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gordonwd... Found your following comments interesting, though not sure what to make of it:
"it's not enough that we're all "snobs" for driving BMWs, but we're even snobbish within snobbery. You don't have a "real BMW" because you don't have the Sport Package; you don't have a "real BMW" because you don't have a manual trans; you don't have a "real BMW" because you have an el-cheapo 325; and on, and on."
Having owned 2 Infiniti, 2 BMW, and 2 Lexus over the past 8 years (with one Lincoln in the mix), seems like anyone who drives a premium marque is sometimes viewed as a snob.
But I never did notice a difference between the vast majority of Infiniti, BMW, and Lexus owners I met and interacted with (at dealership, gas stations, neighbors, etc.). The vast majority of car owners in USA, these marques included, don't care about how the car performs. Too many are too interested in owning the "right" marque. Or they had to have certain bells/whistles that luxury cars tended to have (e.g., heated seats, nav systems, etc.). Or they didn't want to buy a marque because too many people already drive too many of them where they live. But their car is really only an appliance status symbol. Too bad.
My favorite BMW owner class are those who won't own a 3 Series unless it is made in Germany. They wouldn't want to own one built in South Africa. I like to ask them if they consider the Z3 and Z4 real BMWs since both are made in USA. [That usually causes a pause; I wonder if they are afraid they might appear racist if they say they'll own only USA- and German- but not South African-made BMWs.]
From my perspective, usually seemed that the most marque-obsessed/least performance interested people were BMW owners driving the standard dealership-ordered car: Prem Pkg, automatic, etc. They just had to have a BMW. They didn't care how the car performed. Heck, they'd get mad if it didn't have all-season tires because they didn't want to be bothered with summer or winter performance issues. Second best was good enough in the right car. Didn't matter to them. They'd never ever even drive the car hard. That wasn't why they wanted to be seen in their BMW. Many would've been equally happy with a similarly equipped Mercedes Benz.
Thankfully there are the "hardcore" BMW enthusiasts that keep organizations like BMW CCA and its locals alive. They separate BMW owners from Japan, Inc! [If you want to preserve the marque and love BMWs, join. I bought a life membership so I'd never have to worry about renewals and I'd eventually always be eligible for the membership rebate program.]
I keep praying the upcoming 1/2 Series provide an affordable, gimmick-free, performance-oriented BMW experience. A smaller, lighter Sport Pkg equipped manual 325i. The Miata of BMWs? If not, might just get a turbocharged Miata 6-speed!
don't leave man. Your opinion will just be another one that adds value to this board. I think you may be the only manual transmission non-SP poster on the board.
We want to hear about your driving experiences and how you're taking off ramps at crazy speeds that you wouldn't have before and so on.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
I hope you are right about the upcoming 1/2 series. The next 3-series, however, is widely believed to be ~ 6" longer than the E46, so it is very likely that the 1/2 series will be about the same size as the E46.
I joined the BMWCCA (for the second time), and I like some of the magazine.. but, the letters from the guys who think everything BMW has made since the '70s is crap really gets on my nerves.
And (flame suit on), it reminds me a little of all the E39 owners who swear that BMW is ruined because of the new E60. It will be 2030 and they'll still be griping about how they haven't made a decent sedan since '03.
Anyway...hopefully, I'll get to use my BMWCCA discount on a new one someday.
The skidpad number is important. There is a formula that allows you to determine how much speed a car can carry through a corner:
mph = sqrt(15GR) where G is that skidpad number and R is the radius of the arc that you are driving on through the corner.
If R is 600 ft and your car handles .81 g's like the 325i non-SP, plug in the numbers and you'll find that the car can carry 85.4 mph through the corner.
With the same arc radius, a car like the 325i SP that pulls .86 g's on the skidpad will be able to go through the corner at 88 mph. While this may not seem like a huge difference for street driving, it will make a couple of second difference per lap at the track because that 2-3 mph cornering advantage gives you a better exit speed and you carry that much more speed on the straightaway. Also, the lower profile tires will allow you to brake much better, so that may be worth at least another second per lap. If 3 sec per lap does not seem like much, on a 50-lap race between equal drivers, the 325 MANUAL non-sport will end up 2.5 MINUTES behind the 325 MANUAL with a sport pack. On a track like Lime Rock, you'd be more than 2 laps behind. I'm not even touching the acceleration disadvantage of an automatic transmission here. Get the idea?
dont leave man, i know some of the comments posted here are quite annoying, but like the others said just ignore it man.
and guys...having "only" a 325i doesnt mean its cheap, i mean compared to stuffs like camry and accords this sure is a nice car, even a basic 325i. And IMO, sport packages doesnt add much to its handling.
Thats interesting, however you should also notice that theres different quality between cars assembled in Germany and ones built in US, South Africa, or Thailand. I dunno about the ones made in South Africa, but the ones from thailand surely have more problems than german made beemers. And US made...I seriously doubt id ever buy one, particularly with its horrible records of reliability. But yeah I still consider the z3 and z4 real beemers.
