Oldsmobile Intrigue

sda

Though this might not be exactly an Intrigue topic, I thought you might find this interesting. We are thinking about buying a used mini-van to replace my wife's wonderful Passat. We need the extra room with a toddler and a dog. We have been considering a used 2000 Chrysler Town&Country LXi/Limited or Ford WindstarSEL/Limited. They are both decent vehicles in their own way, but I am suspect about their reliability. Chrysler is known for transmission failures, and Ford, transmission and head gaskets. I must be a glutten for punishment. So part of my research has been pricing extended warranties. One firm I contacted said they rate vehicles in 8 different categories. The smaller the number , the less the premium charged to cover the warranty. 1 least expensive, 8 most expensive (Jaguar, Land Rover). The Ford and Chrysler rate 3. Not too bad. Better yet, the Olds Intrigue is in category 2. Just turned 31000 on my 2000 GL, and all is well. Enjoy!

dindak

If going used, try and find a Oldsmobile van. Should be able to get a good deal, they are real nice inside and you won't worry about the transmission.

redline65

The Ford and Chrysler rate 3. Not too bad. Better yet, the Olds Intrigue is in category 2.

According to this list the Intrigue is class 3. Achieva, Alero, and Cutlass are class 2.

http://www.gmoutlet.com/gmpppriceindex.html

perna

I'd probably choose the Ford, though honestly none of the big 3 make a great minivan. The GMs turn into rattletraps very early on and have *horrible* crash test ratings. My boss has a T&C, while not statistically significant, it's been a nightmare for him (most recently, the A/C died). That, and I personally hate all things Chrysler.

My personal choice for a minivan would be either the new '04 Nissan Quest, or Mazda MPV.

dindak

Our neighbor has a Chev Venture and it's been great. It's about 2 years old and it has not rattles at all (I borrowed it 2 weeks ago). My sister on the other hand has a Ford Windstar SEL (loaded) and it rattles and the brakes are very mushy. New Mazda van looks nice, the old ones are a bit small from what I remember. I also rented a Caravan and liked it alot though I'm not sure where the reliability is on them is.

oldsman01

I hopefully won't be in the minivan market anytime soon, but if I were the Chrysler Town & Country would be my first pick. Mopar minis are not perfect, but they are pretty good vans. The GM minivans are okay, but they lack the refinement and additional features of the Chrysler minis. The Windstar has never rated well since the 99 redesign and earlier models had head gasket problems. If you can afford one, Id look for an 01 Chrysler minivan as they were redesigned for 01 and vastly improved.

oldsman01

We just recently got a Carmax here and I've seen their ads that they will buy your car. If they would give me within $500 of what I owe, I think I'd let them have it. I've always been curious how their "buying your car" process works. The Intrigue goes under the knife Monday and if she still comes back with problems, then I'll likely start looking for a replacement. While I would have wanted to wait another year or so on buying a new car, I would be willing to go ahead now given the excellent deals and interest rates that are currently being offered.

TSchramm

If you're seriously considering the Ford Windstar, wait until '04. Ford is replacing the Windstar with the "Freestar" (and adding a Mercury Monterey version) with new engine, 5-speed transmission, new interior, new suspension, power fold-flat 3rd seat ala Honda Odyssey, etc. Seem to be making a renewed effort to reclaim some market share they have lost in the minivan market. Ford is still tops in 5-star ratings for crashworthiness, along with Honda. Daimler and GM both trail in the crash test results. After all, isn't a minivan all about family transport and safety? Certainly not performance and style!

jr45

Oldsman, the Carmax I've dealt will look over your car and print out an offer that is good for something like 7 days and so many miles. It's take it or leave it because they won't negotiate. If the offer is short of the payoff, you bring them a cashier's check to cover the difference, and they pay off you loan and handle the title work for you.

redline65

Carmax only wanted to give me $1600 for my '96 Saturn last year. I sold it myself and got $2600 for it. They aren't much better than trade-in at a dealership, which offered me $1500. The used car market is flooded right now, so it's hard to get much for your car. IMO, it's worth the time and effort to sell it yourself.

