Oldsmobile Intrigue

redline65

How about that turbo Cavalier?

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/48020/page008.html

one2one

Nah, I'm too old for that look (ok, so 32 isn't really old... unless, of course, you ask a teenager).

Now that Aztek SRV is my kind of machine.

NOT!!!

But it does look better :-)

evandro

Zarella is out and Lutz stepped up! There's hope for GM! :^)

fgriff1

I had the same thing on my 2000, the caps can be loosened but not removed. Well on the 2000 and up, you must loosen all 5 caps and then the center disk comes off with all 5 caps attached. Guess this stops the lost caps

lmacmil

Thanks for that info on the lug nut caps. I suppose I would have figured that out eventually, probably after breaking something ;-)

oldsman01

The "LOC" means the theftlock feature has been enabled. Someone has put a code in the radio and anytime the battery positive voltage is disrupted, the code must be entered before the radio can be operated. I'm still at work now, but when I get home later this evening, I'll look in the service manual and give you the instructions on how to unlock it. It may have to involve the dealer(as they have to call with their id#) but it should give you some direction you can give them. They should not charge you to do this as I cannot imagine it taking them more than 10 minutes.

axr6

Thanks for the info on the radio lock feature. I did read the service manual and it does require a dealer. I can get the scrambled code but, I do not have the authorization that is required to get it unscrambled.

This radio lock must be a big problem as the service Manager indicated last night that they do a LOT of this unlock procedures at $100 per. It was just strange that even after unlocking the radio the code was still in it, and it locked immediately upon removing the power. So, as of now, I have two cars with locked radios. I agree with you that it should be a 10 minute procedure but, what do you do if they will only do it for an hour min. Not that you can go to next door...

oldsman01

I take it you have the service manual also. Pretty informative isn't it. Do you have another GM dealer that could call Delco electronics and give them the scrambled code? BTW, did you ever notice a flashing theftlock indicator on yours? I read in the manual that one will flash when a code is set, but I don't see where the radio has a place for a flashing light unless it is in the vf display.

oscarz2

I read that part of the PCS is upgraded power steering. Anyone know if you can get the power steering upgraded without PCS? My steering is too "non-assist" and think any upgrade for it would be a plus.

one2one

I may be wrong on this, but I thought someone here posted that the dealer can "tighten" the steering on MagnaSteer. They may protest but I believe it can be done but you will probably have to let them know you know they can do it.

winter9

My dealer put in my order yesterday on an 02 Intrigue GL in sterling w/ wing, PCS, leather and heater. I hope to get it well before the GMAC free financing ends Jan 2. Dindak thanks for your encouragement to put in the order to get what I want.
I asked him about the supplier price ($375 over invoice) and he ran some new numbers and came back $170 over. I'm happy with that. Price is $24,759 before taking off $1500 for loyalty rebate and $3355 in GM card earnings.
We'll soon have 2 Intrigues in the garage. 2 more weeks and the '99 will be paid off (have a 3 year GMAC 0.99% loan).

dindak

Great news on the order. Should be a sweet ride with the PCS and leather. I am most jealous. I bought mine just a few months before they had a free PCS upgrade. Just my luck. Let us know when you get it.

3 1/2 years and my Intrigue will be all mine also. Still seems so far away for some reason. ;-)

winter9

With the PCS package you get the Magnasteer II system. Without PCS you get Magnasteer. This is not well documented in the literature. I checked Delco's web site, not a lot of detail given on the differences. Seems the II is the latest generation of the system with improved performance. I do not know if this is a simple bolt on swap out for the older system but I would guess that it is.

focus

winter9 on your new purchase. winter won't be as cold now with the new heated seats.
dindak was right about the wing, it sure helps backing up.

ketch

In the car, exiting work, heard Lutz replaced Zarella, let out a "ya hoo" right there. Too late for Olds, but perhaps soon enough to fix the General. For the Zman i say I am gald to see you depart quietly into the dark and back to you contact lens roots, as you obviously were myopic during your rein at GM. As Art Spinella said to the press "good riddence"!

axr6

No, I do not yet have the service manual. I got the info on the scrambled codes from a PC based repair program that my Brother In Law has at his foreign car service shop.