I totally agree w/ you about that marque thing, most bmw owners dont even care about what their beemers can do, all they wanna know is "I'm driving a BMW" or "Im driving a Mercedes", etc...its all about prestige in their cases. As for beemer maniacs, they wont even think of driving a Mercedes if they want handling and performance, they're 2 totally different animals afterall
"If 3 sec per lap does not seem like much, on a 50-lap race between equal drivers, the 325 MANUAL non-sport will end up 2.5 MINUTES behind the 325 MANUAL with a sport pack. On a track like Lime Rock, you'd be more than 2 laps behind."
Yeah, but almost always, we're not running circles doing laps so you can laugh at your buddies over & over each time you pass them again. Besides, even on the laps of Willow Spring & Button Willow, I kept goofing around doing drifting or fishtail for more fun, since we're not really racing anyway.
&, on public road, my non-sport 325i w/ better steering confidence will be several minutes ahead of MOST TSX drivers who are afraid to approach near their limit, let alone several of those non-sport C320 friends of mine. & I'm already sick of having them not able to follow me on group trips. So while keeping myself nearly as slow so they could follow me in sight, I can at least enjoy better steering feel than theirs.
& I'm tire of reading almost every comparison test, especially the British ones, that kept saying the 3-series handles better but the X-type & C-class ride better, eventhough they still gave the Beemer 1st place almost every time. Why not just compare the non-sport 3-series to the other guys w/ optional sport suspension? So maybe we can see something like "the 3-series outperforms the other guys in both ride & handing". Well, too bad, the sport suspension became std on all 2wd 3-series in Europe since '02, unless you ask for the non-sport suspension "comfort package" in Britain.
“"If the 3-series's sport suspension is only firmer but NOT LOWERED, then I might prefer the firmer suspension 'cause you want to be able to not having to SLOW DOWN when cornering hard when the road turns bumpy in the real world, not just on the track."
What? My 330i Perf Pack is lowered even more than a standard 330i sport and I've never had a problem with its 18s and the suspension soaking up road irregularities. If anything the Performance Package suspension is too soft. No slowing when coming to corners, push in rotate and EXPLODE - or take off as best is possible with BMW's torque-less, overrated inline 6.”
Why explode w/ all the commotion? Why not glide thru w/ sophistication? Once the suspension-travel is shortened, the capacity is lessened.
Here's what the June '01 CAR's comparison said:
"(330i sport w/ 18") And on poor surfaces the ride gets very busy indeed, with PLENTY of vertical oscillation. But behind all that, the springs and dampers are still very much in control, remaining calm and collected and letting the tyres do their thing, backing you up on the bigger bumps and hollows"
"(X-Type 3.0 Sport) Ride is more contentious. The Jaguar's higher-speed body control is very good. Mid-corner bumps that would be CHATTERING TEETH in the BMW get swallowed whole, excellent damping stopping any secondary indigestion. But at lower speeds, especially in town, the taut springs never allowed our Sport to settle down, a situation doubtless exacerbated by the low-profile tyres."
See, the 3-series w/ lowered sport suspension corners over bumps less comfortably than even the X-type Sport that's already not-so-pampering riding at lower speeds, although the Jag has 17" instead of 18".
My first BMW was a 1999 328i 5-Speed, PP, Xenon, In-dash CD and Metallic Paint, and which with the exception of the 5-Speed, it was a poseur BMW if there ever was one, according to the hard core types anyway. Then Brave1Heart and I swapped cars for a day and a half and I got a chance to enjoy his SP equipped 325i on roads that ranged from upstate NY mountain curvies to the thousand year old surfaces in NYC. Contrary to what m4d_cow posted in message #26330, the SP DOES make a substantial difference in how the car can handle, albeit at a moderate stiffening of the ride. My opinion at the time was that the ride suffered a little (but was still more than acceptable for daily commuting in and around NYC), while the trade-off was considerably better handling. So much so that I ordered my 530i a few months later with the SP.
Do I think those who drive BMWs with automatics and all-seasons are poseurs? Well, that depends. If the person is simply driving the car because of the badge, then yes. However, if they are driving the car because of the driving enjoyment that it brings them (in the end I guess that's all that really counts), even if it's not the ear bleeding/head stuck to the door glass (just kidding) handling of the SP equipped cars, then no. The beauty of the BMW lineup is that you can order it the way it pleases you the most, Manual/SMG/Automatic, SP/ZHP/All-Seasons, Leather/ette, and the list goes on.
Just for the record, even though my 328i was a non-SP/All-Season equipped car, it could still easily bury the Toyonda/Camcord cars of the world in the twisties. I say that because I've rented enough of those cars during my travels to have a fairly well honed sense of what a car will do.
Why explode w/ all the commotion? Why not glide thru w/ sophistication? Once the suspension-travel is shortened, the capacity is lessened.
Sophistication? It's a car. There's nothing remotely sophisticated (in the sense you used the word) about a car. If I wanted a pampered, dowdy ride I would have gotten a Buick-like Camry. I want raw, brute force. The last gen RX-7 is last car I recall driving that made me giddy the moment I exited a corner and felt myself pinned to the seat.
See, the 3-series w/ lowered sport suspension corners over bumps less comfortably than even the X-type Sport that's already not-so-pampering riding at lower speeds, although the Jag has 17" instead of 18".
See what? You quoted a stupid magazine. That's like saying a movie is bad because Roger Ebert dissed it. I've driven both cars and as I said before my ZHP feels too soft for my tastes. No magazine article can counteract that.
