2013 and Earlier - Toyota Sienna Prices Paid and Buying Experience

kimo9

I was told by a dealership that the LE is built with either package AM or BW and that it isn't even built as an optionless model. Is this true? Is it a regional thing?

If that is the case, I'm seriously thinking of getting the CE with package AI. It adds a number of safety features that I like. Any thoughts on this? I wonder if I'm missing something.

Thanks.

stickguy

I believe it is true that an optionless LE only exists in the brochure, and the fertile mind of a Toyota product planner.

Same with many of the other combos. If the factory isn't building them, they are theoretical. Ot minimum, you have to wait for them to decide to run off a batch of a specific option package for your zone.

Toyota really does leave something to be desired with the way the do these packages. It's more like buying a domestic pick-up, with the vast selection of options.

Must drive the dealers nuts too, having people come in looking for a van that Toyota says they make, but that doesn't really exist.

kimo9

I was told by a dealership that the LE is built with either package AM or BW and that it isn't even built as an optionless model. Is this true? Is it a regional thing?

If that is the case, I'm seriously thinking of getting the CE with package AI. It adds a number of safety features that I like. Any thoughts on this? I wonder if I'm missing something.

Thanks.

kimo9

Thanks, Stickguy, for the confirmation.... after my post I called a separate dealership and they said the same thing. "That's Toyota," he said.

Any way, are people figuring in dealer holdback in negotiations (2% of base MSRP)? In my case, the CE MSRP is 22955, so the hold back would be $459. The CE comes with the AG package ($376 inv.) So, the actual cost to the dealer is (Inv. $20658 - $459 + 376 = 20575). MSRP of 22955 + 470 (AG MSRP) = 23425. Difference? $2850 pure profit if someone walked in a paid retail. What is a reasonable deal with these numbers? $1000 over true invoice? 3% of true invoice? 4%? 5%.......

And aside from the features listed between the LE and the CE.....are they the same vehicle? I've read in some places that a "stripped" model does not have the same quality as higher end models.

lok888

First of all, the MSRP for CE is $23,495 and LE is $24,800, both 7-pass with FWD and without any add-on packages. Second, CE has no privacy glass, roof rack, driver's seat with lumbar support, front seatback with fold-flat function, heated mirrors and few more missing items when it compares to LE. The price will be close to base LE if you decide to add the optional package on CE.

The dealer's mark up is still high. But people are getting some deals here for $1000+ off MSRP. The dealer are still not selling much Sienna like they do on Camry or Corolla.

About the LE with LE package #1 (AM) and #7 (BW), it is true for New England region even you found 10, 15 packaged from Toyota website.

mackabee

What matters most to the consumer right now is how much off MSRP they are getting.
             : )
             Mackabee

jrhchgo

I was 110% sold on 04 Sienna since Chicago autoshow. The Toyota dealers have won out with their attitude (and Toyota allowing them this position) I am now a Honda owner (Pilot won out over Odyssey) Good luck and sorry, but screw this Toyota process.

corpus

My local dealer (Champion) just got the car I want on their lot--an LE8 in the color I want with the AM package. So I should be able to buy it somewhere between invoice ($22,600) and MSRP ($25,200), right?

Here's the problem: The distributor, Gulf States Toyota, put $4,000 worth of "upgrades" on it (like custom wheels, cloth and paint protection, running boards, mudguards, wood grain dash, etc.) before the dealer got it. They have it listed at $28,800.

My plan: Offer them invoice, plus $1,000, plus what I think the other stuff is worth, and tell them to take it or leave it.

Any advice on this type of situation?

steveb84

The Chicago Region orders XLE's 5 different ways, however, a good inventory manager can change on to meet your request - CZ package. It's not actually a "Special Order" but just a change to an allocated unit.

The LE can be ordered "plain" with no packages. Again, each region has certain build combos, but a knowledgeable Sales Consultant can work with his/her inventory manager to get the right Sienna for you.

kimo9

I was incorrect about the CE MSRP.....

The dealership said the CE must come with package AG ($470) so I assume this is added to the base MSRP. Total = $23495 + 470 = 23965 MSRP. Invoice, including dealer holdback, is actually $21115. Profit=$2850.

