Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

isellhondas

I don't disagree with you. I would rather have ABS and side bags than not have them.

I would feel perfectly safe in buying a used car without these features too.

My point was what is a "big deal" to you won't be important to a lot of other people.

I never said "nobody wants them" I just said ABS isn't something some people are willing to pay for. Then, there are some who simply want no part of ABS for a variety of reasons.

triathlonj

I honestly liked the performance and handling of the Mazda 3 more than the Honda. It handles like a sports car, and has great acceleration. The cost of options made the price jump up and up and up... Mazda would not come down on price on these new models either. The nail that finished off Mazda's coffin was the fact that at the end of the year, they advertise 3000, 4000, 5000 dollars and more off all the previous years models. Granted, all cars come down in price after the model year is over, but that's ridiculous. It kills resale value of the used cars.

Next was Toyota, I didn't like the handling of the Corolla in comparison with the Civic. The engine was noisier, the interior had more rattles, and the body styling was not as appealing (in my opinion). The clincher was the arrogant attitude of the Toyota sales person and their retarded marketing strategy. Granted, Toyota has the name right now, but finding a Corolla without any of the B.S. "option packages" where there was alloy wheels and then 10 different "extra mile package" warranties that are conditional on you doing your service at the dealership, is next to impossible. Then to make things worse, Toyota uses a retarded marketing strategy, artificially lowering their MSRP and sales price, only to add it back in with 2 charges, TDA and MAF "Toyota Dealers Association" and "Manufacturers Advertising Fees." Instead of factoring their excessive advertising into the price of their overpriced cars, they try to sneak it in with acronyms when you sign the papers.

Shopping around for the Civic was simplified by the general lack of dealer installed options. The cars come with a few different trim levels, and dealer installed options are generally kept to a minimum (from my experience). In summary, I like Mazda's product, but not their value retention. I'm getting more and more irritated with Toyota as they let success get to their head. Buying a Honda was the best of both worlds. Not bad on depreciation or ride.

moparbad

Civic EX Sedan with auto transmission is advertised every week for $15,300 in Chicago area. Big discounts for Honda compared to the past.

wrjoyce

Hey, I have not seen a 15,300 price for ex in either the nyc or miami area. At that price, it blows away corolla and mazda 3 What does that price exclude (obviously taxes but what about delivery destination etc)

bd21

An 04 Ex sedan w/auto has an invoice of $16,504 and destination is $490, which equals $16,994. There is a $400 additional incentive currently to the dealer, not the customer. Also, the dealer holdback is $495.12. If the dealers wanted to just give the car away and not cover any of his costs like advertising, preping the car, staff, etc., he could give the car away for $16,098.88. Your figure of $15,300 makes absolutely no sense at all! Call this dealer and find out if it is truly a new car and how much will it cost to really buy an Ex from them. You must include every fee they charge (selling price, destination, any processing or prep fees, etc.) to sell you the car except tax and tag to get their actual selling price. I suspect it will be quite a bit more than their advertised $15,300. Please post again with all the final figures.

snarks

In NH at major Honda dealer Civic EX/auto is 15,600 with manual and 15,900 with auto everyday price currently. You can get a 2003 Civic Ex Manual for $14,850 if you can tolerate white.

bd21

Again, call the dealer and get the actual price. The price without the detail in the paper, doesn't really tell the whole story. Post what the real bottom line is, I love to here the actual price.

moparbad

Destination is included, there are no prep fees, there is a $51 doc fee that every dealer charges, and you have to add tax, title and license which you will pay no matter what brand you buy.
I really do not care how much incentive the dealer is receiving from Honda. The dealer is selling new (not used or demo) 2004 Civic EX Sedan, automatic, for $15,300 for at least the last month. I told my neighboor about this deal two weeks ago and last week she purchased one for exactly the price advertised.
I'll post the dealer name if it does not violate Edmunds policy.
$15,300 is the REAL bottom line.

pat

You can post the dealer name, but not the salesperson, nor any contact info (including websites). See our new cool feature "Rules of the Road" at the top of the page.

moparbad

is at Grand Honda in Chicago.

