Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

paully

Having read a few articles on honda quality slipping,I now can see it is true.I bought a 2004 silver civic in jan.04,after a month realized the rear bumper doesn't match the rest of the car.See for yourself http://www.honda.ca/HondaEng/Models/CivicSedan/Overview.htm doors do not line up,scrathes and buff marks clear coated over.Honda agreed to repaint rear bumper,I figured Honda dealer could match paint,wrong!still doesn't match.They said that's all they are going to do for me,nice!!!!Should have bought a mazda 3.Having looked at hundreds of silver cars of all makes and models i can safely say that honda is the only company that can't get it right,I've seen better paint matching on kia, dodge and hyundai.Love the car but it would be nice to stop hiding it in my garage,it's that obvious.Does anyone have any insight into this,at the end of my rope.I live in Ontario Canada,not that far from the honda plant where the civics are produced.What really scares me is if they are letting things go this obvious what are they letting go that we cant see.
 Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anonymousposts

dlancer

I am in a compact sedan shopping, and consider civic LX auto, corolla LE auto, and nissan sentra 1.8s auto+safety package. I just test drove civic LX because of honda's reputation and the high price of access toyota. I was so disappointed because of the following problems:

1) Engine noise.

well i've heard that compared with corolla/nissan, civic's more sporty and the engine sound is a bit "louder". But I've never imagined it could be that "louder". It is for sure not in the same league with sentra and corolla.

2)Pick-up

I know the horsepower is 115, compared with 127 of sentra and 130 corolla, it is a bit smaller. I'm not a "racer" so that didn't even bother me. But when I had problem to even accelerate the car to be 100km/h to merge into highway, that is a different story...

3)poor quality interior.

I know this is a compact car and I don't expect it like lincoln or lexus. But the full plastic setup, little armrest, toy-like shift stick and handbrake, tiny door handle, poor audio quality... really pushed me down. Compared with sentra 1.8s and corolla CE, it's so low.

I am not trying to whine honda or civic. On the other hand, I'd want to know whether those problems are common or I just tried a bad demo car. (it has 5k milage on it) I can settle with the interior part since that's not my main concern on buying cars anyway.

Thanks for your inputs.

warner

Wow. I test drove the same cars and found that I liked the Civic the best. I do agree that the Toyota has a nice looking interior, but the ergonomics of it didn't fit me well at all. I felt like my arms were stretched out to reach the steering wheel while my legs were cramped up - moving the seat front or back would make one condition better and the other worse, but never a happy medium. I wanted to like the Toyota better because of the lower price and 0% financing available on the 2004 models, but could not convince myself that it was the best car. As far as acceleration, I'm surprised that you had an issue with that when driving the 5 speed. I test drove the automatic and didn't find it terrible for it's intentded use. I bought the 5 speed because I was so disappointed with the automatic transmission in my 2000 Hyundai Elantra that I PROMISED myself not to get another automatic with a 4 cylinder engine - it just didn't choose gears well, and usually started out in 2nd gear from a stop (they designed it this way - unless you floor the darn thing which was very violent and seemed abusive to the car). I have been driving the 5 speed with no acceleration issues whatsoever. I cruise at 80 MPH into work regularly, and feel like I'm not pushing it whatsoever (it's spinning about 3,400 rpm at that speed - with a 7,000 rmp redline, that's not too bad). As far as audio quality, I had an aftermarket stereo (JVC - nothing special, but decent) in my Hyundai and the radio with CD player that came in the Civic standard sounds better than the aftermarket one that I bought for the Hyundai. I listen to music loud and burn my own CD's and don't have any issues with the sound quality or volume...so I don't know what you didn't like about it; but that's a personal choice. Personally, I couldn't be happier about buying the Civic.....if the Toyota fits your body size then that would be a great choice also. I felt the Toyota drove like a bigger, bulkier car without having great forward visibility. I feel like the Honda is more taught and under control. Again, this is a personal preference. I definitely agree with you about liking the Toyota interior better, but I do think that the Honda's is laid out better. I don't think you could go wrong in picking either the Civic or the Corolla......I think the Nissan will not have near the resale value of the Civic or Corolla though...and will probably not be as reliable, either. Good luck and definitely pick the car that YOU like best...you have to live with it after all.

                   Warner

dlancer

Thanks for sharing your experience, warner.