I never noticed any flashing theft indicator light.

We will take the '99 car back to the dealer Friday and I will do my best to make him feel really guilty for not knowing what he was talking about and eventually leaving the lock code in the radio thus, making us take the car back one more time. Maybe then, he will give me a deal on removing the darn code from my own 2000 car.

BTW. Today I ordered an other crank sensor from gmpartsdirect.com. I figured that it will serve me well to have a spare one, having 3 Intriques in my close family, friendship circles. Funny, this is the first time I ever purchased a spare for a road car, ahead of any actual problem. From what I see, I will most likely use it.

oscarz2

AC DELCO replied to my online inquiry:

"In regards to your inquiry, the difference between the Magnasteer and Magnasteer II is the Magnasteer II will have a steering angle sensor in it. This helps compute the level of assistance the driver needs between power and manual steering. They are two completely different systems and are not interchangeable."

focus

Cheers to the General who promote someone on what he knows rather than who he know. On the other hand, when you are out performed by even a korean car (C&D, 8 cars comparison), it is time for desperate action.

dindak

Be interesting to look at those cars in the C&D magazine 5 years from now and see what they look like and how they are running. Most of the older korean cars I see around are either falling apart or rusting all over.

Still, I agree.. GM needs to put some heavy coin into the midsize cars now.

oldsman01

The Hyundai XG350 is a decent looking car and does offer alot for the price, but I too still question the long term durability. Also, with a 3.5 liter V6, shouldn't it be more powerful? And people criticize the Intrigue's 3.5 for only making 215 hp. I still think the Intrigue should have been included in the comparison. Heck, the Accord is being redesigned next year so technically it is a "lame duck" too. Although, unfortunately the nameplate will return. Sorry, I guess my Intrigue bias is showing. But seriously, I do think the Intrigue would have scored better than the Regal and maybe a slot or two higher than the Impala. That Intrepid should have been last. 10 seconds 0-60 for a 200 hp V6 powered sedan is unacceptable in 2001.

jgriff

A 5-year-old lame duck was able to run with the best of them, even an LX with plastic wheel covers won. Don't know why C&D did not test an EX V-6 (still under 26k); the margin would have been even bigger.

GM (2) & Ford at the bottom of the list. Looks like Hyundai has been doing their homework; watch out Big-3 market share is shrinking.

Can't imagine what the smack down will be like next year when Honda releases their new Accord.

dindak

Honda rules buddy!!!

b4z

Didn't you have a choice to buy a accord too but bought an intrigue instead?
The intrigue may only be rated at 215 hp, but it is a BIG 215hp. When i was test driving cars i drove the accord and the intrigue within a couple of hours of each other. The intrigue was noticeably faster off the line than the accord.
the accord cornered with lots of roll, and had a tighter interior and was more expensive.

In regards to the impala. It is the only car in the test that my tall family of four and all our luggage could take on a trip. I guess the importance of actually using the car as it was intended was lost on C&D.

lmacmil

You gotta remember that C&D is an enthusiast's magazine so their reviews are from a different perspective than Consumer Reports. I think C&D assumes that everyone will be racing thru the canyons at some point so they place a lot of emphasis on handling, acceleration, etc. The only racing most of us do is trying to get to work or the airport on time. For 80% of the driving population, I think CR reviews are more meaningful than C&D reviews.

merckx

I saw an Intrigue at my town's auto show last weekend. As much as I like Intrigues(I think it is the best US car GM makes),this one really took my breath away-I thought it one of the handsomest sedans there. It was painted a really sharp teal-isn't that a new color for 2002? It really did look beautiful.
C&D does seem to insist their test cars have lots of commercial appeal-that explains the Regal(a car I've never given 10 seconds of thought to)over the Intrigue.But I think the Intrigue is unique for GM. It seems to have a sort of European flintiness to it-none of that GM sogginess,or the opposite-a Camareoish buckboard ride.
As far as the Koreans,sure the XG 350 is still a nightmare inside. But the new Elantra-I thought it the revelation of the show. Very attractive styling,but also an amazingly tight feel to the interior. It makes sense that anyone in the cellar is going to work doubly hard to get out,and I think Hyundai has done so. The average consumer still looks askance at their cars,but it isn't 1989 anymore. They make a temptying product.

