"You might want to note that the new 2011 Sienna has already been tested and got 4 stars as well--not 5"
My concern with the 2011 Sienna, is that the frontal crash test ratings for the passenger is only two stars. The driver rating is five stars. The 2011 Camry frontal rating is 4 stars for driver and 2 stars for the passenger. My overall concern is that Toyota ratings are not that good for the passenger in a frontal crash. The 2011 Honda accord is both 5 stars for the driver and passenger and the Pilot is 5 stars for the driver and 4 stars for the passenger. So my conclusion, based on limited testing, is that Honda is doing a better job in crash protection then Toyota. One might assume that the Honda Odyssey will most likely be better then the Sienna.
I had my eye on a new 2011 Sienna but now I am wondering if that is a good idea. I like the Odyssey (not crazy about the new lightning bolt look), but otherwise nice), but my wife and I feel road vibrations in our bottom and back on our test drives. (Found this to be true in 2010 Odyssey.) Wife also complains that her back starts to hurt after a short test drive. So not sure what I will do. Can't seem to find the perfect vehicle, at least not yet....
Well, unless it flies or runs on air, I see it 'rocking' the minivan market maybe as much as, but probably less than the Sienna or Odyssey. The styling is improved over the current version, but the current version is about the ugliest thing on the road, so that's not saying much. Moon roofs for the rear passengers on the top trim levels will become a seldom used gimmick. On the Mercedes R-class, people in the back got tired of getting baked in a greenhouse. The non-ergonomic placement of the nav controls will be a problem. Everything else on the car is standard equipment for a modern minivan with similar trim levels save the AWD option on the Sienna.
And what will you do if the Quest gets a '3' safety rating? Hold on to your wallet! Oh, and by the way - the Odyssey and Sienna did not become less safe, if anything the new editions are safer then the previous models. The NHTSA simply changed the test and the ratings. Like in gymnastics where years ago everyone was getting 10's, they had no where to go. I think it's a good move by the NHTSA.
I just purchased a new Odyssey 2011 EXL and love it mainly for sporty drive and interior. I did not have time to wait for January and to consider the Quest. However, I am not sure how the new Quest will fare only seating 7 and having a third row seat that folds down but not into a well to make a complety flat load area. I would miss this extra space and would not want to load on top of folded seats.
Can i get Ex-L or Touring in 7 passenger config? Or they come in 8 passenger model only. If that is the case, can i permanently remove middle seat in second row?
Just so you know, you can take the middle seat of the second row out, but your passengers will not have armrests on the inside. That middle seat serves that purpose when the back is folded down.
Sorry, We just got our EX and have not had that seat out. We had no use for it either, but I think we'll adjust. It seems like the opening to get in the third row when you slide the second row seats forward is much larger than in SUVs, so there is easy access without the walkthru the Ody used to have. Hope you get the one you want at a good price. I really liked the EX-L, but that is about $3k we can spend elsewhere.
And why will the Quest "rock" the market? Because it charges the same/more money for less basic features (ie, fold flat seats in the back, 8 passenger seating).
Since none of us have actually seen it or driven it, I find it rather curious had we can really evaluate it. And I find it even more curious how someone could presume to know that it will get a 5-star crash test rating.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Hopefully the Honda will. And hopefully the Quest is a nice van. Given Nissan's track record with minivans, they don't exactly get the benefit of the doubt from me sight unseen.
I understand the concern with the Sienna's crash test ratings. However, I would agree with the thought that in actuality, the new van is still likely safter than the previous generation--its just that testing has advanced and the results are more specific so you can see where some of the weaker spots are.
Does anyone know if the 2011 can store more than 4 TPMS sensors ? If you switch over to 4 winter tires on their own rims, then you will also need 4 TPMS senors on the winter rims. I found this out the hard way. My 2009 Accord was the first time I bought a car with TPMS on the wheels, They didn't tell me I had to reprogram the TPMS senors for the winter rims.... at a cost of $40-$50 each time I switch over... Just another expense you might think about if you want dedicated winter tire rims.