Bumps? Man, I don't have hemmoroids, so I could not care less how supple and smooth the drive is. And passenger comfort is of zero concern to me. They can get out if they don't like it. I still want an M3 sedan.
"Bumps? Man, I don't have hemmoroids, so I could not care less how supple and smooth the drive is."
Sounds like you'd rather have something like the S2000 than a BMW, which has improved low-end torque this year. Or maybe the Z for the torque, but even CR found it no fun to drive. 'cause I don't think most people need hemorrhoid to appreciate a composed ride.
"Contrary to what m4d_cow posted in message #26330, the SP DOES make a substantial difference in how the car can handle, albeit at a moderate stiffening of the ride. My opinion at the time was that the ride suffered a little (but was still more than acceptable for daily commuting in and around NYC), while the trade-off was considerably better handling."
There's no doubt "the SP DOES make a substantial difference in how the car can handle" 'cause the suspension is both firmer & lowered plus the plus-1 tire/wheel set-up & summer tires.
But the regular-suspension 325i really isn't bad at all if the tires on the 16"s are replaced w/ summer tires just like the '99 323i sport & all the 325ci, which has the lowered sport suspension std, w/16"s! & since '01.5, BMW's "over-boosted steering for 6-months" is not just removed & changed the steering bushings, but the ratio also became quicker w/ 1/2 less turn lock-to-lock so the straight ahead dead spot is gone.
As far as "the ride suffered a little (but was still more than acceptable for daily commuting in and around NYC)", once the bumps get deeper, then the difference will be significant due to the spring-length difference.
This isn't 3-specific since all modern cars have this problem AFAIK, but it would be nice if they could do something to make cars enjoyable to drive with the windows down. Any old-timers will recall that, up to the late 60's or so, cars always had those small, vertical, crank-open "vent windows" on the side just aft of the windshield. In addition to providing ventilation on their own, they were also used as wind deflectors when you had the side windows cranked down, letting you get plenty of air without the buffeting.
These days, if you lower both front windows at highway speeds, you get beaten up pretty badly by wind turbulence. I guess they figure everybody keeps the windows up and a/c on, but I really like riding in the fresh air. And now that I just sold my (BMW) motorcycle without replacing it, I'd like to get my "air time" in my 325!
I guess I have seen cars with those clear plastic deflectors, but I wouldn't go that route unless they were quickly and easily removable.
Thanks for the info, makes me wanna try the SP equipped bmw once again. I heard the '04 330i comes standard w/ sport suspension, and Im currently considering to get one of those. Personally I prefer manual tranny but my daily activities in the big city doesnt support that.
I still think the one that really matters is the excitement, Im sure even a basic 325i can still give you lots of driving pleasure, and i mean a lot. Afterall in the end its still about how you drive it lol.
Just to change the subject from SP vs Non-SP debate, I have noticed a musty smell coming from the Climate control vent when the AC is switched off. There is no smell if the AC is on or when the entire climate control is shut down. Some people leave the AC on the entire time and just change the temperature setting. I don't enjoy the dip in torque when the AC is on. I use the AC for cooling and to control the humidity but when the weather is pleasant I just want the normal air but no smell. Any suggestions or is this an issue for the dealer.
"I heard the '04 330i comes standard w/ sport suspension, and Im currently considering to get one of those."
Since '01.5, sport suspension is std on all 2wd 3-series in the U.S. except the 325i sedan & maybe the 330 convertible. Which means you can get the base 325ci coupe w/ 16"s & still got the sport suspension std.
I kept finding the coupe's driving position that much better than the sedan, both the E36 & E46. I also don't like the E46 sedan's rear visibility width, which affects the "lane-change/passing performance" & that's real-world speed/safety. But I still find the E46 coupe ugly, though.
If outside temp is > 75 or so, I usually drive with the sunroof open and all windows down even at highway speeds. Turbulence is significantly less with all windows down than lowering just the front windows.
"I have noticed a musty smell coming from the Climate control vent when the AC is switched off. There is no smell if the AC is on or when the entire climate control is shut down."
It's actually caused by the mildew when using the AC(especially when running in the recirculate mode), but you only smell it after you shut off the AC. If you stop using the AC for a few days & only run the ventilation w/o using the recirculate mode, then that smell should go away. So the solution? Either ask the dealer if the material used in the system is a faulty design & needs to be replaced for free under any new service bulletin. My '90 Mazda Protege had 2 service bulletins for that. The 1st one replaced w/ plastic material but smells like plastic, so the next one had another material which pretty much took care of my mildew problem.
But you are still "obligated" to shut off the AC & run in the fresh-air mode for several seconds(preferably in full fan speed if you want to save time) before you turn off the engine every time! So the humidity in the system gets flushed away & won't leave the mold any chance to multiply.
I've been yelling at several bitchy girls who refuse to run on the fresh mode, but only silently inside my heart. ;-) What a wimp!
