BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

kdshapiro

Every vehicle is always a trade-off. I have not bought a vehicle in the last 15 years where there wasn't some trade-off in terms of space and performance. At this point I have a vehicle that can seat 7 and tow 7000 lbs, with lots of space but it is not a sports sedan. On the other hand I have a vehicle, which is a sports sedan and performs very nicely but does not seat 7 and I wouldn't want to tow with this vehicle. The sports sedan does not have the room of the 7 seater and the 7 seater does not have the feel of the sports sedan. It's all about trade-offs. BTW - I use each vehicle as intended. 7 seats is more of a requirement than my want for a sports sedan

nohash1

I am talking to a dealer and he wants $38,380 for a 330xi with premium, automatic transmission, metallic paint, and cold weather packagae. Can someone tell me if this is a good deal. He said it was $900 over Euro delivery invoice. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

sunilb

Thanks for the feedback-- seems like if the worst people can come up with is storage space, then I'll be okay

I have, however, been all over the map in my search for a vehicle. Though, I've pretty much decided on the BMW, I've had a *very* difficult time trying to decide to fork over $35K+ for a new car. So, I'm now leaning towards a slightly used vehicle.

Does anyone know the (approximate) annual maintenance cost of a 1999 (or newer) 328/330, once you pass 50K miles??

kyfdx

If you buy a 3-series just out of warranty, and drive it for 3 years @15K miles per year, figure on at least $100 per month for repairs and maintenance. You may spend less, but I wouldn't count on it. It really makes buying a new one or a CPO one sound much better, don't you think?

regards,
kyfdx

ddblue

I forgot to mention that I keep a can of Oust and a bottle of Febreze in my trunk, as well. The ashes and butts get pitched whenever I stop by a trash can (ashes are cooled off, of course)

ddblue

I'm sure many of you have already seen spyshots of the next Gen 3-Series. Not sure if this is the latest computer rendering or not, but if it's even close to what's to come, I'm keeping my E46. Okay, so it's not as bad as the new 5-series.

Btw, I just sat in the new 5 at my local dealership, and it is simply the 7's ugly younger brother. The interior is okay. The wood is the same laquered glossy surface, and the door handles are just too avant-garde. It also feels like a bit of the interior quality has been sacrificed for technology. Some of the class of the E39 has been lost. The rear decklid needs serious reworking.

Back to this 3. What is WITH those headlights and the bizarre bisecting of the front quarter panel?? The sides are not so bad. I'm not sure about the rear end, though. So much for form following function.

ksoman

Well cars have evolved over the past century.. and radically, in physical shape. I am betting, that with the 7 and 5 around for 2-4 years before the next 3 series hits the ground, we will all have gotten used to the new bmw style guide.. hehehehe

i personally still like the new 7, except for the funny tail.. but then you cant win everything.

I think the only good lookin car right now (new one, sensous looking since it has to interest me, a typical low IQ male...) is the new MB E class. I'm so tempted to give up my jag obsession and dump the S for the MB E... yummm

ksso

330iii

If you live in New York City does it really pay to have the all wheel drive 330xi as opposed to a 330i with snow tires? Also how bulletproof is the all wheel drive system as far as long term reliability?

wrjoyce

To follow up with 330iii, I too live in nyc and wanted to know the real value of awd. Someone in past discussion said that in light of the traction control and stability control in the 3 series and absent 6 inches of snow on unplowed road, a good snow tire will go long way inlieu of awd. Living in city I don't drive to work, car is for pleasure mostly weekends and quite frankly will be driving less in winter, (but the car will be used) I acknowledge that it is always possible to get caught in snowstorm unexpectedly but if it were snowing with serious accumulation, I would just delay the start of the trip to the country. So can snow tires perform well enough in normal winter driving in the north east to obviate the need for AWD?

memphis10

I got dragged with a friend to test drive a MB C230 today. It was a 2004 model with at sport pkg(not sure if it's standard or optional). The car felt nice with the stiffer suspension and bigger wheels. I redlined it a few times. Brakes were weak and the car flopped around the turns a little bit. After that when I got home on my 2003 325i, I could feel the world of difference. I cannot describe how much better the BMW I6 felt. I was really happy about my recent purchase. C230 is a big improvement over the sluggish C240 but not quite as nice as the 3 series. I hope it remains that way.