focus

They said the same thing about japanese car back in the 70's that they won't last; i drove a first generation hyundai for three years, rough but works (paid $500). the new hyundai plant is supposed to be ultra modern. Watch out, General.

dindak

No doubt Hyundia and other Korean companies are getting much better, but I would still avoid them right now. Bad depreciation (worse than the Intrigue), below average reliability, mimic styling and cheap car stigma are all the reasons I need. Some of those cars attractive values, but I'll let someone else drive them.

jgriff

Hyundia depreciation can't be any worst than an Olds, and they are thousands less to begin with.

Have you seen an Elantra GT, and what you get for a mere 16k (comes one-way loaded). I'd buy one before a GM Sunbird or Cavalier.

With their warranty package, they are putting their money where their mouth is. Besides NOT a lot of people keep their cars for 10 plus years.

one2one

that the Korean makes (Hyundai in particular) morph different existing styles into one car, at least they are making them attractive. The General makes excellent powertrains. In fact, on the technological side, GM is one of the big boys. But styling... let's just say I hope Lutz and Nesbit can turn things around.

I've seen the new Sonata. I must say that it looks very...uh... Jaguar-ish in the front. But attractive no less. Kia Optima is a handsome machine as well. I would be horrified to think something like the Aztek or Saturn L series would come from those two divisions.

Maybe GM needs to "steal" some of their design staff.

b4z

....which is basically how i drove my intrigue. Racing anything that challenged me and shifting the car manually into 2nd gear when i was on twisty roads. Try it sometimes it is fun. You will look at your intrigue differently.

ab348

One of the best lines I heard anywhere about Zarella's departure was on one of these Edmunds boards where someone suggested that now that the Z-man is at B&L that he get Wayne Cherry a pair of glasses, since Mr. C. obviously has some vision problems given the quality of recent GM designs... Sad but true comment though. You know you're in rough shape when Hyundai has better styling than the General.

I dunno if I would buy a Hyundai but their cars make a decent first impression and seem to deliver good value. I have noticed that their styling is awfully derivative though, and doesn't wear well. I thought the XG300 was pretty good when I first saw it, but when I see one now it looks kind of cliche-ed.

This just gets me teed off at GM all over again for dumping Olds... C&D is testing Regals and hating them, dumping on Impalas (unfairly, it seems to me, since they don't criticize the Accord's cheesy gray plastic wheel covers but dump on the Chevy for mold lines in the plastic interior pieces), placing Hyundais in the contender class ahead of the GM offerings, and liking 4-banger Accords, for pete's sake... meanwhile the best sedan GM makes isn't tested because they are killing it off. Growl...

As for C&D: no surprise. They have worshipped at the shrine of Honda for years. To pick a 4-cylinder, plastic-wheeled, gray mouse-fur-upholstered Accord over virtually anything else in that group just says that they are not a reliable indicator of anything. Not that they ever were, truthfully... I have always complained that C&D falls in love with the latest and greatest everything, only to drop it like a hot potato the next year when something else new appears. I bought a VW GTI on their recomendation in 1990 and it was a good car, but about a year or so later they retested the same group and they dumped all over it. Must have discovered in the interim that it wasn't made by Honda. The only surprise to me is that they didn't place the new Camry first because it is new, even in spite of it's tall, narrow, unattractive styling.

Needless to say, I no longer subscribe to nor buy their magazine. 5 minutes of skimming at the newsstand is all I can stand these days.

teo

Amen Ab348!

evandro

CR warned consumers a while ago about Hyundai's 10-year powertrain warranty. Firstly, unlike most others manufacturers' warranties, there were quite many exceptions. Lastly, and this is the worst, you have to sign a waiver yielding your rights to sue them over warranty issues by agreeing to a company of their choice for arbitration...

At least VW, with its dropped 10-year powertrain warranty, didn't go as far as demanding you to give up your rights when buying its cars. But the exception list pretty much narrowed the powertrain to the engine block and tranny case...