I'm thinking about buying Odyssey 2011, but this post quoted below makes me think twice about Honda quality in addition with their famous tramission problem all over the forum. (the post is from "2010 Honda Odyssey")
#32 of 34 New 2010 2 months old, engine needs major work by larryhelp Nov 03, 2010 (7:59 pm) Save | Reply I have a Odyssey 2010 EX-L got it new 2 month ago it currently has 2000 miles. A number of days ago my wife was driving it and she heard a pop noise under the rear seats. The van cut off completely. Luckily she was able to get it out of traffic safely. We had it towed to the Honda dealership 5 day ago. I went in and they had the engine almost completely disassembled. An they still don’t know what the problem is other than 3 of the cylinders are completely locked up. That seem strange because when we tried to restart the van it would turn over but not start. Have anyone heard of anything happening like this.
Your reasoning is flawed. The previous test by NHTSA was not rigorous. If a vehicle got 5 stars in that old test it meant very little in the real world.
Nissan has invested more than 900 man hours on crash tests. The Quest will get get 5 stars. It would qualify for 6 stars if available.
An article in our local paper said there are tons of paid posters out there. Buyer beware anytime any post is too much all one way. Read Consumer Reports and lots of car mags, etc, etc.
Since the 2011 Quest has been mentioned a bunch of times, here are more details announced today at the LA auto show. Some good things, some bad things. I don't think its going to dominate the market, however.
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I stopped by aHonda dealership and checked out the 2011 van. Took a walk around it and as I just about got into my car, a salesman sauntered over and asked if he could help. Told him I was checking out the van. He said yeah we have several of them. I told him it's F ugly. He said well nothing he could do about it.
What did Honda do? This thing looks like a station wagon used for funeral home. OMG. Honda really f u over this one. Make me kind of chuckle when I read all those posts on the other board about price and paying experience. Like they said, if you make it, they will come. Either Honda owners are blind or or those posters are hired hands in trying to drum up enthusiasm for this eyesore on wheel!
Its funny. People have been saying that about new designs of cars for a long, long time. I remember when the revolutionary '85 or '86 Taurus came out, my mom thought it was the ugliest thing on the road (I was a little boy!) and just went on and on about it everytime she saw one. Now it looks conservative.
Design is subjective. Warren Brown, the auto columnist of the Washington Post, wrote a review of the Odyssey last one and commented that he had several people approach him while driving it that really liked it--"hip mommies" he called them (or something to that affect.). Personally, I like it--I think it looks fresh. I also don't care all that much, because I spend most of my time on the inside...so if I had a choice between a beautiful car with an ugly interior or vice versa, I'd take the nice interior. And I love the interior of the Odyssey.
I really do like the exterior of the new Sienna as well--except the SE (I don't care for the street racer effects on the taillamps and the mesh grill.) However, I'm not very fond of the dash layout--it looks messy to me and not very intuitive. So on that alone, even if I really hated the Odyssey exterior, I'd probably still go with it.
I will say, I don't like the Quest in those new LA pictures at all. The interior looks nice enough--the upper dash gets the Infiniti treatment-- so if it had 8 passenger seating I wouldn't rule it out (it doesn't, so I am), but to me, the new Quest is a lot uglier than the new Odyssey. It looks tall, narrow and short of smushed in the back. But that's my subjective opinion.
Since the 2011 Quest has been mentioned a bunch of times, here are more details announced today at the LA auto show. Some good things, some bad things. I don't think its going to dominate the market, however.
I just checked out the autoblog.com pictures and iMHO, the new Quest is not that good looking. The front is great but that back end is too boxy for my tastes.
I know that in Japan, the big sellers are the "box" designs and the Quest seems to take those styling cues.