platypus

You redlined a brand-new car that had not been properly broken-in on a test drive when you had no intention of purchasing the vehicle??? I feel sorry for the unwitting future owner of that car.

nohash1

Can anyone help a novice with the pricing of a european delivery 330xi automobile and the best way to get that deal. I have been using eurobuyers price with a dealer and he said my pricing was wrong. I need help. Thanks

laurasdada

Hello, folks:
I live in the Boston area, am considering an '04 330ci (mid-life crisis mobile, I vastly prefer the coupe styling over sedan. 4 seats is only requisite...and must cost less than a year's salary!!! Evil wife's rule there). Anywho, regarding snow, does anyone here actually use their rwd 3 in the snow? Ski trips (VT, NH, ME)? Did you mount snows? Any real world experience would be appreciated, as the two "Evil Empire" folks above mentioned. Go Sox!

As a life long skiier, always driven fwd with no need for awd as luck, common sense and decent fwd cars have always gotten me there and back. But, I've always wanted a BMW or Mercedes. I dig the new E, but realize it's a different animal than the 3. Gonna drive both, eventually.

Thanks in advance.

blueguydotcom

You redlined a brand-new car that had not been properly broken-in on a test drive when you had no intention of purchasing the vehicle??? I feel sorry for the unwitting future owner of that car.


I did that with every car I test drove - toyota to bimmer to benz. I'll continue to do that with every car I test drive. i'm buying a car for what it can do all around. If you don't push a car through a test drive, you have no idea what you're buying.

I made the mistake years ago of not driving test vehicles hard or rather as hard as I do daily. I bought a car that way. Then felt annoyed that what I did on the test drive was about 90% of the car's abilities. I'll never make that mistake again...

Who would buy a car not physically knowing what it can and can't do?

mbt1

I am considering buying a 325ci and wondering about its crash ratings. I noticed that only the sedan's ratings were given on the two major crash ratings websites (hwysafety.org and nhtsa.dot.gov). The government tests gave the side crash a 3 star rating and noted that a pelvic injury is likely. Are there ratings anywhere for the coupe? Thanks in advance for the replies.

ksoman

Hey, having been frequenting the north east so often lately, i've noticed how true this black trim issues is. I had never noticed this trim on cars in phoenix... is this something regional?

After all, 97.32% of people in phoenix dont know how to parallel park, because 98.21% of the times they dont have a reason to parallel park, whereas, say somebody living in or around NYC... geez..

ksso

rpadilla

I live in Indiana, and last winter, we had record snow (it was so deep, once, that I had to have a friend pick me up for church because the BMW wouldn't have made it through the deep snow). I have snow tires (Michelin Alpin Sports), and I can tell you firsthand that Adele handled perfectly in the snow with the snow tires. Of course, you can't drive like a banshee down the snow covered streets, but, for every day driving, I had no real problems. Even drove from Chicago back to Carmel on I-65 in the middle of a snowstorm -- took 8 hours, and the roads were covered in a thick coating of compressed snow/ice, and, although I had to drive slowly, again, had no real problems (the only scary thing were the ruts taking control of my forward direction). I have never driven the xi, so I have no comparison, but, when I first looked at the 3-series two years ago, tried to decide between the i and the xi, I couldn't justify the expense of the 'x', and went with the i. Anyways, if you can justify the expense of the xi, go for it...but, as I understand, y'all in the NE get pounded with ice more that anything, and nothing short of studded tires will help you out with that! Good luck!

kdshapiro

I don't think there is any more information than you already found. You have to weigh the importance of knowing the gov't gave the 3-series a 3 rating in side impact tests. After thousands upon thousands have been sold since the introduction of the E46 in 1999.

Although as the saying goes, figures don't lie, but liars figure, I feel that the statistical probability I will be t-boned, and according to the gov't potentially injured, to be an OK risk for me and my family in light of the overall safe evaluation of this car.

