BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

blueguydotcom

mcubed...

The M3 only comes with SMG and manual. If you weren't shifting it, you got exactly what you'd expect from asking a manual (SMG) to drive like an auto. The SMG is designed to be shifted by you, the driver. Yes, there's an auto mode but it's really for stop -n -go traffic. The M3's not designed for the drivers who refuse to shift on their own - kinda defeats the whole concept of the M3.

Pearly:

Any advice on how best to deal with the salesman, other than telling him what I just told all of you. Also, any reason you can think of not to trade in now, given what I see is a great lease rate. Thanks.

1. It's not a great least rate. In 2 or 3 months you'll see insane ones and you can buy the car for thousands less with manu-to-dealer incentives.

2. It sounds like they're offering you a low trade-in. Do up your car's value as a trade-in on Edmunds and then check BMWUSA to find out your lease payoff. If you're 2/3rds of the way through your lease and you dumped 7k into it (wow, the dealer must have been happy with that!) there doesn't seem any logical way you could owe any money to BMWFS if the trade in deal is even decent.

3. Better deals are out there and will be available by the end of summer.

highender

thanks dubster....

yes, me too...I did a lot of research on the Cay, but know little of 325i.....

I'll try to hang around with these guys a while then....

see you back on Cay forum...:-)

highender

YES...exactly...the mini cooper S just tossed both of us around ...and we are used to bumpy rides !! so it is a no-go for the Mini..

Yes, also. The C240 (and I guess the C230 ) had such low end torque, that if you stepped on the throttle, it just sat there...! It was less ressponsive than the 325i, and looks less sporty...

So we have settled on the 325i. I think you implied that we should get the one made in Germany, cause the one made in South Africa had a tranny made in France, which I take is less reliable...?

OK, I'll shoot for one made in Germany. A 325i , with 16 inch wheels, and all else regular...I'm OK with any type of seats....

Any other suggestions, advice , do 's or don't s ?

I really need to bone up on the car....

thanks for the previous info, creakid... :-)

ponytrekker

The SA 325i's are fine. Isn't it mostly the XI's that have been having trouble?

shipo

Ummm, if I'm not mistaken, ALL 3-Series automatics are made in France. Yes, no?

Best Regards,
Shipo

butmywife1

Do you guys know if the optional lumbar can be ordered on any 3 series model?

Creakid: I also have the greygreen and love it.

ButMyWife

dubster

good luck--you can`t go too wrong any way you go

scottlp

I was going to buy a 325xi because I didn't think I needed the 330xi. A friend urged me to consider going for the bigger engine. What convinced me was that where I live (Pittsburgh) there are at least 3 highways I travel regularly where in order to get off at my exit, I need to cross 3 lanes of traffic very quickly. I went for the 330xi and have been very glad I did.

Oh don't get the bigger engine if you are the sort who would get yourself in trouble with it.

Scott

307web

Sounds really dangerous if even a 325 cannot manage exiting the freeway at those locations.
How does everyone else do it?

blueguydotcom

Sounds really dangerous if even a 325 cannot manage exiting the freeway at those locations.
How does everyone else do it?

Probably the same way so many californians merge onto the freeway from ramps with stoplight entrances - they just screw up the flow of traffic and endanger everybody else.

People in forums laugh when I bring it up, but I plain do not like going less than 70 by the time I hit the end of freeway on-ramps. Seems most of california feels the otherway - they just don't want to accelerate and don't care if their merging is slower than the flow. They figure, ah, the other drivers will brake for me.

scottlp

I confess I did not do a comparison, blinded or otherwise. I just meant that the extra power in the 330xi is nice to have in reserve for moments where you might need extra power, even if your regular driving habits don't warrant the larger engine.

Oh and one of those spots the road you are on is coming into the highway from the left side, so you are actually merging into the left lane of a 3 lane highway...lots of fun during busy times.

Scott

riez

BMW has been using GM and ZF automatics. The Steptronic software is BMW's. Believe the GMs are built in France. Don't know about the ZFs.

