BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

riez

I get the same oddly envious comments from the people in my small midwestern town today about my BMW and my Lexus as I did when I had two BMWs or two Infiniti. Is always the same: "How can you afford such a car?" or "You must be rich to afford such a car." Assuming I'd get the same comments if I had a MB, Jag, or any other "premium" marque. I love to point out that so many of these envious peoples' loaded SUVs and pickup trucks cost a lot more than my new or used (CPO) cars. They want to disregard price and just assume some sort of snob or rich factor based on the marque alone. Irrational but interesting phenomenon.

div2

I think a lot of people don't realize that you can pick up a very nice used BMW for less than $35K. When I bought my 1988 M6 in the summer of 1992 a lot of my co-workers assumed that it was new and that I had paid over $70K for it(the actual price was $25K). These opinions are beginning to change in my part of the country, due in large part to the fact that more and more people are picking up older 3ers and 5ers. It's kind of funny actually; a couple of local shops now have me "on call" to reset SI lights and trap codes with my Peake R5/FCX. I've even ordered parts using my CCA discount to help out new owners who were having problems finding reasonably priced BMW parts. But these folks aren't the source of the Stigma; rather, it's those losers who are jealous of anyone who is successful. Believe it or not, there's an MIT professor economics who wrote an article expressing the opinion that we shouldn't drive expensive cars because it makes other drivers feel bad. Give me a break...

kyfdx

I see you traded in your CPO 3-series. It looks like you traded it without using any of the CPO warranty. I know you think CPO is the way to go, but any regrets on paying the premium (whatever that may be) for the CPO car, but not using any of the benefits? Do you think the Lexus dealer gave you a higher value on trade because of the warranty? Or is the warranty even valid once its passed through a dealer's hands?

regards,
kyfdx

ponytrekker

Funny, I bet that the only people who attach a "rich" stigma to BMW drivers are people who haven't looked into BMWs.

When I was looking to replace my Accord I was looking at a lot of stuff. I drove Acura, Nissan, New Accord, Audi & Saab before BMW. I also attached this stigma to BMWs -- expensive snooty foreign cars.

Then I drove a 325. I thought it handled far better then all the others. Maybe it's the weight distribution, maybe the RWD, but it just felt so rock solid.

Then I priced it, and when it came out less to lease than the A4 3.0, I got it.

Finally, BMW does a lot of things to make owning the car easy. Ultimate pay for one thing, is very convenient -- just log on and pay your bill the day it's due.

riez

kyfdx... Remember, I also had a CPO 540i6. Bought her first. I did use that CPO warranty (e.g., replaced LCD dash computer display, airbag warning sensor, etc.). When I traded in the 323ia, it had 52,000 miles, so I did use a tiny bit of the CPO. Biggest reason I traded her in was to lock in low long-term finance rate. Went from a 72-month 6.00% loan to a 60-month 3.39% loan.

I did try to trade in the 323ia for a 325ixa earlier this year. My BMW dealer low-balled me on the trade. I got a lot more from the Lexus dealer, but they waited almost 3 weeks after I made my first/best/final offer before they accepted it. I didn't negotiate. I made them one offer and they finally took it. The BMW dealer treated me like he owned me. He didn't.

(Aside: Today I traded in my 540i6 to the same Lexus dealer. She was going out of CPO on 2/04. She had 79,200 miles. I didn't want to trade her in during winter, when midwestern dealers aren't looking for RWD manual sedans with summer-only tires. Got an '04 IS300 sedan with manual transmission and LSD. Right off the truck. They took my first/best/final offer. Tried to get an '03 from another city's Lexus dealer. They would only give me about $5K less in trade than my local dealer.)

Fact both cars were CPO didn't matter to the dealers, either Lexus or BMW.

seivwrig

I don't get much of it but I got my first real taste about a month ago.

I was at a red in the turning lane. Light turned green, a [non-permissible content removed] in beat down pickup truck beat me off the light. Did a schumacher and cut me off. Now on the entrance ramp, he rides in the left lane knowing that it will end. It was as though he expect me to blast past him. I did not jump onto the freeway because I was scared he would cut me off a third time. As I pass him, he flipped me the bird. My family had to witness this whole episode.

