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Comments
There is no any better than 91 at the average gas station in CA.
Traction with FWD and appropriate winter tires is not the problem, skidding and slipping and having DSTC save your [non-permissible content removed] is the key. AWD won't save you from understeering into a snowbank. DSTC will. Of course an extremely skilled driver with a handbrake and programming your brain to accelerate when sliding can do the trick too.
But I'll stick with DSTC.
Went to see the new T5 and that yellowish new colour, in T5 trim with improved luxury trimand those gorgeous 18" wheels, looks damn tempting. Can I live with FWD again, though? I was kinda thining an R was in the cards but I am inclined to beleive that with 257bhp and about 300lbs lighter, the T5 may be closer to the R than many beleive.
Powerband is different though.
According to the official Volvo website, the base 2.4 and T5 use the 2.4L engine, and the 2.5T and R use the 2.5L engine.
1. Assuming order is placed totally fresh?
2. Assuming the dealer modifies an existing order with Volvo that has not been 'built' yet?
Thanks!
All 05 orders must be in by the middle of April.
Flash Green is no longer available on the R.
Background
I am currently at the end of a 3-year lease on a Porsche Boxster S. When we got the Boxster, we did not have a child. Lo and behold, the very next year into the lease we realized we were expecting a child. We managed with a 2-seater and another 'beater' car, a Mazda 626 with a child now 1-yr old. Now that we are a true family, we started looking for new car with some pizzazz.
Specs of Car Wanted
Since the Porsche was terribly terrible in the lightest of snow, I decided the next car should be an AWD. We are not much into minivans and SUVs or even Estate Wagons...so a Sedan it must be. Here is what we are looking for IDEALLY: AWD, manual (no Autos, tiptronics, thank you please), 4-doors (hence a Sedan), with decent trunk space, and below $40K.
I test drove the following in recent weeks:
1. Chrysler 300C
2. Audi A4
3. Subaru Legacy GT
4. Ford Escape Hybrid (Got gas mileage but no thanks)
5. Volvo S60R
6. Acura TL
I did not consider Infiniti G35x, Mercedes 4-matics, BMW M3, and some others since most of these overrated ‘premium’ brands are either woefully lacking in power, or do not offer a manual for the AWD drivetrain or are just RWD. Too bad.
Feedback
Chrysler 300C – well appointed, held firm on curves, but somehow feels like a fad and somewhat gargantuan. Nimbleness and large proportions are mutually exclusive; hence it is unlikely that one will mistake the 300C for a sports sedan. Put in a large motor to get more mileage in bragging rights. Somehow sense some dissonance in the typical 300C driver buyer’s remorse?
Audi A4 2.0T – would have considered the 3.2 but Audi has unwisely chosen to not offer a manual shift on the 3.2. Here’s one customer less for the 3.2 at least. I test drove the 2.0T twice. First time nice, second time not so nice. The first time I found the interior to be impeccable, the engine to be responsive and smooth. The second time I found the interior somewhat uncomfortable since the leather seats seems a little too firm, the space in the back seat limited with a babysat (especially the shoulder area) and the trunk also dimensionally challenging. My wife could not find her comfort zone with this car this time, although in the past she favored the A4 quite a bit, after having driven the previous version. Looks like Audi’s out. I was quite certain this would be our ‘fallback’ car, if others did not work out.
Subaru Legacy GT – in order to save money on our next car purchase, the GT was my theoretical choice, however, after several test drives and having seen some new Legacy’s on the road, I decided this is somewhat of an unimpressive car, although not a bad car. It just does not have the panache and grace of the Europeans. I did enjoy the zippy feel of this car, but I could not find my comfort zone in this car’s seating position. I don’t understand why the head rest (restraint) is so far back that one almost never manages to use it. What’s the point? Some other cars like the BMW 528i that we had allowed the head rest to be moved forward so as to actually offer some support. Bottom line: I could not imagine myself driving the SLGT for 3 years.
Ford Escape Hybrid – considered it during a moment of insanity. Thankfully that moment has lapsed.