According to Fred Larimer's "BMW Buyer's Guide", MBI Books, 2002:

E46 325i/Ci used ZF 5 HP 19
E46 330i/Ci used ZF 5 HP 19

E46 325xi used GM 5
E46 330xi used GM 5

E46 328i/Ci used GM 5
E46 323i/Ci used GM 5

The new E60 5 Series is using ZFs. 525i & 530i both use ZF 6 HP 19 and 545i uses ZF 6 HP 26.

BMW ATs have had some reliability concerns for past few years. Problems tend to arise in the 80-120K range. Not too surprising since BMW doesn't have dealers or drivers do any service work on them. Ya still gotta periodically change fluids and filters. Of course, the long-term solution is to stick with MT.

brave1heart

<<< I plain do not like going less than 70 by the time I hit the end of freeway on-ramps.>>> For me, entry speed is always relative to the flow of traffic that I am merging in. 90+ percent of the time, I merge in at higher speed than the flow of traffic. It is safer that way as it is easier to bleed off speed fast than to accelerate. Most of all, it is more fun!!

And no, I've never had problems doing that with a 325. The only reason to have a bigger engine than that for merging in traffic is if accelerating is an afterthought (wrong gear and/or just not paying attention).

blueguydotcom

And no, I've never had problems doing that with a 325. The only reason to have a bigger engine than that for merging in traffic is if accelerating is an afterthought (wrong gear and/or just not paying attention).

It depends on what you mean by problems. I know with a 325i in manual form it simply can't make me feel secure in the knowledge that from the end of the on-ramp (where California puts the on-ramp lights - you know, right before the entry to the freeway) it's gonna give me the power I need to go from a standstill to 70 mph in less than 100 yards. Can it do it? Maybe if you wring the car out like mad but there's nothing else left if you need more.

This has nothing to do with not paying attention or using the wrong gear and to assert such is personally offensive. You're at a standstill. No matter how much attention you're paying or how clever you are with the gears, it's nothing more advanced than brute acceleration.

Maybe you don't have on-ramps with the light at the edge of the freeway. It's certainly not a smart way to build freeways but caltrans proves consistently, the last thing they'd ever want to build in this state is an efficient freeway system.

postoak

It really depends on the configuration you have. riez posted these numbers on the 5-series board a while back. They don't include numbers for the xi models but they give some idea of how much things can vary:

Using BMW's published 0-60 mph figures for the MY 2003 E39:

530i: 6.8
530ia: 7.0
525i: 7.8
525ia: 8.3

330i: 6.4
330ia: 7.0
325i: 7.1
325ia: 8.1

Not sure what your standards are, but 8.3 seconds is an eternity.

Notice my and brave1heart's manual 325i is just about equal to the 330ia and you'll see why we don't feel accelerating up to freeway speed is any problem.

deg856

Oh, come on! You must be confusing getting on the freeway with launching a jet fighter off a carrier. How do you think all those delivery trucks and economy cars accelerate onto the freeway? The metering lights are on during heavy traffic commute hours. If you storm onto the freeway at 70 mph you'd have to slam on your brake hard to avoid rear ending someone crawling along on the congested freeway. Feel free to buy a faster car to suit your own needs but no need to come up with justifications that make no sense.

scottlp

My original comment was not made in regard to merging onto freeways, but having just entered the freeway via an onramp, being able to accelerate quickly enough to exit the 3 lane freeway via an exit which is on the other side of the freeway and only a short distance ahead. And I have a 330xi automatic, which is a good thing as I have a knee injury and will be undergoing arthroscopic surgery next week.

brave1heart

I thought that you can't drive faster than 10 mph on freeways in CA anyhow )

We don't have lights like that in the NorthEast.

blueguydotcom

How do you think all those delivery trucks and economy cars accelerate onto the freeway? The metering lights are on during heavy traffic commute hours.

They don't. That's the point of my complaint and the reason I prefer a car with gumption. Most californians will not accelerate hard onto a freeway and when they run out of on-ramp lane, they merge forcing slow lane traffic to brake hard.

