BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

kdshapiro

Any doctor will tell you if you exersize you will have a better quality of life. But nobody can determine the exact benefit to you.

I'm spending $40,000, $50,000 or twice or three times or more for a car, I would like to have a more accurate estimate than: "CR no longer recommends the 3-series". That information does not help me determine the reliability of my next BMW. Since it will not help me, why even use it in the first place? I don't think it's a proper analogy (although I understand why you might have used it), comparing a JD Power survey to the last 30 years of medical information regarding smoking. Obviously the use of statistics are all around us. Most uses have a degree of interference on our lives that we might take pause over. I'm not arguing the usefullness of the JD Powers/CR surveys, I'm saying to me they are not useful. As a matter of fact, I know a number of people who do not use these surveys in the buying process. People only seem compelled to respond when there is an issue.

pat

Okey-doke, folks, it's time to realize that we all view things differently and make our own choices based on our own set of priorities. And we are all entitled to do just that without having to justify ourselves to anyone else.

Let's agree to disagree about this, and get back to the subject of this discussion.

Thanks.

scarol4531

Hello,
I just bought a 330i and I also purchased a 2-yr extended warranty for $1700 which would cover me for 6 years total. I will likely only be putting 8,000 miles on the car per year and I do plan on keeping this car for at least 6 years and maybe more. I have owned American made cars up until now and extended warranties has served me well. What do most BMW owners do? I still have time to back out of it. Please help. Could really use some advice. Are there lots of repairs on this car after the 4 yr factory warranty expires?
Carol

someday

Does anyone know when the 2004s will start showing up? I know the the 2004 coupes are already out.

Also any visual changes? Will the front headlights change similar to the 04 coupes? And will the ugly black molding along the body finally change to match the body color?

Any links or pictures will be appreciated.

thanks.

brave1heart

- Diesels are everywhere. Chug-chug-chug around the farm with Little Red Bear. Even the new ones like the 330d sound horrible.
- Most cars are hatchbacks. An Audi A4 Avant would be considered fairly spacious by French standards. SUVs are almost non-existent, although I did see a Cayenne.
- The French government does not want you driving by yourself. On a 100-mile trip from La Rochelle to Bordeaux, we had to pay 10 euros (~$11.5) in tolls EACH way . That's on top of the 1 euro/ltr (~ $4/gallon) of gas.
- Most 3-series are diesels. The 320d seems to be especially popular. I saw a couple of 330s and they had German license plates. No 325s. I guess they are not economical enough and not fast enough. I'll keep mine, though.
- A car similarly equipped as my '01 325 stickers at ~ $38-39K. I paid ~ $31.5K for mine here in the U.S. We have no idea how good we have it here in the U.S.
- The 3-series compact is hideous. From any angle...
- The new 5-series compact is hideous. From any angle...
- I was surprised to see that the average French driver does not use directional signals on the highway more than the average U.S. driver.
- Rotaries are everywhere (just like in GB) and they work great. No waiting for the green light - traffic flows beautifully. We should have more of these in the U.S., although the one that I've seen in the Boston area (on Rt.2 in Concord) is a nightmare to most drivers who just freeze up at the sight of it.

brave1heart

http://lifeinthehub.com/high_intensity_discharge/000213.php

blueguydotcom

That's all perception that has no basis in experience. The writer expresses what he thinks might be the case with the performance package but because he hasn't experience the car firsthand this is as useless as someone discussing the quality of a film based on the actors, writers, director and trailer. Until you experience something, why bother bagging on it?

The following come from reviewers who have driven a ZHP:

http://edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/3series/100261369/roadtestarticle- .html?articleId=100429&tid=edmunds.e.roadtests.content...BMW*
"It's firm in a way that enthusiasts will savor, but poseurs will grow tired of quickly."

"Adding the Performance Package to a standard 330i bumps the price by a substantial $3,900, but for those who have held out hope for a 3 Series sedan with Motorsport character, it will be money well spent. The additions are subtle, but the car's abilities are not. It's not cheap, but when it's 6 a.m. and you're flinging it through a corner like it's never going to let go, $40 grand doesn't seem like much."

http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6- 978&page_number=1

"Our Performance-package 330i sprinted to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and covered the quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds at 97 mph.