I just checked out the autoblog.com pictures and iMHO, the new Quest is not that good looking. The front is great but that back end is too boxy for my tastes.
I agree that the front of the 2011Quest looks awesome. The back looks boxy and odd. The side looks fine too - no silly thunder and lightning bolts here.
I am waiting for the safety crash test results. I want to compare the Quest scores with Odyssey. IMHO, the Quest will trounce the Odyssey in safety tests.
That seems a shockingly low number of hours. 900 hours = half a man year = say $50K
Please compare this data with the hours dedicated by Toyota to safety crash tests. You will get a rude awakening.
The Toyota product development cycle does NOT allow for even 500 hours - with Toyota its all about getting the product to market as fast as possible. After the flood of recalls, I believe Toyota is going to lengthen the new vehicle development cycle.
I do not have the data for Honda so I cannot comment.
Question for you - do you know why Honda is delaying the safety test results for the 2011 Odyssey?
I'm sure the Honda drives better and looks better inside than a Sienna (I hate the featureless slap of plastic they call the dashboard in the Sienna) but the exterior?
I have heard this argument before, "since I spend more time inside the car ...", but remember, the exterior hits your eyes as you walk up to and get into a car. Then when people look at you driving that thing down the road. It's like 'yeah this clothe is comfortable to wear and I don't care what it makes me look on the outside'. Or marrying someone who you don't want to put your eyes on but it's because he/she's beatiful on the inside. It's just a lame excuse. Maybe you would like to drive a used funeral station wagon if they sell it for cheap and throw in a "mattress" for you to put in the vehicle.
So I'm not so hot about the Sienna, even less on the Odyssey, not even thinking about Nissan or Chrysler. Where does that leave me with a mini van? Kia. Umm, they don't make things easy, do they?
Sounds like you just talked yourself into a Kia Sedona. (Which ain't exactly beautiful, either.)
Well, like I said, I don't think its ugly--I think it looks sleak and fresh. But from my standpoint--its a minivan. If I cared that much about what the exterior of my vehicle looked like, I wouldn't have bought a minivan to begin with. None of them are all that great to look at just because of what they are.
I'm not sure your analogy holds, anyway---not to be too graphic, but I've never tried to have sex with my car...
I don't understand why automakers don't get this. See how many people on this minivan forum. They should put more focus on"us", build a minivan we want. There is a market for it. We are spending way much for a van this day, I feel like I should go with a CPO Benz R class then a minivan. GM and Ford dared to leave the minivan market. If car markers spend a little time listen to us, whoever comes up with a Odyssey+Sienna will have a good future. Right now we are kind of either Honda or Toyota for minivan. I am not surprised someday Koeran company will fill the gap, just look at some recent model from them (not the current sodena though .
The minivan market isn't a growth area - hence that's why Ford and GM left it. Since 2000, minivans have dropped from about 7% of the market to about 4%. Sales are up this year about 3.5% but the overall market is up 17%.
As one writer said - the minivan market is like the full size pickup market: ultracompetitve but only big enough for 3-4 players.
Just picked up our new Odyssey the first wk of November and drove it to South Texas where we spend the winter. Put on 1760 miles and the dashboard mileage meter registered 27.5mpg, average speed 56.5mph (this included short trips between motels, restaurants, etc when we stopped for the day). It is a 3 day trip. I didn't necessarily trust the dashboard reading so I calculated it by hand at the end of the trip and those calculations came out to 27.3mpg, so the dashboard gauges are surprisingly accurate. All in all, we're pretty satisfied with the vehicle so far.
