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  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Ah man, you had to rub it in huh? That's okay, I'm sure it will be the next car I get in about 2-3 years from now, and I can live with "much faster" when it equates to fractions of seconds anyway! Glad that it was fun to drive. I'd love to try one just for comparison's sake (though my wife would kill me because she'd be convinced I'd trade the 545 in for a new 550!) I bet you're right that it's closer to the 2002 M5 performance. Hell, it might even be as fast. The '02 M5 had 394 HP at 6600 RPMs and 368 ft/lbs of torque at 3800 RPMs and weighed 4023 lbs. The 550 has 360 HP at 6300 RPMs, 360 ft/lbs of torque at 3400 RPMs and weighs 3803 lbs. So with the 200 lbs weight difference we're probably splitting hairs with perfomance in terms of speed at least.
  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    I searched the forums but couldn't find any recent posts on the use of regular vs. premium grades of gas in a 530. Does the talked about loss of engine efficiency i.e. poorer gas mileage completely offset the savings?
  • There were some posts about it, but I couldn't find them (I was looking for them several weeks ago). IIRC, not only does the mileage suffer, but over time the valves (?) wear as a result of the adjustments the engine makes to prevent knock. Whatever you save now you'll just be paying later in repairs, and that tradeoff is not worth it. I'll suck it up and buy premium, even though I'm going to be putting 52+ miles a day on the car just driving my son to and from school. That doesn't include picking up my daughter in the afternoons, or any other driving I have to do. :(
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,457
    You're driving a $50,000 BMW and are worried about saving $3.60 every fill up (assuming you put 18 gallons of gas in your car). No matter what the price is, the difference between regular and Premium is about $.20 per gallon.

    Put the Premuim in!

    You'll also get noticibably less performance and worse gas mileage on regular.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Well, coming back from a 'disconnected' holiday spent on the mountains… I have found that the liter of diesel fuel costs now 1 € in Spain. That totals 3.78 € (4.54 $) • gallon. Any class of gasoline costs here even more. (By the way, petrol price in Spain is one of the cheapest in Europe.)

    Thus, I keep skipping lunch everyday since then. I can tie my belt one more hole by now. To further economize, I also keep driving slower. I cannot say which of these nasty behaviors is making me more unhappy and irritable!

  • I only paid $39K for mine new. I guess I am more frugile than you.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,321
    In the USA, 5 series sales were up 32.1% for one year and up 10.6% year to date.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,321
    Mea culpa. The 5 series sales were up 10.6% comparing first 8 months 0f 2005 to 2004, not up 10.6% year to date. :blush:
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    It`s the lack of food..Tony
  • Gee, I dunno about that. Driving slowly makes me pretty cranky. (Jose, why don't you pack your lunch and eat in?)
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Hmm, I rather skip lunch than a glass of wine at dinner! ;) Neither can I deny some fuel to my bimmer.

    I am going to slowly drive at the seaside to the very nice town of San Sebastian this afternoon to spend the week-end and then work there the first three days of the next week. San Sebastian has a very solid reputation in gastronomy, which makes me pretty miserable in my present condition.


    PS. Please receive you all my empathy because of the Katrine disaster.
  • Just came from gassing up, and paid $3.69 for a gallon of premium.

    Went out about 5am thinking I would avoid the long lines and hit a 24-hr gasoline station. They’re not 24-hrs anymore; the lower-priced gas stations are not selling gas overnight. I guess this is an effort to conserve their supply.

    The pricier gas stations were open and selling gas.

    I thought things would be different.

    I remember back in the 70's when there were long gas lines, and that’s because gas stations back then weren’t 24 hrs. You couldn’t drive up to a gas station at 3am and “fill her up”; and I thought that led to the long gas lines that I remember from back then.

    I figures now a days with the 24-hr gas stations there would not be a recurrence of those gas lines, or at least not to the length that they were back in the 70's, but if 24-hr gas stations aren’t going to be selling overnight, then I wonder: “Will the long gas lines of the 70's return in this new millennium?”.

    Somebody once said “what’s old is new again”!