I wanted to like Civic more because it's much cheaper on price, compared with Corolla, and better reputation&resale value than sentra. And yes, it also fits me better than corolla with the leg/arm issue. Maybe, it is just the car I test drove not in good condition. Or it's the auto version problem. I also want to know whether you felt the noise of engine in Civic is bigger than the other two? or just the individual car again.

TIA

warner

Oh, I forgot all about that part...yeah, it IS noisier when you're winding it out. I agree with you! At cruising speed, it's fine, but get up around 4,000 or higher RPM's and it starts making some noise. You are correct. I didn't notice that about the Toyota, but honestly wasn't looking for that, nor did I really push the Toyota too much I don't think.

                 Warner

rutger3

why oh why do mfgs try to save a few dollars by leaving off minor buy practicle items like the power lock switch on the passenger door. This is evident even on the EX model, pleaseeee. What were they thinking?

warner

Well, with 350 miles on my new 2004 Civic LX 5-Speed, I decided to fill up the gas tank, even though there was about 1/4 tank left. I managed to squeeze 10 gallons in! I was impressed! That's 35 miles per gallon. No bad.....

               Warner

nine51

2004 Civic EX coupe, 5 speed.
Since purchase: 4063.3 miles, 107.246 gallons, 37.89 mpg. Worst, 31.34 mpg on second tank full from new. Best, 45.68 mpg with lots of 55 mph driving. I've had 40+ mpg 5 times, with 2 of those on consecutive tanks. My driving style is mildly aggressive, usually 5+ over the speed limit on freeway. Trying to get over that habit by staying at 70, but have to kick it over that sometimes to avoid getting run over. My average daily commute is on freeways at 65 - 70 mph with some 0 - 10 in heavy traffic. Not much city (stop & go, 25 mpg stuff).

Only thing I would change so far is give this car a 6th gear. It is at 3400 RPM at 70 mph. It's little buzzy over 70 and needs a higher geared overdrive. Don't know why they didn't do that, it has the power with 127 hp! Great commuter car, it has some guts and gets great gas mileage.

Haven't seen any of the quality problems posted in other places, and I'm pretty fussy about things like that. This car was US built, with a US build engine and Japan build transmission FWIW.

warner

You turn 3400 RPM's at 70? Mine turns 3300 at 80! I wonder if they put different transmissions in these things? Anyone know? I'm SURE about this because I checked again today on my way into work...at 80mph I was between the 3200 and 3400 marks on my tach....

                   Warner

warner

I just went to pick up my wife from work and double checked. At 70 MPH, my car is spinning at 2900 RPM's. It's a 2004 5-speed LX.

               Warner

blueiedgod

The manual and auto are geared differently. I spin at 4000 RPM at 80, and 3500 at 70. But I have an Si and it has shorter gearing and final drive. The i-VTEC engine has great torque and I don't have to shift as much. I can easily do 40 mph in 5th (2000 rpm) and then sprint to 60-80 mph with out downshifting. But, the short gearing kills gas mileage, I'd be lucky if I get 30 mpg's out of the Si.

dunworth

Thanks for your observations on the Civic and its quality. The car is not as flawless as many people believe but a great little car overall.

That earlier link for the Civic showing the bumper being darker is shadow not poor paint. I like the Civic paint better than our Corolla but both are more delicate than my old GM stuff was. My Civic is Galapagos Green and the bumpers matched perfectly out of the factory (a recent collision repair means on certain days you can detect a slight difference).

I must admit our Corolla ('02) is quieter and softer riding than our '03 Civic and its interior is more solid but I would argue of comparable quality. The Civic's engine is quiet and the car itself is quiet overall, certainly compared with my two Saturn SLs whose engines were quite noisy.

I cannot agree with you about the Sentra which I think is soft and spongy compared with the Civic or Corolla. It is also really cramped in the back and gets worse gas mileage.