One other thing about my Carmax experience, they pulled one of my spark plugs and broke my plug wire. I couldn't prove they did it of course, I had to buy another plug wire set. If you take your car to them make sure you check your plug wires before you drive the car off the lot.

TSchramm

I've also heard Carmax offers no advantage over going to any other dealership when it comes to trying to sell your car. Carmax/dealerships will always give you lower offer than you could get selling yourself. Carmax has no magic formula realtive to your average GM dealership, which is buy it low and sell it high, preferrably with some outrageous financing deal.

Carmax also can request a service record from a dealer based on VIN number for a fee. They may do that. More and more used car buyers are taking advantage of the technology availably to see whther or not they are buying someone else's problem.

oldsman01

I won't argue that you'll likely get the best price if you sell the car yourself, my problem is I'm afraid I'll have a hard time selling the car due to it's problems. Physically, the car is in excellent shape and is one owner and if no one asks for the service records then I'm okay, but if they do then they will either low ball me or walk. Hey, I'd do the same thing if I were buying a used car from someone. If the problems don't get corrected after this next service visit though, then I may start looking at my legal options.

jr45

I agree that your're always better off if you can do a private sale. I sold a '94 Taurus and a '97 Ford Ranger to Carmax only after advertising them and trying to sell them privately. No one wanted to buy the Taurus whatsoever, and few were interested in the Ranger because it had the 4 cyl. engine rather the 6 cyl. On the other hand, I sold a Toyota pickup onetime for $4500 cash to the first caller. All depends on how desirable the vehicle is.

sda

Thanks for all your input. Though I'm not keen on leases, we leased an 03 Honda (sorry, Dindak) Odessey EX-L for 36 months. Consumer Reports gives it thumbs up, and it ranks high in safety, and is reasonable in reliability. I have now sold two cars to CarMax. In 2002 I sold my 98 Catera to them. CarMax offered $1400 more than what two other dealerships had offered. We just sold my wife's '99 Passat GLS 1.8T/5speed with 39500 miles to them. They offered $10800 for it. Honda offered $7500! $3300 difference. I couldn't believe it. Didn't want the hassle to sell it myself. Both experiences with CarMax has been great. So Oldsman 01, CarMax is a good efficient alternative to selling the car yourself. You may not get what you would if you had sold the car yourself, but I believe you will still do better than if you trade it for another car. Hard to believe that my wife's '99 Passat that listed new for$23140 (we paid less), is worth so much more than my '00 Intrigue GL that listed for $26500 (though I bought it used in 4/02 for $12900)! Let us know the results of your next service visit. I trust they will finally get it right.

dindak

sda : The Honda Oydessey is a good choice, I just think it's over priced. Our friends have one and seem happy with it. If I were going Japanese van, I would have got a Senna as they are clearing out the 03s right now with 0% financing to boot. Why did you lease this one?

oldsman : Can't believe the troubles you have. Is it still mainly the transmission? Why won't they just replace it?

b4z

The last Aurora was produced Friday.
It was a "Final 500" car.

My dealer has one. Good looking car.

b4z

Anybody kinow of a TSB on the intrigue's tranny regarding rough shifting or vibrations at certain speeds?
Such as line pressure problems or torque convertor issues that may cause a vibration in the 40-50 mph speed range.

TSchramm

On the contrary, the Odyssey is a relatively great deal. I looked at a loaded Odyssey EX and a Chrysler Grand T&C with the same equipment.

The Honda was right at 29K, every dealer would only offer $1K off msrp. The same equipment on the Chrysler (leather, power doors, etc) put it at $33K, and between rebates (which Honda never seems to need to offer) and the discount off of MSRP, the price came down to 28K. Same as the Honda.

