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BrianV, yes, rear disks do look nicer.
Here's a couple of more teasers on the 2004:
- Front and rear A/C... standard on the LX and ES
- Multi-reflector Projector-type headlights, ES
- Razor Blue ext color, avail in beige or gray interior.
- Motivation will be provided by the 3.0L 200HP V6 and 5speed Auto.
- No AWD.
For 2003 ES, the Power sliders were $800 option, 6-CD was a $450 option and the fog lights were a $250 option !!
So, on the 2004 ES you would get $1300 worth of (2003) options for $100 ??!!
People want awd for the image, and it looks like the manufacturers are starting to move away from pure SUV's, so they're trying mini-vans as part of the "cross-over" segment. The reality is, SUV's aren't all they're cracked up to be, and enough people have figured that out to shift the market some.
The most significant differences between your typical SUV and a comparably-sized mini-van are off-road ability and tow capacity. Of course, you trade ride quality and in most cases gas mileage for those, but I think you follow my point here.
I'm with you. If you don't need the tow-capacity and are honest with yourself about going off-road (especially off-trail, which is even rarer), then a mini-van makes more sense, rationally speaking, than a SUV for a lot of people. Trouble is, most people are very sensitive to image.
Of course, awd/4wd is useful for more things than just off-roading, depending on the system. Those of us that live in the snow belt and/or the mountains would love to have an awd mini-van, because it best fits our (real) needs.
Particularly a nimble one, whose awd is laid out for performance/handling ! I'd love to have an MPV with an Audi-style awd system (but a Subaru-style system would do nicely, too )
-brianV
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/images/vehicles/img_veh_ezbuilder- .gif
It looks like a little slice of the re-styled front end. Also there's an Acrobat download for '04 pricing.
I'll mention the highway (I-80) between here (Cheyenne, WY) and our destination (Fairfield) was rarely flat and straight, which hugely effected our fuel economy. The speed limit of 75 MPH doesn't help either. Having the cruise set at 80 MPH, the worst mileage we got was 21.9, and the best was 24.5. I could see this van getting 27-28 MPG on straight, flat highways traveling at a lower speed.
The next thing I noticed is this Duratec 3.0 is a rev happy engine. The least little bit of upgrade would cause it to kick down into 4th gear. Heaven forbid I would've been towing anything! I don't mind revvy engines, but I prefer torque over HP. I'd like to see Mazda (or Ford) develop a new engine for the MPV that makes more torque, at least 250 ft. lbs., preferably 300. This would allow the van to pull up those inclines without constantly having to downshift. We plan on getting a car top carrier, and we also have a small utility trailer we will be towing when we move. That should be interesting.
The comfort of the van during the trip was outstanding. The front and rear air worked great. The kids really enjoyed the DVD player, although we found out it's very picky about the condition of the DVD's. If there is so much as a single smudge mark or finger print on the playing side of a DVD, it won't play properly. The van could stand to be a bit less suseptable to wind noise, but it's liveable. Also, the driver's seat is a bit too firm. I think the seat in our recently returned leased Intrepid was a little more comfortable. Other than that, this was by far the best vehicle we've owned for taking long trips.
2004 Pricing Sheet
26 miles so far. Can't say I love it (after all, it is a minivan), but if it's reliable it looks like it'll be pretty much perfect for our needs.
Steve.
Dinu
It's only a matter of time before one is caught on film, or card.
About $1200 more on the LX Plus compared to the '03 LX, but with rear A/C ($595 on the '03 LX). But not with rear heat, that's extra. Does Mazda realize that winters in most of the U.S. and Canada get pretty cold?
The biggest ripoff IMO is $910 for the LX Plus, which adds features most everyone will want: privacy glass, bodyside moldings, mats, and fog lights. Notice also that every LX package has LX Plus as a pre-requisite. So for all intents and purposes they increased the price of the LX by $1200.
Also, did you notice that they are charging $200 extra for "pearl" paint colors in '04?