I have never experienced DWB, but if anyone has seen my photo they might think that I am a Black nerd. The most looks that I have gotten were driving in the UK when I did Euro Delivery. I remember explicitly the gawks that my brother and I got while driving to Ipswich (my hometown). It did look strange to African Americans, in a six cylinder 3er, driving fast, with strange license plates, left hand drive car and no military sticker on the window.

I know why people assume that BMW's are expensive, they have not shopped for one.

When my wife is driving, people will attempt to race her. I told my wife if you keep it up, you will get smoked my a Scooby WRX STi or Mitsu EVO or a Neon SRT.

I think there is some envy by others but I also think that some BMW drivers are insecure. Just drive the car, enjoy it and worry about what others think. They are ones getting fleeced by buying overpriced SUVs built on cheap truck chassis with a million and one options and customizations. I have seen many $45-50K Envoys, Expeditions and Suburbans.

kdshapiro

seivwrig - What you describe is a drivers stigma. Drivers stigma is the statistical possibility, someone will act in a crazy manner toward you for no good reason. I had similiar incidents driving a Ford. You are assuming it's a BMW thing, it's not. Crazy people do crazy things for what appears to be crazy reasons.

sunilb

Could some owners provide feedback on what it's like to live with a 325i or 330i... after the new car euphoria wears off?

I've test-driven both and with the current incentives I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger, but I'd enjoy hearing some feedback on any issues (ie, things that bother you now that you didn't notice during your test drive) that may have come up.

Thanks.

mrl11777

Mine is an '03 with the steptronic. Had it only six months (about 6k on the odo), so my opinion might not be as meaningful as a longer-time owner, but I still like it as much as the day I brought it home. Solid as a rock, not a squeak or rattle, fine acceleration and unbelievable handling. All in all, a terrific package that I think is going to be a pleasure to own for a long time.

I picked the 325 over the 330 as I did not feel that the slight bump in acceleration was worth the big premium. I originally planned on getting a 5-series, but there was not enough headroom in it with a sunroof (I am 6'3", and the 3 has about an inch more headroom).

A really, really nice car!

ksoman

what are you doing man... 6K in 6 months... you must let the others on this board borrow and exercise your car a little...
jk

ksso

mrl11777

my commute is only 3 miles each way (and that is taking the long, curvy way along the water). Fun three miles, though.

asleepy

I have 4000 miles on mine and had it for 4 months and it is a manual without the sports or premium packages. The only options I got were the Xenons, sunroof and the HK. The car handles and accelerates beautifully. The ride is very firm -- I feel every bump and uneveness on any road. I took it in to the dealer and they said this was normal. I have also taken this car back to the dealer 3 times in 4 months. Once for a failed temperature sensor, once for a failed speed sensor and once for a yellow engine oil light. The first two, they fixed. The engine oil light, they don't know what is wrong. Checked oil level, checked for oil leaks and checked the computer codes -- the dealer said nothing was amiss. I still get the yellow oil light every once in a while after I turn off the car. Oh well. Gremlins, I guess.
Bottom line, the car is fun to drive but my experiences of having to take car back to the dealer so often so early in the ownership experience is souring me a bit. I'm sure there are others on this board who've had no problems -- I'm not making any statements about BMW quality, just relating my personal experience with the car. Maybe if you prepare for the worst, you'll be pleasantly surprised if nothing goes wrong.

erickpl

I have nearly 50,000 on my 2002 325xi and I got it in March 2002.

Nuff said. hehe

Love the car.