    Thoughts anybody?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I just paid 3.19 for premium and I nearly choked. I've seen it as high as $3.97. Gas stations vary wildly in the price they are charging as much as $1/gallon. The Hess station was under $3/gallon for premium, but as you can imagine the place was packed. I've never seen gas stations so packed.

    The long weekend and peoples fears of a gas shortage are causing thie run.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,321
    What can I do to put you in this lovely 4 cylinder Honda Civic today? ;)
  • pen101pen101 Posts: 238
    ok, the other day I went to the beach. Took the canyon route. It is a 15 mile 2-lane curvy road with a few passing lanes up and over the mountains. There were 3 of us in the car (2002 530 SP 5-sp). The car handled the fast turns like a dream. There are also some steep grades to clear. I miss the days when I would take this road in my turbo Supra, spool up the turbo to full psi, double down shift and then let it go. The car would shoot forward like a sling shot to pass even on the steepest inclines. However, in the BMW, in order to pass with authority on the steep grade, it takes a lot longer to increase speed requiring more planning and strategy. Its times like this that gets me thinking that I should have gotten the 540 instead. Then when I returned home, I passed a gas station selling 91 octane at $3.39. I checked the gas mileage on the trip computer and it said 27.2 mpg. Then I thought that the 530 is not so bad after all.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,559
    requiring more planning and strategy

    Let's just say it takes more skill...

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • IIRC, lines were long in the seventies because there really was a shortage. This time around, there are rumors of one. So far they are only rumors...but human nature being what it is, we never let the facts get in the way of a good story, do we? (The more things change, the more they stay the same?) Hence, the run on gas.

    ABTW, the reporter who said Katrina is our tsunami was right. I've heard accounts from family of survivors, and they say that whatever you're seeing on TV doesn't do it justice--it's really a good ten times as bad as what we see. I just can't wrap my brain around that kind of destruction.
  • Recently ordered and received the 2006 525XI sleek, wonderful looking car. Sand exterior dealer called Olivin Green with tan leather interior with all the bells and whistles, to die for. I purchased it about a month ago, for the BMW experience, unfortunately I haven't been able to experience very much because I've had to bring this car in for service three times with an average stay of 4days. Approximately four days after pick-up the car's service engine light appeared, then the car began cutting off on me, the vanos unit was supposedly the culprit they went in and reset something. However, that did not work so I was back in a few days at which time they replaced something. Then the i-drive malfunctioned and I could not operate the radio, navigation, etc. However, I was still able to drive! Great! I took it back in for this problem to be addressed and it was held for six days to resolve the problem. So recently got it back and waiting to see. $50,000.00 car and it feels like I purchased a lemon. :mad: :confuse:
  • awaxawax Posts: 8
    I am in the Air Force and stationed overseas. I can order a 2006 M5 through BMWs military sales for delivery at any dealer in the US. I was quoted $83,000 for the 2006 M5 with every option available delivered in Jan/Feb 2006.

    Since I can't visit dealerships in the US, I am having trouble determining if this is a fair deal. I have tried to phone a few dealerships. As expected, they are very cautious with telephone call inquiries.

    Does anyone have any feedback for me? Good price? Are M5s expected to be a hot seller for dealerships? Limited supply?

    My other option is to go with a 2006 550i for $63,000.

    Thanks for the help!
  • I'm no expert on this, but I searched online, and I found one site that claims an invoice price of $74,070 and a "retail/target" price of $81,200. But it doesn't specify whether that's MSRP or how the car is equipped. There are any number of sites that say they will give you quotes if you are willing to identify yourself to them, but I don't know whether you actually can do it before the car is officially available. And as you can't even build your own on the BMW website (I tried), I'm guessing it's not yet officially available.
  • I have a question, I have a 2006 530xi on order. I called BMWNA and the info is the car is it is in the body shop with estimated completion date of 9/8. Does this mean my car will have the september upgrades? IE:the new start/stop button and the enhanced dsc+. My dealer says it will, but I just wanted all of your opinons on the matter. Thanks
  • you can build a 550 though on as a point of reference though.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282

    How about this deal? You order an M5 for delivery to me and I will get a 550i for you plus hand you the $20k difference in small unmarked bills.