Meanwhile, '03 LXes are going locally for under $19k. If my lease didn't have several months to go, I'd get a '03 now rather than waiting for the '04s. The changes to the '04s aren't that compelling to me. And I like the looks of the '03 just fine.
When I brougth MPV home, my wife gave me fits and put in dog house, until I had to drive her, our two kids, and her parents for a 80 miles trip to the beach. Since that she warmed up to it and admitted that it was not a bad choice and very good deal after all.
Steve, Host
mazda guy
I know that sales volume of MPVs are lower than those of other minivans, so it might be a bit skewed, however consumers who drive that car every day would probably have better insight than pros who just test the car for few days. Also consumers can capture day to day usability as pros might take points up or down for features not really necessary or vital to daily use.
I also got my first close-up look at a '04 Quest today. It doesn't look as bad up close than in pictures, especially in tan with a tan interior. But something about the interior screamed "cheap" at me, the near-horizontal instrument cluster was artistic but not easy to read, the back seats were rock-hard and not very adjustable, and in general I was wondering whether I'd want to pay $28k for a van with a cloth interior and only one power slider.
However, I really like the current model and am not that interested in the 2004. I'm thinking that once the 2004s arrive, the 2003s left on the lots will get some kind of discount. Now, I went on carsdirect and saw that I could get a well-optioned MPV for approx. $21500 through carsdirect which is about $2-3k lower than MSRP. Wondering how much deeper a discount would go once the 2004s arrive on the lot. My guess is not that much, so I may as well buy now and take advantage of the 0% but I could be wrong.
I would love some insight from you all.
I expect to have a 30 day window of no minivans in stock....I am not expecting 2004 to show up until the end of october at the earliest, assuming no glitches....
Dinu
Also, last Saturday we went down the the Mazda dealer and looked at the MPVs to determine how big they are. We haven't looked at lots of other minivans, but how does the size compare to other minis? I've read the many professional reviews bagging on the smallness of the MPV, but for practical purposes is it really that much smaller? I'd like to hear from current owners. Our third child is on the way and we foresee us having 4-5 children. Will the MPV handle this? Would one of the bigger minis be any better?
The other thing is that we weren't too impressed with the rear seat of the MPV. My wife and I are both short people and even for us the seating position back there seemed unnatural. Have you found the rear seats to be uncomfortable on longer trips?
Mike
Thank you.
(1/3-2/3) so you could sit one kid back there but still have the remaining space left over for cargo. I know there are a few changes coming for 2004....haven't heard if a split rear seat is one of them, but it's something Mazda needs to address.
Our theme for forget tonight's member-to-member chat is Vans! (I know Java, you just wanted trivia and nothing else.... maybe Kirstie will have a few questions to toss in).
The chat time is 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Pop in for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!
Here's the link.
Steve, Host
It's great that I'm going into the next model year without "left-overs" but it has hurt our sales with people looking for year end fire sale prices...example, I was offered a price on a 2003 Protege this morning that I would normally accept but I passed on the deal based on inventory availability....I am also seeing quite a few consumers who placed deposits at other dealers who couldnt find the cars...
Do you have any pics of what the 04 MPV will look like? I can't seem to find any info on it...
Dinu
Dinu
gets mileage ratings of 21.5 city/ 28.8 hwy versus the 4100 lb Sienna with 220?240 hp which gets 23 city/35 hwy (these figures all miles per Imperial gallon...i.e. Canadian). Even the Sienna with AWD gets 22/31. There are two things Mazda really needs to do with the MPV...It needs competitive (or even better, given it's weight advantage/horsepower deficiency) fuel economy and a split rear folding seat like the Sienna. The Sienna is too big and bloated for my liking, but the fuel economy advantage is hard to ignore, especially on long trips.
BTW, the split rear seat issue is probably going to be similair to the lack of a power lock switch for the passenger door which took 4 years to correct. Again, Mazda is a little slow.
