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Comments
Letters to the Editors
Steve, Host
This begs the question, why have commissioned salespeople at all? From the buyer's perspective, the dealer is selling the car, not the salesperson. The fact that the dealer doesn't pay commission from holdback is an employer-employee issue. It's irrelevant to the buyer. Maybe it's time for a new business model for automotive sales.
Other times I only want someone to let me take a test drive or make an offer on my trade-in. But if you've driven a friend's van (or rented recently) and intend to sell the old car yourself, then do the email route and tell the dealer you want the van delivered to your door, for X amount of dollars.
A courier can handle the paperwork.
Steve, Host
They have an LE/8 with package 11 for $28818. I'm from the philly/south jersey area where no one is coming down from MSRP.
Good deal? should I look some more?
thanks,
Base 21833
Pkg#7 2364
CF 119
Subtotal Invoice = 24316
Amount over Invoice 600
Destination Fee 490(I assumed.
My be slightly different)
??? 278 (??)
Total Price 25784
Platinum extended warranty (7yr/100k, 0 deductible) - paid $950 (www.toyota.com suggested retail price $1425)
Premium 4yr/55K (5K intervals)pre-paid maintenance plan - paid $770 (www.toyota.com suggested price $995)
....like pulling teeth. The dealer where I purchased the Sienna in Nov. wouldn't discount the extended warranty more than $30, either at the time of vehicle purchase, or several weeks later. Excellent deal on vehicle, lousy deal on warranty.
When I emailed other dealers in the Sacramento area and asked for price quotes, I got no response. I suggested paying $800-850 for the warranty in my emails.
I then tried a Palo Alto dealership in the SF Bay area near where I work (face-to-face with the finance manager). He quoted me $1070 - now we're getting someplace - and insisted his cost was $970. He even showed me a price sheet with that figure, dated 2001. Gads! How accurate can THAT price list be? He agreed to hold the quote for 24 hours.
The finance person at another dealership in the same area quoted $1695 and insisted that was the dealership's cost. Ugh. I spent less than thirty seconds in her office.
Deal done at a third dealership. The finance manager quoted his cost as $770 plus "paperwork" - whatever that means - for the warranty and insisted that he include the pre-paid maintenance (at a discount, of course) to close the deal.
Accepted. He wasn't willing to sell the warranty alone for $950 and I was willing to buy the pre-paid maintenance. (Toyota's pre-paid maintenance plans are described on the company's Web site.) I hadn't thought about combining the two items into a single transaction, though.
Not the absolute lowest price I've seen paid recently for this particular warranty, but very close.
Do you think someone will bit??
I'll order from you today with a confirmation cost of $33,950.
2004 XLE LIMITED FWD SIENNA with HF package #5
Hood protector
Wheel Locks
Mudguards
Running boards
Doorsill protectors
All-weather floor mats
Cargo mat
RS3200 VIP system upgrade
Basically a 36K Out the door with taxes.
I had it on a BMW and it was nice to have Wipers Changed evertime I went to the dealer. All Oil Changes and SChedule maintenance as well, given the expense of these services on a BMW.
The BMW maintenance also covered my 1st brake job, likely $1400 is I had to pay out of pocket.
On the taller SUV's like the 4 Runner or Sequioa, the running boards come in handy but on the Sienna? It's useless and just added cost to your car. Save your money.
If possible, get one w/ the Z1 preferred package also. This includes the carpeted floor mats, door sill protectors and cargo net. Most of the Sienna's in the Mid-Atlantic area comes with this package. Their all weather floor mats are also next to useless. Their rubber lip is low and will do next to nothing when you're climbing in with snow and dirt. Goto Costco and grab either grey or tan all-weather rubber mats. You know which one it is..its the deep one! I would recommend 2 sets. each seat comes with 4 pieces, 2 fronts and 2 rears. The 2nd pair of fronts, you can lay head to head in the 2nd row seating. Cut the extra lip up top and they both fit perfectly. the other 2 pairs of rears you can use to put in the 3rd row and in between the rows if needed. They are far more usefull than the dealer offered weather mats.
Dizzy
that make headphones almost impossible for her
to use. As far as I can tell, the 2nd-row DVD
entertainment system in the 2004 Sienna can only
be heard on the headphones --- the dealer wasn't
sure whether the sound could be heard on the main
speakers. Can someone who has the system tell me?
Thanks!
The DVD system can play through the stereo. Our 15-month-old son is too small for headphones, and heaven help us if his Blues Clues isn't playing when we go somewhere.