    As far as I know, BMW never offered any European Delivery discount on the previous M5 or current M3. As such, and knowing that the previous M5 sold for around $75k with all options, the $83k price you have been quoted sounds very, very good.

    By comparison, your $63k 550i quote sounds bad. I have priced out a 550i 6-speed with sport pacakge, premium sound package, cold weather package, navigation system and satellite radio. US MSRP is $65,340. The ED MSRP would be $61,320 ($4,020 savings). However, my dealer has agreed to sell it at $1,500 over the ED invoice price, or roughly $57,500. That happens to be the exact same price I am more likely to be paying for a Boxster S to supplement my perfectly acceptable Acura TL 6-speed. But it is very tempting to go for the 550i and I still can't figure out why some are paying upwards of $50-$54k for a 530i.

    I would jump all over that fully optioned M5 at $83k. If you decide you don't like it, you could probably sell it on E-bay for $100k, given the very limited supply and long wait some of the early adaptors will be facing. My (small) dealer has 6 on the waiting list ahead of me and they only expect to get 3-4 per year.
  • what dealer gave u that deal?
  • Hey,
    Anybody know if a 88 528e automatic is a decent ride with a 212k on it? Its a one owner car in good shape. I've always liked older BMW's. Will this car be reliable. It has the 2.7 6 cylinder motor. I drive about 8000 miles a year, I need to get about 2 years out of it without it nickel and diming me to death if you know what I mean.
    Will this be a high mantience car? Does it reguire any special oil filter's or anything like that. I looked online and prices for parts don't seem to cost anymore than any other car does. Any suggestions?
    d miller
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,559
    If you are worried about "nickel and diming", then you might want to avoid this car. BMWs from the '80s, while nice rides, are fairly maintenance intensive.

    And... any car with 212K miles will be a crapshoot.

    Could I suggest a nice '92 Honda Accord with around 120K miles? I'm seeing a lot of those around my area with asking prices from $3K-$4K... Something like that would have a lot better chance of seeing you through a couple of years.. and would be much easier to sell, when you had to get rid of it.

    Something tells me the price of that BMW might be around $1500, though you didn't say...

    Host--Prices Paid Forums

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    M5 price with every option is $92,475, including destination... tack on an additional $3000 for gas guzzler tax, and you're over $95,000.

    If you're getting a car that in demand for $12,000 under sticker, then I'd call that the deal of a lifetime.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I have had the $1,500 over ED invoice offer from several BMW dealerships in PA and Maryland. My small hometown dealer is who I specifically discussed the 550i with, but they don't want it to be advertised that they discount the ED prices, so I won't name them.

    However, I was previously quoted $1,500 over ED invoice by Passport in Maryland on a 5 series, and I believe they have been recommended by others in the Edmunds forum. I believe someone posted some time ago that they got $1,200 over ED invoice on a 3 series.

    It is a completely bogus line that 'ED prices are not negotiable", even though several DC area dealers still try to stick to that pitch. In fact, for high demand cars, going ED is about the only way you can get a good deal. The cars do not come out of their limited US allocations and yet count towards their sales bonuses.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    What is your info source for M5 pricing?
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'd say don't buy it unless you can do perform most of the maintenance and repairs yourself. The 1988 528e is the best of the eta engine cars. Unlike other BMW engines the eta was designed to maximize low-end torque and fuel economy. The E28(1982-1988) fives are still quite popular and most parts are readily available. I'd still have the car checked out by a good BMW tech, and I'd also put @$2000 in a money market account to cover maintenance and any problems over the next two years. Whatever you do, join the BMW Car Club. Members get discounts on parts/labor from many dealers and vendors and you'll also be able to tap into a vast wealth of E28 knowledge. And one more thing; if that 5er really is for sale for $1500, I'll take it if you don't want it!
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    It was posted on m5board (another site) a while back.
  • awaxawax Posts: 8
    For a fully loaded M5, KBB lists:

    Invoice: $87,075.00
    MSRP: $95,125.00

    The price I was quoted and guaranteed was $83,000.00 delivered to any dealership in the US. I have committed cash to the order but am considering backing out.

    For the 550i that I priced out, KBB lists:

    Invoice: $63,335.00
    MSRP: $69,325.00

    I was quoted $63,000 even.