bd21

Please post the dealer's name and I will email them for a price quote. I'll let you know what they tell me is their real bottom line cost. The price I ask for will include all fees except state tax, tittle and tag. Why they would sell a car for over $700 below their cost is a mystery to me. If your numbers check out, maybe I'll buy a few and bring them back to Florida to sell. I got my LX for $14,600 ($500 under basic invoice) and that was the best deal around within 200 miles of me and that was driven by a dealer incentive. Your price is over $1600 under invoice. I'm not saying your making it up, but it's hard to understand the price.

moparbad

Why is $15,300 so amazing of a price for a Civic EX Sedan automatic? 2004 Camry LE with ABS, automatic and cruise is only $16,995 after rebate.
Corolla LE with ABS, automatic and sunroof is only $14,998.
Civic is discounted to be able to compete.

backy

They are obviously planning to make it up on volume. ;-)

bd21

Why is because if $15,300 was indeed an advertised price, the dealer would be losing money on every car sold. No dealer is that stupid. Yes, occasionally they may sell a car at a loss for volume, but not on a long term basis as an advertised price. Toyota had incentives that insured their dealers didn't lose money at the prices you sighted. Honda never had enough incentive to let the dealer make any profit at $15,300. I assuming you don't want me to check your claim, since haven't posted the dealer that sell cars at the price you claim.

imidazol97

if $15,300

Honda never had enough incentive to let the dealer make any profit at $15,300.

They are obviously planning to make it up on volume.
******************
There's probably more hidden incentive to the dealer.

The uncertainty about dealer 'cost' is really the problem here. Incentives that aren't to the public and aren't made public are a devious way of doing business. They make it impossible for the public to 'know' a base price for the dealer's cost.

This obfuscation of the real pricing of a car is very customer hostile. But many Honda buyers accept that they have to pay whatever the dealer charges, willingly.

I prefer the incentive going to the public, not to extra profit margin for the dealer. But then I guess this way Honda can brag that they don't have to use incentives to sell the cars because they're so in demand -- instead they just rip off customers more by giving incentives, hidden or public, to the dealer for extra profit margin where it can be made.

blueiedgod

actually hidden incentives is what kept the Honda resale higher than other manufacturers. People who haggle will get the best possible deal, where the dealer would deduct the hidden incentives from the price of the vehicle. But, since those are hot public knowledge, the resale value is kept high. I have no problem with that. I have a car that is worth more used (on paper) than I paid for it. It took me a while to negotiate a deal, and I had to pit two dealers against each other to get the price.

cartagram

Has Honda ever changed much in the last year of production for a particular generation of the Civic? I'm interested in knowing the odds that they'll change the fabric design from the '03-'04 Jazzy-broken glass design to something different.

Any clues?

moparbad

I posted the dealer name in post #3301. Before you even asked. In your post #3305 you posted that you are assuming that I do not want you to check the price since I did not post the dealer.
Once again, I posted the dealer before you asked the FIRST TIME. Pay attention please.
I posted the pricing to inform. and allow people to obtain better prices, not to antagonize anyone. When I purchased my 2002 Civic Si I paid way, way under invoice. Thanks to the internet.

bd21

Sorry about that. You posted before I asked, so I missed it. I'll let you now what I find out. Again, I'm not saying you can't get a car for way under invoice, but you said it was there advertised price, which means they would sell a lot of them way under cost to everyone. It just doesn't pass the sanity test.

bd21

I called Grand Honda and talked to them for a while. They are very friendly and straight shooters. Here is what they told me. They have never sold 2004 EX Civics w/automatics for $15,300. The best price they have had this year was $15,700 in Jan/Feb when Honda was offering a $1000 incentive to its high volume dealers. That is when I bought mine. The incentive changed on 1 Mar to $400, which is what it is today. He said if someone bought anything for less, it had to be a left over 03. There current price is $16,200 for an 04 Civic EX with auto. They sound like a great dealership with good prices, but like I said, no dealer sells lots of cars under their own cost, unless they are going out of business.

bd21

You lost me snarks. I went to your sight and most of the 2004 EX 4-doors with automatics with no options are $16,303, which is a good price. But this whole discussion came up because moparbad said the advertised price in his area was $15,300. I said that price made no sense, because the dealer would lose money. So far that low price hasn't checked out as valid.

isellhondas

Just don't believe everything you read on the internet!

snarks

Civic 4dr Sdn EX Auto
VIN: 2HGES26734H500477
Stock Number: A540069
Model Number: ES2674MW
 Shoreline mist metallic $15,660.00