-Paul

kominsky

45K miles on my '01 330Ci. That dopey smile's still on my face when I'm behind the wheel. The only real issue that I over looked on my test drive is the lack of inside storage. I've got CD's sitting all over the place.

ddblue

Last week, I took my 2001 325Ci through a touchless car wash near my home. It uses high-pressure nozzles to rinse the car, and after I got the car back the airbag light came on. I called my local BMW dealership, and they said wait for 24 hours and it should dry out. Water probably got in the sensor. It's now been five days and the light is still on. I called the dealership back and spoke to someone different. He said, "Gee, I've never heard of the airbag light coming on after a car wash." Apparently, there's no consensus on this one at the dealership. I've scheduled a service appt, but I wanted to know if anyone had the same trouble and what was done to remedy it.

Thanks!

david325xi

asleepy-- if you add 8oz engine oil, the yellow oil warning light will gone.

blueguydotcom

if you add 8oz engine oil, the yellow oil warning light will gone.

God forbid someone read the owner's manual.

asleepy

i did not mention that when the dealer checked out the car, he found that the oil level was normal, so it was not a matter of me not reading the manual (in fact, i checked the oil level for a week and found it to be within the normal range before i took it to the dealer).
if i have to add oil every 4000 miles so that the engine oil light won't come on, then something is not right.

ddblue

Last week, I took my 2001 325Ci through a touchless car wash near my home. It uses high-pressure nozzles to rinse the car, and after I got the car back the airbag light came on. I called my local BMW dealership, and they said wait for 24 hours and it should dry out. Water probably got in the sensor. It's now been five days and the light is still on. I called the dealership back and spoke to someone different. He said, "Gee, I've never heard of the airbag light coming on after a car wash." Apparently, there's no consensus on this one at the dealership. I've scheduled a service appt, but I wanted to know if anyone had the same trouble and what was done to remedy it.

Thanks!

blueguydotcom

if i have to add oil every 4000 miles so that the engine oil light won't come on, then something is not right.

I've added oil twice in 7k miles (yes the oil light has popped on twice so far). Of course, I drive my car like a race car.

kdshapiro

asleepy - added some oil every 4K miles to any gas-powered auto engine is not out of the realm of expectations.

vkwheels

I've had "Eva" since June 02, with now almost 22K miles. Things change with time: since acquiring Eva, I've decided G35's looks are pretty cool after all. I decided I probably should have gotten the xenons. Sometimes I miss having a stick shift. But all in all, it was a good choice because I'm still happy with it.

ksoman

well i think the oil lighting up yellow is a gentle nudge to you that you need to fill her up. if it went red, that's an alarm bell ringing... and most dealer salespeople will lovingly tell you at delivery that the I-6 engine has frictional losses that eat about 8oz of oil every 4000 miles. Incidentally most oil chambers have capacity for about an extra quart of oil in there... not that you should put it in...

ksso

on second thoughts, dont eat my heart out cuz i used the word oil chamber... gawd knows what i was thinking....

ksoman

most of us write on this board because we are passionate, one way or another about the 3... and nuts like me, who are rarely in town, rarely allowed to drive their wife's 3 still pitch in our 2.2 cents into these forums...

ksso

erickpl

Anybody know the max width I can put on the 2002 325xi wheels?

-Paul

bmw323is

My BMW is a 2000 323i. While I only have 30,000 miles on it (it's my second car) I've had it for over 3 1/2 years. Here are my long term thoughts on the car:

The handling of the car alone (with sport package) is worth the price of admission. Acceleration now seems much weaker than when I bought it (even with the 5 speed). However, it wasn't worth an extra $5,000 for the 328 since it had only 23 more HP in year 2000. Today, I would opt for the 330 over the 325.

I've had too many problems for a $33,000 car. Been to dealership for problems (not maintenance) about 8-10 times and I have more to get done prior to the warranty expiration. BMW has to address this or they will lose cutomers to Accura, Infinity, Lexus and others.

I still love the looks of the car - small but agressive. If I were in the market today, I would seriously consider the G35 based on the extra HP and better reliability at a lower cost.