If I were really concerned I would be driving a Hummer and would trade off injury in t-bone risk for injury in roll-over risk.

jb_shin

Also check out the Euroncap site www.euroncap.com for a different perspective. I believe their test requirements are more stringent than those of the US.

memphis10

I wouldn't have done it weren't it for the sales guy who redlined it a few times to show me how the MB was faster than my BMW (Yeah Right). I thought it was fair game after that.

sdradioguy

blueguy --

Where did you take the pictures of your 330i that you posted a few months back? Was it somewhere in San Diego county? There are so many good backdrops around here, it's difficult to choose just one or two places to take photos. If you, or anyone else, have suggestions on where to take car photos in SD county or elsewhere in SoCal (mountain and ocean views are a plus), please pass it along

ddblue

Anyone have the phone number for BMW of North America?

blueguydotcom

I took the 8 east and then hopped on that highway leading up to Julian. I think it's the 79. Amazing road to exercise a car - lotsa 180 degree and 270 degree corners. Tree-lined, then cliffs, etc. Keeps things fun.

I didn't go all the way up to Julian but pulled off on one of the rest areas (little more than a loop of asphalt with nice vistas.

someday

I need to make a decision by 9/30. I have decided on a 2003 330i but am uncertain about the following:

1 silver/black leather
premium
sport
cold weather
xenon

1 silver/gray leather
premium
sport
xenon
split rear seats

or

1 silver/black leather
premium
sport
xenon

How useful is cold weather package or the split folding rear seats? Since I live in Calif. the heated seats are probably not that useful but the folding rear seats might be.

any insight would be appreciated. thanks.

ksoman

thought not everyday... even in mild winters, the butt warmers are always nice...

nyccarguy

So today I saw 2 things that really disturbed me. First I see this E30 M3 (white) in great shape copming down the block. When it passes I see the what looked to be like 18" chrome wheels that were set on a suspension that hadn't been lowered properly. What a horrible sight!

Second hing. Has anybody seen the Dodge commercials for their "SXT" line (Dodge with Alloy wheels & kickin' CD sound system)? They show a guy in a 325Ci who is stuck delivering Pizza to afford his car while his friends in the Dodge SXT models are all partying hard. I understand the whole value message thery're trying to convey, but c'mon.

platypus

...for property that isn't your own.

If the dealer is offering you a demonstrator vehicle, then it's a different story - but otherwise, I'm stickin' to my guns. The car you abuse is the property of the dealer, and soon-to-be the property of another individual. After you bought your own car, did you follow the break-in guidelines? Would you be upset if you gave your friends the keys to your new car and they redlined, or "pushed" it when it had less than 100 miles? How can you reconcile treating someone else's car with such disregard, yet I presume maintain that your car should be treated with proper care?

"If you don't push a car through a test drive, you have no idea what you're buying."

On the contrary - you can take a car on a few sweeping turns, or better yet a twisty road if accessible, to get a feel for a car without overexceeding the rev-limit break-in guidelines. And you can certainly get a feel for a car's acceleration without redlining it. If you're a hard core 0-60 kind of person, then look at the car rag reviews. If you're posting on this board, then you're probably already fairly knowledegable about a car before you go and test drive it. They'll tell you that a 325i does 0-60 in about 7 seconds and a 330i does it in just over 6. Either of these cars has pretty good acceleration relative to the hundreds of other cars out there - what more are you proving by red-lining a test drive car?? You're certainly not going to reach those times in a test drive.

As for the salesperson who showed off his car by red-lining it - well that's a sure way to lose my business, and I would presume that of many other knowledgeable car enthusiasts. If that is how that particular dealer chooses to treat its cars, then I'll take my business where the cars aren't abused before they're sold.

It's the sense of entitlement and disregard for the golden rule that get under my skin on this subject.

kennynmd

If I lived in Cali., I would go with option 2 or 3 and save a few hundred dollars.

memphis10

I had my car for about 2 weeks and I had to take it to the dealer today. The car was pulling to the right from the day I picked it up. Besides, the steering was lighter than other 3s I had driven. After hearing about road crowning and tire pressure and new tires I decided to take it in. They had to do an alignment and now it is perfect and the steering feels heavenly. I guess someone had screwed up the pre-delivery inspection, but again stuff happens.