So we had a 2010 EXL(RES/NAV) for 2 months before my wife got rear ended and the car totalled (she had only minor injuries thank goodness - and hence why we bought an Ody again). We bought the 2011 Touring which we've had for a month. Here's the pros/cons vs. the 2010 in our opinion:
Pros: 1) Handling/Ride - the 2010 was good, but the 2011 is even better 2) Brakes - just feel better/firmer 3) Backup Camera - way better - clearer, lines really help, different views good 4) Screen - way clearer 5) Controls - all around much better. I know some liked the touch screen in 2010. Phone controls way better - able to easily select #s 6) HDD/USB ipod very nice 7) 2nd row searts tilt back, so you can actually titlt back with a car seat installed so an adult can get in the 3rd row 8) Nav is better 9) Quieter, though I never found the 2010 that noisy as others have said
Cons: 1) steering wheel controls should have allowed you to select numbers and features on screen to dial 2) you have to fill the HDD one CD at a time rather than just dump from USB 3) front row console does not fold down; only one cup holder in front pull out drawer 4) It's too wide imo 5) 2nd row captains chairs can not be put next to each other 6) Front seats seem slightly too small (or my butt got bigger) 7) Steering a little too light (not as bad as Sienna's)
Indifferent: 1) Styling - doesn't bother us one way or another (obviously a personal preference) 2) lower height - easier to get in, but grounding out more often 3) Fit/Finish - I know some people saying it's worse; seems comparable to me - it's not a mercedes, but it's certainly not rental car cheap
I had never noticed the wind noise with my 1995 Honda Odyssey until I started driving my new 2011 Ody. It certainly is noticeable but I hadn't noticed because I have been driving my first Ody for the past 15 years and I'm still driving it. You gotta like it!
did any one experience any problems with new ody? I have Touring elite for a month and several times low battery charge light came on and shuts most of vehicle electronics. did not get a chance to get it checked out. My friend has a Touring for 3 weeks and one of 3rd row seat pull strap came off. Looks like bad quality production/vehicles.
There are many posts with old model Ody regarding Electrical issue that many people experienced, yours sounds similar. See the link below. I'm looking to buy EX 2011, waiting for the price to come down to around 29k, and also waiting for feedback from those already bought the Van to see any issue I need to pay attention to, thanks. Please let us know what you find after checking with your dealer.
The only problem I have had so far which was pretty freaky is that my sprayers for my windows plugged up somehow while I was driving and trying to clear my windows. Don't know how these ones were built but I never had plugging up issues on my 1995 Ody. So I just went to the car wash and cleaned them out and that worked. I'm glad it wasn't something in the tubing way deep down in the vehicle because then I wouldn't have been able to drive it safely.
I am in Dallas area and I am shopping for 2011 Odyssey EX-L. My dealer told he can beat $500 off the price if I can produce a document from dealer. Do you mind sharing the copy.
Oh man .. thought i was the only one who saw the funeral home station wagon similarity. I was waiting for the 2011 and after looking at it, got cold feet because of the funeral home station wagon look.
Exactly, Buyers should be aware and not to take advises from any car salesmen, do not believe in "this Ody is rare and low supply crap....." do your old research, get many quotes in different states/location and bargain online. Do not go to dealers and sit down with salesmen, help your friends and others to do the same thing. We should help consumers to protect their wallet from getting rip-off. If you have to go to dealers to talk to sale people then at least be knowledgable about the vehicle and the price you are willing to pay and be firm.
Very well put. When I shopped EARLIER this year for both Ody and CRV, and now in December a CrossTour. I casted a net to about 15 dealerships for the CRV, narrowed it down to about 10 when I received their e-mail quotes. Then kept on narrowing it down from there based on the attitudes and reputation of the salesman and his/her dealer they worked for. Weeding out all the sneaky tactics, I narrowed it down to 2 dealers.
On the morning of almost driving 70 miles, 1 of 2 dealer said no to my offer, after they said YES. Turns out the salesman said the deal could be had, but Failed to tell me that he hadn't ran it by his manager, and when he did---his manager said no. At least he was honest at the end, at the last minute and told me before I wasted my time driving there.