The quickest 330i test times we've recorded prior to exercising this enhanced edition came in our first instrumented encounter with the 3.0-liter 3-series back in December 2000: 0 to 60 in 6.1 seconds, the quarter in 14.8 at 95 mph. "

Huh, some hypothesizing, or people who have actually driven the car.

jmess

I think the writer was pretty accurate about one thing. Most sport sedan drivers would rather have go items like an LSD over show items like interior and exterior trim?

blueguydotcom

LSD would be nice but I can live without it, just as I can do without the useless lip spoiler, showy rims, BMW emblem, alcantara (or however that garbage is spelled) interior, anthracite headliner, noisy exhaust or M badges.

Now the suspension, gear changes and engine mods...well that's a must. And I actually don't like the look of the recently (2002 I believe) changed 3 series frontend. The pinpoint fog lamps and smoothed fascia aren't as agressive to me as the 99-00s. so that one cosmetic change, I do like.

andergtr

the reason i'm wondering is because my 2002 325ci is the first BMW i've owned, and i'd like to get some idea of what kind of repair bills i can expect down the line.

i paid for the first service outside scheduled maintenance (at around 45K miles), and i had to replace front pads, front rotors, rear pads, rear tires, and do the regular oil change. the total bill was $1400, which seems excessive. now, of course, that means that i don't have to brake work for another 40K miles conceivably, but i wonder when i've got to worry about the water pump, the timing belt, and the rest of the other parts that are going to wear out.

i've had one problem with the electrical system so far--the dealer had to replace an actuator that controlled the keyless door entry on the driver's side door. i know that german cars in general are notorious for electrical issues down the line, but i guess i'm wondering what else i'm in store for.

i love the car and am keeping it, but now it's being relegated to leisure use because it's just an expensive car to maintain--too expensive to keep as a daily driver when my annual mileage is about 30K.

thanks for all that respond.

roam396

Just bought 2002 325i from private seller. Hear a few things about warranty - can anyone clarify:

- under original warranty, all scheduled maintenance labor and parts are covered? oil, wipers, brake pads, etc?

- where can I find - other than the dealer- what the original warranty covers?

- Does the original warranty transfer to me?

- Will BMW sell an extended warranty to a non-dealer pre-owned BMW?

Thanks!!

kominsky

One good thing is that there is no timing belt to replace.

FWIW, I just got my car back from the 45K mile service last Tuesday. $252 total w/ $195.71 of that being for the actual BMW Oil Service. Not too unreasonable but I wish I had checked the list of services before taking it in since I could've done much of the stuff myself.

kominsky

- maintenance is covered for 3yr 36K miles.

- There should be warranty info with the car.. check the leather owner's manual case.

- warranty should transfer

- to the best of my knowledge, BMW doesn't sell extended warranties.

kominsky

I might be wrong about the maintenance period... my 2001 is 3yr36K, but it looks like the new ones are 4yr/50K. I don't know when that changed so I don't know what it would be on a 2002.

kominsky

Based on andergtr's post which I responded to right before your's, 2002's must be 3yr/36K miles also... (now where'd I set that crack pipe?)

brentcho

My door/window trim peeled off and now is drooped across my side window on both sides. It is a 2000, 323ci. This happen in the hot summer of 2001.........then again this summer......... the dealer which replaced it under warranty the first time will not honor this defective part, because the odometer reads 57,000, over the 50,000 mark. Has anyone else had this problem?..... Please help!

roam396

Thanks for the info. I'll re-check the leather case. I'll let you know what I find out.

andergtr

that's why the 45K service was out of my pocket. now, i don't mind paying to maintain a car i love, but at a rate of 30,000 miles/year it gets pretty expensive. my solution was to buy a second car, a scion xB (the furthest thing from the 325ci) and put all the miles on that!

thanks for the info about the timing belt!

platypus

Have to admit that I had forgotten about this board. I see that you're still here patrolling the troops along with kominsky. Hope your E46s are still humming along.

With just a hint of sentimentality, my Euro Delivery 330i is being put up for sale. Still love the car, but I really missed the top-down feel that my old Z3 gave to me, and I really can't justify having two cars for myself (especially since I take public transportation to work!) As for a replacement, the Z4 just hasn't grown on me, and the 330Cic, although nice, after a test drive felt more like a cruiser than a sports car.