BTW, referring to post "#24433 someday" I would go with option 3. I have the same except I have the 'ette.

sdradioguy

Thanks. I forgot about both the 79 and Sunrise Highway. I'll try them both.

lars9

I completely agree with platypus. I might add that if you want to redline your OWN vehicle and abuse it before and after it's broken in, that's your perogative, but don't abuse someone else's property. The dealerships don't provide these vehicles for test beatings. Using Blueguy's reasoning, maybe a person test driving a vehicle should aim for giant potholes and other road imperfections in order to fully test the suspension and the strength of the wheels. This is the main reason that I ORDER my vehicles.

mrl11777

freaks when given a non-bmw when car is in for service. See a pattern?

ksoman

here's a reason to pay a little more over invoice and a few bucks... so that when you go in for some service, they can "afford" to give you a comparable loaner...

hehehe, a sleep deprived ksso (from lauging hard all night about the TSX v/s 325 topic)

blueguydotcom

If the dealer is offering you a demonstrator vehicle, then it's a different story - but otherwise, I'm stickin' to my guns. The car you abuse is the property of the dealer, and soon-to-be the property of another individual.

NMP = not my problem.

After you bought your own car, did you follow the break-in guidelines? Would you be upset if you gave your friends the keys to your new car and they redlined, or "pushed" it when it had less than 100 miles?

Did I redline my car during break-in? Yep. Not daily but around 20-30 times within the first 1k miles. Since then I nearly redline the car once or twice a drive. It's a lease. And the jury is still out on the whole "break-in" thing. I've read through thousands of posts on Bimmerfest and such and the only consistent thing I saw was a conservative 1950s view thar new cars must be babied. To each his own.

And I've always encouraged every person who has driven my car to really let it go. If they don't, then I switch places with them and show them what a ZHP can really do. Shift a ZHP at 4k rpm, you miss 80% of what that car can do.

How can you reconcile treating someone else's car with such disregard, yet I presume maintain that your car should be treated with proper care?

Oh brother, it's a sports sedan, not a GM!

On the contrary - you can take a car on a few sweeping turns, or better yet a twisty road if accessible, to get a feel for a car without overexceeding the rev-limit break-in guidelines.

Bull. Straight up bull. Until you've hit a 35 mph marked corner at 65-70 in third gear with the engine at over 4k rpm, you have no clue what this car will do. The more torque leading into the corner the tighter the line the ZHP pulls through it. And the more explosively you can exit the corner.

And you can certainly get a feel for a car's acceleration without redlining it.

You're off there too. Many cars lose steam the higher they get in the rev range. Others beg to be flogged that high - such as a TSX. Depends on the engine, but only taking the engine to the stratosphere will let you know how the enine really behaves at the upper limit. My test drive of a TSX manual involved keeping the engine above 4k rpm the entire time. A sweet engine and tranny on that car...

If you're a hard core 0-60 kind of person, then look at the car rag reviews.

Car reviews and magazines are utterly useless. Nothing can compare to feeling the vehicle for yourself. I will never take someone's word for how a car performs. Never. I don't believe people about cars, music, movies or food. I must experience it for myself.

They'll tell you that a 325i does 0-60 in about 7 seconds and a 330i does it in just over 6. Either of these cars has pretty good acceleration relative to the hundreds of other cars out there

IMHO, the 325i's a dog for the cost. I drove it and walked away depressed as a simple VW 1.8T for 10-15k less would provide better engine response (more torque consistently). The 325i's handling is the only thing that won me over.

- what more are you proving by red-lining a test drive car?? You're certainly not going to reach those times in a test drive.

Who is redlining in first? Did you ever stop to consider it was in second, third or fourth gear that one would redline? A freeway on-ramp hit at 50 in third gear is good to about 90-95 in my car. A serious of S curves marked at 35-45 is the perfect playground for a 3.0l inline 6 that's kept in 3rd as you're never going to be going less than 60-70 mph.