Base LE price is 24800, however, you can't buy it without package 1 or 7....... it doesn't base only.... so the cheapest you can go is 24800+810 for
package 1 = $25610 MSRP. By the way, the included AG package in the CE gives roof rack, cruise, tint, power mirrors.

$2850 profit is still too much, 13.0% over actual invoice
at $1850 profit ------------- 8,7% " " "
at $ 850 profit ------------- 4.0% " " "

racewalker

I am looking for an inexpenxive way to transport my Sienna from Georgia to N. Va. Any suggestions or ideas?
Thanks in advance.

racewalker

I remember seeing a discussion a while ago about giving a list of preferred settings to the dealership at time of ordering, so that the car could be set as you desire. Otherwise, you may have to pay a dealership later on to change these settings.
My memory is fuzzy about this issue. Can anyone direct me to this discussion?

stever

I'm fuzzy on that one too, but I do vaguely remember the thread. Somewhere :-)

You could try an Advanced Search using the link on the left, and search within the message text. I didn't come up with anything myself.

Steve, Host

zebra5

Gulf States is doing the same thing to all the Siennas I've seen on lots in the DFW area. Your approach is sound, but so far I haven't found a dealer willing to discount the distributor options as significantly as you are proposing. I'm somewhat resigned to ordering a Sienna with exactly what I want, expressly to avoid the cluster bomb of distributor-installed options they pile on. For me so far, that's been a more effective money-saving strategy than any of my price negotiations.

Good luck.

PS - I haven't gotten a better offer than $2300 below MSRP on a loaded (bloated) XLE, which included about $3500 in distributor options.

PPS - I'm waffling on going after the 8 passenger LE (vs. 7 passenger LE) after hearing some stories of buyer regrets: that 2nd row bench isn't as comfortable as buckets, and overall it makes the rear seating feel less spacious. Yet 8 passenger capacity still appeals to me, if only in theory.

kmead

The second row bench is not a bench, but in fact 3 separate comfy seats.

Try one before making a decision based on others conclusions. Even mine : )

mackabee

My suggestion to you would be not to buy one. Or wait until supply catches up with demand. 13% too much profit? According to whom?
                         : )
                         Mackabee

mrzhangwei

Just made a deposit for it. The msrp is 31,718 the final price is 29,351+89(fee) and promised to delivery on 11/30/03. i am happy with the deal.

sob29

I just got my XLE yesterday from another dealer for $1000 off MSRP. I know that Naperville Toyota has 1 XLE on the lot available today. Its got a GH package and they won't move on the sticker, but the dealership is very helpful and pleasant to deal with. I also got an email today from Schaumburg Toyota saying they had a few LE's and XLE available. I have heard that at Schaumburg they just try to get you out of the market. Schaumbury at one point offered me $1250 below MSRP. Best of luck...looks like the supply line issues are clearing up.

lok888

Not sure if this is a right place to ask. I didn't mention to my dealer about trade in when I ordered my Sienna two weeks ago. I won't see the van until December. Many suggested the trade in when they have the allocation. I have doing some research about my trade in value from Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book. Should I ask for the highest number as the private sale value (not trade in value)? I have no experience when negoiate the trade in. Any suggest or link will be appreciated.

stever

You generally get the best price if you sell your old car privately. But that's a hassle and sometimes the predicted date of arrival of an ordered car slips a week or three.

I guess you could talk to the dealer today about your trade, but the price the dealer may offer could change in a month or six weeks. The dealer may be reluctant to stick to a price since something mechanical could break between now and delivery of the new van.

Try asking in Any Questions for a Car Dealer? They need a break from the tax evasion thread that's going on in there :-)

Steve, Host

kinct

In my experience, your going to get at least $800-$1,000 more if you sell it yourself (of course it depends on the car!).

But yes, there is some additional hassle (adverts, dealing w/ "tire kickers", etc).

For me, it's well worth it.

The dealer is using your trade in as another way to make a profit off of the transaction. Wouldn't you rather have that money?

indyjones

I think if the Van is non-AWD model, then you should be able to get $1500-2000 off MSRP, even if the van is available right away.

good luck.

wolfpackvan

Any insights would be helpful.

