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Anyways, did anyone get the Consumer Reports 2003 auto issue yet? Apparently the '02 Intrigue is the used car to avoid this year. Funny, the '98 model was on the list first, then the '99, and now the '02.
It looks like the worst areas on the '02 model were body integrity and body hardware, followed by suspension and electrical problems.
The '01 model must have been put together pretty well. No other Oldsmobile or Pontiac models have a red checkmark.
-ketch "viva las vegas!"
The ability to put a Regal GS comfortably into the 13's with very little effort is something to consider (or a GTP if you want a little more exterior punch and a lot more interior cheesiness). Or how about that other Oldsmobile, the Aurora? You could probably have a loaded '03 for around $32K. GM does still have some good cars out there. But I agree with you wholeheartedly that Oldsmobile was their best product lineup. I guess you can't sell a car that nobody knows about...
The interesting thing I've found is that there are very few cars of any make that I actually like these days and none so far that excite me. The Mazda 6 has gotten great hype and publicity but if you look at one it disappoints. The body design is nice enough except for the cliche taillights but the interior looks cheap and that silvertone plastic on the dash will grow old quickly. The base model with plastic hubcaps just screams "cheap car". It never even came close to making my short list.
I got all excited recently when I visited GM Canada's web site and saw that Chevy will have a couple of new vehicles for 2004 that actually look good, the Optra and Epica. Then I dug deeper and discovered that they were really Daewoos which have their own set of issues. It's sad; GM just is not competitive any more. Meanwhile the new Malibu looks like it's wearing a set of chaps around the rear quarters. All the GM stylists who knew how to design a good-looking car must have moved on.
GM is offering good deals on the '03 GP right now and it's not particularly bad but I cannot get excited about it and it will be replaced next year anyway. I looked at a Regal and the standard cloth upholstery hit the trifecta: cheap-looking, ugly, and ill-fitted. If this keeps up all GM will be selling in a few years is trucks. I keep waiting for Lutz to have an impact but so far there has been little good coming from them.
Don't feel bad. You've discovered the same thing I have: GM is not really in the car business any more.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
redline / ozznet : I've said it before, don't believe everything you read in CR.
ketch : Vegas is one of my favorite long weekend destinations, I love it.
ab348 : Vibe interior is all GM designed so clearly GM is capable of better. The 03 GP GT can be had for under C$25K which is a very good deal. I think from the ads I saw in the paper that it includes dual-zone climate control and a sun roof. Interior is not great, but it's very functional.
You must live out west. It's plus 4C here in the Toronto area today.
Ketch, the new Maxi isn't much to look at(at least from the pics) and with the price increasing it puts a loaded one in G35/CTS territory. FWD or RWD? thats a no brainer. I do kind of like the Mazda 6(and the fact that I have yet to see one on the roads) but it doesn't offer the level of luxury I prefer. If the dealer could just get the problems fixed, I'd be perfectly happy with my Intrigue as it still is a joy to drive and now that she is clean, she sure is good looking!
oldsman : New GP has a nice interior and looks great from the outside, I just thought the car was a bit cramped. That said, if you have no kids, who cares. Should be available in about a month or two. Impala SS was nice on the outside, but I just don't like the Impala's inside. I was not able to see if the SS has an upgraded interior. Mazda 6 is what GM should model the next Grand Am after.
The Regal GS is a very nice car. It's also bland as dirt and has an "old man" interior - the seats don't look nice and supportive like my Intrigue/Maxima. I don't like the GTPs interior or exterior, and the 04 isn't the quantum leap I hoped for. An Aurora is just too much of a luxo-barge for my tastes, but it is a beautiful car both inside and out.
redline65: "It looks like the worst areas on the '02 model were body integrity and body hardware, followed by suspension and electrical problems."
Which is pure nonsense. How can CR judge the reliability of a used car only one year old? I had zero, nada, zilch problems with my Intrigue, and I wouldn't have sold it to my father if it did. Granted it only had 7800 miles on it, but still...
ab348: "Frankly, GM doesn't deserve our business. The only thing I'm even half-considering from them is the Vibe because at least I can use some of my GM Card dollars on it. And of course it's actually a Toyota. But I expect I will end up buying something else."
If you're coming from an Intrigue (I'm just assuming, your profile doesn't say what you currently drive), you'll be disappointed when you go to test drive a Vibe. It's just not even close to the same level of handling, ride comfort, or grunt. The seating position is really awkward too.
Like I said previously, I think GM is starting to focus on cars more - I'm certain the next Regal will be the Intrigue's true replacement. However, I obviously couldn't wait around to find out. Maybe in 7-8 years, but since Nissan had what I needed now, they got my money.
And I do agree with whoever said the 04 Maxima is kind of nasty. The grill and the weird sloping rear end.. no thanks.
I just got back from Vegas this weekend. That's a place to lose lots of money, so I hope you can keep hold of yours ketch! You should consider getting your windows tinted asap.
We went down in my friend's Pontiac Sunfire. Oh my gosh, what a cheap piece it is. Rattles galore. Reminded me of how badly my Intrigue was assembled.