    I am still pretty edgy about spending this much cash.

    How does the gas guzzler tax work? The M5 lists a $3000.00 tax. Do I pay for the tax or does the final MSRP include the tax and BMW just forwards the money? Is this a federal tax?

    Thanks everyone for the help and advice.

  • From link title:

    "The Energy Tax Act of 1978 established a Gas Guzzler Tax on the sale of new model year vehicles whose fuel economy fails to meet certain statutory levels. The gas guzzler tax applies only to cars (not trucks) and is collected by the IRS...The tax does not depend on your actual on-the-road mpg, which may be more or less than the EPA published value. The purpose of the Gas Guzzler Tax is to discourage the production and purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles. The amount of any applicable Gas Guzzler Tax paid by the manufacturer will be disclosed on the automobile's fuel economy label (the window sticker on new cars).

    Unadjusted MPG(combined)* Tax
    at least 22.5 No tax
    at least 21.5, but less than 22.5 $1000
    at least 20.5, but less than 21.5 $1300
    at least 19.5, but less than 20.5 $1700
    at least 18.5, but less than 19.5 $2100
    at least 17.5, but less than 18.5 $2600
    at least 16.5, but less than 17.5 $3000
    at least 15.5, but less than 16.5 $3700
    at least 14.5, but less than 15.5 $4500
    at least 13.5, but less than 14.5 $5400
    at least 12.5, but less than 13.5 $6400
    less than 12.5 $7700

    * The combined fuel economy MPG value (55 % city, 45 % highway) is used to determine tax liability. The MPG value is also adjusted slightly to account for differences in test procedures made since the base year. The MPG value is not adjusted for in-use short fall. The unadjusted combined MPG of a vehicle can be approximated from the city and highway values provided in the Fuel Economy Guide and on this website by the following equation:

    (1/(.495/city MPG + .351/highway MPG))+.15

    Since this is an approximate calculation, the actual gas guzzler tax may be off by one tax bracket."

    Hope this helps.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It appears that something clearly is out of whack with the price quotes you have been given on the 550i and M5.

    On the M5, you have been quoted $4,000+ BELOW US invoice! Relatively speaking, this is a phenominal deal on a limited production vehicle with a 1-2+ year waiting list. I suspect most M5's will be sold at full MSRP or above for the foreseeable future in the US, meaning for that particular car, you are $12,000 ahead of what everyone else will be looking at.

    On the 550i, you are being qouted $300 under US invoice. Relatively speaking, this is a far less attractive deal, compared to what I know I can do through one of several dealers who are willing to discount the ED price. I would be at roughly $2,500 below US invoice ($1,500 over ED invoice), beating your price by more than $2,000.

    Like I said, something is out of whack for them to be quoting you an almost criminally suspicious deal on a limited production M5, versus a deal that any average [non-permissible content removed] like me with decent negotiating skills and a willingness to travel to Germany can handily beat on a mass production 550i.

    As to your edginess about parting with that much cash, that's something you'll need to come to terms with. I am having the same difficulty deciding between a $60k Boxster S and $100k 911S Cabriolet. I can afford either, but that's still a lot of cash with other opportunity costs. But if someone offered me the 911 S at a deal comparable to your M5 deal, I'd jump all over it, knowing that in the worst case, I can sell the car without taking a big loss. If you look at it that way, the M5 is by far the "cheaper" car, based upon your price quotes.

    What I can possibly suggest is that you uncheck a couple of the option boxes on the M5 and get the price at or below $80k. There are definitely some superfluous items on that list. And the thought of a 2006 M5 at a price that is nominally above the former model would be tempting to Mother Teresa.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    There's a picture, Mother Teresa driving an M5. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • awaxawax Posts: 8
    Thanks for the info and insight Habitat1.

    A quick question...What is "ED invoice"? Anything to do with a dealer holdback?

    Thanks again!
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    ED invoice is "European Delivery" price which one would pay if he/she were to purchase the car through US dealer and arrange for Munich delivery. The car is then shipped back to the US dealer which BMW arranges. AKA Tourist delivery.

    BMW does not have dealer hold back.