Have a price in the Southeast Region for:

2004 XLE
fwd
option group 12
DVD player
carpet mats
Dealer price to me of $31,642

Any thoughts?

vaeagles1

Check out www.fitzmall.com in Gaithersburg, MD. They are selling their LE's at about $2k under MSRP. I did not look at the listings for the CE or XLEs.

dparler

I appreciate all the help and advice I got from multiple Edmunds users through the last several months ... so here's my update. After ordering a Blue Mirage XLE on 5/20, negotiating for approx. $1000 off MSRP, I took delivery yesterday after a wait of 5 months and 10 days. I don't know if I or anyone could get the same deal today given supply and demand. The most frustrating element was the poor communication and lack of reliable information on the status of the order. With Toyota, they use an allocation system that is not a true "order" that is filled per se. Some of the delay was undoubtedly related to the gas tank recall, but ultimately we found out that after 5 months our "true" vehicle had not yet been made and the dealer essentially "swapped" an allocated XLE with one identical to what we wanted that was in the closest "port." (Seems like they could've done that 2 mos ago.)

As far as advice for those with excessive waits (4 mos or more), I would recommend :

1. Calling 1-800 GOTOYOTA to complain. We got an additional "rebate" beyond the negotiated deal with the dealer, but only if we waited around and consummated the "order" with the original dealer.

2. Write or call the owner of the dealership. It was probably only beacause the dealer became 60% as frustrated as we were that they pursued a "swap" in their allotment.

As far as getting a good deal, it SEEMS as though supply is just now starting to catch up with demand. The XLE appears to be have the greatest supply deficiency. I don't think people are gonna get really good deals of more than $1000 off MSRP until you can walk on a lot and there are eight sitting there to choose from , which may not happen for a while. But if you are "ordering" make sure you get everything in writing, have a purchase request signed by the manager with the total agreed upon price; and I'd suggest you have them note at the bottom a "projected" or estimated delivery date.

To keep the costs down, I believe it helps to limit the options. We actually got the XLE instead of the Le because by the time you add on a power sliding door and a center console and something else, you're in the same ballpark. Some people have posted getting $2000 off MSRP, but it seems those are usually high-end with many expensive options added on.

Finally, I think trade-ins cost you 15% or so (at least). Do the math here at Edmunds by figuring out your own (old) car's "trade-in value" vs. the "private party sale" and you'll see the difference. We printed out the Edmunds sticker on our old car with the options, mileage, etc listed and gave it to prospective buyers and showed them the difference between "third party pricing" and what they would pay at a dealer and I think it helped with the sale.

And, in everything, as Steve says, focus on the out-the-door price. The dealer will try to add on everything from a processing fee to a handling charge, delivery charge, advertising charge, etc. Let them figure out how they're gonna divide all that up ... and make sure the out-the-door price (I negotiated as "everything except tax/tag/title") is the figure on the line AFTER their processing fee, and not BEFORE it.

WE actually got a free set of carpeted floor mats because we had negotiated (in writing) the out-the door price and specified "no options" but, in fact, it looks like they don't make vans without the floor mats (it's been an option in every one I've seen) and so, we weren't paying any more than we agreed to.

And oh, we love the van although the long wait has dulled our enthusiasm. "The mini-van with the maxi-wait." I'll post more over in the Reviews or 2004 column after we have more than 30 miles on it.

Thanks, everybody. Happy shopping. (Sorry for the long post.)

indyjones

Thanks for posting your experience. Much appreciated.

mackabee

Your dealer probably didn't do an allocation swap at the beginning because what you wanted wasn't available yet. I've noticed that certain packages are being sent to dealers more than other packages (option). So it's just a matter of being at the right time.
                     : )
                     Mackabee

beanbuyer

We want a 2004 LE, either the #4 or #7 package, with cloth seats. Any recent experience buying in the SF Bay Area (or Northern California -- we're willing to travel to Central Valley etc.)? Can you just walk on the lot to buy one of these now, or do you have to order them and wait? Are people buying now under MSRP in this area? Any dealers to recommend?

Are these options worth the cost: Vehicle Stability Control + Traction Control (what is that, anyway?), rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer grid and Daytime Running Lights. We will pay more for safety, but not sure these are needed.