And the Odyssey will be worth far more in three years compared to the Chrysler.

dindak

I guess compared with high end domestics it's not much more but add in incentives and it's a whole other ball game. I know the T&C has huge cash back on it. You will pay close to list on the Honda. If I was to buy a van it would be a more basic model though. I'd soon spend the extra dough on something else like a Harley.

sda

Dindak, I hear you. I looked at used Chrysler Town&Country(s) and many others. We wanted a fairly deluxe ride and felt that safety and reliability are paramount in a van. I really like the Olds Silohoutte Premiere, but the offset crash test is just awful on that van. Resale values on all domestic vans is poor. Mini-vans certainly don't drive as well as the Intrigue or Passat that we just sold. What we were finding was vans even with low miles were well used and beat up. The interiors stunk (literally). With Honda's resale value being so strong, I thought it might be a good candidate to lease. The higher the residual value equates to a better lease/and lower payments. We were able to lease the Odessey for less per month than a purchase of a used T&C and didn't have to pay extra for an extended warranty or other maintenance that might come up in an older vehicle. In 36 months, we'll turn in the keys or purchase it. For now it makes sense as our payments went down $75/mo. Long term, it might not be as good a deal, but we do have a new vehicle to drive and my wife loves it. The fact that the wife loves it might be more important than the financial side of it!!

dindak

Leasing is more expensive, but if you plan to only keep it for 3 years it makes sense. Once the Intrigue is paid off (in about 22 months) I will likely be looking at Harley's as I have always wanted a bike. We will need a van/SUV/wagon at some point but I will go lower end. The Honda vans are nice, but it's way more than I want to spend. Other things in like I want more. ;-)

dindak

Wish I had the money to get one..

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/olds29_20030329.htm

regfootball

the last of the ORIGINAL Auroras would've been the one to get.

racer_x_9

The Silhouette test was done on a 1997 Pontiac TransSport. The car is 14 inches shorter than the current Silhouette. Although they are similar it is not an Apples to Apples comparison. In addition current Silhouettes have side air bags not available in 97.

IIHS also track real world data from crashes. Guess where the Silhouette rates for 1999-2001?
Safest on the list.

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_wagon.htm

redline65

I was just reading an article about the new 3.6L V6 the CTS is getting in June and it reminded me a lot of the introduction of the Intrigue. Cadillac launched the CTS with an underwhelming engine, and now it's getting the one it deserves.

Seems kind of strange that they would develop a new 3.6L V6 when they just scrapped a 3.5L V6 that only saw about 4 years of production. Of course the new V6 has 255 bhp and 252 lb. ft. of torque. The most powerful variant of the engine will exceed 370 bhp and 350 lb. ft. of torque. I'm assuming this one will show up in the Cadillac "V" Series.

viper0074

Good morning.

Anyone have any idea how much off MSRP new leftover 2002 Intrigues are selling for?

I usually go to Carsdirect.com and Edmunds for my pricing info, but they only have 2003 model info.

Thanks,

Peter

redline65

Why don't you use the Edmunds TMV tool for a used 2002 Intrigue, and plug in 50 miles or so, for a vehicle in outstanding condition. Take the Dealer retail number and work from there.

viper0074

I looked the used car section of Edmunds and, as I suspected, the figures were between 12-14,000 for a 2002 Intrigue with 10 miles that is in great shape.

I doubt that I can get that kind of price at a dealer. Then again, they're practically giving these cars away.

Peter

b4z

for those of you who love the Shortstar here is the heir apparent.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0304/01/insider-124694.htm

dindak

The 3.6 looks like it's going to be a sweetheart of a motor. I'm tempted to buy a Rendezvous (which will get the motor also as an option) next year. I wish I could afford a CTS, but that's not in the cards for a few more years.

rjs200240

One key difference in the new "high-feature" V6's and the Intrigue's 3.5 is the V angle. The new motors are 60-degree engines while the Intrigue's 3.5 is a 90-degree motor. The 90-degree's made it not fit a lot of apps. I think that's the main reason the Rendezvous got that sucky 3400 instead of at least a 3800, and better yet a 3.5.