Dealer #2 was still calling and took the offer. Not saying that all dealers are the same, but you HAVE to do your homework, and get things in writing. Lastly, BE PATIENT...!! One can get hyped up and lose focus and drop your guard, and that's when they know they can getcha..!!! Take your Time, there are cars being built everyday.
Finally, PLEASE watch out for the salesman in these forums acting like concerned buyers like us, these guys/gals are everywhere....!!!!
Had my mechanic change over my tires to winter ones that I purchased from Tire Rack with rims and TPMS sensors included, all mounted and balanced and ready to go. This morning the TPMS light came on the display and continues to be there. Do these sensors have to be programmed at the dealer's? or will they eventually recalibrate themselves after driving for a while. Or did my Odyssey detect the sensors of the other tires sitting in the garage and got confused? After paying for having my wheels mounted I have no plans on paying to have them "computerized" if you will if that is the case. Then this would have to happen every year and what a scam that is.
Comments
"Sooo...while I understand waiting, if it gets, say, 4 stars...what are going you to buy?"
I will buy the redesigned 2011 Nissan Quest making its world debut in January.
This minivan will rock the market.
My concern with the 2011 Sienna, is that the frontal crash test ratings for the passenger is only two stars. The driver rating is five stars. The 2011 Camry frontal rating is 4 stars for driver and 2 stars for the passenger. My overall concern is that Toyota ratings are not that good for the passenger in a frontal crash. The 2011 Honda accord is both 5 stars for the driver and passenger and the Pilot is 5 stars for the driver and 4 stars for the passenger. So my conclusion, based on limited testing, is that Honda is doing a better job in crash protection then Toyota. One might assume that the Honda Odyssey will most likely be better then the Sienna.
I had my eye on a new 2011 Sienna but now I am wondering if that is a good idea. I like the Odyssey (not crazy about the new lightning bolt look), but otherwise nice), but my wife and I feel road vibrations in our bottom and back on our test drives. (Found this to be true in 2010 Odyssey.) Wife also complains that her back starts to hurt after a short test drive. So not sure what I will do. Can't seem to find the perfect vehicle, at least not yet....
And what will you do if the Quest gets a '3' safety rating? Hold on to your wallet! Oh, and by the way - the Odyssey and Sienna did not become less safe, if anything the new editions are safer then the previous models. The NHTSA simply changed the test and the ratings. Like in gymnastics where years ago everyone was getting 10's, they had no where to go. I think it's a good move by the NHTSA.
I think honda should have offered 7 seat config with arm rests as an option for all trims. Not everyone need 8 seat configuration.
Since none of us have actually seen it or driven it, I find it rather curious had we can really evaluate it. And I find it even more curious how someone could presume to know that it will get a 5-star crash test rating.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Hopefully the Honda will. And hopefully the Quest is a nice van. Given Nissan's track record with minivans, they don't exactly get the benefit of the doubt from me sight unseen.
I understand the concern with the Sienna's crash test ratings. However, I would agree with the thought that in actuality, the new van is still likely safter than the previous generation--its just that testing has advanced and the results are more specific so you can see where some of the weaker spots are.
If you switch over to 4 winter tires on their own rims, then you will also need 4 TPMS senors on the winter rims. I found this out the hard way. My 2009 Accord was the first time I bought a car with TPMS on the wheels, They didn't tell me I had to reprogram the TPMS senors for the winter rims.... at a cost of $40-$50 each time I switch over... Just another expense you might think about if you want dedicated winter tire rims.
#32 of 34 New 2010 2 months old, engine needs major work by larryhelp Nov 03, 2010 (7:59 pm) Save | Reply
I have a Odyssey 2010 EX-L got it new 2 month ago it currently has 2000 miles. A number of days ago my wife was driving it and she heard a pop noise under the rear seats. The van cut off completely. Luckily she was able to get it out of traffic safely. We had it towed to the Honda dealership 5 day ago. I went in and they had the engine almost completely disassembled. An they still don’t know what the problem is other than 3 of the cylinders are completely locked up. That seem strange because when we tried to restart the van it would turn over but not start. Have anyone heard of anything happening like this.