There are a few others, there were more when I originally posted.

moparbad

I made an error. My neighboor purchased a 2003 for $15,321 and the advertisement was for 2003 at Grand Honda. New 2003 Civic EX 4-door automatic with alloys for $15,321. The 2004 was an EX 5 speed, 4-door with leather.
Grand is advertising new 2003 EX 2-door automatic with alloys for $14,750 this week.
I can scan the advertisement and email it to anyone for proof.
My apologies to everyone and especially bd21. The dealer is a no bs dealer and since I personnaly knew someone who purchased at the price I posted here. I made an error on the year.

bd21

No big deal, I just had to question that low of a price. Snark's dealer seems to have the best deals right off their internet without having to work for a price. Most of their EXs are sold above cost, but they do list one or two at prices that are truly incredible.

crv16

The NH dealer you must be referring to is http://www.autofair.com. I bought my Civic there 6 months ago. The prices you see on their web site that appear to be below invoice are demo models - they have 2-4k miles on them. They discount demo models $0.15 per mile.

New Civic EX 4dr Automatics sell there for $16,303.

They have a demo Civic EX automatic for $15,954, but it has 2,331 miles on it.

Anyway, I've bought several Hondas from Autofair (including one demo) and have been very pleased with their no-haggle approach.

crv16

And the end of winter gas.

Last fillup worked out to 40.4 mpg! (a 3 or 4 mpg improvement).

2003 Civic EX Sedan 5 spd

moparbad

Wow! 40 mpg What speeds and type of driving do you do?

crv16

I hit 40mpg once last fall, before it turned cold. Now that it's broken in (15k miles), and the gas stations aren't selling winter gas, it's definately getting better mileage.

I drive a 50-50 mix of highway (75-80 mph) and back roads (35-40 mph). Mostly all 5th gear though.

bd21

That explanation makes more sense. Edmunds does a pretty good job of letting you know almost exactly how much the dealer can sell you a car for and still make some money i.e. invoice, holdback, customer, and dealer incentives. When you figure them all up and someone posts they bought a car for less than the dealer paid, it usually signals something isn't quite right. With rare exception when they spell out all of the details, you find out a trade was involved and they were given a low ball figure on the worth of their car, so they actually paid more than a $1000 for their car than they thought they did or they have their figures and information wrong. Also, some don't include destination or dealer processing fees when they post their price. You really have to look at your paperwork to see what you truly paid, excluding state tax, registration and tag of course. I have found that many people really don't know what they paid for their cars. Again, if a dealer is selling cars below invoice more than once in a blue moon, something is very wrong. I definetly am impressed with the prices that autofair sells cars for without a hassle. To bad they are way up there.

bd21

1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. Yes, they saved money on the mirrors. And yes they used to have amber colored tail light. And yes you will have to replace them if you go overseas. I'm military too.

lngtonge18

How strange your windshield doesn't have that band. That must be a way to save money. My families previous 86 and 92 Accords and my friend's 97 Accord had it so its not always been the case with Honda. However, you could have one put on for a measly $10-20, even free if you get the whole car tinted.

blueiedgod

Congratulations on your new car purchase, but I think this is what a test drive is for, to make sure you like the car you are buying. Anyway, it is too late to complain now.

Civic Si has a hatcheted area by the mirror to block the sun not blocked by the visors. If your windshield ever breaks and you need to replace it you will have a choice of shaded and non shaded. I did that on my CR-V. Civic Si has folding mirrors, and Civic Si has stronger brakes than regular Civic (4 wheel Disk with ABS and EBD), although I wish they were stronger. But, Si does not come with Auto, and it seemed like you wanted to have an auto. Since you said you take assignments in other countries, you probably realized by now that they don't have so many cars with auto tranny as we do here. As for the lights, you could go aftermarket route, or simply visit a Honda dealership in the country you are stationed and buy the OEM lights for that country. Besides, the USDM headlights would never pass EU headlight beam pattern if someone were to test it.

wander

HX Gas Mileage

I was curious how bad the gas mileage can get on a HX with CVT with Air Conditioner on? A salesman told me that an HX gets the same gas mileage as the LX and EX with the Air on. I think he had his head somewhere else because I would think a CVT HX (with the air running) would still get better mileage than an LX/EX auto (with the air running). I’m I right or wrong?