If you storm onto the freeway at 70 mph you'd have to slam on your brake hard to avoid rear ending someone crawling along on the congested freeway.

Not in North San Diego on southbound freeways. Every day I either enter one of two freeways to head south for home. My drive to and from work averages over 75 mph. Both those onramps use inane stoplights. Traffic is moving at over 65 mph southbound. My normal commuter, an 03 Protege ES with 5 speed cannnot accomplish this feat. Freeway merges when the stoplights are on is anything but fun.

Feel free to buy a faster car to suit your own needs but no need to come up with justifications that make no sense.

The temerity of such a statement is mind boggling. I prefer to not put myself in harm's way. Most californians drive with no thought to disturbing the flow. They will move into a lane even though a car in that same is approaching at 20-30-40 mph faster than their current speed. "My turn signal is on, so I get to enter that lane."

creakid1

"Yes, also. The C240 (and I guess the C230 ) had such low end torque, that if you stepped on the throttle, it just sat there...! It was less ressponsive than the 325i, and looks less sporty..."

The 2.5 inline 6-cyl from the 325i doesn't need the power-draining balance shafts to counter the vibration. That's one reason the 2.6 90-degree(a stupid cost-cutting design that needs balance shafts) V6 from the C240 lost so much torque through out the rev range that it can't even compete w/ the smaller-displacement 2.5 325i for low end, let alone the low-end biased 2.5 323i. The 1.8 4-cyl from the more recent C230 isn't weak by depending on the heavy-pressurizing Kompressor, which makes the throttle response unnaturally non-linear. & since it's just an inline 4-cyl, it's also got the balance shafts.

"So we have settled on the 325i. I think you implied that we should get the one made in Germany, cause the one made in South Africa had a tranny made in France, which I take is less reliable...?"

I only heard rumors that the S.A.-built 325i's are quite unreliable. The window sticker clearly specify where the tranny's made. & German-built 325i's got German-built trannys.

creakid1

"Do you guys know if the optional lumbar can be ordered on any 3 series model?"

Yes, it's a new offer. Like the headlight washer, power rear sunshade, sport seats, etc., only on special-order cars to be built. It's $450 for both front seats but might also require the $995 power seats w/ memory & auto right-mirror-tilt on reverse.

Having the up&down feature on the lumbar is cool!
creakid1 Apr 29, 2004 5:37pm

wjc12345

Greetings all,

First - I enjoy this forum very much - some really great info!

I took delivery of my new Silver Grey 325i 6 days ago...and I've still got a silly grin on my face. is it wrong to love the key, too!? Just a note about my choices - I opted to go without the premium package and leather seats...if anyone is hesitant about the leatherette - they shouldn't be - it looks great. Also, the titanium trimming inside with the black leatherette looks very sporty - especially with a silver grey exterior - I was never a fan of the wood trim (I was also on a bit of a budget)so the $$ saved does not sacrafice interior Aesthetics (just my opinion).

My question really deals with long term care & warranties. I financed the car through AAA (got a really sold rate - almost 1.5% lower than through BMW of Manhattan). I decided to get the 7ys/70,000 Platinum coverage (essentially, a bumper-to bumper warranty, the most comprehensive they offer). I realize that the first 4 years of this if moot - since we all have 4 yrs maintanence free service. I will not put more than 5k-7k miles per year on the car. So, after my 4 years are up with BMW, I should have no more than 30,000 miles. So here is the $64,000 question. I will spend approx $2,340 on the extended coverage from AAA. This will really amount to an extra 3 years of protection (I am not worried about going over the 70,000 miles mark during the 7 years). Talked to my dealer - according to him ,BMW does not directly offer extended warranties. Does anyone have experience with AAA's extended warranties OR does anyone have any insight as to whether this deal is a good one? The $2,340 is being added to all my monthly payments. I did call back AAA and ask (for an estimation) of what it would cost to get a 3 yr warranty on a 4 yr old BMW (looking ahead to 2008 when my warranty expires) - they told me it is impossible to quote an exact price now (because they won't know what the 2004 will be like 4 yrs from now in terms of reliability, but they did tell me the cost of a 2000 model yr 325/328i for 3 yrs of full bumper to bumper coverage will be about $2,200 dollars.