Before the the new Mazda3, the only car I considered as good overall as the Civic and Corolla is the Mitsu Lancer which is really, really underrated in its class. IMHO it drives and rides better than the Civic or Corolla and is quiet, roomy and solidly built as well. The engine is nice and torquey despite being similar in horsepower numbers. The mileage penalty is significant however and Mitsu had been in Canada for less than 1 year at the time I was looking for a car.

warner

I appreciate that the auto and manual are geared differently, but the other person also has a 5-speed, and the same model year as mine, which makes me wonder if they didn't use different manual transmissions in our cars?

paully

I posted the link about the rear bumper color match and it's not a shadow.I've got the proof in my driveway.Just last night(may 24th)I stopped in at a honda dealership in burlington ontario to see if the new silver civics coming in are any better,it's the same if not worse.If it were a shadow on my car the service manager at the dealership would not have agreed to repaint it(and still doesn't match).When more 2004's are on the road I think more people will notice.The only color thats not noticeable is black.Believe me I wish it was only a shadow.I love the car I just wish it was all the same the color. Thanks!!!!!

nine51

I can't find any specs for the LX transmission but someone with a Civic LX that is registered on Honda's Ownerlink could probably get the numbers. That's where I found this info about my 2004 EX. They only let you see the specs for your car registered on the site. ??

5 speed gear ratios:
5th gear 0.757
final drive 4.411

Automatic gear ratios:
4th gear (highest) 0.638
final drive 4.357

The automatic EX is geared slightly higher than the 5 speed EX so an automatic will turn lower RPM at highway speeds in top gear. Haven't tried to do the math yet to see how much difference there is. It would be interesting to see the data on the LX.

warner

Here's what I got for my VIN on the ownerlink website:

5-Speed Manual Transmission Gear Ratios
 
  5th: 0.711
  Final Drive: 4.111

            Warner

warner

Here's the numbers for the auto trans on the LX:

4-Speed Automatic Transmission Gear Ratios
 
  4th: 0.674
  Final Drive: 4.067

I find it very interesting that they'd use different transmissions on the LX. Based on that alone, I'm glad that I got an LX instead of an EX. For the $1900 price difference the anti lock brakes, variable intermittent wipers, moonroof, alloy wheels, and 12 HP wasn't worth it. I did like the alloy wheels a lot more than the standard LX covers, so I got a good deal on those from the dealer ($419).

dudleyr

Even the Honda brochure shows different gearing for the LX and EX (manual trannies). The LX engine has a tad more low end torque, and if more geared for economy. The EX is geared a little more for performance.

I prefer the LX gearing by far.

warner

Interesting! For sure I'm happy that I chose the LX then....I'd be upset if I found this out after paying more for the EX.

                 Warner

nine51

Depends on what you need/want. I really wanted ABS. It snows here and the ABS is pretty nice for 4 months/year. Doesn't seem like there is much difference in mpg between the LX and EX, even with the gearing differences.

Hey Honda, a 6 speed would be nice;>

dudleyr

a six speed would be perfect, but Honda tends to keep the top gear the same, and just adds another choice in the middle. The TSX 6 speed turns 2600 rpm at 60 mph even though the 5 speed automatic only turns 2100 rpm at the same speed. In comparison the 5 speed manual Accord only turns about 2300 rpm at 60. Compared to the Accord the TSX is very short geared.

With the speed limit at 75 where I live, and 80 mph highway cruising is the norm, I really want a very tall top gear.

warner

Interesting. Another gear for me would just be another one to skip. The way I drive, I'm usually skipping from 2nd to 4th, or from 3rd to 5th. My LX spins a bit under 2500 RPM's at 60 MPH. I'm in "miser" mode lately, trying to see what kind of mileage I can really get from this thing. I seldomly go above 3,000 RPM's before shifting into the next gear. I do however not have a problem cruising at 80 MPH on my way to or from work, or really anytime I get on the highway (again, this is about 3300 RPM's in 5th) Since I only have about 550 miles on the car, it'll probably be a while before I realize the best gas mileage that it's capable of. Getting 35 MPG on the first 10 gallons was nice, though.

                      Warner

dlancer

Yo, thank you for the reply.

I did, really, absolutely, want to buy a civic LX. Compared with Corolla LE and Sentra 1.8s, Civic has same, if not higher, quality, reputation and resale value, with corolla. I am a fan of Nissan, but I have to admit it is still not in the same place with Toyota/Honda. (Made in Mexico does not improve it. )Due to the the access toyota program in eastern Canada, the price of LE(=MSRP, no discount, from TOyota nor dealer) is 3~4K higher than LX.

I tried another LX again yesterday and ... I got the same feeling as the other one. Low power, noisy engine (silent when idle, but who'd always sit in a car with an idle engine? ), and the stock sound system is... way worse than Sentra's (same 4 speakers). When I tried to accelerate it a bit, it's even noisier than my friend's old taurus. It's far to the CE and 1.8s I test drove. Well the saleman was really nice, and I felt even guilty for not buying a car from him. But... if I have to live with the car for at least 4~5 years, I just can't settle on one with a "truck-like" engine...