If that is how that particular dealer chooses to treat its cars, then I'll take my business where the cars aren't abused before they're sold.

I bought my car with the plastic and cardboard still in it.

It's the sense of entitlement and disregard for the golden rule that get under my skin on this subject.

entitlement? Please, if a dealer wants to they can have cars that are expressly for testing. A Subaru dealer did that with the WRX. They had a stick and auto available. Drive them both as hard as you want and then pick the one your want to own.

I love how people should buy cars without having a clue what it can really do. Or how the car will behave near the apex of its abilities. Nothing like walking into a 40k purchase ignorant...

cruz330ci

Either increase or decrease your meds, whatever you're taking now isn't doing much for you. For all I know you may be an admirable neighbor, co-worker, little league coach, etc. in real life, but on the basis of your recent statements I would never willingly drive the same roads as you, buy off the lot in any county you live near, or let you date my daughter.

If you're just doing an act, my congrats on a spectacularly convincing job. If not, grow the **** up already and quit tarnishing the marque and embarassing the rest of us.

kyfdx

SSSSHHHHEWWWWWWWW.

Anyway, in defense of blueguy, if I'm test driving, I'm test driving. If they have a car they don't want tested, then don't give it to me for a test drive. Especially a " sports " sedan.
If the dealer puts out cars that haven't been broken in for test drives, then sells them to unsuspecting customers, then thats a bad dealer.

Sorry, blueguy, this is the extent of my defense of your views....LOL

regards,
kyfdx

pat

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Let's say that we all have different ways of looking at these things and leave it at that.

There is NO need to get into personal attacks over differences of opinions, no matter how intensely we feel.

We need to drop this argument now.

Thanks.

wrjoyce

Hey guys, now that we have vented, can you help out and give your real life expereince with snow and bad conditions while driving an 330xi or a 330i assume automatic. First with snow tires do you need xi to drive safely albeit cautiously when you are caught in the snow or will all the new safety/handling features of a 330i with snow tires be enough except in the most extreme weather conditions (when you should be off the road anyway). Assume that we all agree it is not an SUV.
Secondly, what no one seems to mention is whether xi handling is somehow diminished on dry road conditions. My point is that fans of rwd are very critical of front wheel drive, well and xi is some steps less then a 100% rear wheel drive. Is it noticable.
Third, a new generation of awd is being readied for the 5 series, and i think in the x-5 all ready, Anyone have any comparision between the old awd that is in the 3 series and the new in the x-5. Is it so superior

someday

Just closed on a 2003 silver 330i

w/Premium
w/Sport
w/cold
xenon

Now...I know these have been discussed in the past and I have read a few of these messages but I'm wondering if people have any fresh insight on
the value of

extended warrany
lojacks
car alarm

thanks

nyccarguy

I know it is so common (there is a reason for this), but silver on a 330Ci looks amazing! I saw one (of many) silver 3ers, but this one stuck out. The car was just gleaming clean with sparkling SP wheels, freshly dressed tires, and windows tinted extrememly dark...DAMN!

blueguydotcom

The only way someone can steal your bimmer, as far as I know, is to tow it.

You can get the clown nose on your bimmer to blink so people think you have an alarm. If they're not deterred by the blinking light, the sound of an alarm won't stop that kinda person from pillaging your interior for goodies.

jb_shin

In 2 1/2 years of driving in Germany, I can probably count the number of AWD BWM sedans I have seen with my 2 hands (need my toes to count MB sedans). I have not experienced too much snow in Berlin, but it does snow quite a bit down south near the Alps. Germans seem to handle the weather just fine with RWD, but the winter tires are a must (I don't think the studs are legal here, but I could be wrong) and the strict driver's ed. Oh, the chains are used in the mountain areas.