Start the DVD in the player, then use your stereo "Mode" control to choose "Aux" mode and you'll hear the sound through the stereo system. The steering wheel control works fine for this. In my use, I've found that the DVD sound is much lower than the Radio/CD sound, so you may have to turn it up to hear it at your desired volume. Remember to lower the volume before switching back to radio/cd or you may scare yourself. Hope this helps
"What is included in Toyota's Pre-Paid Maintenance? How many miles/yrs is it good for?"
See my post #2909.
Toyota offers several pre-paid maintenance plans. These are described on the Financial Services page at www.toyota.com. Suggested retail pricing is also included. Since you purchase plans thru a dealer, prices are negotiable (of course).
My questions are: Has anyone actually taken delivery of a car from Auto Fair? Did they live up to their deal? How long did it take for your car to come in? Has anyone gotten deals from other dealerships in Upstate NY, Southern VT, or Western MA?
The Auto Fair rep told me over the phone that all the models displayed on their website are spoken for, but they can put in a preference request and usually have good luck getting the car in about 2 months.
bigrej
Here is the options I am looking for:
Sienna LE with package #3
Leather seats
VIP security system
Auto dimming mirror (Electrochromatic)
Mats
The dealer is quoting $26895 (excluding tax and tag). Is it good or bad.
Thanks
LE Sienna 2004 7passenger
BW + FE + DK + Z1 MSRP 27969 Invoice 24911
The pricing I got:
24900 + 100 (proc) + 2 (tire recyc) - of course tags and title and tax
Before taxes and stuff $25002. Oh, did I mention I called Toyota Customer Service line and told them I was trying to decide between the Sienna and the Odyssey. I told them that I was a loyal Toyota buyer (true) and never had a Honda (true); but with the pricing I was getting from Honda (500 below invoice), I was willing to give them a try. I am getting a $500 check from Toyota - ON A 2004 SIENNA!!!!
That brings my cost before state stuff to be 24500. Oh, how the end of the year is a great time to buy.
Again, thanks to everyone that posted to help me negotiate a great deal.
Feel free to email for additional info; Also, I had a Honda dealer offer $500 below invoice on the Odyssey. If you can deal on Wed before the end of the year, I think I have some directions for you.
Have a great New Year everyone.
"Here is the options I am looking for:
Sienna LE with package #3
Leather seats
VIP security system
Auto dimming mirror (Electrochromatic)
Mats
The dealer is quoting $26895 (excluding tax and tag). Is it good or bad."
My response:
To start with, compute Edmunds' invoice price.
For an LE7 with option pkg #3 and the VIP RS3200 security system the invoice price is $23,609 (that includes a $540 destination charge - substitute the destination charge for your area). (I assume that the mats are not the CF package, but the security system is the VIP RS3200 option.)
For an LE8 (with same options) Edmunds' invoice is $23,745.
Next, you need to determine the true cost of all of the aftermarket add-ons items. As a start you can contact local upholstery shops for an estimate of the leather upgrade and local auto parts dealers for the remaining ones.
Alternatively, you can ask your salesman to show you the dealer's invoice. (He should agree to that.) However, bear in mind that the prices of the add-on items might already be padded on the invoice, so independent confirmation of the costs would be helpful.
Also, the invoice may include other items, like a regional advertising fee (TDA).
Then see my post #2632 on how to structure an offer.
Bottom line: a firm offer of dealer invoice (which may include miscellaneous charges, like TDA) + $500 wouldn't be out of line, provided the prices of the add-on items are not padded more than a few percent of their actual cost.
Using some back-of-the envelope estimates of what I think those add-on costs might be, I suspect an offer of "dealer invoice + $500" could be $1000-1200 (or more) BELOW the dealer's quote, depending on whether the vehicle is an LE7 or an LE8, and assuming that a charge like TDA is also included on the invoice.
P.S. See also shmunson's post #2920. Generally, a buyer is able to pay invoice (or less) only when there are manufacturer-to-customer rebates or manufacturer-to-dealer cash incentives. If there are any, you should insist on getting every cent of them. Ask your salesman about them - and try to confirm any amounts independently.
However, I am not aware of any incentives at this time and none are listed on the Edmunds' Web site (that doesn't mean there aren't any, though). So....what am I missing?
Is this a good deal?