Maybe because LXs still use 16 valve, instead of the Vtec like corolla or sentra. I don't know. Si is 127 HP with iVtec, but that's 2K+tax difference, another story.

dudleyr

The Corolla has a little more grunt than the Civic, and slightly better highway mileage. The Civic needs to be reved a little more to get the best performance. Both are plenty peppy with the manual tranny. Civic handles a little better though.

blueiedgod

I think the reason the manuals are geared shorter is for cruise control. And auto can kick down on an uphill to maintain the speed. A very tall 5th or 6th would bog the engine if you are have cruise on as it would not be able to kick down a manual.

Warner: Does LX have cruise control? I was under impression only EX and Si had cruise. Does LX have CD player these days? When I was comparo shopping Civics, only EX and Si had CD player. I ended up getting both (cd and cass) in my 99 Civic. The second time I was shopping Civic, I knew I wanted an Si, because I actually LOVED the way it drove, and the incentives made it irresistable.

anonymousposts

The LX does have cruise as standard equipment.

martinrh

where do you put your loose change in your honda ex? i just got a 2004 ex and have no idea where to put my change. it is too difficult to get out of the little mini glove box under the cd player. it is akward to have it floating around in the giant arm console. i have too much of it to put in the little open tray (plus, people walking by could see that and be even more likely to steal). does anyone sell change holders that fit and look nice??? thank you!+-

gregoryc1

I put my toll change in Zip Lock plastic bags. When I park the vehicle, I can put them out of sight under one of the front seats.

blueiedgod

I am pretty sure the EX has a coin box, the 99 had a flip up coin box on the left side under the steering wheel. My current 02 Si has a coin box, but it is open kind. I highly doubt that Honda removed the coin box from the current model. Look it up in the manual, or look under the dash on the left side, somewhere above the fuze box.

warner

My LX came standard with cruise control and a CD player. I have tried it just to make sure it worked, but it will probably not be part of my "normal usage" items. (although I'm taking a short road trip tomorrow, and if the traffic isn't terrible, I may use it). OH, and I filled up for the 2nd time since buying the car and with 362 miles on the trip meter, I squeezed only 9 gallons into it! That's 40mpg now, and that's combined driving, NOT all highway miles. I'm very impressed now!

warner

Wow, it's completely different pricing in Canada then. I could have gotten a comporably equipped Corolla (WITH anti-lock brakes, no less!) for less money than my Civic, AND I could have gotten 0% financing on the Toyota as well. So I REALLY wanted to like the Toyota better. The seating ergonomics killed it for me. During my test drives of the cars, I didn't really notice that either was especially noisy, but wasn't really paying attention to that either in all fairness. I will agree with you that when you wind out the Civic motor, it DOES make some noise. Since I have the 5 speed, I can pretty much determine how much noise it makes, though. Like I said in an earlier post, I rarely go past 3,000 RPM's before shifting, unless I'm in 5th on the highway cruising, where you don't notice any real engine noise to speak of. I've been pleased with my choice so far. The Toyota was a great 2nd choice, but I just couldn't get the seat into a comfortable position for driving.

martinrh

you nailed it! just went down to the parking garage after reading your post and, voila!, there it was on the beneath the steering wheel on the left side. honda's awesome, eh?

204meca

YIKES, so many Honda discussions -- I was not sure the best place to post this.

 I am considering buying a 93 Civic VX with 95,000 for a teenage boy. I actually owned a 92 VX & had 62K on it with no troubles. But I am wondering if the the VX model or engine had any long term issues.

blueiedgod

The VX was a predecesor to the current HX, where Honda introduced the lean burning VTEC-E. The hatchback body is the hottest thing in the street racing. I see your son transplanting either an Integra or Prelude engine into it later on, because the VTEC-E engine is not going to give him the power he is going to be wanting. I am nor aware of long term issues with the VTEC-E engines, but someone who owned one may be able to shed some light.

204meca

I am well aware of the reputation civic hatches have with the "Rice Boys"! This young man (family friend, not son) is starting community college & has an eye toward operating costs rather than image, so I believe the car will stay stock.

pat

Rice terms applied to vehicles originate from an offensive ethnic slur. I know that none of us mean to imply anything offensive these days, but because of the origin the Town Hall requests that those terms not be used.