Acura TL – read great reviews, saw that Consumer Reports rated this car their top pick (interestingly an esteemed reviewer like CR had to withdraw one of it TOP TEN picks that was published in its most recent issue, AFTER some test results came out AFTER the issue was already in circulation – God bless the poor saps who used the Top 10 pick to pick that ill-fated car but are not aware of CR’s change of stance). Coming back to the TL, I found the front interior quite spacious, although the rear is fairly tight in space. The cabin is well appointed and quite luxurious to the tactile senses. Has enough of gizmos and gewgaws to lure the uninitiated. The test drive brought my high expectations for this car come crashing down. How CR rated this as their top pick beats the **** out of me. When I took this car out on the highway, the steering had so much play and the car was lurching dangerously along the lanes at a mere 80 mph. Perhaps the Porsche’s handling has spoilt me, but I did not sense this asynchronous effect in the other cars. It seems that the TL’s engine powers exceeds its handling prowess. Off the list it goes. Others may beg to differ, but I was literally shocked at how shaky the handling felt. Thanks but no thanks. In addition, the well versed will know that this car is only offered in FWD and the rear seats do not fold down for additional storage.
Volvo S60R – when I started the search process, this car was not even on the list, since I did not even recall having heard of this model (although later I did recollect some things). First test drive was decent. I liked the power delivery, although initially I felt somewhat uncomfortable with the interior. I initially found the seat position to be ‘high’ and found the car a little unrefined. After learning more about this car and some of its sophisticated technical features, I was inclined to give it a second look. The second test drive was more enjoyable and I then realized how comfortable the seats were. The car’s Four-C system is a true wonder and not just a hyped up marketing term. Given that this model has been around a couple of years, it also had greater pricing flexibility. The safety ratings of this car surpass most others (see IIHS and Safercar.gov). We tried the baby seat in the back and found ample room for an adult. The trunk is not too bad either and the seats also fold down for additional space. I had read in many reviews about the clutch engaging too high and also how harsh the ride is if the suspension is set to ‘Advanced’. My wife and I had a good laugh given our experiences with the Porsche. The Porsche’s clutch is TEN TIMES harder and harsher. In addition, the Porsche rattles our teeth over uneven surfaces and I have to grimace over rough spots on the road. The Volvo s60R, even if set to Advanced, is heavenly and smooth as butter. The clutch is soft like rose petals (actually the clutches on all cars I tested were very, very soft and pliable unlike the industrial strength clutch of the Porsche).
Bottom line: Our choice is the S60R since it offers a covert performance, superior seating, excellent finish, competence in almost all areas, very reasonable price and 300 bhp! For those who have not looked at this car, do yourself a favor and take two test drives.
One thing, I noticed you said your limit was $40K. The M3 costs WAY over that. Also, does the 330xi offer a manual?
I agree that the S60R is a great car, especially with the manual transmission. Its faster than any of your picks except for the 425hp version of the 300C and the M3, the seats are fabulous, the updated '05 interior is very nice, and the Dolby PL (PLII on the '05 cars) is the best stereo in the class. I cant remember if it is standard on the R or not, if it isnt, get it.
One thing, I noticed you said your limit was $40K. The M3 costs WAY over that. Also, does the 330xi offer a manual?
Response: In the list of cars we were considering, $40K was not an absolute figure; however, the M3 was out anyways since it is a coupe. Not sure if the 330xi comes with a manual, but I am not a fan of the current crop of BMW designs. In any case, the BMW 3 series looks a little underpowered in comparison to the competitors, with the exception of the M3. And they are quite expensive too. I had a 1999 BMW 528i, which was a RWD, and that too was terrible in the snow, like the Boxster. Until BMW gets rid of Chris Bangle and the other guy (van der Hooynook or something), I don't think I will consider a BMW. I get a good laugh when I see any of the latest super ugly 7 series...hee, hee!
By the way, I forgot that I also test drove a Saab 9-3 Aero. It was pretty zippy and I was quite impressed overall, although I did not experience it on the highway. After I read about Saab's miserable reliability ratings, I quickly discarded it from my list. Another big downside was that the Saabs are FWD only.
The S60R it is...Now I just need to find a good deal on one.
Some area dealers have said they have a car on order with Volvo, due in May or June, and that they can modify the car to my specs, once I make a deposit.
How can I confirm that the dealer actually has a car on order, and that the car does not belong to some other dealer's quota? I don't want to make a financial commitment and then find out that the car will be due in July or August since the dealer never had a car on order and had to place a fresh order? Normally a dealer has a 'list' of their cars but it is not really evident if it is a general list including other dealers' inventories or if the list is the dealer's own.
Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Don't want to get hosed!
They can give you a printout from the CIS system that shows the car and its equipment and anticipated arrival date.
Please note, the arrival date is a guess only. There are any number of factors that can cause that to change.
At this point an ordered car should arrive mid June.
for leasing the S60R through Volvo Finance or through
other financing companies, like Chase?
Thanks.