Any help here would be appreciated - just curious to see if the $2,300 dollars I am financing now is worth it or if I can go somewhere else (now or 4 years from now) and get a better deal.

PS - I can cancel the AAA warranty at any time, and there is a $0 (zero) deductible on any repairs. I purchased the car (did not lease)

Thanks!

memphis10

The 2.5 I6 is a beautiful engine but it does lack torque at lower RPMs but so does the 3.0 and the 3.0 ZHP. I own a 325 and I have driven the 330 and ZHP several times. The 3.0 does have more torque than the 2.5 but not enough to pin you back to your seat at lower RPMs. That's the way BMW engines are. But low torque is irritating for in town driving I have never found myself in a jam accelerating on a ramp with my 325. I had felt that with a Saturn on the 101 freeway. If you are in the right gear you have plenty of oomph even on the 2.5 engine to merge with the traffic without any problem. Here in the south the interstate ramps are longer and I can get upto 100 mph before merging. 70 mph is a piece of cake even for the "lethargic 2.5". With the MB C240 you can step on the pedal and start praying.

mark_325i

You just got the car and you are worrying about the warranty for years 5 thru 7? And you skipped leather and PP to save money but are willing to buy a $2300 insurance policy that will not have any use for at least 4 years? And, you are gonna finance that insurance policy (so it'll cost you what? another 3 or 4 hundred bucks?)?

Oh boy -- a dealer's dream. Read these boards and get up to speed before you spend any more money.

ksoman

just wondering. didn't need it in AZ, might need it lots in NJ...

ksso

krsipykreme

what are the shift points for manual tranny? i have '04 325i, 'ette, titanium trim, metallic grey.

blueguydotcom

what are the shift points for manual tranny? i have '04 325i, 'ette, titanium trim, metallic grey.


Before redline...or anywhere else you want.

riez

Never:

1. Overrev the engine (i.e., stay below redline).
2. Lug the engine.
3. Forget to take into account weather and road condition (i.e., might use 2nd gear start for snow & ice).

What you choose to do in between is up to you.

If you shift at lower RPMs (assuming you aren't lugging), you'll get better fuel economy at the expense of acceleration.

If you shift at higher RPMs (assuming you don't overrev), you'll get better acceleration at the expense of fuel economy.

If you want to have some fun, find one of those cars with an "upshift indicator" light. Most are designed to maximize fuel economy and thus give you a light the moment the RPMs are low enough to justify.

blueguydotcom

Of course you can't overrev a BMW as the fuel gets cut off.

Hmm, how would I know that? LOL

creakid1

"INTERIOR
Audi really does do the best interiors in the industry right now. The way that the dash curves around into the door panels, the color and texture matching, and the consistent size and placement of buttons and other controls are very well done on the A4. The BMW is a bit less well put together from a design standpoint. And with the sand interior the black upper instrument panel is a bit too much of a contrast. At least the wood trim that comes with the PP looks really nice with this color combo. On the other hand, everything you need to get at is WITHIN REACH of the driver, and it does come off as more of a business-like layout to match its "driver&#146;s car" reputation."

Not just w/in reach, but w/in eyesight while looking outside. How can anyone stand the A4's climate-control location w/ little buttons that take more time to make adjustment than dials/levers? As soon as the A4 came out in the '90's, I already couldn't stand this kind of design along w/ the VW's, plus that touchy brakes, Oh... No wonder I'm so proud of my old "Rabbit w/ a trunk"(see my profile).
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?viewUserProfile!vuserName=c- reakid1

Even the 3-series w/ navigation that forces the climate-control location to move one step downward is a no-no for me.

"Major non-features for me are the displays having to do with gas mileage, especially the one taking space below the speedometer. Yes, I know that the instantaneous mileage sucks when the throttle is well open and that I am getting 50 mpg when coasting up to a stop. Is this gauge (probably just a VACUUM GAUGE) useful for anything in a performance car? The readouts on the computer are somewhat more informative, but still..."