    When I was considering buying the last production run of the 2003 M5 through the diplomat/military purchase, the price quoted was $63,400, which had US MSRP of $71,095, so I'd say the "deal" is not so good anymore. I still beat myself up for not buying then. when I was shopping for CPO 03 M5 earlier this year, some had higher price tag than the brand new one I could have gotten in Germany. :mad:
  • sefhsefh Posts: 1
    Hi, I'm really curious about your message as I understand the 550i has NOT been produced yet. The Automatics' production start this month and the 6-speed and SMG models not until October.

    How is it that you were able to test drive a 550i in August? Can you tell us more about it?


  • Mark,

    Thanks for your reply. If you must know why I would own an auto, I have shoulder issues (essentially no cartilage left - surgeries not much help at this point) where any repetitive action (think using a computer mouse) causes chronic problems. Virtually all the cars I owned until about 8 years ago were standards, but I have been relegated to an auto after the problems started. Having been athletically very active my entire life, not being able to drive a stick is the least of my concerns.

    Anyway, thanks for the info on the Tip lag.
  • The car I drove was a European car owned by a BMW executive. However, he assured me that it was virtually identical to the US model coming into the states later this year. The engine used in the 550 is the same as the one that has already made it here in the 750 and will also be in the 650.

    From my brief test drive, the first thing I noticed was the nearly instantaneous throttle response. That was one of the subtle things that influenced me to get an M5 over the 545i back in late 2002. The 545i seemed powerful enough, but you had to push it a bit. The M5 just jumps to life and is more responsive in every way - handling and accleration. The new 550i appears to capture some of that subtlety. I only hope the engine responsiveness will not decline with the addition of US emissions.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    A reporter is looking to interview folks who recently bought, ordered, or are considering ordering an AWD BMW 5-Series, Cadillac STS4, Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic, Audi A6 Quattro or Lexus GS300 AWD and is getting the car to replace an SUV. Please respond to [email protected] no later than Thursday, September 15, 2005 with your daytime contact information and the makes/models of the vehicles coming and going in your life at this time.
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    I think you must mean the 540i in 2002 seeing as the 545i wasn't produced until 2004. I'd hope that the M5 is more responsive in every way. I mean, it only costs about $20K more than the 545 (or now the 550). You'd like to think that you'd get something more for a price difference like that!
  • mp2mp2 Posts: 5
    They replaced three sets not 3 tires, They also replaced steering rack assembly, I still have vibrations, It is better than before, worst when car is cold, better after first 5 to 10 miles, I now have 1200 miles only on my car, I may go to BMW of NA and see they will replace the car.

  • They had mine for two more days and basically came back that there is nothing that can be done. They attributed it to how the all wheel drive functions. The vibration I experience is similar to a tuning fork (slight but very rapid) and you can hear the vibration easily. It's especially prevalent from 45-65 MPH. Let me know what you find.
  • tt Posts: 7
    'However, my dealer has agreed to sell it at $1,500 over the ED invoice price, or roughly $57,500.''


    I was quoted only $500 off MSRP by a dealer in S CA last night on a 550i. Would you please let me know your dealer info so I can order this car from them.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282

    Passport BMW in Maryland will discount ED prices. My hometown dealer in PA does not want to advertise that they discount ED prices, so I am honoring that request.

    However, since you are in California, you really need to find a California dealership that will discount ED prices (or at least one relatively nearby, but not on the east coast). At one time, there was a website "" run by Steve Diamond who, I believe, lived in California and, for a reasonable fee, arranged discounted European Delivery for BMW purchasers through his dealer contacts. Not sure if he's still around, but you might want to "Google" him.

    I hope I was clear and that you do understand that the price I was quoted was for BMW's "European Delivery" program, and that it requires you to pick up the car at the factory in Germany yourself.
  • Previously it was possible to order an ED car from one dealer and have it delivered to another dealer.
  • you know anything about Michelin XGT Z4s?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,559
    All-season Z-rated tire... They've been around forever... kind of low-tech, though I'm sure they have been updated since I had them in '92... :surprise:

    If you want all-seasons, why not Michelin Pilot Sport A/S?

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

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