So, I recently picked up a car I've always wanted to have - an E36 M3 convertible. It's a completely different animal than the 330i - much less refined and more raw. Took it out on the twisties along the Nothern California coast and all I could say was, "Wow!" Plus, there's room for both kids in the back. ;-)

I know I'll be dealing with all the maintenance issues that coincide with owning a five-year old, out-of-warranty BMW, but maybe it'll compel me to become more of a DIYer.

Cheers!

ksoman

My topic is going to be, "who are all these people who write test drives for all leading mags/papers/online journals, were they born on pluto?"... everybody seems to be writing as if they were writing for a sitcom on NBC must see thursday, hello, what about the cars?

ksso, pissed after reading a review online...

memphis10

I picked up my car yesterday (2003 325i, PP, SP, Xe). Here are some of the problems I noticed. Please advise / comment.

1. 50 miles into the trip on the highway the "Service Engine Soon" light came on. When I shut down the
engine, removed the key and put it back and started the car, the
"Service Engine Soon" light didn't come on again. It did happen one more time and the same trick did it. What should I do? Do I need to take it to the dealer.

2. The steering seems to be pulling slightly to the right. It is
noticeable on the highway.

3. The steering seems to be over boosted. It might be just my feeling but can it be changed.

4. The wind noise at speeds around 80 - 85 mph is quite high. I am comparing this to my friend's MB C240.

Overall, I love the way it drives. Still need to get used to the clutch. I am still in the nervous phase trying to figure out if everything is working the way it is supposed to work. The FUN factor is the highest in the BMW and I guess I will enjoy it even more once I get over the 'break-in' period.

jim1395

congrats on the new car. i got the same thing in alpine white, love it! i think the steering boost and wind noise are probably nothing. your probably just not used to it yet. going from your old car to the new one needs some adjusting. the engine light and pulling should be checked by your dealer. easy check for the pulling is tire pressure though this may not be it. engine light will have to be reset at dealer even if nothing is wrong, though something has to be causing the light to go on. have it checked, i'm sure its not serious. good luck with it.

jhox85

I posed this question on the 5-series board and got no response, so maybe you guys have any suggestion. My 02 530i does not keep the last settings I have on the A/C control more than half of the time. Most of the time I have to reset it a few times between each driving until it keeps the settings. Is this a computer problems or other things? I would appreciate any inputs.

riez

memphis10... Read the owner's manual carefully on this light as well as the fuelling instructions. OBDII cars can be tricky when fuelling. Always fuel the car with the everything off and the key OUT of the ignition. Don't overfuel. And make sure to properly put back on the fuel filler cap. This is a common problem with tons of OBDII cars.

pat

Welcome back platypus!

nyccarguy

I saw a great tag on a 325iT this evening:

CCCXXV (NY) T

blueguydotcom

That's an awesome license plate.

asleepy

After 4 mos. of owning a 2003 325i and having been back to the dealer twice (failed coolant temp. sensor and failed speed sensor), the yellow engine oil symbol started to come on (intermittently) after I turn off the car. I check the dip stick and the oil level is normal. The service advisor on the phone says that there is a technical service bulletin on this so I am scheduled to take the car in 9/15. So this makes 3 times in 4 mos. (and I am fully anticipating replacing the window regulator at some point, given how others had theirs done....).

The repair will be done under warranty but since this is my only car and I have to get to work, I have to rent a car (my dealer would not provide a loaner -- only for scheduled service they said). I've written to BMW USA asking for a possible reimbursement but am expecting the typical corporate response of not taking responsibility.

Has anyone sued BMW USA for such reimbursement? If so, what happened? I realize the amount will be minimal and the cost of the suit will be more than the reimbursement but I'm ticked off at my near monthly visits to the dealer.

ptrekker

That guy lives VERY near me. Small world.

sckling

I know this is the question that's being asked over and over again. I appreciate someone's input. I came across a '01 330i wth sports and premium pkg. It has 56k miles and dealer asks for $22.9k. Sounds like a good deal but I'm afraid of the deep maintanence and repair costs. Should I lease a new one instead? My plan is put $6000 down with $350 monthly payment for 60 months. Would it be wiser to lease a new one if the payment is similar?

ptrekker

Lease a new one. Would cost about the same, maybe a bit more assuming same down payment. But, you would be better not putting anything down.