All just my opinions as a longer time owner.

ajb723

Have my 330i for about 18 mos. now. Replaced a Mercedes E320 which was ultra boring to drive. Got a 330i w/steptronic. Better handling and more fun than the M-B. Only quibbles are ridiculous absence of decent storage space. Somewhat odd labelling of radio controls. No outside temp readout- no big deal.

kchanus

Actually,you do have outside temp readout. It is one of the functions of the on-board computer.

minman

nowhere to put anything- had to trade in the "smokers package" and buy little compartments to replace ashtrays. that was best i could do from bmw, as there's no way to replace center console. one tip- the cupholder "octopus" fits perfectly wedged on rear center bump between center console and back seat. gives a nice larger cupholder option because driving with console up (to use 2nd cupholder) is too awkward. any ideas on upgrading interior space would be greatly appreciated.

blueguydotcom

330i's got more storage space than i'll ever need.

The side pockets on my car: empty.

Cupholders: empty.

Ashtray: empty (as it should be...).

Glovebox: Manual.

Console pocket: empty.

Always flipped up armrest: 4 IDs and/or credit cards and registration.

Not sure what people do with their cars that they need so much storage space...

Oh and my trunk is empty.

sunilb

Yeah, outside of a cell phone and a few papers, I'm not sure what everyone is referring to wrt storage space (though it has been noted even in the edmunds long-term review).

Also, any tips on negotiating? I recall you saying that you got yours for $400 over invoice. I would really like to swing a similar deal-- $400 over "cost" (ie, invoice less their marketing support of 1500 or 2500).

I'm struggling with the 325 vs. 330 debate. I tend to be somewhat thrifty... except for cars. And, unfortunately, I test drove the 3.0L engine and was really impressed (especially over the 2.5L)-- smooth revving and really spirited.

ksoman

As somebody once told me... as an expansive civilization, you can never get enough space to spread your legs, arms and of course your stuff. According to an article i once read, the average owned house in 1900 was 1000 sq. feet with 4 bedrooms and no internal plumbing. That average has moved up to 1900 sq. ft. with 3 bedrooms and internal plumbing in year 2000. (notice, lesser rooms, more space)

When given a chance by my wife, I convert every car I drive/own into a storage compartment where eventually I might not have space to put myself into the drivers seat. Lately, last 1 year, I'm free of this affliction and addiction... I do get serious withdrawals, but I somehow manage. On the other end of the spectrum is my wife's 3 series, which similar to blueguy is seriously devoid of any personal material that will help "humanize" and "personalize" her space... haha... but to her, that suits fine. Her other rules of course involve the total absence of food from her car, so even if there were no cup holders, it would not matter...

Oh, blue, thanks for telling us where your credit cards can be found...

ksso

david325xi

My friend just brought one in Boston area for 300 above edmunds invoice price. PP, Heated seat, auto.

Does anyone know the maximum tire width I can put on a 2001 325xi? Current 205/55/R16.

white6

I also struggled with the 330 vs 325; jet black vs silver gray; step vs 6-speed(!); moonroof or no moonroof (and headroom); leatherette vs natural brown leather. Wound up with 330Ci, silver gray, natural brown leather, steptronic, no moonroof. I am constantly re-thinking all these decisions. Yesterday I was jonesing for the 6-speed manual. When I see a clean, black 330Ci, I think... hmmmmm. After adding birch trim in my natural brown interior, I am very satisfied with this particular decision; important since that's what I see constantly while driving. I have also upgraded to the M-Tech front bumper... big improvement over the 04 facelift "toothy-grin" front bumper. I'm still back and forth on the silver gray. I get tons of compliments and every time I wash it, I'm glad I don't have black. But, damn, freshly washed jet black is just pure sex! Of course, I also think about all the money I could have saved by buying a 5-speed manual 325Ci with leatherette.... almost $10,000 cheaper! Never found a 5-speed 325 to drive, though, and there's no way I'm ordering a $30,000 car without a test drive.
Only problem I've had so far is a design flaw in the post March 2003 3-series... that is, the re-designed HVAC panel. Some problem in the programming allows it to run almost a full amp of current draw after turning off the key if you changed any setting during that ignition cycle. I have had to jump-start the car twice now after it sat more than three days. Temporary fix is to turn the ignition back on after shutting off to reset the memory. Still no word on when or if a fix is coming. That said, I still enjoy driving this car very much. The other irritation (black wheels from way-to-soft brake pads) has been taken care of with a $75 set of Axxis Deluxe Plus brake pads. Three weeks and 600 miles and wheels still look clean!

david325xi

My friend just brought one in Boston area for 300 above edmunds invoice price. PP, Heated seat, auto.