Thanks!

corpus

I was able to get my dealer to divert a vehicle to me without the pinstripes/fabric protection/etc. that they wanted $3,000 for. They have also promised me $750 over invoice. Sounds good. We'll see what "invoice" is when it gets here. No papers signed yet.

oursea

Just bought a 2004 LE from RK Toyota in Hampton. We just happened upon one that the owner did not feel like the wait was worth it and cancelled the order. The next day it arrived on the lot, so we grabbed it. They are a very pushy dealer, but they had the best deal going. The biggest complaint was the Service department. The desk people were very nice, but the prep folks are a bit out of it to say the least. We drove it home on a Saturday knowing that we had to bring it back for a detailed prep job (about and hour wait)a few days later. We found a scratch on the door (5 inches long) and a few minor scratches that they said would be fixed when we brought it back. I arrived at 10am and at 12 I asked for my car (was told it was second in line behind a cars waiting to go out on the lot). After a bit of discussion it was moved up the list. By 1:30pm it was ready. I waled out behind one of the prep guys and he broke out a bottle of rubbing compound and a greasy rag and commenced to apply compound to the door. Yes, the horizontal scratch dissapeared and many circular ones are now present. He was very pleased with his accomplishment, but needless to say I was rather upset. Then I noticed what appeared to be soap on the back bumper. Upon investigation it was a 1/4 inch hole with a 3 inch gouge mark. The prep department denied it, but I had walked around the van with the general manager and he to confirmed that it was not there when I had brought it in that morning. Now it is going into the body shop to have the entire rear bumper replaced and the entire car buffed and polished (provided a rental car as well). Overall I am please with the dealership sales department and the price was the best I found around here. I found out later that someone in prep had backed into something and did not say anything about it to anyone. I will be having my service done at a local Toyota dealership near my house instead of RK Toyota.

rodc1

I recently (10/14/03) placed an order for a FWD Limited. Salesman told me I would receive it roughly in 8 weeks. For those who have recently placed orders what have you been told? Is 8 weeks realistic or should I really expect longer. I've read posts of up to five months of waiting and I don't want to be that person. By the way I have no prior experience with this person so I don't know his track record. Also how soon can I expect to find out about build date or general delivery timeframe. Salesman just says something about allocation.

JOSEAGULL

In case any one is interested, I spoke to Planet Toyota in Matteson, IL on Fri and they have 5 on the lot. Here is the website - http://www.toyotaofchicagohts.com. I just checked the website and they have 11 available. The last time I spoke to them, they were willing to give me the 3% off MSRP sam's club discount.

bww2

rodc1:

See post 2447. My experience closely matches that one. Any dealer will tell you 8 weeks, thats the standard answer for an order. The fact is, in my opinion, Toyota does care nor want yours or any one else's special order because they won't make it anyway in their just in time rigid manufacturing schedule. If you want frustration and total misinformation or no from Toyota information just wait and take your antacid. You would be better off just keeping an eye on the dealerships in your area and then grabbing the one you want, if you aren't that picky about color. Keep an eye on the internet lists for the dealers since they post the vehicles (at least in my area) several weeks before they show up on the lot. Maybe a dealership could mod a vehicle to get it close to what you want.

Again Toyota doesn't care about servicing your special order - sorry to say.

ando0307

My family received our LE8 #7 from Fremont Toyota with no pain. My total time with their fleet manager was one hour, includes pre-order in Sep, verifying contract details, down payment, and final payment. The car took 6wks from the date I ordered it to when we drove it off the lot. Paid under MSRP. Ordered LE8 with pkg#7 for the additional safety.
Compared to other Bay Area dealiers, I had no progress or good service from Capitol Toyota (SJ). Avoid them entirely. No availability or openness to accept my order from Palo Alto Toyota and Piercey Toyota (SJ). It's unfortunate for these dealers for their unwillingness to stretch for my family, since I was in the market to buy two Toyotas.
Hayward Toyota was responsive, however, Fremont was quicker to fulfill my order.
I'm currently waiting for my second order with Fremont Toyota. ETA is mid-Nov.

mackabee

So you got a great deal on your van an now you're bashing the dealer on this threads?
           : )
           Mackabee

stever

It sounds like Ando is bashing the four unresponsive dealers, not the one he went with...

Steve, Host

elle0011

Sounds like mackabee and steve are bashing ando and not adding value for beanbuyer and the rest of us.
I made a few calls to the dealers in ando's msg regarding placing my own order for a sienna xle. I have to agree with ando's personal experience.
Sounds like ando was trying to help beanbuyer save time to find a dealer who provides prompt, professional service.

stever

No bash intended I'm sure!