For that price you are getting a new car, warranty, etc.

blueguydotcom

Never put money down on a lease. Now if you want to buy the max 5 MSDs, go ahead and cut your Money Factor a bit but you want to put as close to nothing down as possible on a lease. The money spent on a lease is thrown away monthly so it's best to keep your cash at hand.

The real keys to leasing:

The lowest sale price possible. If the car has an MSRP of 36k and you're buying it for 33k, you won't have to pay for that three thousand dollars.

Highest residual possible. This coincides with the MSRP. If the car runs 36k and the residual is 50%, then you're going to have to pay 18k (plus Money Factor) over 3 years. If you negotiate a sale price of 33k, then you must pay 15k (plus MF).

Lowest money factor possible. The mf is essentially your interest rate, so get it as close to zero as possible. A MF of 0.0003 is great - a bit less than 1% APR. An MF of 0.0051 is essentially loan sharking.

Low MF, low sale price, high residual value.

If you have 6k, put it in the bank or use a portion on the MF via BMW's Multiple Security Deposits and use the rest to make payments. Give them as little upfront cash as possible.

Reminds me of a girl I know who had 20k saved. She spent most of it on a new car, even though the dealer had 0%. Huh?! She felt payments were too much trouble. Good grief...

memphis10

The tires that were on my 325i sport package had a 'W' rating. I thought that they should have a 'Z' rating. The dealer told me that only the 330i with SP has Z rated tires. Any feedback.

kyfdx

W speed rating is 168 MPH. I doubt you'll ever push the limits.

regards,
kyfdx

brave1heart

Good to hear from you. Are you still in grad school? Great choice with the E36 M3 convertible - that must be a fun car to drive.

Yeah, I am still around and enjoying my '01 325. It's been a great car so far - 52K miles and counting. It's been very reliable through the 10 or so track days and 14-15 autoX event that I've taken it to. I've put in sway bars, cold-air intake, front stress bar, and will be going with lower profile tires (same size rims) in a couple of weeks when I go on my third set. It's very slowly makng its way toward becoming a dedicated track car )

brave1heart

It's probably the gas tank filler cap. Just tighten it up and give it a few days (5-6 cold starts I think) for the light to reset itself. This is common with E46s and you shouldn't worry about it. Next time you bring the car to the dealer, ask them to read the fault code for the light - it will probably be something like 'Low fuel system pressure'...

Check your tires' pressure if you haven't done so yet. The car will tend to pull toward the crown of the road. Does it always pull to one side?

The steering weight was corrected in the summer of '01 and that shut up most vocal enthusiasts. It will feel heavier if you have the sport package with wider tires.

Yes, there is more wind noise at highway speeds compared to luxury cars, such as M-B and Lexus. It's never bothered me, I don't know...

jmess

Since any continuous sound above 66-68Db will result in long term hearing damage, I always try to wear ear plugs while driving and turn up the tunes. I would rather go deaf listening to good music than tire and wind noise.

mrl11777

I guess Edmunds has given up on updating the long-term 3er.

pat

Are you talking about the 2002 330i? It looks like they called that one done, but did not use the customary "Wrap Up" title for the May piece.

Tell me your question and I'll see if I can get an answer.

bavarian

Bags are packed and tomorrow afternoon I fly to Munich to pick up my ED 325 Ci which was built in Regensburg July 11th, less than two weeks after I signed the purchase order and two months before I needed it. German efficency. Would that BMWNA was as snappy (that's another story which can wait until my return)

Picking it up Monday 15th and then touring the Bavarian Alps and the Rhineland.

2004 325 Ci
5 Speed
Sports Package
Cold Weather
DVD Navigation
Swivelling Xenons
Moonroof
HK
Wood trim
Gray Green
Sand Leather

Pardon my drool....

First stop-Hotel Admiral, by the banks of the Isar...anyone know it??