Does anyone know the maximum tire width I can put on a 2001 325xi? Current 205/55/R16.

blueguydotcom

Also, any tips on negotiating? I recall you saying that you got yours for $400 over invoice. I would really like to swing a similar deal-- $400 over "cost" (ie, invoice less their marketing support of 1500 or 2500).

For me it was the end of the month (23rd) on a holiday weekend. Obviously this time of the month is great to buy. Sunday would be the ultimate day to make your deal. Someone suggested on another forum walking with your deposit check written out and knowing exactly how much you want to pay for X car. Make sure they have the car, then talk directly to the sales manager. Put the check down and give him your price (less than you're actually willing to pay), pointing out the manu-to-dealer cash. End of the month, end of the week, sunday and it's a 2003 model...you can get a sweet deal. If the manager won't play ball, walk. He knows you're a serious buyer, that's what the check is for.

I'm struggling with the 325 vs. 330 debate. I tend to be somewhat thrifty... except for cars. And, unfortunately, I test drove the 3.0L engine and was really impressed (especially over the 2.5L)-- smooth revving and really spirited.


Have you tried a TSX manual? If you can put up with the power of the 325i, you might be willing to save yourself a good 5k and snag the TSX. That's what I would have bought had I not purchased my 330i.

blueguydotcom

On the other end of the spectrum is my wife's 3 series, which similar to blueguy is seriously devoid of any personal material that will help "humanize" and "personalize" her space... haha... but to her, that suits fine. Her other rules of course involve the total absence of food from her car, so even if there were no cup holders, it would not matter...

Same here. No food in the car. zip. Bring food into my car and it's not enclosed and in the trunk? Might as well call your next of kin.

Oh, blue, thanks for telling us where your credit cards can be found...

No, IDs and credit cards - Sam's Club, Costco, Best Buy CC (the only credit card) and an old student ID that's good through 2004 (and thus saves me dough at movies).

Feel free to take any of those cards.

kdshapiro

"Her other rules of course involve the total absence of food from her car, so even if there were no cup holders, it would not matter..."

I thought I was the only nut. My car has plenty of humanizing "junk" in it, but I have plenty of room for storage. Trunk maps and cds; glove box - manual; side pockets - cds; ash tray - coins; in-dash comparments - pens and garage door openers; coffee holders - travel coffee mug(1). Not sure where one runs out of room. Friend drives a car a few feet longer and he still runs out of room in his car. To some people, junk expands to fill the available space...no matter how big the space.

mrl11777

I, too, don't fully understand the complaints that there is not enough storage in the e46. Mine contains the manuals and ezpass in the glove box, sunglasses in the cubby above the ash tray, cell phone earbud in the rear ashtray, altoids in the tray in front of the change holder, baseball cap in driver door pocket, rolled-up cotton cloth in the pass side pocket (to clean up the potential drip from my double-sealed travel mug). Pen, notebook and army knife in tray under center armrest. CDs are in the changer.

Writing it all down, it seems like a lot of crap to me! And, the car looks empty.

What else do you need in the car?

That said, it would be nice to be able to easily replace the ashtrays with bins of some sort.

ksoman

I often rent cars in europe for my weekend drives and there is 0 cupholder up front... beat that...

ksso

mark_m

white6, you might want to schedule some service, my post March production 330 was (hopefully) cured of the IHKA blues.

From my invoice: "CODED LSZ PER TECH SUPPORT AND RECHECKED CURRENT DRAW. DRAW FELL TO 8 - 10 MA. MAX CURRENT DRAW IS 30MA. CURRENT DRAW IS WITHIN BMW SPEC."