The previous test by NHTSA was not rigorous. If a vehicle got 5 stars in that old test it meant very little in the real world.
Nissan has invested more than 900 man hours on crash tests. The Quest will get get 5 stars. It would qualify for 6 stars if available.
So in what capacity do you work at Nissan? Just wondering.
Is that it?
What about you? Are the President of Honda?
japan version Elgrand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu4o7NySFI&feature=related
btw, I purchased 2011 Sienna LTD FWD (blizzard) with PT and CX packages + carpet floor mats (MSRP 44934) for 40k + tax, lincense, doc fee.
is this a good deal?
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
What did Honda do? This thing looks like a station wagon used for funeral home. OMG. Honda really f u over this one. Make me kind of chuckle when I read all those posts on the other board about price and paying experience. Like they said, if you make it, they will come. Either Honda owners are blind or or those posters are hired hands in trying to drum up enthusiasm for this eyesore on wheel!
Just my thought.
It's because minivans are starting to fall out of favor and crossovers are the new hot market trend.
Design is subjective. Warren Brown, the auto columnist of the Washington Post, wrote a review of the Odyssey last one and commented that he had several people approach him while driving it that really liked it--"hip mommies" he called them (or something to that affect.). Personally, I like it--I think it looks fresh. I also don't care all that much, because I spend most of my time on the inside...so if I had a choice between a beautiful car with an ugly interior or vice versa, I'd take the nice interior. And I love the interior of the Odyssey.
I really do like the exterior of the new Sienna as well--except the SE (I don't care for the street racer effects on the taillamps and the mesh grill.) However, I'm not very fond of the dash layout--it looks messy to me and not very intuitive. So on that alone, even if I really hated the Odyssey exterior, I'd probably still go with it.
I will say, I don't like the Quest in those new LA pictures at all. The interior looks nice enough--the upper dash gets the Infiniti treatment-- so if it had 8 passenger seating I wouldn't rule it out (it doesn't, so I am), but to me, the new Quest is a lot uglier than the new Odyssey. It looks tall, narrow and short of smushed in the back. But that's my subjective opinion.
I just checked out the autoblog.com pictures and iMHO, the new Quest is not that good looking. The front is great but that back end is too boxy for my tastes.
I know that in Japan, the big sellers are the "box" designs and the Quest seems to take those styling cues.
I agree that the front of the 2011Quest looks awesome. The back looks boxy and odd.
The side looks fine too - no silly thunder and lightning bolts here.
I am waiting for the safety crash test results. I want to compare the Quest scores with Odyssey. IMHO, the Quest will trounce the Odyssey in safety tests.
Please compare this data with the hours dedicated by Toyota to safety crash tests. You will get a rude awakening.
The Toyota product development cycle does NOT allow for even 500 hours - with Toyota its all about getting the product to market as fast as possible. After the flood of recalls, I believe Toyota is going to lengthen the new vehicle development cycle.
I do not have the data for Honda so I cannot comment.
Question for you - do you know why Honda is delaying the safety test results for the 2011 Odyssey?
I have heard this argument before, "since I spend more time inside the car ...", but remember, the exterior hits your eyes as you walk up to and get into a car. Then when people look at you driving that thing down the road. It's like 'yeah this clothe is comfortable to wear and I don't care what it makes me look on the outside'. Or marrying someone who you don't want to put your eyes on but it's because he/she's beatiful on the inside. It's just a lame excuse. Maybe you would like to drive a used funeral station wagon if they sell it for cheap and throw in a "mattress" for you to put in the vehicle.
So I'm not so hot about the Sienna, even less on the Odyssey, not even thinking about Nissan or Chrysler. Where does that leave me with a mini van? Kia. Umm, they don't make things easy, do they?