There's got to be a reason why this little swinging needle right in front of your face still exists in today's BMW. First of all, a digital read out doesn't attract the driver's attention as well when comes to show whether the change is going upward or downward. That's why BMW stays w/ the more intuitive circular analog gauge designs.

It gives you the "instantaneous read out & change" which gear or throttle opening saves more gas for cruising continuously.

This is more sophisticated than just a vacuum gauge, which doesn't tell you that your mpg is lower while doing light-throttle coasting(high vacuum) in gear & shifting to neutral saves more gas.

brave1heart

I'm not familiar with long-term warranties on BMWs through the dealer directly, AAA or anybody else but to spend $2,340 to cover you (maybe!!) for 3 years or ~ 20K miles is simply throwing money away. This is almost 12 cents a mile for a non-dealer warranty product?!? I keep very detailed logs of the maintenance costs for my '01 325i with 62K miles on it and they translate to 8 cents a miles so far. Keep in mind that this is with nearly 30 track days and autoX events and it also includes the cost of snow tires and dedicated allow rims. If I were you, I'd keep the money, put it in a dedicated savings account and draw from it for maintenance repairs as needed.

brave1heart

I shift at the lowest possible RPM until the car has warmed up (couple of minutes after the water temp needle has reached the halfway point). Then I start raising the shift points gradually. If I am driving for fuel economy, I'd shift as low as possible and do a lot of coasting. If I am out for a spirited drive, I'll shift just over 6K RPMs and keep the RPMs in the 4,500 - 6,500 RPM range. Rev limiter on stock cars is at 6,700 RPMs. I have the Shark Injector and it cuts off at 7K sharp - I only let it rev up that high at the autoX or track when it doesn't make sense to upshift for a couple of seconds or so before having to downshift again. I would not worry about revving the engine into the redline for a few seconds - BMW engines are very strong and they are likely to outlast the rest of the car anyhow.

shipo

"...BMW engines are very strong and they are likely to outlast the rest of the car anyhow."

A'int that the truth. The specialty BMW shop where I just had my summer set of tires balanced has an E30 525i 5-Speed for sale (I don&#146;t know the year), and it has somewhere north of 220,000 miles on it. According to the guy who owns the shop, it has great compression on all 6 cylinders and only uses a quart of oil about every 2,500 miles. Not too shabby. Funny thing though, both the body and the interior (leather seats included) still look good too. That means that the engine still needs to go a considerable bit to "outlast the rest of the car." My bet is that that thing still has an easy 80K miles of life left in it, maybe more.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Well... you can over-rev it on a downshift.. You can blow it up that way, even without fuel.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

I suggest you cancel this immediately. If you actually drove 70K miles in 7 years, at least you would get more use out of it. A million different things could happen in the next four years. If you feel like you will want the warranty when the factory warranty expires, make that decision when the time comes.

Also, if you financed the warranty, don't expect a refund directly. They will send the refund to the finance company to lower the principal on your loan.

regards,
kyfdx

eman6628

Is there any different in the elecrontic speed limiter cut off point between a non sport package 2004 330ci and a 'M' sport package 330ci?

brave1heart

To the best of my knowledge, the sport packages don't touch anything in the ECU area, so there should be no difference.

kyfdx

This "M" sport package... is that a Canada only option? Is it the same as the U.S. spec performance package?

shipo

Interestingly enough, for the 2004 model year every BMW except the 3-Series has a top speed somewhere north of 140 (except the Z4 2.5i 5-Speed manual that runs out of gears, so to speak, at 137). I wonder why the 3-Series is still languishing with the old 128 limit. According to the BMWUSA site, the following top speeds are the current version of the truth for the various models:

3-Series (All versions): 128
M3 (All versions): 155
525i (6-Speed Automatic): 144
525i (6-Speed Manual): 146
525i (6-Speed SMG): 146
530i (All versions): 150
545i (All versions): 150
645Ci (All versions): 149
7-Series (All versions): 149
Z4 2.5i (5-Speed Manual): 137
Z4 2.5i (5-Speed Automatic): 141
Z4 2.5i (6-Speed SMG): 146
Z4 3.0i (6-Speed Manual): 155
Z4 3.0i (5-Speed Automatic): 152
Z4 3.0i (6-Speed SMG): 155

Maybe I'm missing something, however, it would seem to me that the 3-Series should have been granted the higher top end as well. Not that we would typically use it over here, but I sure would have loved it if my ED E39 5-Series had a higher limiter than the 128 that the lesser E39s had in common with the E46s.