The LSZ is the "Lamp control module", it was keeping the A/C control unit awake when the car was turned off.

yama330

I have had the same thing occur with my 2002 330xi(now 37,000 km). Yet when I check the oil level after the recommended 5 minute wait, the oil level may be no lower than 0.3L down from the maximum.

I think in my case it is the rocking, sharp turning and braking of the car after just before turning off the ignition that triggers the oil indicator. If I take the time to close the windows and the sun roof before switching off the ignition, the indicator does not come on. Same thing if I maneuver the car more gently before stopping.

I keep the oil level pretty much topped up to avoid this annoyance. By the way, the oil consumption has decreased by a factor of two from what it was when new from about qt/3,500mi to qt/8,000mi.

Hope this helps

white6

Thanks, I saw your post on bimmerfest... I have already contacted my dealer. Keep us up to date on whether this fixes this problem for good.

asleepy

Thanks Yama330. I'll keep an eye out of that. My service advisor has now asked me to keep a log of when and under what conditions the engine oil light comes on so I'll keep what you said in mind.

imadrone

I really appreciate all the fine information shared on the 3-Series and Euro Delivery boards. Edmunds has provided a treasure trove of objective data, as well as the equally important subjective information available on this forum. As a result, Mrs. Imadrone and I will be awakening in Munich's Hotel Uhland (multiple member recommendations) 3 weeks from today, and taking possession of our much anticipated 2004iT (Steel blue/gray, SP, 5-speed, H-K, PS). Following the tour, dinner/brew at our favorite beer hall, and another night at the Uhland, off for a week near Regensburg, with a series of day trips. Then, 2 more weeks travelling through Austria, Switzerland, northern Italy, southern France, northern Spain, prior to drop-off in Frankfurt on November 7th. Aside from a week driving in northern Italy 2 years ago, we have always travelled by train in Europe, primarily between larger cities. So we would appreciate any recommendations on lodging, must-see sights, exceptional drives, restaurants, etc. that touring in our Sport Wagon will permit. Also, advice on potential pitfalls, errors, glitches. We're looking forward to the freedom and pure driving pleasure of this trip and will greatly appreciate any helpful information from you good folks.

Many thanks,
Richard

imadrone

Incidentally, during our last trip to Europe in Oct/Nov 2001, the euro was worth $.88. As of today, $1.15. So, not only will everything cost at least 31% more (not counting inflation), but it is amazing that BMW has not raised the price of the 325i at all (except for PP) for 2004. Good currency hedging, intense competitive pressure, or both.

soupcan325i

I'm sure BMW is well-hedged, through its multiple international factories (US, SA, DE)...and international sourcing I'm sure. Plus, forwards and futures contracts out the wazoo. Long live purchasing power parity and the international fischer effect!

brave1heart

I think my 325i is at least as fast at 53K miles as it was when it was new. The G35 is a good alternative but it hasn't been around long for anyone to be able to claim that its reliability will be superior.

ddblue

I salute you spartans out there. I went from a '99 Accord EX Sedan with copious space to my 2001 325Ci, which storage-wise was a bit of an adjustment. Keep in mind, I am NOT a pack-rat or a slob. I am just VERY prepared.

- Left door pocket: napkins (for those unexpected spills), pen, telescoping baton.

- Right door pocket: sunshade

- Ashtray: loose change

- Cupholders: ceramic cigar ashtray, room for coffee

- Center Console: Sunglasses and case

- Changeholder: only good for jamming objects you have no need for ever again, including coins.

- Glovebox: manual, accelerometer, phone charger, spare bulbs, Leatherman Supertool, BMW touch-up paint

- Trunk: Windex, Meguiars Quick Wax, handi-wipes, rags, emergency flares, tire inflator, portable humidor and cigars, extra shoes, golf bag.

Okay, so I didn't buy a Bimmer for storage space (and I don't actually care that much). The trade-off for handling, refinement, and road-feel is more than worth it.

mrl11777

How about some Lysol for the cigar odor? And a dustbuster for the ashes?