S60 2.4 is completely gone
S60 2.5T
-new color Willow Green
- 4C Chassis no longer available on 2.5T
- less choice in individual options
-2.5T AWD gains the Precharged Haldex unit from the V8.
S60R
-New 6 speed auto box which will allow for the full 295 ft-lbs from the engine.
_Precharged Haldex from V8 Note, these changes should make the auto R a hell of alot faster!!
-Flash Green replaced by Electric Silver
Bascially, the current AWD system on the R stars off in fwd. It only transfers power when the front wheels slip.
In the precharged system a 4 wheels start out powered. The eliminates the slipping of the front wheels. Should translate to improved traction from a stop and better 0-60 times.
I really like it on the V8.
Do the heated seats heat both your back and butt?
How bad do the brakes dust?
Has anyone installed XM rather than Sirius?
Any other oddities I need to know about?
Do the heated seats heat both your back and butt?
-Yes
How bad do the brakes dust?
-No worse than any other Euro car. Wash your wheels once a week
Has anyone installed XM rather than Sirius?
-Can't do a factory XM install. Only Sirius.
Quite a few S60 owners have done aftermarket XM instals w/ no probs.
Any other oddities I need to know about?
-This is not a family sedan. Its a sports car. Its loud,its stiff and the tires don't last.
On the other hand, its alot of fun to drive, its fast and its a reasonably good commuter.
Good luck - let us know how it goes.
Because of the extreme offset, very few wheel companies make wheels to fit the R.
As for cleaning, any cleaner will do. Even soap and water, provided that you don't let it go for more than a week between cleanings.
I really think Volvo has the best European deliver plan by far. I can't wait to do it!
I've noticed a few comments about the '06 S60R. The only change I have read about ( I'm only considering the stick shift) is a color change (silver I believe, but I find that strange since Volvo already has silver!). Does anyone know iof any other changes?
And is the '07 S60 due for a total re-design, or is that for '08?
Volvo has a new "premium" silver color to go along w/ regualr silver.
Don't know what the new silver looks like.
At this point it looks like 08 for the re-done S60.
I am getting ready to buy a brand new 2005 Volvo S60 2.4 with about 7400 miles on the odometer.
Car is a base 2.4 with metallic paint, auto, and leather (no premium package). Dealer is offering about $8000 off the sticker, and it has never been titled (all the maintenance and warranty is still in effect). MSRP is around $30700, and they are offering the car at $22700 before trade-in and taxes. I thought this was a pretty good deal since they are also offering $500 more on my trade-in as well. The final price should be around $21200 plus tax and title. This was a loaner that has been retired from the fleet. Car is in impeccable shape-but should I still ask them for a Carfax report? Please let me know if this is a decent deal...any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Asking them to provide a Carfax report is the same as accusing them of lying - dealer has to disclose all relevant info - accidents, etc anyway. And if they do not say anything negative - that is (or supposed to be ) their best knowledge.
22,700 seems like a great deal, consider the "real life" sales prices reported here. And @7500 miles car is better than new, already "broken in", given that it did not have any mishaps.
Buying a dealer loaner, not necessary.
Answer: No-one has responded so I will do it myself. Instead of extending the lease I have bought the car for cash but it turns out that the "Volvo" extended warranty that I didnt qualify for (30 day window see above) is in fact a dealer sold commercial plan, not Volvo. There are many other commercial warranties available as well - so far Warranty Direct looks like a safe risk - but warranties are so expensive (for this age/mileage S60 - $2600ish) that I am going to go without one - that kind of money will cover two or three major problems if they occur I should hope.
S
Yes, the dealers sell them but they are administered by a company w/ Volvo Cars direct approval.
Now, $2600 won't cover 1 major repair on that car. A tranny for example can run @ $5000.
If I were you, I'd get a warranty.
And I have paid $2265 and $2200 respectively. I bought one just before the end of the initial warranty, and other right from the start. Same level of pricing.
Also, I was shocked to learn the SR60R is only two inches wider and two inches wider than the A4. It drives like a much larger car. This must be due to the turning radius?
Thanks for your input.
"Also,I was shocked to learn the SR60R is only two inches wider and two inches wider than the A4."
I meant to say two inches longer and two inches wider.
Sorry.
Just got my first Volvo. This beauty will be driving in the long and cold Detroit winters. I am thinking about getting chains, but a friend of mine mentioned that there are so called "Tire Cables" that are easier on the tires, easier to install and still do the job.
Anybody heard of them?
Thank you.
I installed these babies on my S60 and now in mid-winter I can actually get up the hill from my house to the main road......