Norris, attending his first Oktoberfest and liking his beer

brave1heart

I love the options and the color combo. Have a great time and keep us in the loop when you get back.

someday

I was almost set to get a 2004 325Ci but then I decided to test drive the C230 Kompressor sports sedan. Now I have doubts. I would prefer to get a sedan but if I got a bmw I would go for the coupe (better styling and no black molding).

I thought the C230K sedan had a lot of pep for a 4cyl engine. I especially liked the clean interior and with the xenon option you get clears on the headlights. Some negatives are the engine doesn't sound as good as the bmw and the C230 looks a little stubby in profile. But otherwise a clean car.

Any feedback would be apprciated.

blueguydotcom

You expect people in the BMW sedan forum to post positive things about a hatchback Chrysler? Good luck...

jmess

Be sure and test out the IS300 also. It comes with a lot of standard goodies, some of which aren't on either of the two cars you are looking at like a real LSD. The left over O3s are even more of a bargain now.

I drove the C230 Coupe a couple of times, nice enough car but the SC 4 banger isn't in the same league as a good I-6. Given a choice between a C230 and 325 I would take the 325. The real diff is when you break out of cruising mode and start working the gas pedal. The I-6 is so smooth reving.

blueguydotcom

drive the is300, tsx and g35. Drive them all really hard. If you drive them to their limits and you end up with the MB or IS I'll be shocked...

eos

I faced this issue 3 years ago, when it came down to deciding between a 323 5-speed and a C280 sport (only available with automatic). I thought then (and still do) that the C-class and 3er are distinctly different cars. As a result, practical considerations may end up governing your choice. That's what happened to me: I ended up buying the C280, largely because I decided I could not face driving a stick during my daily commute (Northern VA, near DC). A year ago, however, my wife and I also bought an '02 325, which is now her primary car.

Having lived with both cars for more than a year, I would judge the BMW the winner in any abstract comparison. It is an absolute blast to drive (just not in stop and go traffic), and I would give it the edge in quality over my W202 Benz. While the new C-classes are tighter and otherwise improved over the W202's (I have driven several), I think the 3er still wins.

Jmess and Blue are right. Drive the competition as much as possible, and the right choice for you will likely emerge.

platypus

No - I finished up this spring and recently started work in the financial services sector. As I recall, you were in the CRM space - still the case?

Sounds like you've really become a driving enthusiast with your 325. I attended the BMW Performance Driving School in South Carolina earlier this summer and had a blast. They gave us the 330i as our "learning vehicle," and I had never realized just how far you could push these cars. Nothing like a driving school to really improve your skills and confidence behind the wheel.

Wanted to ask - are you running a dedicated set of tires/wheels for track/autocross events, and if yes, what are they? I'm thinking of taking my M3 to one of the BMWCCA driving schools out my way at either Infineon Raceway or Laguna Seca for some track time later this year. Wondering if I should get a different set of tires or not. I've heard that R-compound tires are the best for track purposes.

My car is completely stock right now, and I don't plan on doing much to it, other than perhaps a front strut brace, which I've heard does wonders to reduce the cowl shake in a convertible. On the other hand, lots of E36ers rave about the Shark Injector...

wenxin96

I just picked up my 2003 325i today --- rear wheel drive.

On the way back, I noticed that the steering was too tight --- i mean heavy, even when I was slow. No comparison to the Camry i used.

Is this normal ? I used to drive a Potiac Grand Am and the steering was like this too.

ponytrekker

Steering is tight so the car doesn't flop all over the road when you're doing 110.

div2

As the 1983 US 5er brochure puts it, "That strange yet pleasing sensation you feel in a BMW is called the road." You see, every BMW is designed so that the controls and chassis communicate with the driver. For example, a BMW allows you to feel cornering forces build and diminish through the steering wheel-which allows a serious driver to know the limits of the car without exceeding them. With the sole exception of the Mazda 6, the steering of Asian family transportation appliances like the Camry and Accord tend to lack any feel whatsoever. OTOH, the Generally Morons approach is to do it all with smoke and mirrors. Instead of designing a decent suspension and steering box the General simply slaps on some stiff springs/dampers and dials in high steering effort- in the hopes that Joe Bag O'Donuts will think the car "handles". The only decent suspensions in the entire GM passenger car line are those fitted to the Corvette and the Little Snowplow That Could-the Cadillac CTS.