Yes, that's a common problem with the E46. Here's how to resolve it (it worked great for me!!):
1. Buy Lysol antibacterial spray 2. Start the car and put the A/C in the lowest temp setting and highest fan speed. Do this preferably after the car has not been run for at least a few hours. Also, make sure that the car is sucking air from outside instead of recalculating it. 3. Pop up the hood, find the microfilter, which is directly under the air vents in the hood, turn the 3 knobs on the cover to take it out, take out the microfilter and you will see two openings underneath where all the air into the car is sucked form. 4. With the engine and A/C still running, spray Lysol directly into the vents. The A/C coils will absorb the spray, which will kill the bacteria that cause the musty smell. 5. Shut off the engine and put the microfilter and cover back on. Preferably, do not drive the car for a few hours.
Man! If you don't know what LSD is all about in a RWD, then you don't know what you've been missing! Back in '01 at the IS300 drive event, I asked, "If the car has traction-control std, then why would you need the optional LSD?"
The reply I got was, "You're suppose to turn off the traction control in order to start using the function of the LSD." So that's how these pro drivers demonstrated the IS300 auto w/o the lowered sport suspension doing back-end drift all the time on the track.
Since ordinary RWD cars only got Unlimited Slip Differential, if you apply enough power to break the traction, only one rear tire will spin & therefore lose traction, while the other tire simply loses power all together. So it's an all show w/ noxious smoke/smell & no go. & the car won't drift wide for fun.
Well Umm I sort of disagree. Who am I to judge the motives of the buyer. Nobody appointed me chief almighty supreme ruler of the poseur world. I drive a car because I choose to drive a car, it doesn't matter what label is on the front. And I sure do not care what anybody thinks or the reasons that I drive it.
Sort of interesting in the in my estimation 99% of Porsche buyers are poseurs, but nobody talks about them. They don't care about racing these fine machines or tracking them. All they want to do is sit in the same traffic I'm sitting in.
BTW I don't drive a BMW because of the label, I drive it because of what the label implies. Whether each and every one of us, get the same connection it's irrelevant to my thought.
Disagree. I was an Accord/Camry driver for years, based on reliability. I was looking for a car, and was considering the usuals, but I had some time to kill near a BMW dealer so I test drove a 3 series. As soon as I drove it I knew that it was the car for me.
It's on the window sticker with all the car specifications: they have plants in Regensburg and Munich in Germany and the one in South Africa (don't remember the name); the sticker also indicates country of origin percentages for car components. I always keep the window sticker as well as a brochure of the model year in the car file, for the record. If the car is used, you may have to take the VIN number and inquire BMW directly.
Thanks...unfortunetly I did not keep the window sticker. Is there any other way to trace it if was manufactured in Germany or South Africa? Regards, Webby
Thanks...this is great. The only difference I see that my vin indicates EV5 and you stated AV5 330i....perhaps it indicates the Canadian model? I am glad that the car was manufactured in Munich. Regards, Webby
I do know exactly what a limited slip differential is all about. It's just that I had a brain fade and did not know that that's what "LSD" in that message stood for. Might be due to being in college in the 60's and confusing it with something else :-).
Thanks...this is great. The only difference I see that my vin indicates EV5 and you stated AV5 330i....perhaps it indicates the Canadian model? I am glad that the car was manufactured in Munich. Regards, Webby
I was in BMW today for service and got talking to one of the salesmen, who naturally got me looking at the 2004 cars. I have a 2002 320i - the lease expires July 1 2005 and at that time I intend on getting a 325i. Today the salesman offered me a current rate of 2.8% financing if I trade in my car now instead of waiting until 2005. (my current rate is 7.45%). He told me there would be an approx. $2,000 charge to cancel the lease early. However, I put a downpayment on my first lease (foolishly I now believe) of $7,000 so the way I look at it I already pre-paid them about $200.00 per month or around $2,500 for the last 13 months of my lease. Under these circumstances I don't think I should have to pay anything to "cancel" the lease early. Any advice on how best to deal with the salesman, other than telling him what I just told all of you. Also, any reason you can think of not to trade in now, given what I see is a great lease rate. Thanks.
If I understand this correctly, your early lease termination penalty works out to ~ $200/mo. So if you are saving $200 or more a month, it may be worth for you to go with a new lease now. I am calculating that a $35K asset financed at your current rate is $2,600/yr. At the new rate, it is $980, or a saving of $135/mo. Still not worth to do it financially. They may be non-financial reasons why you want to do it, though...
Really...the only thing that matters is what your car is worth (the trade-in value they assign it) and what the payoff to BMWFS is. Are they really having you give $2000 to BMWFS to take your car back early? Or, are they asking you for $2000 extra to payoff your lease and take your car in trade?
If the $2K is going to BMWFS, then you don't really have any room for negotiation. No leasing company is going to let you end a lease early without penalty. But, if they are taking your car in trade, then considering your large downpayment, its possible they are shorting you on the trade, and there may be some negotiation available.
I have a 1995 4-door 5 speed 318i sedan with less than 70,000 miles on it. Excellent condition..but could use a little more power. I'm thinking of upgrading the car with some after-market enhancements such as the Dinan Performance Engine chip (estimated to increase HP by 11 hp at 4500 RPM) and/or the high-flow throttle body (new peak hp - 164hp - per Dinan website).
Any recommendations? Messages from earlier postings on this site and in other forums seem to indicate that the engine chip is not worth it as compared to a stage I suspension. Given that the 318 has ~118hp, I'm leaning towards first increasing the hp before investing in a stage I suspension (if at all).