It is probably safe to say that, with several hundred thousand responses, even for cars with relatively small ownership such as the Intrigue, the database will be substantially larger than any individual's personal experience or that of the typical internet discussion group.
One might argue that people with problems are more likely to respond than those without. That may be true but should be true in all cases, so should not reflect differently on one model vs. another.
My experience with vehicles I have owned is that the problem areas have tracked fairly closely with the CR data. With any luck, my 2000 Intrigue will follow the same pattern and will continue to be relatively trouble free. I have the had ISS problem, migrating door trim, and a tranny rebuild (all under warranty) with the ISS and tranny repairs coming at about 24K. I'm at 40K now.
RE : CR, None of the cars I have had follow what they say. While I have some problems with the way they rank autos especially, they are a good guide. That said, they are no better than any other guide out there.
I don't think you can really compare that car to an Intrigue, but there were some bits about that car that were nasty. I had a whistling noise on the passenger side window, and while troubleshooting it I discovered that the chrome trim around the windows is held on by these cheesy yellow plastic clips. I just thought, "you've GOT to be kidding me". The 'breathing' door panels kind of cracked me up too, that is just classic GM.
Neither of these things really bothered me at all, the Intrigue was my 4th GM and I was used to that kind of stuff from them. All I ask from my cars is that they're reliable and fun to drive, and GM mostly delivered with this car.
Still, after having driven the Maxima for a week now, massive power upgrade aside there are just little touches that I wish GM would steal. Imagine a power window that not only has "one touch" down, but also "one touch" UP. I know it sounds stupid, but I was like a kid at Christmas. I didn't know they MADE power windows like that! The seat is very similar to the Intrigue's, but you can't hear the springs when you sit down. And, there is no chintzy plastic or rough edges.. ANYWHERE. All the controls feel like you could REALLY rag on them and they won't break. The steering wheel controls are completely intuitive and solid-feeling, the Intrigue's were kind of chintzy and tacked-on. The horn actually responds when you press on it. The cupholders are not only useful, but are normally concealed until you press a button and a panel opens up. And, there is an insert that you can remove if you have to use the holders for a 1 liter bottle or something really huge. I cannot tell you how many times I almost exploded a paper cup full of pop all over my console, in both the Intrigue and Alero because to put the car in park basically requires you have nothing in the cup holder. Oh, and the middle storage console is HUGE and lined with a felt-like substance (actually, all the compartments are) so junk isn't rattling around all the time.
I've never owned a Japanese car before, but I'm beginning to understand why they just reamed GM in the market the last 20-30 years or so. I did own a Volkswagen Jetta and it was a nice car, but an electrical nightmare and was the most unreliable vehicle I've ever owned.
But, since I'm basically a "buy American" guy, I'll give 'em another shot next time. I'm not settling for unfinished interiors, though. Stupid design like the unfinished plastic junk everywhere and those stinking cupholders won't cut it anymore.
I too see folks here tint thier windows, but also see as many that are not. My In-laws have been here for a decade and never have tinted thier cars at all, so I might be ok. Plus I have a covered area at work. Of course it's important to protect the paint and interior to guard against the sun's rays (it is this here, not the heat, that will age a car they say). It's only bad in july and August mostly, and alot better than bitter cold, snow and of course the related salt damage.
BTW do not see as many Intrigues here as in Chi-twon where I lived. I'd guess it's since this is a very japanese brand area like Southern California, of which we have many here who relocated. I'd say these folks would never look at an American competitor for imports. Just my guess. Glad though, as my car just got even more unique.
With just a couple trips to the dealer for problems in 2 years and 17K miles (I bought my 2000 used in 2001), the reliability of my Intrigue would rate better than the one which has been back 5 times for flickering headlights, for example.
The CR ratings also take into account the age of the car. The expectation is a car shouldn't need any repairs in the first year of ownership so it doesn't take many 1st year incidents for a vehicle's rating to be below average for the 1st year.
ketch : I didn't loose much last time I was down. I know when to walk away and go watch others loose money. I go to Casino Niagara every once in a while for my gambling these days, the money I save on travel gives me more to gamble. That said, Vegas is the best.
As for the whole buy "American" thing, it doesn't matter so much to me. Every car maker is foreign in my eyes. That said, the big 3 certainly have much bigger investments in Canada and do much more in the way of R&D and using Canadian suppliers. GM offers great value in my mind which is why I have 2 Oldsmobiles. Reliability of both cars has been very good.
I was looking through CR car issue today. Malibu and Impala are both recommended now which is great. What they need to do is upgrade the interior of the Impala and launch the new Malibu trouble free so that they keep the CR rating. Build it and they will come to motto goes. I hope GM can build more good stuff to keep me in the fold as if nothing changes, I will likely get a Mazda 6 as my next sedan. At least Mazda is a Ford sub.
I hated the Impala's interior when it first came out, too many cutlines, etc. Now that I have owned one for almost 2 years it doesn't bother me at all.
That goes for the exterior also. It just grows on you. Very familiar.