It's too soon for people to start making noise about Hyundai's rip-off warranty. But it's just a matter of a couple more years...

dindak

Hyundia rules!!

dindak

I agree with most of what you say, though I don't mind reading the magazine as much as you do. CR bugs me more than C&D.

evandro

I've been through a quandary about car magazines. I've subscribed to C&D for many months before canceling it because I just couldn't stand anymore their shiite attitude. At one time they worship some brands gratuitiously and despise everything else, just to recycle the idol brand a few months later for one from the despised brands group.

I changed to R&T and didn't find the same idolatry, only a different one. I do like to know about automotive technology and about cars of every caliber, from economy to exotics, but R&T ignores 75% of the market. Perhaps the fraction of the market where are the cars I consider buying. Not to mention the bias against those that don't have many advertisement pages in it: like comparing the Altima 3.5 with the Mustang GT. 8^O

Recently, I tried Automobile Magazine, but it lacks performance tests and mention mechanical details only in passing. But to its favor, it dares criticizing some models it tests, something that the other magazines reserve only to American models.

During the period in which I subscribed to those magazines, I subscribed to CR too. CR is the most objective of them all, although its criteria are quite different from mine. For they test cars as means of transportation, period.

I feel orphaned by car magazine editors. I want to know about exotic cars in detail, but also about every day cars, about automotive technology and styling. Is there such a car magazine? What do you read?

teo

Try Autoweek, a different kind of magazine.

evandro

Oh, I forgot to say that I tried AutoWeek too. Yes, broader sampling of the market, but too shallow tests, like Automobile Magazine's. Or were 4 issues too few?

one2one

Remember when Ford came out with that deformed jellybean they called the Taurus with the oval-everything design? CD said that it was wonderful--especially the radio. Then they "dogged" it a few years later complaining that the design made it too difficult to operate while driving. Didn't they try that before writing their review? But it just proves what you said.

I have a REALLY hard time believing a 4-cyl Accord, outperformed an Impala. I didn't read the review, but when it comes to performance, of the 3 cars we've talked about (Regal LS, Impala, & Accord) I can't see how an Accord could have beat out an Impala except on maybe fit and finish. While it's not my first or second choice in vehicles, from a performance standpoint, it's the best family sedan this side of Grand Prix and Intrigue.

I must not have renewed my subscription 'cause I haven't seen it yet.

ketch

My brother (25 yrs at VWoA incl. top mgmt., President/CEO of Sterling Cars, then CEO of Sandy Corp that consults to the auto/cycle biz-esp. HarleyD) says....

"Great news for GM indeed. Zarrella is the guy that told me several years ago that Harley Davidson had "lost its way" and failed to realize
it's primary job "is to make motorcycles". I informed him that one third of their profits come from accessories and clothing! What a jerk! "

"Lutz, who I have met and chatted with, is a great car guy, indeed! "

teo

The Car & Drive sedan comparo is pure and simple a joke!!!. (A Honda Accord commercial if you will)

BTW, the tested Honda Accord was an EX V6 model with alloy wheels, not an LX 4 banger with plastic wheels.

Still an "Ancient" Accord beating up even the much superior 3.5 Altima, Impala, Regal even Camry is just laughable, to say the least.

They conveniently omit to mention the Supercharged Regal GS and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and the Intrigue, which all can easily spank the tinned can Honda Accord, whose V6 engine is not all that in real life..

Read between the lines of the article...mucho babbling and zero facts..a double talker's delight!

The article is available at their website:

www.caranddriver.com

My sister just bought last month a brand spanking new 2001 Impala Base sedan with the 3.4L 180HP V6 engine. She also owns a 1999 Honda Accord LX (Yes 4 banger with plastic wheels). When driving the new Impala back to back with the Accord LX, she says that there is no comparison....She says that going from the Impala to the Accord, is like switching between a Harley and a scooter...you get the idea. Needless to say, the Accord stays parked in front of the house (Almost forgotten) while she drives the new Impala.

After having owned a total of 6 plastic wheeled, Singer sewing machine engined Accords and then driving a large GM sedan we ask ourselves...what the heck we were thinking????