Also, what about the K&N Air Filter? Any and all advice is very appreciated.
Just test drove one, Often jerked like crazy from a standing start, even after it was fully warmed up (like someone releasing the clutch too quickly). Seemed to constantly search for the right gear at lower speeds. This was a new car with about 50 miles on it.
Was this a lemon, or is it just the way this car behaves? If the latter, I can't see how they sell any of them.
but are not in a hurry. We are willing to wait for end of month and end of quarter....whatever you guys can suggest...all of you....would be deeply appreciated.....
Unfortunately I didn`t give the same level of research to the 330ci I did with the cay s. Nor am I a wealth of knowledge on topics such as countries of origin. I`d say if your wife feels comfortable with her tests of the 325 she will probably enjoy the car. And if you already feel instinctively ok with it thats probably more than enough endorsement. It`s a tied and true vehicle thats at the end of its current model , no? Add an end of month deal and you should probably be able to walk away with a killer deal, high.
As I said before I`m not a fan of the sports package unless your really looking for the absolute best performance possible, but you will sacrifice ride quality, and it doesn`t sound like either of you are too concerned with pushing the envelope with this vehicle. Juist pull the trigger and make a deal and drive it home.
"I am thinking about a 325i for my wife. she test drove it and the MINI S and the Mercedes C240...and she prefers the 325 i . I do too."
Why?
Is it the way the Mini S rides? I only drove the less-firm CVT Mini w/ run-flat tires, & it wasn't even the tires that forcefully tossing me airborne over every dip while the lap belt straps me down uncomfortably. It's the suspension.
Was it the C240's lack of low end torque? Or you forgot to include the less-loose sport suspension? Or you did but the steering feel still sucks & the interior only comes in black?
&, of course, I don't think the 325i w/ base suspension has any of the above problems. But I only find the C-class sedan & the 3-series coupe offering a wide-enough rear visibility for easy lane change/passing.
"should I go for the 330i ?"
Why? 'cause its $3300 premium/leather package includes the lumbar that goes up & down on both front seats? If you're in no hurry & can wait for 2 months, then this lumbar thing($450) can be special ordered on a 325i w/ power seats($995), even the super-supportive sport seats($550) from the sport package can be ordered w/o requiring the power seats! So we just ordered a 325i auto w/ all these seat features(total $1995) for about $32k. Unlike the $40k 330i auto premium, our "custom built" 325i didn't require the harder-to-maintain expensive real leather($1450). creakid1 Apr 28, 2004 4:11am
It is sort of a waste to get a 325i w/ the 17" sport suspension, 'cause the larger brakes the 17"-rims allow aren't available for the 325i. If you like the lowered sport suspension, then the expensive 330i, which has it & the large brakes standard, is a good choice 'cause its extra low-end torque actually saves gas, although the salesman told me the exhaust is louder. So only the 325i, especially when combining w/ the quieter 16" wheel/tires, gives you a quieter fwy cruise despite slightly higher rpm, which hardly affects the noise level on a 6-cyl.
You have the right to choose the German-made 325i even if you are ordering one. The S African-made 325i's auto tranny is made in France.
Comments
"it's not enough that we're all "snobs" for driving BMWs, but we're even snobbish within snobbery. You don't have a "real BMW" because you don't have the Sport Package; you don't have a "real BMW" because you don't have a manual trans; you don't have a "real BMW" because you have an el-cheapo 325; and on, and on."
Having owned 2 Infiniti, 2 BMW, and 2 Lexus over the past 8 years (with one Lincoln in the mix), seems like anyone who drives a premium marque is sometimes viewed as a snob.
But I never did notice a difference between the vast majority of Infiniti, BMW, and Lexus owners I met and interacted with (at dealership, gas stations, neighbors, etc.). The vast majority of car owners in USA, these marques included, don't care about how the car performs. Too many are too interested in owning the "right" marque. Or they had to have certain bells/whistles that luxury cars tended to have (e.g., heated seats, nav systems, etc.). Or they didn't want to buy a marque because too many people already drive too many of them where they live. But their car is really only an appliance status symbol. Too bad.
My favorite BMW owner class are those who won't own a 3 Series unless it is made in Germany. They wouldn't want to own one built in South Africa. I like to ask them if they consider the Z3 and Z4 real BMWs since both are made in USA. [That usually causes a pause; I wonder if they are afraid they might appear racist if they say they'll own only USA- and German- but not South African-made BMWs.]
From my perspective, usually seemed that the most marque-obsessed/least performance interested people were BMW owners driving the standard dealership-ordered car: Prem Pkg, automatic, etc. They just had to have a BMW. They didn't care how the car performed. Heck, they'd get mad if it didn't have all-season tires because they didn't want to be bothered with summer or winter performance issues. Second best was good enough in the right car. Didn't matter to them. They'd never ever even drive the car hard. That wasn't why they wanted to be seen in their BMW. Many would've been equally happy with a similarly equipped Mercedes Benz.
Thankfully there are the "hardcore" BMW enthusiasts that keep organizations like BMW CCA and its locals alive. They separate BMW owners from Japan, Inc! [If you want to preserve the marque and love BMWs, join. I bought a life membership so I'd never have to worry about renewals and I'd eventually always be eligible for the membership rebate program.]