"Boy racer" is a term that seems to convey the meaning without running the risk of being offensive.

Anyone who has questions or comments about this policy is free to email me, but the issue cannot be discussed here.

Thanks for your understanding.

bennie

i recently purchased an 2004 civic ex. and right around the door handle i'm noticing ripples appearing. it's not a door ding, because the other side is beggining to do it also. is it because the doors are so heavy and the car so air-tight??? also, does anyone else get rattles here-and-there in their car. 1st new car. maybe i'm freaking-out.

dunworth

I got a few little rattles including one in the dash when I bought my Civic and one piece of trim on the drivers side. All were remedied by my dealer.

Most small cars (I have owned Toyotas, Saturns, and Hyundais)exhibit some creaks over uneven roads/bumps, especially when you first start up the cars and there has been a change in humidity or temperature. It is pronounced in the winter up here but he car is quite once warmed up.

bennie

thank you very much. i'm sure it is alot to do with the fact we're talking about smaller cars.
here's alittle something, i did take it to the dealer and they put in a new back-dash deck lid and it still makes noise.
so i'm thinking that it's bad california roads, or the bar that releases the rear seats.
  again, thank you for your message.

tom

Sharing with my experience on my 04' Civic LX. For the gurguling, I believed it is the coolant did not fill every places inside the chamber. I had this noise before, and notice it was gone after the 1st week. Check the coolant tank, and about a gallon of coolant was fill back to the chamber and need to add extra. It is not leaking after double check.
Gas milage is very good, I can drive to 30 at medium city traffic; and 40 at highway using regular Mobil, even break-in period. Recommend to gentle press the gas during break-in.
Acceleration is improved a little bit after the first oil change. But, it still has room to improve, still weak. But ok for me since it is family car.
I love the dash board, esp. very cool at night and roomy inside.
Compare with Corolla forum, I believed Civic is better.

mcap56

Does anyone know what is going to be new with the 2005 civic? Any hope for better seats? Telescopic steering???

-Marc

l_simpson

I have a 1996 Civic LX with 140,000+ miles. It was a great car, but thanks to some not so great insurance coverage and an unfortunate accident in 1999 it now has blown airbags. It did pass inspection, but since we've moved, it won't pass in New Jersey. It has Jersey plates, but no inspection sticker. Now the radiator is leaking and that was the last straw. Got a new car over the weekend. Question is: should I try to sell the car online (e-Bay, etc.), through classified ads, to a junk yard or just donate the sucker and get it over with?

Realistically what is the car worth? The blue book in "rough" condition is $1,000 to $2,000, but with the blown airbags I'm not sure if that applies to this car.

blueiedgod

Air bags for 1996 go for about $100 for both drivers and passenger at a junk yard. A radiator, brand new form Honda is $200-$250, an sftermarket or refurb would be even chaper. Neither is difficult to install for a DIYer. Once fixed the car will most likely pass the inspection and may fetch more money than a $1000.

warner

I think it would fetch over $1,000 in the condition it's in NOW. I would recommend running an ad locally. I sold my car via cars.com and did get responses. (I had mine priced to sell and the first people that came out to look at it bought it.) For reference, the same car that my Honda dealer offered me $2,000 in trade, and CarMax offered me $2,800 to buy outright was sold for $3,650 via the cars.com ad. Something to think about....

                  Warner

mthexuma

I bought a 2004 Honda Civic EX four door automatic today for $15,994 plus tax. Excellent deal since it is $2000 off TMV price here at edmunds. I went to the the second largest dealer in the US though. It is wonderful, I can't wait to pick it up wednesday.

mthexuma

Oops, my error, $1000 of edmunds TMV price, $2000 off MSRP.

anonymousposts

I've got my eye on a 04 EX 5-speed but first I have to convince my husband trading our 04 Accord is a good idea.

mthexuma

It might be a good trade, depends what you like, I am 18 and hate big cars. That is why I choose the civic over the accord. Smaller and more fun. Less of a family sedan.

blueiedgod

I've got my eye on a 04 EX 5-speed but first I have to convince my husband trading our 04 Accord is a good idea.

Have you checked out the TSX? I think it is a better Accord than the USDM Accord. I think I may have outgrown the Si.

Trading in a 2004 Accord might hurt in the pocket book, hurt big time.