Best Regards,
Shipo

eman6628

Not sure if it is the same as the U.S. spec performance package, the Canadian 'M' sport package has the level II suspension, 18" wheels, low profile performance tires, sport seats, a rear spoiler and different interior trim.

brave1heart

The top speed issue is largely academic in the U.S. No 3-series (M including) can reach its top speed on any of the 4 tracks that I've driven (WGI, LRP, M-T and NHIS). Other than driving in Death Valley or something, you won't be able to hit top speed without serious risks to your life and license. Try the Shark Injector - for $350, you get a few REAL ponies, a raised rev limiter, removed top speed governor, better throttle response, etc.

Wondering if the Z4 5-spd manual's 5-th gear is direct. My 325i is good for ~ 145 mph (I've heard) with a direct 5-th gear.

shipo

While the gearing of the Z4 2.5i is not as readily available (ie. not front and center on the BMWUSA site) as the rest of the BMW lineup, I believe that I read somewhere that it had the same gearing as your 325i. I'll dig around and see what I can come up with. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

3-Series (All versions): 128

The ZHP package has the limiter bumped to 155. That's straight from the bimmer site.

shipo

Hmmm, interesting, the BMWUSA site under "Technical Data" says 128, however, the little blurb about the Performance Package says "..., higher top speed, ...", and then finally in the 3-Series Brochure it indicates 155 for the top speed for the ZHP. I wonder why they make you dig for that specific stat.

So, 155 it is for the ZHP. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

was designed by BMW's M division - hence the 155 mph limiter. The ZHP is an M in disguise. It is certainly capable of holding its own against a stock E36 M3 on the track.

muzzy325i

I have noticed that in my new 330i w/SMG, if I have in auto non-sport mode and I'm not accelerating quickly that it will not downshift until about 2200RPM, no matter what the gear except 2 -> 1, where it will downshift if I come to a stop. It will upshift around 4300-4500RPM. I only have about 600 miles on the car and only about 40 of the miles have been driven in auto mode. Once I get past the break in, I drive it harder and take note of the shift points.

brave1heart

I'm off to a good start at the autoX -

http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/results/2004/autocross.asp?event=1&a- mp;a- mp;class=*&headings=yes&firstlast=yes&model=yes&b- - est=yes&average=yes&points=yes

You should come and check out the event some time - it's probably < 1 hr from where you live. next one is this Saturday.

wjc12345

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

After seeing the messages on this board (and talking to others), I'm going to cancel the extended warranty. Then, I'll assess everything again when the 4 year BMW protection ends, and do a little shopping around for a 3 yr deal.

And, yes Kydfx - my monthly payments will go back down to the original amount of the loan on the car (I never cut a check for this, just borrowed the extra $$ from lein holder)

blueguydotcom

was designed by BMW's M division - hence the 155 mph limiter. The ZHP is an M in disguise. It is certainly capable of holding its own against a stock E36 M3 on the track.


Yeah but against an e46 M3 the ZHP gets slapped around like a red-headed stepchild. Fwap, fwap.

riez

Those top speeds in excess of 130 mph can only be achieved with cars that have high speed tires (e.g., W, Y, ZR, etc.). The car has to conform to the tires. H-rated is 130 mph. So if riding on H-rated or less, there has to be an electronic limiter at or under 130 mph.

Wondering if most of those higher speeds are coming only with Sport Pkg that provides the better tires? Or are all these cars coming with W, Y, ZR, etc. tires, even all-seasons?