I keep praying the upcoming 1/2 Series provide an affordable, gimmick-free, performance-oriented BMW experience. A smaller, lighter Sport Pkg equipped manual 325i. The Miata of BMWs? If not, might just get a turbocharged Miata 6-speed!
I buy BMW to be pampered by its comfort w/o sacrificing handling/steering. What other car can do that?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
We want to hear about your driving experiences and how you're taking off ramps at crazy speeds that you wouldn't have before and so on.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
And (flame suit on), it reminds me a little of all the E39 owners who swear that BMW is ruined because of the new E60. It will be 2030 and they'll still be griping about how they haven't made a decent sedan since '03.
Anyway...hopefully, I'll get to use my BMWCCA discount on a new one someday.
regards,
kyfdx
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mph = sqrt(15GR)
where G is that skidpad number and R is the radius of the arc that you are driving on through the corner.
If R is 600 ft and your car handles .81 g's like the 325i non-SP, plug in the numbers and you'll find that the car can carry 85.4 mph through the corner.
With the same arc radius, a car like the 325i SP that pulls .86 g's on the skidpad will be able to go through the corner at 88 mph. While this may not seem like a huge difference for street driving, it will make a couple of second difference per lap at the track because that 2-3 mph cornering advantage gives you a better exit speed and you carry that much more speed on the straightaway. Also, the lower profile tires will allow you to brake much better, so that may be worth at least another second per lap. If 3 sec per lap does not seem like much, on a 50-lap race between equal drivers, the 325 MANUAL non-sport will end up 2.5 MINUTES behind the 325 MANUAL with a sport pack. On a track like Lime Rock, you'd be more than 2 laps behind. I'm not even touching the acceleration disadvantage of an automatic transmission here. Get the idea?
and guys...having "only" a 325i doesnt mean its cheap, i mean compared to stuffs like camry and accords this sure is a nice car, even a basic 325i. And IMO, sport packages doesnt add much to its handling.
I dunno about the ones made in South Africa, but the ones from thailand surely have more problems than german made beemers. And US made...I seriously doubt id ever buy one, particularly with its horrible records of reliability.
But yeah I still consider the z3 and z4 real beemers.
I totally agree w/ you about that marque thing, most bmw owners dont even care about what their beemers can do, all they wanna know is "I'm driving a BMW" or "Im driving a Mercedes", etc...its all about prestige in their cases.
As for beemer maniacs, they wont even think of driving a Mercedes if they want handling and performance, they're 2 totally different animals afterall
Yeah, but almost always, we're not running circles doing laps so you can laugh at your buddies over & over each time you pass them again. Besides, even on the laps of Willow Spring & Button Willow, I kept goofing around doing drifting or fishtail for more fun, since we're not really racing anyway.
&, on public road, my non-sport 325i w/ better steering confidence will be several minutes ahead of MOST TSX drivers who are afraid to approach near their limit, let alone several of those non-sport C320 friends of mine. & I'm already sick of having them not able to follow me on group trips. So while keeping myself nearly as slow so they could follow me in sight, I can at least enjoy better steering feel than theirs.
& I'm tire of reading almost every comparison test, especially the British ones, that kept saying the 3-series handles better but the X-type & C-class ride better, eventhough they still gave the Beemer 1st place almost every time. Why not just compare the non-sport 3-series to the other guys w/ optional sport suspension? So maybe we can see something like "the 3-series outperforms the other guys in both ride & handing". Well, too bad, the sport suspension became std on all 2wd 3-series in Europe since '02, unless you ask for the non-sport suspension "comfort package" in Britain.
What? My 330i Perf Pack is lowered even more than a standard 330i sport and I've never had a problem with its 18s and the suspension soaking up road irregularities. If anything the Performance Package suspension is too soft. No slowing when coming to corners, push in rotate and EXPLODE - or take off as best is possible with BMW's torque-less, overrated inline 6.”
Why explode w/ all the commotion? Why not glide thru w/ sophistication? Once the suspension-travel is shortened, the capacity is lessened.
Here's what the June '01 CAR's comparison said:
"(330i sport w/ 18") And on poor surfaces the ride gets very busy indeed, with PLENTY of vertical oscillation. But behind all that, the springs and dampers are still very much in control, remaining calm and collected and letting the tyres do their thing, backing you up on the bigger bumps and hollows"
"(X-Type 3.0 Sport) Ride is more contentious. The Jaguar's higher-speed body control is very good. Mid-corner bumps that would be CHATTERING TEETH in the BMW get swallowed whole, excellent damping stopping any secondary indigestion. But at lower speeds, especially in town, the taut springs never allowed our Sport to settle down, a situation doubtless exacerbated by the low-profile tyres."
See, the 3-series w/ lowered sport suspension corners over bumps less comfortably than even the X-type Sport that's already not-so-pampering riding at lower speeds, although the Jag has 17" instead of 18".
Do I think those who drive BMWs with automatics and all-seasons are poseurs? Well, that depends. If the person is simply driving the car because of the badge, then yes. However, if they are driving the car because of the driving enjoyment that it brings them (in the end I guess that's all that really counts), even if it's not the ear bleeding/head stuck to the door glass (just kidding) handling of the SP equipped cars, then no. The beauty of the BMW lineup is that you can order it the way it pleases you the most, Manual/SMG/Automatic, SP/ZHP/All-Seasons, Leather/ette, and the list goes on.