As many have already said, a set of good winter tires will get you through most winter weather conditions. If the tires can't handle it, then perhaps you shouldn't be out in the first place, or be driving something else with higher ground clearance.

rhmass

As someone with both BMW drivetrains in the family, I can say that BMW can handle most of the winter driving (including the bad one in Boston last year)very well with a set of good snow/ice tires. The xi model, on the other hand, has spared me from snow tire changeover twice a year (spring and late fall). That is a plus. There is not much a difference in expense as the set of snow tires with steel wheels run about $700 with addtional $35 each time for the changeover.
I had no hesitation to drive in either cars in the snow last year. However I do think the $1,800
AWD option is worthwhile.

ksoman

i noticed a lot of people talk about paying to change tires in winter... when you are changing all 4, is it "technically" incorrect to do one wheel at a time by just putting the car up on a jack, one wheel at a time? Can I do it on my own?

sorry if i sound stupid and unworthy of my engineering degree...

ksso

erickpl

I have an xi. I have driven other RWD cars, and from my POV, the xi doesn't feel too much different. Under normal situations, it is a 60/40 rear bias split.

In my mountain driving, with 4-6 inches of the really really wet, turns-to-ice-when-compacted snow, I have never noticed my lights on my dash light up to indicate that the AWD is transferring more power to the front. I have never lost control during acceleration, regular driving, or stopping while in this car (at least unintentionally ).

The xi's (at least my 325) have a sport package available, but it is not the same as what you would find on the normal 325i. I wish my suspension was a bit stiffer and the tires a bit wider, but I have never exceeded the car's capabilities.

I find acceleration and handling adequate for what I want. I find passing at speed (either 4th or 5th gear) to be very nice, even up mountain highway roads (highway 58 out of Bakersfield, CA).

If I had to redo the transaction, I may have gone for the regular 325i and SP. But this car has given me great peace of mind, regardless of the surfaces and conditions I experience while driving it.

I have even found it more sure-footed than my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Quadra Drive that we use for our ski trips to Mammoth Mountain.

-Paul

kominsky

There's no reason you shouldn't do the swap on your own. Personally, I wouldn't want to do it with the OEM jack but with a decent floor jack, it's a piece of cake.

kominsky

... a good torque wrench

gordonwd

How would a 325i do in winter driving with the standard all-season tires? Is it really necessary to get snow tires? I have been driving an A4 1.8T Quattro for the last six years and before that a series of FWD cars, so I haven't put snow tires on a car for the last 30 years or more. I live in the Detroit area and we have not had a lot of snow for quite a while now, so frankly I probably hardly ever made much use of the Quattro.

Of course, as soon as I get a 325, we'll have the snowstorm of the decade and I'll be wishing for the Audi! Yes, I know about the 325xi but would like to drive a true RWD car again for a few years.

aldubya

I also live in the Detroit area (Bloomfield Township)and have a 2001, 325xi. Have driven it thru the last 2 winters on all season tires. Handles very well. Of course, I'm not driving up or down any moutain roads. And, as you stated, the winters here the last couple of years have been on the mild side. But, I do drive to An Arbor twice a week. I always wanted to drive a BMW for years and only leased one when I could get the AWD 325xi. Word here seems to be that a 325i with snow tires in the winter handles very well. I'm pleased with my 325xi and will either buy it at my lease termination or lease another.

ddblue

I lived in Northern Virginia for 8 years and just lived through last winter (brutal--and I can say brutal, since I'm originally from Chicago). My 2001 325Ci was a joke in the snow with the performance tires (SP). I got stuck on a 5 degree grade in the parking lot of McDonald's in about an inch of snow. Quite embarrassing, to say the least. Never did get that QP w/ cheese, either.

IMHO, I think all-seasons on a RWD BMW would not fare a whole lot better than the performance tires. Why? Well, I've seen a number of non-SP 528s get stuck in little more than a couple of inches of snow. After my McD's incident, I ordered a set of Dunlop Wintersport M2s from the Tirerack. Phenomenal snow tire and amazing in the rain and in the dry, as well. It made a world of difference, and I was able to get around in 5+ inches of snow (not like a 4x4 or AWD, mind you). I think it makes all the difference in the world. All-seasons are the equivalent of wearing one pair of shoes for all activities (sports, business, casual). It just doesn't work well in all conditions. I drive my 325Ci with the Dunlops from mid-October to the middle of March. Even when it's dry, the tires really hug the road well, and I should know as I drive pretty darned hard (8/10ths).