Well, like I said, I don't think its ugly--I think it looks sleak and fresh. But from my standpoint--its a minivan. If I cared that much about what the exterior of my vehicle looked like, I wouldn't have bought a minivan to begin with. None of them are all that great to look at just because of what they are.
I'm not sure your analogy holds, anyway---not to be too graphic, but I've never tried to have sex with my car...
We are spending way much for a van this day, I feel like I should go with a CPO Benz R class then a minivan.
GM and Ford dared to leave the minivan market. If car markers spend a little time listen to us, whoever comes up with a Odyssey+Sienna will have a good future. Right now we are kind of either Honda or Toyota for minivan. I am not surprised someday Koeran company will fill the gap, just look at some recent model from them (not the current sodena though
As one writer said - the minivan market is like the full size pickup market: ultracompetitve but only big enough for 3-4 players.
South Texas where we spend the winter. Put on 1760 miles and the dashboard mileage meter registered 27.5mpg, average speed 56.5mph (this
included short trips between motels, restaurants, etc when we stopped for the
day). It is a 3 day trip. I didn't necessarily trust the dashboard reading so I
calculated it by hand at the end of the trip and those calculations came out to
27.3mpg, so the dashboard gauges are surprisingly accurate.
All in all, we're pretty satisfied with the vehicle so far.
Pros:
1) Handling/Ride - the 2010 was good, but the 2011 is even better
2) Brakes - just feel better/firmer
3) Backup Camera - way better - clearer, lines really help, different views good
4) Screen - way clearer
5) Controls - all around much better. I know some liked the touch screen in 2010. Phone controls way better - able to easily select #s
6) HDD/USB ipod very nice
7) 2nd row searts tilt back, so you can actually titlt back with a car seat installed so an adult can get in the 3rd row
8) Nav is better
9) Quieter, though I never found the 2010 that noisy as others have said
Cons:
1) steering wheel controls should have allowed you to select numbers and features on screen to dial
2) you have to fill the HDD one CD at a time rather than just dump from USB
3) front row console does not fold down; only one cup holder in front pull out drawer
4) It's too wide imo
5) 2nd row captains chairs can not be put next to each other
6) Front seats seem slightly too small (or my butt got bigger)
7) Steering a little too light (not as bad as Sienna's)
Indifferent:
1) Styling - doesn't bother us one way or another (obviously a personal preference)
2) lower height - easier to get in, but grounding out more often
3) Fit/Finish - I know some people saying it's worse; seems comparable to me - it's not a mercedes, but it's certainly not rental car cheap
All around happy so far.
I'm looking to buy EX 2011, waiting for the price to come down to around 29k, and also waiting for feedback from those already bought the Van to see any issue I need to pay attention to, thanks. Please let us know what you find after checking with your dealer.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12c755
Very well put. When I shopped EARLIER this year for both Ody and CRV, and now in December a CrossTour. I casted a net to about 15 dealerships for the CRV, narrowed it down to about 10 when I received their e-mail quotes. Then kept on narrowing it down from there based on the attitudes and reputation of the salesman and his/her dealer they worked for. Weeding out all the sneaky tactics, I narrowed it down to 2 dealers.
On the morning of almost driving 70 miles, 1 of 2 dealer said no to my offer, after they said YES. Turns out the salesman said the deal could be had, but Failed to tell me that he hadn't ran it by his manager, and when he did---his manager said no. At least he was honest at the end, at the last minute and told me before I wasted my time driving there.
Dealer #2 was still calling and took the offer. Not saying that all dealers are the same, but you HAVE to do your homework, and get things in writing. Lastly, BE PATIENT...!! One can get hyped up and lose focus and drop your guard, and that's when they know they can getcha..!!! Take your Time, there are cars being built everyday.
Finally, PLEASE watch out for the salesman in these forums acting like concerned buyers like us, these guys/gals are everywhere....!!!!
You should be able to have it done at a local tire shop at a more reasonable price.