Just for the record, even though my 328i was a non-SP/All-Season equipped car, it could still easily bury the Toyonda/Camcord cars of the world in the twisties. I say that because I've rented enough of those cars during my travels to have a fairly well honed sense of what a car will do.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Sophistication? It's a car. There's nothing remotely sophisticated (in the sense you used the word) about a car. If I wanted a pampered, dowdy ride I would have gotten a Buick-like Camry. I want raw, brute force. The last gen RX-7 is last car I recall driving that made me giddy the moment I exited a corner and felt myself pinned to the seat.
See, the 3-series w/ lowered sport suspension corners over bumps less comfortably than even the X-type Sport that's already not-so-pampering riding at lower speeds, although the Jag has 17" instead of 18".
See what? You quoted a stupid magazine. That's like saying a movie is bad because Roger Ebert dissed it. I've driven both cars and as I said before my ZHP feels too soft for my tastes. No magazine article can counteract that.
Bumps? Man, I don't have hemmoroids, so I could not care less how supple and smooth the drive is. And passenger comfort is of zero concern to me. They can get out if they don't like it. I still want an M3 sedan.
Sounds like you'd rather have something like the S2000 than a BMW, which has improved low-end torque this year. Or maybe the Z for the torque, but even CR found it no fun to drive. 'cause I don't think most people need hemorrhoid to appreciate a composed ride.
There's no doubt "the SP DOES make a substantial difference in how the car can handle" 'cause the suspension is both firmer & lowered plus the plus-1 tire/wheel set-up & summer tires.
But the regular-suspension 325i really isn't bad at all if the tires on the 16"s are replaced w/ summer tires just like the '99 323i sport & all the 325ci, which has the lowered sport suspension std, w/16"s! & since '01.5, BMW's "over-boosted steering for 6-months" is not just removed & changed the steering bushings, but the ratio also became quicker w/ 1/2 less turn lock-to-lock so the straight ahead dead spot is gone.
As far as "the ride suffered a little (but was still more than acceptable for daily commuting in and around NYC)", once the bumps get deeper, then the difference will be significant due to the spring-length difference.
These days, if you lower both front windows at highway speeds, you get beaten up pretty badly by wind turbulence. I guess they figure everybody keeps the windows up and a/c on, but I really like riding in the fresh air. And now that I just sold my (BMW) motorcycle without replacing it, I'd like to get my "air time" in my 325!
I guess I have seen cars with those clear plastic deflectors, but I wouldn't go that route unless they were quickly and easily removable.
I heard the '04 330i comes standard w/ sport suspension, and Im currently considering to get one of those.
Personally I prefer manual tranny but my daily activities in the big city doesnt support that.
I still think the one that really matters is the excitement, Im sure even a basic 325i can still give you lots of driving pleasure, and i mean a lot. Afterall in the end its still about how you drive it lol.
Since '01.5, sport suspension is std on all 2wd 3-series in the U.S. except the 325i sedan & maybe the 330 convertible. Which means you can get the base 325ci coupe w/ 16"s & still got the sport suspension std.
I kept finding the coupe's driving position that much better than the sedan, both the E36 & E46. I also don't like the E46 sedan's rear visibility width, which affects the "lane-change/passing performance" & that's real-world speed/safety. But I still find the E46 coupe ugly, though.
If outside temp is > 75 or so, I usually drive with the sunroof open and all windows down even at highway speeds. Turbulence is significantly less with all windows down than lowering just the front windows.
It's actually caused by the mildew when using the AC(especially when running in the recirculate mode), but you only smell it after you shut off the AC. If you stop using the AC for a few days & only run the ventilation w/o using the recirculate mode, then that smell should go away. So the solution? Either ask the dealer if the material used in the system is a faulty design & needs to be replaced for free under any new service bulletin. My '90 Mazda Protege had 2 service bulletins for that. The 1st one replaced w/ plastic material but smells like plastic, so the next one had another material which pretty much took care of my mildew problem.
But you are still "obligated" to shut off the AC & run in the fresh-air mode for several seconds(preferably in full fan speed if you want to save time) before you turn off the engine every time! So the humidity in the system gets flushed away & won't leave the mold any chance to multiply.
I've been yelling at several bitchy girls who refuse to run on the fresh mode, but only silently inside my heart. ;-) What a wimp!
1. Buy Lysol antibacterial spray
2. Start the car and put the A/C in the lowest temp setting and highest fan speed. Do this preferably after the car has not been run for at least a few hours. Also, make sure that the car is sucking air from outside instead of recalculating it.
3. Pop up the hood, find the microfilter, which is directly under the air vents in the hood, turn the 3 knobs on the cover to take it out, take out the microfilter and you will see two openings underneath where all the air into the car is sucked form.
4. With the engine and A/C still running, spray Lysol directly into the vents. The A/C coils will absorb the spray, which will kill the bacteria that cause the musty smell.