Still, I don't think many will be able to repeat your success. I have contacted around 25 dealerships and so far have heard from only a few that are anywhere close to the better deals I have seen on this board. Also, since I am looking for a very specific color/option combination, I am only looking at "pipeline" vehicles. That rules out year end discounts.
Congratulaltions.
CPSTEch
Email me if you want to know which salesman I would not recommend. I was at the point where I was so excited about getting a reasonable deal that I decided not to make an issue out of the salesman.
cpstech
What's FE?
The price before taxes and fees is just under $26000, which is a little less than $1000 over invoice. MSRP is $28095.
1) Is this a good deal?
2) Can I try for a better one? Here's the situation: Our local dealer has a price matching policy. He already stated he would beat the price as long as we have the breakdown of fees, etc, which we've requested from the "remote" dealer. Question: Is it right to go back to the remote dealer and say that we have someone else who can match his offer, and can he do any better on his original offer. Are we supposed to pit them against each other? Do we run the risk of losing both deals?
(Please excuse the dumb questions, but I am really uncomfortable with the purchasing/haggling game.)
Thanks for any advice.
We say holdback on the Sienna is 2% of the Base MSRP (Amount may differ in Southern U.S.) link
New2buying, it doesn't cost anything to ask and if you lose a deal, they'll be another one the next day. It's not like Toyota is going to cut production any time soon :-). Dealers won't hold price shopping against you - they'll respect you more and treat you better in the process. Generally speaking. If I were in car sales, I'd much prefer dealing with an educated consumer.
Steve, Host
"I have an email quote from a dealer a few hours away, for an LE-8passenger w/BW (#7) package and Z1 accessory package (floor mats, etc.)
The price before taxes and fees is just under $26000, which is a little less than $1000 over invoice. MSRP is $28095.
1) Is this a good deal?
2) Can I try for a better one? Here's the situation: Our local dealer has a price matching policy. He already stated he would beat the price as long as we have the breakdown of fees, etc, which we've requested from the "remote" dealer. Question: Is it right to go back to the remote dealer and say that we have someone else who can match his offer, and can he do any better on his original offer. Are we supposed to pit them against each other? Do we run the risk of losing both deals?
(Please excuse the dumb questions, but I am really uncomfortable with the purchasing/haggling game.)"
My response:
There is no reason to be uncomfortable. You (the buyer) are really in control, and you don't need to haggle or engage in rounds of offers and counteroffers.
I suspect a $26K purchase price is high by several hundreds of dollars (at least), but, no, it's not a terrible deal and, yes, you can certainly try for - and be able to get - a better one (without embarassing yourself).
Frankly, it's not my style to pit one dealer against another in back-and-forth "Can you beat the other's offer?" You shouldn't need to go to that trouble, and salesmen are used to dealing with those kind of negotiations.
Read some of my posts on structuring an offer (in particular, #2632, 2886, and 2922). You should be able to get the same deal, within a $100 or so, from either dealership (on identical vehicles.)
Your salesman should ALWAYS treat you courteously. If he does not, take your business elsewhere. (Being courteous means, in part, not trying to work you over price and engage in rounds of offers and counteroffers, particularly after you ask your salesman not to. I consider that inconsiderate - to put it politely.)
I'd handle your situation the following way: I'd work up an offer (using guidelines in my posts here) and present it to the dealer closest to you. Make it clear to your salesman that "My offer leaves no money on the table and I believe it to be fair and reasonable. I also do not intend to engage in rounds and rounds of offers and counteroffers. That's a waste of everyone's time." If you want, you can also say (without providing details) that you already have a standing offer at another dealership, and if you cannot come to terms very quickly, you will leave and accept the other dealer's offer. If your salesman questions you about them say something like "That's irrelevent. I'm offering you a sale now."
Straightforward, precise, and clean.
Anyway, you don't need to tell the remote dealer why you need an itemized price quote. You could tell him that you want to make sure there is no misunderstanding as to price or options and you'll feel better if you see it all set out in writing. Or you could tell him that your credit union needs it.
Is this a good deal?
"Does it strike anyone as ironic that Sienna buyers must pay high Toyota advertising fees, while (at least in my area) one hardly ever sees advertising for the Sienna?"
Yup, it has to me. Isn't it nice to know that you and I are expected to pay one of a dealer's costs of doing business? Working close to Edmund's invoice, I've not been able to negotiate this charge away in any of my three auto purchases since the mid-90's. If someone else has, I'd like to know how he or she has done it.