Has anybody tried the Civic GX yet?

moparbad

HX is not equipped with AC, is it?

ncampbell2002

A/C is a dealer option on the HX model.

crv16

AC use typically takes 1 or 2 mpg off. I can't see how that would be any different on the HX

wander

That’s what I thought Too bad ABS/EDB isn’t optional on the HX but I’d probably be better off with an EX or LX.

kurtq1

My brother has a 99 Civic LX(67,000 KM) and the emission light keeps coming on. He has had the cellinoid replaced, the computer replaced and the shop just had it for a few days to replace something else. And lo and behold the light came on again. Fortunately he only had to pay for the Cellinoid (Cad300). Do you know if there were any secret waaranties on this problem or what might be causing it. Also his rims are rusting like crazy. has anyone else had this problem? Thanks

blueiedgod

if the "check engine light" error is linked to the emissions, then it is covered by, I think, 8 year/100,000 mile warranty. I don't have the warranty booklet with me, but I am pretty sure the emissions warranty is longer than regular warranty.

celica115

What a bad day? My wife just damaged both front wheels this morning. They must be replaced. I need to know the exact info for the stock wheel such the offset, 15 x ? ... etc. I need to order the wheels today. Thank you very much for your input.

The stock wheel is not cheap so I plan to get the aftermarket's. RAGE Vigor is my first choice right now because they are doing the special. 4 Vigor Wheels + 4 Falken Ziex ZE-512 tires for $560.00. No shipping!

ncampbell2002

Well I have 17X7 Enkei CDR-9's however they should be the same offset/bolt pattern. I looked up the specs on the Enkei wheel and for the 15 inch one you are going for, the size would be 15 x 6.5 with a 40 offset. Bolt pattern for Honda Civic is 4 X 100. When you order them, they should be able to confirm everything with you on what fits and what doesn't.

celica115

I just order a set of TSW Apex + Falken Ziex ZE-512 tires for $461.00. The wheel is 15 x 6.5 with 40mm offset. Thanks for your advice (I called them for the spec). I am gald that I did not order through the internet. The salesman gave me a better deal over the phone. Now I don't know what to do with those stock rear wheels and tires. They are only 4 months old and I don't have a garage.

kurtq1

Thanks Blueiedgod, they charged him to replace the solenoid when he took it in. Should that be covered under the 8 year warranty?

blueiedgod

A good retailer would have a databse with the wheel info for your car. If the place where you are buying wheels does not offer that service, I would say stay away from them. The price may be lower than a reputable retailer like www.tirerack.com but a reputable retailer would stand behind their product after the sale. Chances are that this retailer will stand behind the product as well, but the fact that they did not go out of their way to make it easier for you to chose is an indication of the way business is run.

As for emissions warranty, check the warranty info in the booklet. I am not sure which solenoid was replaced and whether it was related to emissions.

paully

I bought a 2004 silver honda civic in jan./04,shortly after noticed rear bumper not even close in color to the rest of the car.Honda agrees to paint it,say they can match it.Still not even close.In the mean time look at every silver car on the road,other makes/models not bad, every civic rear bumper from 2001 and up (2004 being the worst)not even close.How do these things leave the plant?Even on honda canada website a silver civic clearly shows the difference.Check out the link http://www.honda.ca/HondaEng/Models/CivicSedan/Overview.htm

backy

This is interesting, in that when C/D last reviewed the Civic about 18 months ago, it did not fare well in a comparo and one of the reasons cited was a poor paint job, i.e. mismatched color. I thought maybe it was an exception because the Civics I've owned have had perfect paint jobs. I wonder if this is a problem with Civics from other plants, e.g. Japan?

celica115

I thought only mind has this issus. I never ask other owners. My 04 Civic's front and rear bumpers are not matched to the body too. I plan to buy the mask to cover the front.

shrimpbtcpn

can someone let me know what kind of mileage I can expect to get with the civic vp..automatic in city driving, I am hearing all different answers. just got a quote of 13,350 a vp automatic with floor mats and mud gaurds, sound ok?

bd21

I get 29 MPG or better in the city with my 2004 Civic LX 4-door with an automatic. I wouldn't pay that much for a VP when you can get an LX with a lot more features for around $500 more and it will be worth far more down the road. If you really want a VP, you should able to get it under $13,000 easily. Good luck!