5. Shut off the engine and put the microfilter and cover back on. Preferably, do not drive the car for a few hours.
The reply I got was, "You're suppose to turn off the traction control in order to start using the function of the LSD." So that's how these pro drivers demonstrated the IS300 auto w/o the lowered sport suspension doing back-end drift all the time on the track.
Since ordinary RWD cars only got Unlimited Slip Differential, if you apply enough power to break the traction, only one rear tire will spin & therefore lose traction, while the other tire simply loses power all together. So it's an all show w/ noxious smoke/smell & no go. & the car won't drift wide for fun.
Sort of interesting in the in my estimation 99% of Porsche buyers are poseurs, but nobody talks about them. They don't care about racing these fine machines or tracking them. All they want to do is sit in the same traffic I'm sitting in.
BTW I don't drive a BMW because of the label, I drive it because of what the label implies. Whether each and every one of us, get the same connection it's irrelevant to my thought.
Or, if any of you have one, could you post a review?
Thanks,
Webby
Is there any other way to trace it if was manufactured in Germany or South Africa?
Regards,
Webby
Best Regards,
Shipo
The VIN consists of 17 digits.
Digit Value Meaning
1,2,3 Manufacturer
WBA BMW AG
4,5,6 Model
AM3 323i
AM5 328i
BM3 323Ci
BM5 328Ci
AV5 330i
BS5 330Cic
BN5 330Ci
BS3 325Cic
BN3 325Ci
AV3 325i
AN3 325i SA built
AW3 325iT
7 Country
3 United States model
8 Restraint System
3 or 4 Dual, de-powered airbags
9 Check digit
10 Model year
X 1999
Y 2000
1 2001
2 2002
11 Assembly plant
F Munich
K Munich
C Dingolfing
F Dingolfing
E Regensberg
J Regensberg
N South Africa (currently 325i's only)
12-17 Serial number
6 digit serial number
The only difference I see that my vin indicates EV5 and you stated AV5 330i....perhaps it indicates the Canadian model?
I am glad that the car was manufactured in Munich.
Regards,
Webby
The only difference I see that my vin indicates EV5 and you stated AV5 330i....perhaps it indicates the Canadian model?
I am glad that the car was manufactured in Munich.
Regards,
Webby
If the $2K is going to BMWFS, then you don't really have any room for negotiation. No leasing company is going to let you end a lease early without penalty. But, if they are taking your car in trade, then considering your large downpayment, its possible they are shorting you on the trade, and there may be some negotiation available.
regards,
kyfdx
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Any recommendations? Messages from earlier postings on this site and in other forums seem to indicate that the engine chip is not worth it as compared to a stage I suspension. Given that the 318 has ~118hp, I'm leaning towards first increasing the hp before investing in a stage I suspension (if at all).
Also, what about the K&N Air Filter? Any and all advice is very appreciated.
Thanks
AutoCrazy
Was this a lemon, or is it just the way this car behaves? If the latter, I can't see how they sell any of them.
I am thinking about a 325i for my wife. she test drove it and the MINI S and the Mercedes C240...and she prefers the 325 i . I do too.
can you summurize or give me your most heart felt feelings about the 325i ...posi or neg...?
should I go for the 330i ? I do think the power is enough in the 325 i, and my wife agrees.
Are there any make problems ? IS south africa built a negative or positive ?
thanks high...
high..
As I said before I`m not a fan of the sports package unless your really looking for the absolute best performance possible, but you will sacrifice ride quality, and it doesn`t sound like either of you are too concerned with pushing the envelope with this vehicle. Juist pull the trigger and make a deal and drive it home.
Why?
Is it the way the Mini S rides? I only drove the less-firm CVT Mini w/ run-flat tires, & it wasn't even the tires that forcefully tossing me airborne over every dip while the lap belt straps me down uncomfortably. It's the suspension.
Was it the C240's lack of low end torque? Or you forgot to include the less-loose sport suspension? Or you did but the steering feel still sucks & the interior only comes in black?
&, of course, I don't think the 325i w/ base suspension has any of the above problems. But I only find the C-class sedan & the 3-series coupe offering a wide-enough rear visibility for easy lane change/passing.
"should I go for the 330i ?"
Why? 'cause its $3300 premium/leather package includes the lumbar that goes up & down on both front seats? If you're in no hurry & can wait for 2 months, then this lumbar thing($450) can be special ordered on a 325i w/ power seats($995), even the super-supportive sport seats($550) from the sport package can be ordered w/o requiring the power seats! So we just ordered a 325i auto w/ all these seat features(total $1995) for about $32k. Unlike the $40k 330i auto premium, our "custom built" 325i didn't require the harder-to-maintain expensive real leather($1450).
creakid1 Apr 28, 2004 4:11am
It is sort of a waste to get a 325i w/ the 17" sport suspension, 'cause the larger brakes the 17"-rims allow aren't available for the 325i. If you like the lowered sport suspension, then the expensive 330i, which has it & the large brakes standard, is a good choice 'cause its extra low-end torque actually saves gas, although the salesman told me the exhaust is louder. So only the 325i, especially when combining w/ the quieter 16" wheel/tires, gives you a quieter fwy cruise despite slightly higher rpm, which hardly affects the noise level on a 6-cyl.
You have the right to choose the German-made 325i even if you are ordering one. The S African-made 325i's auto tranny is made in France.