Since I also seldom see ads for Siennas, the advertising fee in my recent Sienna purchase must have gone towards the blizzard of local Toyota truck commercials and newspaper ads.
In my first auto purchase 20+ years ago my offer included a nominal $50 for advertising. Now this charge is formalized as a regional advertising fee on the dealer's invoice and costs hundreds of dollars more. Ugh.
"That is the best Sienna deal I have heard of... the dealer's markup is essentially the holdback (around $500 on the Sienna LE). Considering the Sienna's demand, that's outstanding...
"Still, I don't think many will be able to repeat your success. I have contacted around 25 dealerships and so far have heard from only a few that are anywhere close to the better deals I have seen on this board..."
I agree; shmunson's deal in #2920 is superb - the best that I've seen posted here - but almost certainly not generally available, unless there is some (unannounced) rebate or incentive program in place.
Dealers in Northern CA are selling Siennas at MSRP and are quick to tell you so. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to buy at that price, or even close to it.
And no one lurking on this board would, would he?
PS - I learned I can't get leather installed by the dealer on an LE8 with package BW - it interferes with the side air curtains, supposedly. Anybody else aware of that?
Thanks to Sacchoe for helping me work to a better deal than I thought I could get. Unless of course it turns out the dealer is just jerking me around.
The dealer was 355 Toyota in MD. I faxed them on Monday to the sales manager (as well as over 30 others) and finalized the deal on Tue. I was up front with my method: I was pitting dealer against dealer. I truely believe that it being the end of the year was important. I bought the "Fighting Chance" information and Mr. Bragg gave the best time to deal on any car (last few days of the year). The fax stated what I knew about the invoice pricing, MSRP, and dealer hold back (Bragg states it 3% for Toyota vans and light trucks). To be fair to Mr. Bragg and his business, I will not disclose the entire process. At the very least, his info gave me a great deal of confidence and that is what I believed sleighed the dragon.
Next year at this time I am with high hopes of doing the same for a 2005 Prius. Hey! Stop laughing!
And you paid for info that you can get here free? Y'all need to check out our Buying Tips page. If you feel like you have to pay money for this info, buy the book :-)
I used the fax version of Online Car Buying the last time I bought a new van. That was in Dec. '98 - dealers are finally used to dealing with email and quote services.
Steve, Host
I disagree that I could have gotten the same info here. Edmunds was a valuable part of my information source but I got some additional info from Mr. XXXXX that proved to be indispensable for me and my particular situation. He allowed me to talk to him directly and discuss my individual game plan. For me this was a great service but maybe not for everyone.
P.S. He did suggest going to Edmunds for additional up to the minute info. He also suggested not lying to the dealer, being fair (dealers need to make a profit), and don't intentionally waste any ones time. I am sure Edmunds would also suggest these methods and they all paid off in the end.
Have a great NEW YEAR!
People are free to buy his stuff or pay Consumer Reports $12 or whatever they are charging now for a buying report.
Makes little sense to me when so much info is free on the web :-)
Steve, Host
So far, my wife and I absolutely love the vehicle and so do the kids. Thanks to all who posted all the helpful information.
I did not want alloy, but was told "they're all shipping with alloy wheels". To me its 700 bucks for something that adds little to the car. Has anyone been able to get a Sienna without alloy wheels?
Hopefully all goes well. Thanks for all the great info on this site!
Thanks!
I'm now thinking about the extended warranty. Any thoughts? What about contacting other dealers (not mine) for the warranty?
Sounds like you got a fantastic deal. I offer 36K OTD and they just laugh at me.
What did you do to get that deal?
"I'm now thinking about the extended warranty. Any thoughts? What about contacting other dealers (not mine) for the warranty?"
See my post #2909. I purchased my warranty and Sienna at different dealers.
I paid $950 for a manufacturer's Platinum 7yr/100K, 0 deductible extended warranty (Toyota's suggested retail price $1425) and had to buy pre-paid maintenance (at a discount, of course) in a package deal to get that price.
Several weeks ago someone mentioned on this board that he was able to buy this particular warranty for $850, but didn't stipulate whether it was the $0 or $50 deductible version. Another stated that he paid $1068 for the $0 deductible one; his dealer insisted that price was dealer cost. (One of the dealers I contacted claimed that $970 was his cost and another $770. Take your choice.) If I recall correctly, they purchased their warranties at the dealers where they bought their vehicles.
There haven't been many warranty deals posted here of late, but these are the best I've seen (in the last six weeks, or so) for the Platinum 7yr/100K warranty.