I think the 370hp variant will be via turbocharging.

regfootball

looks like the new 3.6 is SWWWWEEEETTTT.

oldsman01

I have to agree with Regfootball, the last of the previous generation Aurora would be the one to get. To think that I was looking for a low mileage 98 or 99 Aurora when I bought my Intrigue and the only reason I didn't get one was I couldn't locate one in a color I liked(they all seemed to be white). When I took the Intrigue in for service Monday a late 90s Aurora also pulled into the bay and boy did it still look sharp. And the smooth purring of that V8 sounded so much more refined than the V6 in my Intrigue(which sounds pretty sweet at idle itself). I'm sure the new Auroras are more dynamically superior to the heavy old model, but the original just has a stance that the new ones do not. Anyway, I've been tempted by a new Aurora if I could get a killer deal, but I think that at this point I've owned my last new Olds. This one has just been a major disappointment. BTW, it is still in the shop. Took it in Monday and haven't heard anything yet. Keep in mind, it took over 2 weeks just to get the power steering hose replaced several months back and I had a list of 5 items to be checked this time, so who knows how long they will have it.

sda, glad your wife loves the minivan. There must be something about women and vans as my ex-girlfried liked minivans and we had no children or any need/desire for a van!

evandro

Just closed a deal on a '00 Intrigue GL, with leather and sunroof and 37000mls. It's got the 3.05 axle, so it probably doesn't have PCS. Yet, the vehicle build sheet mentions "Computer Sel Susp" with codes 6JT, 7JT, 8KS and 9KS. Any idea what this means?

Right now it's being inspected by a mechanic.

TIA

oldsman01

I'm not sure what "computer selected suspension" means as no Intrigue was available with adjustable suspension. I believe JL5 is the RPO code for PCS, but if yours has the 3.05 axle ratio then it doubtfully has PCS. Look for the "PCS" light in the instrument cluster to come on when you start the car up. It is at the base of the speedometer.

evandro

Nope, no JL5. :-(

BTW, its shoes are still Eagle LS, about half-way though. Is it me or those tires are darn noisy?

If not, Olds might also have done a better job insulating the rolling noise, for the powertrain is very quiet.

oldsman01

Those tires are noisy as are the RS-As on my Intrigue. As they wear down they get worse.

evandro

My Bonneville wears Eagle RS-A and it's pretty quiet... I'm asking because I'm afraid it might be bad wheel bearings.

dindak

I find the Goodyears to be excellent tires. Don't find them noisy at all and they are great in the snow.

regfootball

I have z rated rs-a's on my SHO and they are LOUD. They are almost bare now and they are LOUDER. Surprisingly, they have remained decent in snow through the life of the vehicle. Must be the sipelike tread.

Goodyears have always worn quickly too. The only goodyears I had that were quiet were my eagle aquatreads on my 89 SHO but those only lasted 30k miles.

Goodyears = loud, expensive, wear quick. Otherwise really good tires.

For my money next time I will try something quieter. and maybe cheaper if i can.

dindak

Ran almost the full 120K kms on my Eagle GAs on my old car. The Eagles on my Intrigue are on track to do the same. Nothing wrong with them and they are good in the ice/snow which we got blasted with today. Yuk!

oldsman01

I've got 28K on my Intrigue and the RS-As are almost down to the wear bars. I noticed the tires howl more in corners and do not have the grip they used to. They still do good in wet weather, although not as good as when they were new. I've had the tires rotated routinely as well. Reg is right on this one, good tires but noisy, expensive and short lived.