One thing the Intigue does better than the Impala is it's greenhouse. very open and spacious.
The Impala has good visibility also but the winshield is raked back more and the rearview mirror blocks my forward vision.
1. Daytime running lights is a big one. Apparantly Canadian Maximas do have them (which we can do by moving the headlamp stalk two clicks). The Max does have the Sentinel system, which is what the "Auto" setting does, but this just turns the headlights on when it's too dark. Since there are no DRLs, I don't find myself using that setting too much.
2. I actually prefer the Max's steering wheel. I think it's just as "beefy" as the Intrigue's, plus it's black. The problem is that my Intrigue interior was beige/tan, and I use black leather gloves which were starting to darken the wheel a bit. Not having the steering wheel controls illuminated was kind of a pain for the first couple days, but the way Nissan set the buttons up negates this. It's easy to tell what the button is by feel.
3. Overall, the Intrigue's cockpit was a bit more "open", I think. I find myself having to sit a bit lower in the Maxima because of the reduced headroom due to the sunroof. Not a big deal, really.
4. Yes, not having the ignition on the dash is a pain as well. That is one feature I REALLY liked about the Alero and Intrigue.. I think my Jetta had this as well. After a week and a half, I'm starting to intuitively put the key in the right spot which is good, but still not as convenient as having it right on the dash.
5. The location of the side view mirror switch is probably the poorest interface design in the entire car. I have to contort my wrist while driving to adjust the mirrors. Thankfully, this is usually a "do once and be done with it" sort of thing.
6. The one thing I DESPISE
6. The one thing I DESPISE about the Maxima are the OEM tires. I realize most OEM tires suck, but those Bridgestone Potenza RE92s are horrible on anything but dry or slightly wet roads. The fact they're 17" doesn't help matters either. I've travelled on snow/slushy/icy roads with them, and the tires just feel kind of greasy. It's slow going, that's for sure. I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the Eagle LSs from the Intrigue.
7. The Maxima doesn't have traction control, but I'm not sure whether I'll miss this or not. Strangely, even though the Bridgestones feel unstable and greasy, I've never really slid in them. It could be that I'm used to the horrible racket the Intrigue made when the trac/ABS kicked in, and the Maxima's ABS is whisper-quiet in comparison.
8. Another thing I miss is the climate control. Nissan makes you get leather and who knows what else to get climate control, and it wasn't worth it to me. To get climate, I would have had to spend another $2000 on the car, to get a bunch of other options I didn't want. In my opinion, though, the climate control is offset by the addition of the 6 CD changer. Moving a little switch to adjust the heat is easier than fumbling through my storage console for a CD, opening it, taking the old one out, and balancing it on my leg while I put the new one in.
That was one thing that irritated me about the Intrigue. I actually went to half a dozen stereo stores PLUS the dealer to see about getting a trunk changer installed (that would work with the stock head unit), and nobody could help. I know the older Intrigues were pre-wired for a changer, but not the newer ones. Gotta love GM's decontenting crusade.
American cars used to have a bid advantage when specing out a car. But that is changing too.
Its coming thursday so I can't wait.
My satisfaction with the Intrigue would be complete when the headlight dimming defect is corrected. We won't hold our breath for that fix.
Thanks in advance.
Go to the NTSA site and check out the Tech Service Bulletins for 2000-2001 Intrigues. Ask for a printout on repairs/warranty work done to the car. Pay special attention to the steering, alignment and dreaded headlight dimming. Good luck!
Besides a lot of imports are built right here is the good 'ol USA or Canada, with domestic built parts.
jgriff, the News & Views board is really the place for those kinds of comments.
dindak, please don't say Honda rules.
I mean what I am saying - there are lots of discussions on the N&V board where jgriff's comments are appropriate and you all are welcome to take that conversation there.
This discussion is about the sedan called the Intrigue and while positive comments are by no means required, blatant brand bashing for whatever reason does not belong here.
By ANY side.
Thank you.
Ok
Jgriff must be bored with his perfect Acura again.
I'm surprised a host still moderates this board, after all the Intrigue is now a collectable.
I didn't sell my Intrigue to my dad and buy a Maxima because of quality reasons, unless I hated my father! Since this is a verboten subject, I'll leave it at that.
My dad is enjoying the Intrigue greatly - he even went so far as to buy a factory spoiler for it on eBay. It is an absolute base GL, with no extra options.. apparantly, we have differing opinions on whether the car needs a spoiler or not. I haven't told him my opinion, BTW. I'm really curious to see if he can do anything about removing the "hump" in the rear deck that houses the current 3rd brake light. He's having a body shop do it, so it should look pretty decent.
I liked the Alero's spoiler, but I never could warm up to the Intrigue's. It just has kind of a "limp" look to it. It was one of those "I can take it or leave it" options, like leather, sunroof, or alloy rims. It wasn't so long ago I was driving a junker '89 Escort Pony whose sole options consisted of auto trans, rear defroster, and AM/FM radio. As long as a car has air and a decent stereo, everything else is fluff.