'Nuff said!

ab348

The C&D Accord was a V-6, not a 4 (my mistake -- that's what I get for stealing reads at magazine shops!), but it had plastic wheel covers, not alloys. I believe it was an LX if that makes any sense. The article even compliments the plastic disks by saying (paraphrasing) "...virtuous, nothing unnecessary here." Geez Louise!!! They deserve to get blasted in the letters section for this one.

I subscribe to no car mags any more after doing so for decades. I had Motor Trend, R&T and C&D subscriptions when I was in high school in the early 70s. Kept C&D and R&T through the 80s. Added Automobile with their very first issue and kept that until the mid-90s, when I dropped them all. C&D and R&T for exactly the reasons stated above by evandro and one2one. Automobile got dropped because I felt it was becoming more of a lifestyle magazine than a car magazine.

ab348

I have less interest in the exotics than some others do I guess. One of the reasons I gfot tired of the subscriptions was the overemphasis on the latest and greatest from Porsche, Ferrari, BMW and the like. I simply don't care about what Porsche has done to wring another few drops of profit out of the ancient 911 platform, but it seemed in years past when I was a subscriber that every second month there was another version of that car on one of those magazines' covers. That's a big part of the reason I dropped them.

One of the fun things I used to like way back in the late 60s/early 70s was Motor Trend's tests of just average, mundane, everyday cars -- Plymouth Furys, Olds Delta 88s, Datsun 510s, etc. Road Test and Car Life did the same thing back then. Nowadays you might get one in C&D's "Short Takes" section but it isn't the same. M/T lost all credibility decades ago, so I haven't bothered with it in years. Too bad.

ab348

Don't stop me now, I'm on a roll... ;-)

I just wanted to compliment the regulars here. You guys know who you are. A more thoughtful and intelligent group of folks would be hard to find. Good conversation, good exchange of views. I enjoy it here. Thanks!

evandro

I have read no conflicting opinion about car magazines, present and past, with mine. If I failed to mention others that were expressed here, it's because I forgot. It really seems that we are a close pack! ;^)

I just want to add that the best overall car magazine I ever read was the Italian Quattroruote. Articles about car technology, beautiful see-through drawings, average, above average and below average cars tests, sports, etc. Too bad it's about cars in another market...

teo

How's the Intrigue doing?

oldsman01

The Accord they tested was a V6 model, not an I4. I still find it hard to believe it beat the new Altima V6 and the new Camry. The Accordian is not a bad car, but I really don't see what is so special about it. I guess I'm missing something here:) Seriously though, that review was more like a Consumer Reports review than a C&D review. I mean I know it was about family sedans(maybe thats why the Intrigue was cut and the Altima didn't fare as well), but even family sedans can be fun to drive. Who says you can't still enjoy driving once you have a couple of rugrats?

mkco

Is Motor Trend. I'm a long time C&D fan and for decades thought that Motor Trend -- which "never met a car it didn't like" -- really sucked. But in the past year, I've noticed a lot of improvement...there's a lot of "there" there. Check it out.

One of the things that really P.O.'s me about car mags is that they often don't tell you what's wrong with a model until its replacement comes out. For example, I had the first generation Integra -- an '86 -- which the mags just showered with praise. Then, when the second generation came out, they said it improved on the old car's "weak low end torque." Thanks for the info...late!

The one car reviewer I really respect is James Healey in USA Today every Friday. He really tells you what's wrong with every car and isn't afraid to really blast one if needed. Like, he totally torched the new Chysler Sebring convertible. And -- going back a few years -- he said good things about the '98 Intrigue, which of course was absolutely corrrect!

oldsman01

It looks like K&N 33-2086 is the correct filter for the Intrigue. Per the service manual, AC filter 1096C is what fits and using K&Ns cross reference guide yields 33-2059 although they don't list the Intrigue on their vehicle list.

dindak

I think there must be some advertising kickback for C&D from Honda. It's the only explanation for that article. I think the V6 Accord is a very good car, but it should be number 3 or 4 not number 1. I always wonder about the objectivity of some of these writers.