I guess that the mileage on the MPV is what it is due to the Ford engine, American engines are thirsty suckers (no pun intended). ;-)
I know that each buck counts, but the difference for us, if the mileage would get better as on the Sienna would be less than $200 per year. Put it in the perspective that we blow that amount in one run to Costco, I see it not as significant anymore. ;-) Calculate in the difference between price of the MPV and Sienna, lets say $2000 and you can drive the (worse MPG) MPV for 10 years to get on the price of the (better MPG) Sienna.
Just for fun, following picture actually makes MPV's current MPG pretty darn good. http://www5.plala.or.jp/MPVGALLERY/img20020828161834.jpg
For the rest take a look here. ;-)
http://www5.plala.or.jp/MPVGALLERY/kabegamikore.html
I can see your perspective about the mpg....it's just that you're reminded about the lousier mpg everytime you fill up. I think the problem IS the Ford-designed engine......remember reading a few weeks back that Ford is redesigning their engines because of uncompetitive fuel economy.
Anyway, until someone comes out (in North America)with a 6 seater mini-minivan/sport van (see Honda Stream/Mitsubishi Grandis/Mazda4/VW Touran/Toyota Wish), the MPV is still on our shopping list.
Think about brand recognition and better sales if Mazda would dress-up MPVs like that!
It would almost make minivans cool!
Dinu
'02 MVP ES: std w/ all std 02 ES stuff; no moonroof, spoiler, 6D CD changer, foglights, or DVD (want DVD tho for 6yo daughter).
Had 11,200K miles, paid $20,860 + ttl, warrant (gold pack, extd from 3/50 > 6/100) & gap ins..total = 24331.44 at 4.1%/72mos. pmt = 385.20/mo. 1st pmt not due for 3mos.
Good deal or bad?
forgot to mention..no money down, no trade in either.
actually, Sienna/Ody have Variable Valve Timing (or VVT w/ Intelligence = VVTi or sum other variation)..this, along w/ fact that engine parts probably made from different (maybe lighter, stronger or better metals, etc.) makes for better fuel efficiency = greater fuel economy (however, also more expensive to manufacture and repair, hence > cost of vehicles). MPV makes do without VVT in engine (so do Kia/Hyundai engines), so gas mpg not as good..VVT allows better breathing/operation, which means better fuel/air mixture, which means optimum mpg, more power, torque, etc.
lazyfox,
american engines are thirstier than others cuz design/operation/manufacture of engines aren't as advanced as foreign counterparts... y invest more money to make better engines when millions buy your crap u make 4 cheap? that wouldn't be smart biznis-wise, and despite poor ratings of american vehicles, cheap prices makem sell like flapjacks to most of us debt-riddened, hardworking types with low Fico scores (not us anymore, but fixed that) and ignorance of wheeling'n'dealing...talk about slow to change, America created the car craze (not the car itself..thx Mr. Benz 4 that) a century ago, and is still bhind tech-wise!
pwr liftgate
keyless remote starter
remote window feature (up/down w/ fob 4 hot days!)
passenger-side door lock control
more power (WASHU engine plz..would even settle
for MAZDA6 engine 4 right now)
rvw mirror w/ compass/temperature reading (sorry..
used to it now since buying my camry)
split-folding 3rd row (now standard 4 MV category)
stability control (in absence/instead of AWD 4
now)
optional step bars (makes access easier for small
children/elderly despite currently low step-in
height)
navigation (at least an option..dashboard sure is
big enuff)
REDESIGN THE FRIGGIN' SHIFTER NOW! (also make the shift detents firmer..currently too easy to shift out of gear)
trip computer, mpg reading, tire pressure monitor
panoramic-view interior mirror (a la Windstar/new Sienna..to C who is
telling the truth about who hit whom 1st!)
tracks on bottom of 3rd row seat (so that when its folded in the floor
2nd row seats can be adjusted fore/aft as needed.
power liftgate window (Toyota started it 1st by stealing roll down
side windows..[non-permissible content removed] for tat..'sides, Mazda started with front/side
windows..may as well finish the rest of the windows).
Actually, even "lowly" Hyundais (or some of them) have VVT engines now. Since Hyundai shares engines with Kia, Kia should get it pretty soon too.