little wind noise. I was really impressed.

Also test drove a GT-2. The ride to me was alot different than the GTP. The engine noise was louder and more road noise.

I got the GTP. The GTP is well worth the extra cost. It had the 6 cd changer Monsoon radio. Very nice sound. Better sound than the Monsoon radio in my 2002 Passat.

The front seats are very confortable. I didn't sit in the back seat, the only one who will sit back there is my grandson who sits in a booster seat.

All in all I think the car is great. I'm very happy.

As for the interior plastic, it doesn't measure up to the interior of my Passat, but it comes close.

johnclineii

I drive 50,000 miles a year, sometimes more. And last I checked, I spend most of the time I drive in the INterior of the car. I do not like or want leather.

I would happily buy a GTP today IF the interior were acceptable to me. That is hardly nitpicking.

If GM doesn't know why people who have already bought GTP's in the past are buying imports this time, they need to. They do read this forum.

I currently own a GM product. Before that, I owned a GTP. I have also owned a Nissan Maxima SE. Mr. Lutz's cheapening of the interior on the Impala has already driven me off from one GM product (not even a light on the PRNDL on the console anymore, sheesh)

I also agree about the automatic climate control. My 98 GTP had it. Every other car I am looking at has it. The GTP does not. What's up with that?

So, again, it isn't nitpicking. It's a 25 to 30 thousand dollar (US)purchase. I have my standards, you have yours.

It's only fair to let GM know why they lost a sale. Yes, I have written them, but I honestly believe they pay more attention to comments here.

In my book, that cloth belongs in a circus, not a new car aimed at the demographics that the Grand Prix is allegedly aimed at. Why a circus, you might ask? Because, to me at least, it is clownish. That is not the image I want in a car that already has some asking if one who buys it is going through a mid-life crisis! I don't really care what others think of my cars, but I do not need to go out of my way to look silly, and I would also have to look at that cloth every single day I owned the car. Yuck.

vcjumper

Most of the ones I've seen list for over 40K CAD. Those have automatic climate control don't they, I thought it was just dual zone they were missing? I guess it does have the DIC and HUD. Thats more expensive than the base CTS, G35, etc list for.

dindak

I think the point I was making is, some people like it, you don't, nuff said (and I certainly respect your opinion). Why keep posting the same comments over and over though?

I agree with you jmr001, the interior plastics are decent. I think people automatically (and based on the past), step into a GP and are immediately scrutinizing the dash. No one would ever do that to a Passat. Sit in the GP back to back with any mid-size car and you will see there isn't much quality difference.

The seat patterns aren't great though, I would have to go leather. Maybe it's a plot to sell more leather??

;-)

fred707

How did you manage to get GMAC to offer a pull ahead on your 2004. As far as I knew it would only qualify for 2003 models. I was denied my request from GM when I tried to pull ahead and I was told basically tough crap. So I rolled the last 4 payments I had into the car. But with my down payment that solved that problem. When it comes to Interior. I have to agree the cloth leaves a bit to be desired in looks. The cloth seat material looks like the material used in the roof lining. Have not sat in one and just do not know if it is the same. Anyone have an idea? Have not seen cloth on the showroom yet.

montanafan

The pull ahead program which started on the 15th of May, allows you to get 2002, 2003, 2004 Chev,Pont,Olds,Caddy,Buick, GMC, or Saturn.

dan165

Just came back from a weekend trip in cottage country. Thoroughly enjoyed driving the new GP around up there, lots of looks from people in the towns we visited. We came out of the grocery store to find some people looking it over. I spoke with one of the guys who told me he was interested in getting one but was going to wait until the summer when his lease on his Intrepid was done.

Still a lot of talk about the interior. I find it funny that supposed car enthusiasts are picking apart the interior rather than driving one. I really don't mind the seat patterns at all and the seats you could sit in them for hours guys.

Congrats on the GTP "jmr001". I like the GTP, but I didn't want to spend the extra $ as the GT-2 is plenty fast for me.

regfootball

regardless if the car drives decent, if the plastic looks cheap, the plastic will still look cheap even if the car goes like stink.

i.e. if your girlfriend is 'friendly' but still unattractive, no matter how 'friendly' she is doesn't hide the fact that she's ugly.

gunit

i know there is a lot of people that will NOT buy a new GP because it is ONLY a 4 door. That question came up many times at the NYC Javitts convention annual car show. Of course the Pontiac Reps had no answer. I heard it was lack of sales on the 2 door. But yet, Pontiac continues to make the 2 door Sunfire and Grand Am. I had a 1997 GTP coupe that I traded in on my leftover 2002 GTP coupe. I was going to buy a 2003 GTP, but then heard the coupe was cancelled, so I luckily found a leftover 02 coupe and got a great deal on it.

I will NEVER be buying a Grand Prix again unless the coupe is brought back. Looks alot sportier and appealing to me then another 4 door family mobile.

I like the GTP coupe, because it had ALOT more room then a transam or mustang and was much better in the snow with front drive and about 20% less to insure then a Mustang V8 or Camaro V8. The 2 door sunfire and Grand Am are too small.

Yes GM has the Monte carlo, but that is butt ugly compared to the GTP.

The GTO doesn't have enough style, plus higher price, MY GTP coupe looks better.

gunit

Coupes were about 20% of the sales from 1997-2002. Another loss for GM.

regfootball

The GTO fills the coupe void for Pontiac quite nicely and should be looker when we finally get to see it, even if its a little melted looking.

dindak

gunit : 20% sounds optimistic. I'd be surprised if 10% of the GPs I see are coupes.

Reg : Looks are in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone has your tastes thankfully. I think the dash looks great (aside from the bubble).