On to my sick car, she will be spending the weekend in the shop as I called today and they are awaiting a new transmission. I was shocked, they are going to finally replace the transmission. Service advisor said they had contacted GM and GM authorized the replacement. So maybe there is hope, although I've already gotten new car fever and am ready for something else.

regfootball

I hear Pilot Sport All Seasons from Michelin are the best perf. all season right now. Spendy though.Not much more spendy than goodyears though. I had Yokohamas on my 89 SHO i replaced the Eagle Aquatreds with and they were good too and I saved a lot of jing that way. I would buy yokohamas again. I would get Eagle Aquatreds too, even with the low shelf life. My BIL had BF Goodrich Comp TA's (or touring ta's) on his 93 SHO and they were really good and lots cheaper than his Goodyears.

The RS-A is a pretty decent tire overall but nothing to write a letter to mom about. Beats driving on FIRESTONES.

codog2

The Service Engine Soon light has come on my 98' Intrigue (131k miles). I took it to Autozone where they told me the code was "P440 Evaporative Emissions Control System Malfunction"

Does anybody know what this could be & if there is anything I can check out myself?

Thanks

b4z

i believe you are the mileage king on this board!

evandro

I took my Intrigue to a brake shop for a free brake inspection and I was told that there were scuff marks on the rear tires due to misalignment that could explain the noise. Even though the car didn't pull to either side, it might be a vertical misalignment.

Anyway, I had the wheels aligned this morning and the noise is far lower now. The tires are still on the noisy side, but it sounds normal to me now.

lmacmil

Do a google search on "Evaporative Emissions Control System." Could be as simple as a loose gas cap or could be the cannister. If Autozone didn't reset the computer, disconnect the battery for 15-20 minutes to clear the code. The wait to see how long before it comes on again. If it comes on soon, then it's probably a legitimate problem although if the car isn't running rough, probably no harm other than increased emissions.

moonshadow

Some info that i have that i cut and pasted. Of coarse, to directand intelligent for my words.hehe

Gasoline evaporates quite easily. In the past these evaporative emissions were vented into the atmosphere. 20% of all HC emissions from the automobile are from the gas tank. In 1970 legislation was passed, prohibiting venting of gas tank fumes into the atmosphere. An evaporative control system was developed to eliminate this source of pollution. The function of the fuel evaporative control system is to trap and store evaporative emissions from the gas tank and carburetor. A charcoal canister is used to trap the fuel vapors. The fuel vapors adhere to the charcoal, until the engine is started, and engine vacuum can be used to draw the vapors into the engine, so that they can be burned along with the fuel/air mixture. This system requires the use of a sealed gas tank filler cap. This cap is so important to the operation of the system, that a test of the cap is now being integrated into many state emission inspection programs. Pre-1970 cars released fuel vapors into the atmosphere through the use of a vented gas cap. Today with the use of sealed caps, redesigned gas tanks are used. The tank has to have the space for the vapors to collect so that they can then be vented to the charcoal canister. A purge valve is used to control the vapor flow into the engine. The purge valve is operated by engine vacuum. One common problem with this system is that the purge valve goes bad and engine vacuum draws fuel directly into the intake system. This enriches the fuel mixture and will foul the spark plugs. Most charcoal canisters have a filter that should be replaced periodically. This system should be checked when fuel mileage drops.

My words now:

Have also had rusted gas filler tube and or leaky tank. Check the vent line at the tank and also up near the canister for a crack or broken hose.
First as suggested, the cap must be tight.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

evandro

Did you guys find any repair manual for the Intrigue, such as Haynes or Chilton?

I wasn't able to find one and am actually considering shelling $120 for the factory service manual, but I'm afraid that it doesn't provide basic instructions for a weekend mechanic and just assumes them...

TIA

shanian

Explain this wheel bearing noise to please.
My 00 with about 60K miles has developed a noise around 40 mph and up. It is a kind of flapping rhythic sound, that gets worse at higher speeds. But no check engine light, and revving up is smooth. Infact got almost 30 mpg a couple of weeks back on a 360 mile trip along with a reminder to contribute to the local law enforcement duties.
I am not sure if it is exhause related, tire related or as you say wheel bearings.
Almost new Dunlop Sport A2's since 50K miles.
Turning up the volume is no longer working.