I thought it was helpful to name the unresponsive dealers...

Steve, Host

corpus

My local dealer has 3 on the lot, and is willing to take $750 over invoice. I'm waiting for the package I want (LE8, #6). Shop around. Be willing to wait. Please don't believe the "we have buyers waiting in line" hype. How can that be, when I see posts of vehicles on the lots without buyers. Please don't drive up the price for the rest of us by falling for the hype.

corpus

Remember, if they sell it to you at invoice, they still make a bunch of money. I consider the $750 over invoice a gift.

stickguy

Corpus: Out of curiosity, where are you at? I believe in sunny NJ, they are still rare as hens teeth (so, none just sitting on the lots).

corpus

I'm in Corpus Christi, Texas. I went out to the Champion Toyota lot Thursday night and saw the three they have on the lot. They're all gussied up by the distributor, Gulf States Toyota, with up to $3,500 of non-Toyota-factory options. The mgr. says he'll divert one without the Gulf States "upgrades" and offers $750 over invoice. I ordered a Consumer Reports invoice to compare with Edmunds (which I think has been accurate in the past). I'm ready to buy when they get my car in.

stickguy

I'm going way out on a limb here, but I bet that Texas gulf coast and New Jersey are way different markets for Toyota vans.

denlexus

XLE AWD with package #17. Ordered on Labor Day. 1K off MSRP + tax. Seems like LEs are pretty easy to find, and XLE is starting to show up as well. Good luck to all.

rodc1

Thanks to the response to #2453. Seems like some people are getting their vans in 6-8 weeks while others in a much longer time frame. I guess the only way to deal with it is know that it may take a while and be happy if it comes in earlier.

dako_tian

Maybe Toyota cares about special orders and maybe they don't. I can't say. I'm guessing that they are struggling to keep up with demand and to place the available inventory in the highest demand spots while trying not to irritate their dealers in the slower sales areas (including those distributors who themselves irritate customers with their helpful mandatory "option" packages).

But I can say, if Toyota's just-in-time manufacturing process is anything like Honda's, then it is the best system for handling special orders. I mean, we aren't talking about stuff they don't sell, so inventory isn't the problem. It's a matter of which inventory of parts goes on which vehicle as they are being built.

In Marysville, OH, the Honda plant (as far back as 1990) would establish the parts list for a particular vehicle at the time the body/frame assembly went into the dip tank. The system had to print out in time for all those parts to arrive on the line as that particular unit went by. A co-worker of mine worked on the database code for the process.

So, I'm thinking they could only have gotten better and that Toyota is not lagging behind on the assembly technology. So, in theory at least, they have the best possible system for inserting a particular special-order request since it is done so late in the process and would essentially be no different than their best-guess mix of options on any one vehicle.

Now, whether they actually do that or not?....

oem1

We ordered a Sienna LE 8-seater w/option #11 (dvd system) way back in July. I spoke to the dealer yesterday and they said we "might" get our car this month. Something about our order getting "kicked out" by the Toyota ordering system. Although I was aware the wait would be long, I figured someone would know with some sort of certainty when I could get my car.

What kills me is we're paying full sticker. And the initial offer we got on our trade is pathetic. I feel like I'm being hosed.

My option is to cancel my order and go to another dealer that might actually cut a deal. But fear doing that because I'd have to wait another four months or so. Any suggestions?

stever

Find another with your options and color in stock and then cancel the ordered one?

Steve, Host

oem1

Thanks. I would have done that the day after I ordered ours. Problem is: no one has any Siennas in stock. They still are extremely hot commodities in southeast PA. I'm still looking and have expanded my search into northeast Pa and Southern NJ.

lok888

steve (host) - Although the production has resumed and supplies are up, the market isn't change much at least in our region. Most dealers carry almost zero inventory. There is an usual wait of 4 to 6 weeks for the most popular LE-7 and 10 to 12 weeks for CE-8 or LE-8. Not to mention the MSRP. We may find few in stock in several dealers but usually not the one that we prefer. I keep my fingers cross and hope to see my van (LE-7, FWD with LE pk. #7) in early December, ordered on 10/18. I still think Toyota should focus on building the same van with only few different packages/options at least during the first year model.